@MormonDem"rhetorical gymnastics"? I gave you the quote.
It is you that seeks to assign one meaning when another was clearly
given...context my friend. You also make the assumption that Ryan opposes any
bail-outs. Not true...he opposed the bail-outs as they were ultimately
administered. He has made that very clear not only in his words but also his
actions. You seem to want to paint him in your image of an anti-everything that
Pres. Obama has done. There's where your criticisms fail.I
never defended Ryan in the vein of not cutting Medicare...just his motivation
for doing so. And...Where in my post did I criticize Pres. Obama for the cuts?
I said there was a difference. I believe Ryan has the better plan...debate for
another day."disingenuous on #4" ???? You would have to live
on a different planet to not see that the Republicans rejected higher taxes and
the democrats rejected domestic entitlement cuts. I stand by the idea that both
parties are to blame.Your view that "GOP obstruction"
completely absolves the democratic party of any responsibility? That's
Type in my last paragraph: The dem majority was NOT a supermajority, and thus
not immune to GOP obstruction.
Grundle:You really have to do some pretty shameful rhetorical
gymnastics to claim that Ryan wasn't blaming Obama for the plant being
closed. And it's doubly hypocritical, because even if, as you claim, Ryan
was simply saying that Obama's govt-intervention approach doesn't work
to prop up flailing companies--why did Ryan lobby the Auto Czar for govt
assistance to keep the plant open?And yes, Ryan proposed his own
debt reduction plan -- which included the same $716 billion in cuts that he
criticized Obama for. And you're contradicting yourself if you're
defending Ryan's criticism--because if Obama is putting that $716 billion
somewhere else, he's not "cutting" it from Medicare, is he? On the
other hand, you yourself just admitted that cutting $716 billion from Medicare
is precisely what Ryan is proposing--while criticizing Obama for it.And you're being disingenuous on #4 as well. Your #4b lumps cutting
spending with raising revenue -- and only one party refused to consider raising
revenue, not, as you say, "both." And of course, #4c is disingenuous
because the dem majority was a supermajority, and thus not immune to GOP
@MormonDem cont...25.48% of Americans are on some type of
government support (a huge increase over the last four years) and you are
talking about a private company contracting with the government? Sounds like
more success sour grapes to me...Who do you think does all the road work here in
Utah? Yep...Private contractors."My goodness, when Fox News
even calls your RNC speech "deceptive," you know you've got an
honestly problem."Who actually made that comment? oh...a
liberal Fox News contributor and President Obama supporter. What did you think
she would say? Just listen to the conservative commentators on all the other
networks speak when the Democratic convention comes around.What....?
Can't find one of those? Try Fox...They have em.
@UtahBlueDevil cont...4.This is the statement from S&P:"We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the
prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related
fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the
growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an
agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and will
remain a contentious and fitful process. We also believe that the fiscal
consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration agreed to this week
falls short of the amount that we believe is necessary to stabilize the general
government debt burden by the middle of the decade. Our lowering of
the rating was prompted by our view on the rising public debt burden and our
perception of greater policymaking uncertainty, consistent with our
criteria…"4 points they made:a. debt ceiling not
being raised - Republican obstructionb. cut spending(and especially
entitlements) and raise revenue - Both parties to blamec. Fell short of
the amount that S&P believed was necessary - Who was in the majority?
Demsd. Debt burden is getting too big - Both parties to blame
@MormonDem1."A lot of guys I went to high school with
worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said:
“I believe that if our government is there to support you … this
plant will be here for another hundred years.” That’s what he said
in 2008.Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another
year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so
many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in
sight."This is exactly what Paul Ryan said. He did not blame
President Obama for the closure, he was making a point about the
President's failed policies. The President was campaigning in 2008 on
saving the plant. He didn’t, and it closed for good in 2009.2.The difference between Ryan's rejection and President
Obama's rejection is that Ryan then proposed his own plan.3.There is a difference between cutting $716 billion to fund $1.9 trillion in
new health spending, asObamacare did, and CuttingMedicare To Shore up the
solvency of the Medicare program_itself
Let's enumerate the deceptions and outright falsehoods in Ryan's
speech:1) He blamed Obama for a GM plant that closed in Wisconsin,
even though the plant closed before Obama took office. (And Ryan even sought
government funds to try to keep it open.)2) He criticized Obama for
rejecting Simpson-Bowles. Guess who else voted against Simpson-Bowles? Paul
Ryan.3) He criticized Obama's $716 billion reductions in
Medicaid spending, even though Ryan's own budget contained the exact same
cuts.4) He blamed Obama for the S&P credit downgrade, even
though the downgrade report specifically identified the GOP's refusal to
consider tax reform one of the country's primary fiscal risks.5) He criticized government spending, even though the Ryan family's
fortune came primarily from government contracts to build highways.My goodness, when Fox News even calls your RNC speech "deceptive," you
know you've got an honestly problem.
HAPPY VALLEY since you personnaly addressed my DN comment - have you happened to
notice that the Ryan 'lie' rheteric has now been a bit soften to
'fudge?' Perhaps the 'fudge' will eventually become,
'well Ryan told the truth..but....' I would respect you if you
would address your remarks to Deseret news article comments and not to those who
have ideas and thoughts differing from your own.
1st it's "The Government can't creat jobs"the, It's "Elect me into Government, I can create jobs"The GOP hypocracy is absolutely astounding!
Joan, please enlighten us with which "lies" were really the truth, since
you're good at attacking the messenger (am radio trick #1) but you
didn't address his speech and the many lies he told.What
compromise are talking about when he changed his plans to get one democrat on
board and then secretly changed it back before presenting it? Yep, that's
Sally Kohn the other 'fair and balanced Fox news' is an avowed
democrat and wants Obama to be re-elected sounded the liberal march to drown out
all the Ryan's national Republicn conconvention speach with accusing
sonnets of lies, lies lies. Which was re-echoed by Times, Washington Post
,liberal stalwarts etc, etc. Ryan has been a stalwart challenging Pres
Obama's liberal policies - and has used his statesmanchip to compromise
where ever he possibly could and stand firm on issues where he in good concience
could not. And as far as untruths are nationaly declared by the Demo's -
where has there been a correspoonding Kohn article?
‘Paul Ryan says GOP ticket will create jobs’===========
Notice how they never tell you - WHERE?For the past 12
years it's all been in Communist Red China.
Ok....imagine my disappointment to get this mornings fact check on Ryan's
speech. I was so wanting to like this guy, only to find he lied with the best
of them. Conservatives, close your ears, because I know you don't want to
know this.Biggest was the whole medicare "cuts"... where
Ryan claims they were the result of lower services levels, when in fact they are
the result in lowered administration fees. The many that wants to lower cost,
now claims that money should not be reduced from medicare's budget. How do
you have it both ways... you find savings... you cut the budget. Second was his claim that Obama promised to keep a GM plant open in his home
state... only problem is that plant closed before Obama was ever elected.The issue here is there are enough differences in policy that you should
be able to run on that, not trying differentiate view extortions and lies. We
as a society need to stop giving a pass to those that lie.... on either side of
the isle. It has become win at any cost, and the current cost is honesty and
integrity.I had hope...
Great speech. But empty and shameless.Paul Ryan accused President Obama of
taking $716 billion out of Medicare, the fact is that that amount was savings in
Medicare reimbursement rates (which, incidentally, save Medicare recipients
out-of-pocket costs, too) and Ryan himself embraced these savings in his budget
planRyan didn’t mention his numerous votes to raise spending
and balloon the deficit when George W. Bush was president.Ryan
didn’t mention his previous plan to hand over Social Security to Wall
Street.Ryan didn’t mention how his budget would eviscerate
programs that help the poor and raise taxes on 95% of Americans in order to cut
taxes for millionaires and billionaires even further and increase — yes,
increase —the deficit.
Fox News called Ryan's speech "Deceiving."Sally Kohn of
Fox News wrote: Paul Ryan’s speech in 3 words: dazzling, deceiving and
distracting.On "deceiving" Kohn wrote:... to anyone
paying the slightest bit of attention to facts, Ryan’s speech was an
apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies
and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech. On this measure,
while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold.
Corporate profits are already at all-time highs. What incentive do they have to
take on more help? Government can increase employment only by being the
employer of last resort (which Obama should have realized).
@GoBigBlue.re: Blame.You know, When Governor Christie
said it was not important to talk about 'how we got here,' but rather,
'what we are going to do about it' I laughed. Of course the GOP
doesn't want to talk about 'how' we got where we are because Bill
Clinton and G.W. Bush are responsible for the massive de-regulations which
allowed insurance companies and banks to gamble with our money in the stock
markets, and they can't blame the Democrats without highlighting their role
in this recession.It's no secret around here I am not a fan of
the GOP, but I have to tell you when you want to talk about vacation time, your
finger might be pointed at the wrong president. President Obama has taken 61
days of vacation in his 31 months. By that same mark, President G.W. Bush had
taken 180 days of vacation. In all, G.W. Bush spent 32% of his time on
vacation.But I agree with you on this: I want to see Ryan and Biden
debate. It's going to be a lot of fun. Ryan is sharp, and Biden is a
little bit crazy.
@justme001Yes. The jobs will be in America. However, in the minds
of liberals they won't count as jobs because they might be non-union jobs.
Are you okay with non-union jobs?
Here is my issue. Oh all the candidates the one I like the best is Ryan, not
because I agree with his politics, but because I know what his politics are. So
in some ways, I like the devil I know better than the devil I don't
know.This convention has been in large part a huge waste of time.
No one was actually stating a platform other than we hate Obama and America is
great. Specifics at any level are hugely lacking. It feels more like a high
school pep rally where they are chanting their high school is better then their
cross town rival, when the reality is they just aren't all that much
different. I am assuming the Democratic convention will be equally wasteful.But of the four on the ticket, we know Ryan's politics. We know
Obama is a left leaning pragmatic that can be hawkish when need be. Biden, eh.
Romney is still not clear. This week Romney is anti China - while at Bain, he
sent US jobs there. Abortion, gun control positions have morphed. Romney is
hard to know because he has contradicted himself often.Ryan is the
clear winner here.
Democrats claim to care about poor people. That’s obviously true because
they create more poor people every day as evidenced by the all time high number
of food stamp recipients, the rapid increase in those living below the poverty
line, unemployment that is edging up, again, and the skyrocketing energy and
food prices! Yes, Democrats love poor people! What we need is less poor people
and more rich people in America! Romney and Ryan will make that”
fundamental change in America” before its too late!
@justme001 FYI Obama has supported and sent more jobs over seas than
Romney did, by a huge amount. Just look at General Electric. They paid no
federal taxes last year. More of their employees are out of this country than
in it. They kept their profits out of this country to avoid paying taxes. They
received subsidies and credits so they didn't pay any taxes. Guess who is
the best friend of their CEO and who has extolled their company as a model
company? B.O.This is to say nothing about the fact that Obama
promised to bring unemployment under 8% during his first term. He has said if
he is unable to do this, he should be a one term President. Well.... let's
make him honor those words, unlike all of the other promises he has broken.If you need multiple jobs to pay your mortgage, get a cheaper house. It
is better than having me pay your mortgage.
@Go Big Blue. Less blame? Republicans blame Democrats and vice verse. If Mitt
Romney does win and the economy is still horrible will republicans take
responsibility or will they blame democrats?
Yup, you'll have plenty of jobs paying $3.55 and hour to go along with your
tax increases, and the 1% will have more parties on yachts registered in the
Cayman Islands tax free, woohoo.
Great speech. Less blame more action. Less golf and vacation more focus on
building the economy. I seriously can not wait to see Ryan square
off with Biden.
@worf: However, according to Ryan, both he and Mitt have already failed, unless
the unemployment rate drops to zero. From Ryan's mouth: If you feel
passed over (unemployed), you have not failed; your leaders have failed you.He said it, not me.
justme001,Jobs from the Canadian pipeline, and drilling.Lowering corporate taxes, and regulations will bring American companies back
to our country.You need to do some homework, and research, before
blindly following the liberal rhetoric. Ridding ourselves of EPA isn't
going to destroy the world anymore than a volcano or natural forest fires would.
I'm worried those jobs are going to be done by Americans. Unfortunately,
they will be in Iran.
What type of jobs? Are they in this country and do I need multiple ones to pay
my mortgage? Since his party wants to get rid of the EPA will my grandkids be
able to breath while they look for jobs?
What kind of jobs? Are they in this country by any chance?
is there any contrast between him and scrappy joe? pleasssssse. joe will have
his clock cleaned by ryan
Great speech.Very American!