"Odd" was a polite way of saying "based on a transparently obvious
misreading" in the first instance, and "absurdly illogical" in the
RE: Anti-theists can't erase Christianity.Christian Churches in
the Former Soviet Union. Russian Orthodox, 50,000,000 ,Roman Catholic
5,500,000 Eastern-rite Catholic 5,000,000 ,Armenian Apostolic 3,000,000
,Georgian Orthodox* 2,000,000. Protestant Evangelical Christians-Baptists,
Lutherans, Hungarian Reformed, Seventh-Day Adventists, Mennonites , Methodists
. Total Protestants 2,960,000. One essential that separates Christians
churches from non-Christian is the Tri-une God. The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints, which now claims about 20,000 members. The Jehovah
witnesses,Non-Trinitarian as well.
Now there is a persuasive argument: "Your comments are odd."The incisiveness and rigorous logic of such a position speaks for itself.
It certainly seems odd to claim that Peterson and Hamblin are "playing the
persecution card" and trying to set themselves up as "victims" when
all that they've done is to accurately summarize what the Soviet state did
to religious believers. But it's equally odd to maintain that atheism had
nothing at all to do with the fierce and very precise targeting, for torture and
death, of theists, specifically, by officially and vocally atheistic regimes.
Most are very aware of 20th century abuses by the totalitarian regimes of Lenin
and Stalin, who used their propaganda, military power and control to destroy
millions of lives. And, there is no denying that these men were atheists. But
why resort to weighing human depravity as is often done in these debates, when
you surely understand that atheism was not the primary mover; it was about power
and control. No belief system comes away unscathed when such atrocities are
committed. Nazi Germany is an example. People can and do live
perfectly happy, moral and productive lives without God. This is not militant
anti-theism, just a willingness to live life without the belief in an
intervening deity. I don't see anything sinister about that. Dr.
Peterson, you've been to Scandinavian countries. How are they doing with
less and less religion? Ranking high on the world's happiness scale offers
a clue, but you knew that already.
"Any informed person of christian doctrine knows that those who are true
disciples and truly live the teachings and morals of Christ, those who truly
follow the gospel of Christ, would never do any of those things.The
same can said for Judaism and buddahism and most religions."The
same can be said about MOST Non-religious people.I would bet that
Atheists do not "murder, torture, and enslave men" at any greater
intervals than the religious. And very possibly less so.
"All the violence, political posturing, destruction, etc. follows from
that."The "that" the poster is referring to is
"religion". I am perhaps too literal. But the word "All" means
100 percent to me. Is that the posters meaning of "all" when applied to
"violence, political posturing, destruction..."?? Non-sense if that is
his or her message.As an individual, did Ted Bundy practice violence
and destruction because of religion? He and many thousands of others in the
history of this world had other terrible issues.As groups of people
doing evil deeds, how does religion motivate the thousands of murderers and
rapists in the eastern regions of the Congo in central Africa? I think money
and minerals have a far bigger role than religion. The eastern Congo is the
rape capital of this planet in the year 2012.
Were is this nation on anti-theists threatening everyone? I say off with thier
heads!Now seriously, there is no war on religion. There are however
lots of people that are tired of wars and arguments about religion. Agree on freedom of religion - including atheism.Can't agree
on a type of prayer in school. Everybody seems to agree on a moment of silence.
Stick with that.
"Militant anti-theists"...?To whom are these authors
referring?More fictitious enemies so they can play the persecution
card?More straw men arguments?We should have expected as
much.The biggest problem with religion is that it condemns,
ostracizes, and persecutes those who cannot "see" the "New
Clothes" allegedly belonging to the Emperor of the Universe. All the
violence, political posturing, destruction, etc. follows from that.As soon as believers admit and live as if atheists are just as "good"
and "worthy" as any believer, then there is no problem with religion...
other than it is a bunch of false stories.
Re: thetruth, Thank you for your insights. It is confusing why there is so
much evil and destruction in the world; especially from a Mormon prespective
point of view that man is born into this world as good and being good, it is
amazing how in such a short life time he can become so bad, but religion and
politics accounts for most of it. Or perhaps it is because the Devil rules, but
if so religion and politics are his effective tools. So what is the answer.
RE: skepticThe scriptures say there is opposition in ALL things.It appears, any belief system, or NON-belief system including atheism,
can be twisted and used to murder, torture, and enslave men.Any
informed person of christian doctrine knows that those who are true disciples
and truly live the teachings and morals of Christ, those who truly follow the
gospel of Christ, would never do any of those things.The same can
said for Judaism and buddahism and most religions.OR are you saying
it is okay the Judge the whole by few bad or extreme individuals?But
why continue to ignore the damage of done by the non-religious?This
article could have mentioned the millions murdered and property taken in
russia, to the gulags of sibera, to the mass starvation of million in
lithuania,it could have mentioned the millions murdered tortured
and imprisoned in china, cambodia, and cuba,or the athiest-based
revolution in france because a few were greedy for power and wealth that others
had. or nazi germany or mussolini's italy, or the
many other dictators and totalitarian regimes that have hurt many, that have nothing to do with religion.
This article is a fine essay on the war against all religion in the former
Soviet Union. However, it contains one major error of fact. Only one word needs
to be changed in this paragraph."All of this dramatically
changed with the Russian Revolution in 1917. The original broadly based
revolution was swiftly co-opted by Lenin and the Marxists, who promised
liberation not only from the feudal tyranny of the czars but from the spiritual
bondage of Christianity."That wrong word is "Marxists".
BOLSHEVIKS would have been correct. Bolsheviks were the tiny minority of
revolutionaries who stole the Russian Revolution of 1917. Bolsheviks were
Marxist-Leninist. "The original broadly based revolution"
contained a great variety of people and organizations. There are perhaps as
many varieties of Marxists as there are varieties of breads or soups. Many
Marxists are very anti-Leninist. An example would be Willy Brandt of Germany.
He was mayor of West Berlin and Chancellor of West Germany. The Leninist
version of Marxism produced the Soviet Union and 74 years of tragedy.
It seems spirituality, dreams and superstition are ingrained as part of
man's existence in a meaningful way, but it is the blatherskites that twist
it into commercial religions that enslave man into stupidity and corruption.