I suspect what he may not want to have to spell out is his contributions to
other aspects of the Church. There may be some large ones that he gave with the
intention of keeping them below the radar. Thus he would not want to make his
tax returns public. This makes sense to me.
To me this is a valid reason to not dosclose tax returns. I personally think we
expect candidates to expose themselves too much to the public eye. We focus on
things that have no real relevancy.
Romney's father tithed, but had no similar reluctance. Why should his son?!
This is a pathetic excuse to keep the American public in the dark
about tax rates, sources of income, use of tax shelters and how much money he
had stashed overseas. We already know he gave 10% perhaps more...or maybe there
was money he didn't tithe on and that is the problem!
re:county momRecommendations:#1 Don't believe
anything you get in chain e-mails which are almost always false.#2
Take 2 mins. each day and visit politifact (com) and/or factcheck (org)Dare to become more enlightened.
country mom,The question is: that when people take quotes
like,"You didn't build that." out of context and twist it to their
own advantage to attack the person they dislike; then are they not liars
themselves for distorting the truth. That is one of the problems with Americian
politics: dishonest politicians generate a lot of liars in their support.
I don't know what all of you are so worried about. I expect Romney's
taxes will be released.These things just have a way of working
themselves out.Ask Blair Hull and Jack Ryan.
Esquire, Aug 24th 5:49 am. I can not believe you are calling Mitt dishonest.
President Obama can't even remember which lie he told when! He is the
biggest liar I have ever seen and I have been around for several Presidential
liars. Obama,"The middle class is doing fine." "You didn't
build that." Fast and Furious documentation seal and executive privilage.
Obama has spent millions to keep his records from the public so he can continue
to lie to the entire nation! There have been several presidents that have flat
out lied to us! Clinton lied, "I didn't have sexual relations with
that woman!" Carter may have not been much of a president but he is an
honest man and the last honest democrat president.
I apologize for the misspelling. I meant to write COME ON!!!!! not COME
ONE!!!!!.So her it is COME ON!!!!!!
" I cry when I write my tithing check." are you serious!!!!! Why????
because you're so grateful that your checks have alot of zeroes at the end
of it????? COME ONE..Publican and Pharisee...Widows mite....!!! Read, ponder
and apply. Tithing IS NOT ABOUT MONEY!!!! and Fasting IS NOT ABOUT FOOD!!!! I
pray that those who study the actions of Mr. Mitt Romney, come to the knowledge
that he is a man. That the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is
exactly what the title says, and just like times of old,when Christ dwelt upon
the earth. The Church was true, the people were works in progress. Jesus is was
and always will be the only source of perfection.
Re: don17,You seem to know a lot about Romney's tax returns so
can you please give a break down of how much Romney paid in US Income Tax. It is
understood that he could not avoid paying tax like property tax on his many
mansions, and sales tax on his luxury car pruchase, but what did he pay in
Income Tax. That is the question people want answered.
Tiger5, Do you have any examples of "sweet deals" Harry Reid
got. Are they sweeter than Romney's deals that left companies broke and
that caused the pension funds to have to be covered by the federal government?
(Dade Behring Inc) But go ahead and write a letter about Harry
Reids investements. This is about Romney's taxes.
@Don17The notion that Romney has "filed" an estimated tax
return is simply false. The only U.S. 2011 tax form Romney has filed is Form
4868, "Application for Automatic Extension of Time To File U.S. Individual
Income Tax Return". The Form is very simple (less than a half page) and
only asks for 4 numbers: (1) Estimate of total tax liability for 2011, (2) Total
2011 payments, (3) Balance due and (4) Amount you are paying with the extension
request.The "estimated tax return" you are quoting from is
an unfiled, unofficial release to the press for damage control purposes (so he
can pretend he has released two years). He has said the real Form will not be
released until October 15th (which incidentally is the last possible filing date
that his return can be extended).Romney's main problem is
trust. Democrats don't trust him, Independents don't trust him, and
(as we saw in the Republican primaries) even members of his own party don't
trust him. His financial shenanigans and refusal to disclose his tax returns
are feeding into the general distrust.
Gawker reports that Romney has 20 secret hedge funds and other cash stashed in
foreign banks. The partnerships and limited liability corporation account for a
minimum of $10,069,000 of Romney's assets in 2011 and yielded $913,300 in
income, according to his 2012 financial disclosure.In addition, Bain
documents indicate Romney may be participating in total return equity swaps, a
scheme that involves owning U.S. dividend-paying stocks in an offshore account
and pretending, for accounting purposes, not to own the stock. The dividends
earned would not be reported on his tax return.In addition, it looks
like he is probably using "blocker corporations" to not report income in
the U.S.Bottom line here is you can't really quote percentages
and draw conclusions about what percentage of income he gives to charity, etc.
because we do not know how much income he has earned abroad and not included on
his U.S. tax return.
To laggie: I have taken the Romney tax info for 2011 from his filed
2011(estimated) tax form that was waiting on documentation. The estimated income
is complete as is the amounts of the deductions and amounts paid in taxes and
donations made. My information remains correct. I have taken the info posted
directly from the 2011 tax form(estimates) with payments made. Again, to
finalize his taxes Romney is waiting on other documents the IRS needs. Taxes
paid, donations made and income earned are done.Your disagreeing
over something trivial when it is a fact Mr. Romney and his wife made donations
in excess of 4 million dollars. My previous post still stands correct!Now lets discuss what you should be worried about: Like 25 million
people not earning incomes to file taxes from! Why 253,000 Small
Businesses are no longer paying taxes? Gone out of business the last 4 years.Why are 47 plus million people on food stamps now?Why does
Obama avoid 8th and Figeruoa in Los Angeles when he comes to LA? Answer: So he
can avoid the Thousands of people mulling around the Salvation Army Center!
Doesn't look good on TV!
re:Don17Romney hasn't released his 2011 tax return yet. For 2010:Adjusted gross income: 21,646,507Charitable
contributions;(rounded up):$3,000,000 (includes cash and non-cash ie donations
of stock)The cash contributions, 8% went to the LDS church. The non-cash
contributions went to the Tyler Foundation (Romney's foundation). The
Tyler Foundation could've donated to the church. Total
charitable contributions=13.9% of income in charitable contributions. This whole discussion is ridiculous. The fact remains the Romneys, and other
wealthy people have vast amounts of disposable income. So whether they give 10%
or 20% is immaterial in the sight of God who pointed out that the widow gave of
her want while the rich gave of their abundance and were prideful.
@Lost in DCAdmittedly, I just typed that in for fun to counter the
Jeremiah Wright, Birtherism, NRA nuts, anti-UN, etc.Romney does keep
a lot of his money outside the US--so, it does beg the question, why does he
hate America? Can you imagine what the Tea drinkers would be saying if the
situation were reversed?I have no special spiritual gifts, but I
have prayed about whether I should support him--and the answer is NO!
Romney's budget is more in line with King Noah than King Benjamin. Hope the Romney Gazette a.k.a. D-NEWS, can pick up the pieces when
Romney loses.Have a blessed day everybody.
To:Kalindra:Your assessment of Romney's taxes is wrong. I
quoted LINE 22 of the Romney taxes which is the TOTAL INCOME LINE. No deductions
taken. Your math is incorrect on this point. Please take a look at the postings
I made earlier in the comment section. For example, Romney's gross income
in 2011 is estimated at 20,900,000 dollars and his donations ate over 4 million
dollars. Well above 8% and well Above 12%. 2010 is similar. Again, I have taken
the Romney numbers right from the tax forms filed! Donations for the
Romney's include nearly 20% of income. That does not include all the time
given to charities they have supported for years. Those are also listed in the
comment section here earlier. Again, your hit piece is just that a
HIT Piece full of incorrect information and incorrect assumptions and comments!
Because of your incorrect info you have gone after 5 other posters incorrectly!
Liberals, why not make a deal with the conservatives? Romney's 10 years of
tax returns for Obama's 70,000 pages of "Fast and Furious documents he
is witholding in contempt of Congress.By the way, Reagan only
released 1 year of tax returns and did just fine as a president.
At least he pays taxes, unlike some of President Obama's political buddies.
It's funny, not one person on this site cared for one second about
Romney's tax return 3 months ago. If the media told you to jump off a cliff
would you do it? Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Ultra bob.In any case, I would like to have complete and accurate
knowledge of the character, loyalty and philosophy of the men chosen to lead.
While that is probably not possible, I would try my best to find it out.Does Obama provide that to you
Furry.You are passing judgement. What's the point of your
spiritual life, if all we do is pass judgement.Screwdriver.193k a year is chump change, when you understand Harry's wealth.I
ask again, how did Harry land those sweet deals?
My jaw dropped at this statement by Furry 1993: "We also give liberally of
our time and efforts. Somehow I don't think Romney does the same."Romney gave his entire salary and severance package (about $1.4 million)
earned from the SLC Olympics to charity. In addition to that the Romneys
contributed $1 million to the Olympic organizing committee. These numbers are
on Snopes.How about the fact that he didn't take a salary
during his 4 years as Governor of Massachusetts? The $1 million inheritance
from his father he donated to a scholarship fund? As a bishop and stake
president I think it's safe to say he was liberal with his time and efforts
as well.There are areas where Mitt Romney may be vulnerable to
attack, but generosity is not one of them.
Obviously Romney thinks that the fallout from releasing his taxes is worse than
not releasing them.Should he? Obviously his call. But,
I sincerely dont believe it has anything to do with tithing amount. Just my
opinion.I didnt attack him. I just doubt his answer. I
strongly agree that Romney has done nothing illegal concerning his taxes.But, I feel the same about GE. Consistency is all I look
Tax experts who've begun to examine the Bain documents released Thursday
(by Gawker) are raising questions as to whether Romney has paid all the taxes he
owed.At issue are two tax-avoidance techniques employed by Bain
which have been commonly used in the private equity world but have come under
increasing legal scrutiny.The first scheme involves owning U.S.
dividend-paying stocks in an offshore account and pretending, for accounting
purposes, not to own the stock. Instead, the taxpayer tells the IRS that he owns
a derivative product that is identical to the stock, except it isn't the
stock, so therefore no U.S. taxes are owed. It's called a "total return
equity swap," because the buyer still gets the benefit, the "total
return", of owning the stock, or equity.The second technique is
"not legal," according a tax expert and professor of law at the
University of Colorado. A taxpayer saves substantial amounts of money by
pretending that regular income received as a management fee for running a
private equity firm is not income, but is instead a capital gain. That drops the
tax rate on that income from 35 percent to 15 percent.
@ Rifleman: Since I am not LDS, I didn't pay any tithing. I am also not
running for President of the US and claiming that I can't release my tax
records because of my charitable donations. Nor am I claiming that even though
my tax burden is so very low, it is actually higher because of the charitable
contributions I made. Romney has issued for different excuses for
not releasing his taxes: Obama would distort the numbers and use them for
political gain, he is not a business, his wife doesn't want him to, and his
charitable contributions are personal. Which one are we supposed to believe?@ Lost in DC: Please explain to me how you can calculate a full tithe
of 10% and have it show on your taxes as less than 8% of you adjusted gross
income - and please remember, God is the one you have to justify it to.
Harry Reid is still not running for president. He's still not the first
presidential candidate with overseas accounts and a penchant for tax
irregularites like Mitt proved to have while running for govenor. Not long from now, the GOP will be back to demanding tax records from anyone
running for office just like Mitt has demanded from every political opponent he
has ever had. And Mitt is the first presidential candidate to use
Mormonism as the excuse for his secrecy even though he has been telling us
allready how much he gives to the chuch. He was bragging about it just a week
ago "that it put his taxes above 20% if you include tithing. He
just won't tell us how much he gives to the country.
@ anneray: I am well aware of the fact that there are charitable contributions
other than tithing - but if you pay 2% to a charity and 10% to tithing, that
makes your contribution amount 12% -not less than 8%.No matter how
you slice and dice it, Romney did not pay a full tithe - especially since the
less than 8% is on his adjusted income, not his actual income.Unless
of course you are arguing that tithing does not count as a charitable deduction
for tax purposes - in which case it has nothing to do with Romney not releasing
his tax forms....
atl134making excuses for the lies does not change the fact that they are
lies."cut the deficit in half"not a lie? Taking the
deficit from $900 billion to $1.8 trillion is cutting it in half? Each of
BO's deficits is higher than anything before. What kind of fuzzy math are
you using? "reduce health care costs by $2500 per family""Obamacare is not fully implemented yet. This remains to be seen
whether or not it's accurate once we get to that stage." the most recent estimate for the cost is that it is 3X what BO orginally
projected, and STILL you claim you beleive ANY of what he said about Obamacare?
I wonder if you'd believe him if he said we can breath solid dirt."Obamacare is not a tax"The SCOTUS determined it was."porkulus will keep unemployment under 8%"Unemployemnt was 7.7% when he took over. It has not been below 8% since, not
matter how you spin it.and what about BO's lies that if you
like your current insurance, you can keep it? False.Craig, and BO has shown a willingness or ability to work with repubs? REALLY??
I had a favorable view of Mitt Romney when he was Governor of Massachusetts. He
was able to work with Democrats and compromise for the public good. He struck me
as one of the more reasonable Republicans whom I might be able to vote for. But
the moment he left office, he began posturing for the hard right. Now he uses
his payment of church tithes to shield his tax payments from public scrutiny in
the weeks before a Presidential election. This isn’t the man I once
thought I knew.
I'm not LDS but frankly this excuse is offensive to me. He seems to be
using his Church affiliation when it serves his purposes and saying its none of
anyone's business when it doesn't. Whether he releases his tax returns
or not is his choice, but come on, let's not try to bring the Church into
embarrassed Utahn! writes "Did you hear his "joke" about not having
to show his birth certificate."If Mr. Obama would conduct
himself like the President of The United States instead of a hate monger he
wouldn't open himself up for such jokes. Unfortunately there is serious
doubt about the authenticity of Mr. Obama's alleged birth certificate.
Prior to the republican campaign elect Romney for president I was a fan of Mitt
Romney. The amount of hate, lies and phony slander about President Obama
has given me cause to fight back with the same weapons against Mitt Romney. About his taxes. I think Romney would be more likely to report his
income to the church most honestly and to the IRS mostly dishonestly. The 10%
tithing rule might indicate that Romney had much more income than the IRS
reporting requires. The discrepancy between the two might/would be embarrassing
to Romney when viewed by ordinary people and thus would be a very good reason
for keeping it secret. Further, if the breakdown of the taxable
charity deduction was such that would indicate an unpopular character of the
man, like as if the LDS church deduction was 100% with zero to other American
charities, voters might question his basic motivation. In any case,
I would like to have complete and accurate knowledge of the character, loyalty
and philosophy of the men chosen to lead. While that is probably not possible,
I would try my best to find it out.
@lost in DCI see you can't refute any of the three examples I made
about Romney's lies. "cut the deficit in half"That's not a lie, it's a goal that wasn't achieved in part
because it relies on actually getting Congress to take care of it. "reduce health care costs by $2500 per family"Obamacare is
not fully implemented yet. This remains to be seen whether or not it's
accurate once we get to that stage."Obamacare is not a
tax"Romney has argued that Obamacare's penalty is a tax but
that his mandate penalty is not. Tax, fee, penalty, I don't care what it is
they all in effect mean the same thing in the context. I think both play
political games on that one."porkulus will keep unemployment
under 8%"That was a projection their models were showing in
September 2008. The model severely underestimated the recession and it was
obvious when he took the oath of office that no matter what he did unemployment
would get over 8%. It was 8% when they passed the stimulus before it could even
get started. Job losses decreased rapidly afterwards.
Furry1993 - First off you are claiming that you are "better" than Romney
because you dont claim tithing on your taxes. Aside from being a ridiculous
thing to do, you are contradicting what the prophet has said. There are many
people that claim to be extra righteous because the do things that are not
required by the church. At best they are self righteous - at worst they are
apostate. The bottom line is, the church provides tax forms for you every year.
Kind of a strange thing to do if the "proper" course is to not deduct
tithing as a charitable donation. The truth is, you are throwing away your
money on a misplaced moral superiority.
ScrewdriverCasa Grande, AZHarry reid makes $193,400.00 a year,
has a law degree, is 73 and at the end of his career. Really? You wonder how he
became a millionare? You don't really believe in investing do you?Compound interest. WOW.--------LOL - clearly you
don't know anything about Reid's history do you.
Happy Valley Heretic - no you didnt.
truthmocker,thank you for admiting BO also uses data mining. Whether BO
tells who gives to him or not is beside the point, BO uses data mining.Some Romney donors who have been disclosed have been persecuted by the press
and other BO groupies. I'm GLAD Romney wants to protect his donors from
harrasment.BTW, did Christ qualify his charge to render unto Ceasar?
Did he say, "only if Ceasar does such and such or doesn't do such and
such"? I see no point in your last comment.atl134,I see
you cannot deny that BO and nancy are liars.cut the deficit in halfreduce health care costs by $2500 per familyObamacare is not a taxno lobbyists in my administrationopen and transparent administrationporkulus will keep unemployment under 8%all bills posted 2 days before
being voted onBO has been all about jobsetc ad infinitumand no, I put no credence in MSNBC or moveondotorg or huffingtonpost
"factcheckers". Romney is right to blow them off.If Romney
has mispoken, nothing he has said has had so detrimental an impact as have the
lies BO and his surrogates spew every day
From Business Insider - "In 2010, Mitt Romney took $3 million in charitable
deductions on his tax return, against adjusted gross income of $22
million."I'm not that good at math but that seems like a
little more than 8% - in fact it's 14% - against gross not net. Maybe
Kalindra was thinking of Biden who gave 0.8% in charitable donations, or maybe
she is thinking of the current occupant of the white house who gave about 2%.
What she is definitely thinking is that no matter what truth hit her in the face
she would not vote for Romney. However, the most likely place the 8% came from
is her imagination.The one thing you see for sure on these posts is
that no matter what answer is given about Romney's taxes the whiners will
just find something else to lie about.
To:Furry 1993:Your assessment of Mitt Romney is wrong. In an earlier
post to this article I state the actual facts of taxes paid and donations made.
Your attack of Romney as to what, how much or to what His and Ann's
donations are used for is weak. WHY NOT TRY LOOKING UP THE FACTS BEFORE YOU
BLINDLY ATTACK! Or don't ignore posted facts. My first post lists the lines
from the tax returns and the ACTUAL REPORTED AMOUNTS.Now as to the
use of Donations that you attack the Romney's on.Mitt and Ann
Romney support the following charties besides the LDS church. These include time
and money!The Olympic Truce FoundationThe Points of Light
FoundationThe Boy Scouts of AmericaChamber of Commerces, including
Salt Lake CityBYU School of ManagementOlympic AidUnited Way of
Massachusetts BayFamilies FirstBest Friends FoundationAnn D
Romney and W Mitt Romney Chatitable TrustDoesn't sound like the
evil guy you and others make him out to be WITH NO PROOF!End the
smear campaign!Obama's the issue! His VP said The United States
is in Recession!(ABC NEWS 6-27-12)
@lost in DC"never seen such a dishonest politician? REALLY?"He has openly blown off factcheckers that proved his "Obama wants to
get rid of the work requirement for welfare" claim was false (he even
requested what Obama did when he was Governor and Obama was following Gov.
Herbert and Sandoval's request). He's lying about medicare (his plan
isn't solvent at all, nor does he leave things unchanged for current
beneficiaries since getting rid of obamacare reopens the doughnut hole for
seniors). He's lying about abortion to somebody since he's supported
the normal life of the mother etc exceptions but also said he'd support a
ban on all abortion with no exceptions, and the Personhood amendment which also
leaves no exceptions. Absolutely Romney is one of the biggest liars there are in
embarrassed utahn!rather than be embarrassed you might consider moving
MoJules: Both you and I and Mitt Romney feel uncomfortable with broadcasting
our charitable giving and deeds because we understand and believe what the
Master has instructed us: “But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand
know what thy right hand doeth” (Matt. 6:3) Ann
Romney’s comment about how she weeps for joy because they are able to pay
what they do in tithing is one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever
heard. God bless both of them. And may God bless their critics with the
ability to recognize goodness and light.
He and Ann were perfectly willing to say they pay 10% and that when you at
charitable contributions to taxes that pushes them over 20%. They aren't
reluctant to disclose that... they just want an excuse for not revealing taxes
that doesn't make it look like they have something to hide. I think most
Americans aren't buying it.
Those worrying about how much tithing Mr. Romney has paid conveniently forget
that US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner had not paid $35,000 in
self-employment taxes for the years 2001–2004. His philosophy? Do as I
say and not as I do.
Not only that, but Mitt's a real card a real comedian! Did you hear his
"joke" about not having to show his birth certificate.It is a sad
commentary on the quality of the candidate as Esquire mentioned.
@RepublicantthinkstraighI am a middle class and my boss is a CEO and
shareholder and not Obama and the government. If my boss is doing well, I will
do well and get my raise. Did you know that I haven't have a raise since
Obama took office. If the government will taxed them to death, I won't have
a job anymore. Who do you work for?
obama groupies,how the economy doing?how is the unemolyment rate?where's your boy's transcripts?who paid for his education?how did the genius get into Harvard when by his own admission he was stoned
through much of HS?how he doing taking care of his half brother that is in
poverty by third world standards?keep talking about issues that do not
effect the US.obama will go down in the election and it will not be close
because he has done NOTHING to make the US stronger since being in office.
To "Furry1993" but even your tithing has some of the same effects as
charitable contributions to other funds within the LDS church. Tithing goes to
pay for buildings and equipment at Welfare Square. In paying for church
buildings you are essentially building job training centers where people learn
leadership skills through their callings at church. You are also building
community centers where people gather, and are concerned with each others well
being. You forget that through the Gospel people are blessed, and as the BoM
shows, the more they embrace it, the wealthier their nations become.You missed the story recently about Romney's time as a Bishop and Stake
President (12 years total for the two callings). He has helped people with his
time and money. He has shown that he does exactly as you do.
The tax issue with elections is similar to the propsition 8 issue in California.
When the list of donations got out, people were tenacious and vicious about
those that donated and got to their businesses and personal lives similar to the
ChicFilet problem a couple of weeks ago. Businesses lose money when some go
after good people with good intentions and the God given freedoms we enjoy in
America. People have a right to free speech but at what point to the people
behave like vigilantes and disregard the law abiding people and their rights?
The Democrats want something to base their national convention on
and the President's accomplishments or lack thereof is not what they want
to do for a week. They don't want to spend time showing how much the
Obamas have spent on their lavish vacations, events and the Obamacare issues.
They can't do as they did four years ago when they arranged events in
stadiums and brought people to those events to be activists as the President is
not just an Illinois politician but the President of the United States of
America, all people not just his cronies in Chicago. Team of Rivals?
re:LostinDCFrom the AP article:"The effort by Romney
appears to be the first example of a political campaign using such extensive
data analysis. President Barack Obama's re-election campaign has long been
known as data-savvy, but Romney's project appears to take a page from the
Fortune 500 business world and dig deeper into available consumer data.Romney's campaign has also been secretive about how it raises its money,
and most fundraising events have been closed to the press. Unlike Obama,
Romney's campaign has declined to publicly identify the names of major
fundraisers, known as bundlers, who have helped amass much of its money.""Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou
hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and
follow me."Btw, What did Caesar use taxes for? Did he establish
a social welfare program to help the elderly, children, indigent and disabled?
Did he use taxes to fund wars? What?
@ Furry1993There is nothing immoral about utilizing the tax
deductions allowed by our tax laws. If you are paying an honest tithe
wouldn't your God want to to spend the other 90% wisely. Giving extra
money to the federal government is like giving more booze to an alcoholic.
He'll waste what you give him and then want more.
Getting it right... Yeah, your getting it right with the CEO's and
shareholders. The employees will continued to be underpaid and pay a higher
percentage of taxes. Mitt would be happy to give you a pat on the back then a
severance check when he sends your job overseas. Mitt will not win this
election. The independent voters (me being one) are astonished at the numerous
poor decisions made in this campaign. He has done a great job appealing to the
no thought- just do as your told extreme right but nothing to appeal to me.
Obama in a landslide. I'd give Pallin and Mccain a better chance to win
I paid 15% into charitable contributions. I did not take any deductions on my
tax return because I am patriotic. I paid more than you did and more than my
fair share than you. Oh! I feel better now... I don't think this works...
I hope Romney has successfully decreased his tax burden by as much as possible.
I say good for him. Any one of us would do the same. I would be worried about
his business credentials if he didn't. The real issue is why is it that
Americans find it necessary to put their money overseas and in tax havens. It
says more about our ridiculous tax system than it does about Mitt Romney.And I think the level of cynicism regarding Romney's comment that
he doesn't want people to see his charitable contributions is disgusting.
Just how much would you like him to brag about all of the money he gives away?
It kind of defeats the purpose. It's pretty sad that so many people
can't relate to that.
@Craig Clark"...This explanation is inconsistent with his
previous position...".The core issue of the romney campaign.
Newsflash: The IRS has Mitt Romney's tax returns. If there is something
wrong with them, they can prosecute. If there's not anything wrong with
them, why does Mitt have to release them?
The whole isssue of Romney's tax returns is based on how the wealthy
manipulate and use the tax code for their own benefit. They have advantages
which other people who pay their taxes without the benefit of special tax breaks
do not.What his tax returns will show is the way the tax code has
been skewed over the years to benefit the wealthy in comparison to the much-less
wealthy.The complaint about tithing is just another ruse to avoid
what the vast majority of people want. It doesn't matter how much money he
made. It's how he is able to take advantage of his financial status to
gain special consideration.
My husband and I pay a full tithe (10%) on our gross. We choose not to take a
deduction on it on our tax return because that would diminish the impact on us
of the tithe since we would get an offset on our taxable amount. Our charitable
donations to the LDS Church go to the Welfare Fund, Missionary Fund, disaster
relief, etc. -- the conributions that actully help people instead of pay for the
expenses of the Church (and, yes, we deduct THOSE charitable contributions on
our tax returns). To us, that is what paying a full tithe really means. We
also give liberally of our time and efforts. Somehow I don't think Romney
does the same.
Esquire,never seen such a dishonest politician? REALLY? You’ve
NEVER seen BO or Nancy Pelosi? I’m not buying it.Craig,You KNOW the intent of Ann Romney’s heart? Really? What other
spiritual gifts are you claiming?Wildcat,You know the intent
of Mitt Romney’s heart? Really? What other spiritual gifts are you
claiming?OHBU,So you are giving BO a pass on not practicing
what he preaches? BO refuses to pay any more taxes than he legally owes, which
is his right, but BO says the rich (he being included in that group) SHOULD pay
more, then he turns around and refuses to do what he says he should.Christ also said to render unto Ceasr that which is Ceasar's, so Romney
is well within Christ's teachings when he releases that information to the
IRS. Your claim he does it to make a buck is non-sensical. Someone who has
amassed a fortune knows better than to give $100 for a $4 tax benefit.truthmocker,the same AP article says BO uses similar tactics. Why did
you neglect to include that information in your comment?
My vote is for Romney because I believe that under his presidency our country
will be prosperous. If you work hard and be successful whether it be as an
employee or have your own business, you will be rewarded and pat on the back.
"instead of keeping his billions in the USA and paying a fair tax to help
the economy and unemployment he hides his billions outside the USA"Sergio:And if Obama is re-elected, if I were Mitt Romney, I would
keep even MORE of MY money overseas. You see, Sergio, this is Romney's
money, not Uncle Sam's.And, Sergio, how much would be a
"fair share"??? Give us a number.
RE: mjkkjk and others,While you are arguing back and forth what you
or others would or would not do, you are missing the point that is: you or I or
others are not running for president of the United States. But Mitt Romney is,
and therefore he is electing to be the face of and represent all American and
the USA. And therefore we the voters and citizens should expect and demand the
best of our leaders, and it makes no sense to say Mitt is bad, but Obama is just
as bad. It is that kind of thinking and excuses that has given us scoundrels for
Re: Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT" .... and I have paid a higher
percentage than ol' Mit, thanks for posing that question though."One of the advantages of the internet is that I can make any
unsubstantiated claim, make myself appear to be bigger, or more charitable than
the next guy. It might impress you to know that I gave 300% of my gross to
charity last year and single-handedly saved the lives of millions of artic
foxes. And yes, I do remember the story of the "the widow and
the mite". Mr. Romney isn't the one trumpeting how much money he gave
So I am just wondering, Reid said that a source told him about Romneys taxes.
Maybe the IRS leaked that to Reid, since they seem to be in the pocket of
liberals. Now I don't believe that, cause I don't believe Reid, but
you have to wonder how that information could get out, only one way. Cause with
as private as Romney is about himself, you think he really is going to blast to
people what he does or doesn't pay in taxes? Right.
Romney claims he is so concerned about the economy and the unemployment, but
instead of keeping his billions in the USA and paying a fair tax to help the
economy and unemployment he hides his billions outside the USA to avoid paying
tax and helping America; so why should what he pays in tithing make him
reluctant to show his tax returns if all is on the up and up, what is he hiding.
Well Read,"The appearance that he is hiding something is out
there. This one issue will not be the one thing that causes him to lose the
nomination. I think it is just one of many indications. I think he is not living
up to the LDS standards he professes to believe."==========As you say, the appearance is out there. In politics, success hinges on
appearances. Romney is enough of a hard-nosed political realist to know that. In
a Presidential race, hardball is how the game is played which is probably how he
rationalizes the types of distortions that both he and Obama engage in against
each other. Latter-day Saint ethics and morality have fallen casualty to
politics in this election. That's not just sad for Romney and for the
Church. It's ugly for America and the world how this type of politics makes
both sides need to go take a shower.
According to an investigation by the AP, Mitt Romney’s campaign has been
using a tactic called “data mining” to cull personal information
about random Americans, with the goal of finding and targeting potential donors
through advertisement. Two primary pieces of information the Romney campaign
seeks are “purchasing history and church attendance” of potential
donors, indicating that they are looking for high-spenders.
I think Mitt should provide his tax info when Obama finally provides his Birth
re: lost in DCI'm not going after Obama because he's not
claiming that his charitable contributions are strictly between him and the
Lord. To claim that revealing his contributions would be unholy, while
simultaneously releasing them to the IRS to make a buck is hypocritical.
It is amazing that anyone would not only volunteer to be a candidate for office
but to subject themselves to being in a fish bowl for years at a time. It is
amazing that many commenters are getting caught up in the data that is out
there. Tithing, fast offerings and other contributions to the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints is a religious requirement, not a political
requirement. Many contributors know that a person that has given many years of
service to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints goes through a
process with the local Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
and declares to the Bishop that he/she and they as a couple of donated a
full-tithing to the Church. Their children have that same opportunity. The
Church is a great place to be a lay person which means you get more than the
opportunity to be a leader Bishop over 500 or more and Stake President over
3,000 or more and help all those through their lives which includes troubles,
also. You get to be a Sunday School, Young Men and Women leader, teacher
Lets look at the real numbers and not claims by Kalindra in their post.Romney Taxes 2010. Line 22 Income 21,661,344. Donations to Charity Sch A
16-17; 2,983,807. Tax payments(Line 72) 4,619.207. Kalindra your math appears to
be wrong. The Romney's donated more than 8 percent! Just another unfounded
hit on the Romneys.Romney Taxes 2011(estimated) Line 22 Income
20,908,880. Line 72 taxes 3,434,411. Sch A lines 16-17 donations 4,020.572.
Again well over 8 percent.Now lets talk Joe Biden: Donations less
than 1% while the average Utahn gives 10.6% PEW Survey. Now the
Economy the real issue is where Obama has failed!25 million
unemployed47.2 million on food stamps(40 percent increase last 4 years)16.6 percent of population in poverty253,000 small businesses closed
down last 4 years16 Trillion in Debt1.1 trillion added to debt this
year90 Billion in failed green stimulus dollars(Could have built 10
Nuclear power plants to supply 20 million homes power and created long term jobs
and cut the trade imbalance)!War Against Fossil Energy.Obama Failed!
Why does Mitt Romney hate America?
I think Mitt should release 10 years of income tax information if he wants to be
president. He should have done it a year of two ago. The appearance that he is
hiding something is out there. This one issue will not be the one thing that
causes him to lose the nomination. I think it is just one of many indications. I
think he is not living up to the LDS standards he professes to believe. Look
at the vicious things he has said about anyone who has opposed him in the
primaries and now in the presidential election. He is not living up to the
standard question - Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow man?"
He is not at all honest in the political advertizement put out by himself and
those supporting him. When it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that what he
or his campaign claims he still stands by it. It seems like he and his party
believe if we tell a lie often enough the public will accept it as truth. I do
not think he will win for the above reasons.
There could me many reasons that they do not want the records released. Believe
it or not, not everyone wants their name affixed to building that they financed,
whether that be a sports venue, hospital or a university building. Some
contribute large sums towards the construction of religious buildings such as
schools and seminaries, welfare projects and even temples, all without the
recognition of the public at large. Just sayin...
From the AP release:Ann Romney, who joined her husband for the
interview, said she loved tithing and that it makes her emotional."When Mitt and I give that check," she said, "I actually
cry."==========Sorry, Ann, but I'm not buying
that. This is not about tithing and your pitch for public sympathy just adds to
the suspicion. Time for you and Mitt to level with the country once and for all.
Joe Blow, truthseeker (truthmocker),I guess you’ve never read, or
never bought into “and when thou givest alms, let not thy right hand know
what thy left hand doeth”BlueDevil,See above. Also,
there are other ways to donate besides tithingKalindra,Tax
accounting differs from normal accounting, thus the return showing 8% (if
that’s what it said) and what he felt was a full tithe on his actual
income. And who made you his bishop to judge whether he paid a full tithe or
not?Rifleman, Let’s not forget that he faithfully served
the people of MA without taking a salaryScrewdriver,Go ahead
and ask for Romney’s birth certificate and grades, nothing is stopping
you.OHBU,You go after Romney for taking tax credits for
tithing? First, there are no “credits” for tithing, just
deductions. Why are you not going after BO for taking all the deductions HE
took? After all, BO says the rich should pay more, and he’s rich –
why doesn’t BO practice what he preaches and pay more?
The former Massachusetts governor talked about tithing last weekend on "Fox
News Sunday.""The Bible speaks about providing tithes and
offerings. I made a commitment to my church a long, long time ago that I would
give 10 percent of my income to the church. And I followed through on that
commitment," Romney said. "And, hopefully, as people look at various
individuals running for president, they'd be pleased with someone who made
a promise to God and kept that promise."(Feb 2012)
@ MoabUte*it wouldn't matter if Mitt's tax returns should a 20
Million dollar gift to the Nazi party. The LDS faithful here would still vote
for him"I, who consider himself an active member of the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints, beg to differ. If I found out that Mitt
had donated millions to the Nazi party, it WOULD change my vote. I believe in
voting for honest and wise people, regardless of religion. I think
it is a disservice to LDS people to paint them as such mindless sheep. Having
said that, I strongly suspect Mitt DID give millions . . . . to his church,
which works to use that money for the betterment of human-kind through helping
the poor and spreading the gospel of peace as taught by Jesus Christ.Lest you disagree and call us *hatemongers*, I don' buy it. We may most
strongly disagree with our neighbor and try to use our influence to uphold
traditional values, but we are taught to love our neighbors as brothers and
sisters, regardless of differences.
I am NOT a fan of Romney. He has said no and now he should just
shut up about it. He has disclosed what is legally required and that is all he
needs to do. The voters should be looking at both his words and his
actions to determine if he should be president or not. The truth is
that ALL of them make a lot more money than most of us reading this, so
what's the point? What I need to know is if he will follow the
Constitution and if he really believes in limited government and that the people
are smart enough to run their own lives. Personally, I find that
both he and Obama come up short and I am not excited about either of them.But his taxes, beyond what is legally required are his own business.
Let's get onto to something worthwhile.
That Romney pays a tithing to the Church is not news. That information has been
out there for a long time. This explanation is inconsistent with his previous
position that the reason he wouldn't release more returns was because his
opponents would use it against him. This latest excuse is so lame it sounds like
just another ruse.
So what if his tax returns show that he parks ALL his money in the Cayman
Islands or in Switzerland? Legally putting your money somewhere besides in a
society where other people feel entitled to steal most of it through a punitive
tax code is smart.Unfortunately, too many people in this country
feel like rich people are unpatriotic if they move THEIR money where it is most
efficient rather than just do what is politically popular.That is
why Romney should not reveal his tax forms. Too many liberals will go over it
line by line and use every investment to try and prove that he is
"unpatriotic" instead of "smart".
If he's so convinced that his tithing contributions are strictly between
him and God, and it's nobody else's business, why did he take the tax
credits for it? He's too modest to let everyone know about his
contributions, but not modest enough to itemize it as a deduction.
Harry reid makes $193,400.00 a year, has a law degree, is 73 and at the end of
his career. Really? You wonder how he became a millionare? You don't really
believe in investing do you?Compound interest. WOW.
Tithing is Very Personal and Mr. Romney is not using it as an excuse, its his
nature and upbringing to not discuss this. The tax return discussion is a
political ploy nothing more. The 2012 election is about a choice
between Class and sleaze ... thats my view....
Re: Moab UteThe fact that you think that shows your anti-Mormon
bias. Of course Mormons would quit supporting him if he donated $20 million to
the nazi party. My question for you is, if his taxes proved he paid a full
tithing and all of the taxes he's claimed to have paid, would it change
your attitude about him (of him being a liar) in the slightest? I think we both
know the answer is no. Otherwise you wouldn't be on here accusing other
people of that same blindness.
I can just imagine if Obama had refused to release his tax returns after McCain
allready had. The same conservatives here would have gone ballistic.And where is Romney's birth certificate AND grades? Why demand from Obama
what you won't demand of your own candidates?
Rifleman said: "I find it interesting that people find it any of their
business to question how Mitt Romney's method of determining how much money
he owed the Lord."Nope! This is mitt making yet another excuse,
not to be honest with the American people, and even worse he's making it
their business by bringing his religion into it and then blaming others for
asking why.Rifleman said: Before I decided to criticize Mitt
Romney's tithes and offerings I'd be inclined to ask myself how much
I've given to charity.I did, and I have paid a higher
percentage than ol' Mit, thanks for posing that question though.Now
my question for you what was the message of "the widow and the mite."His church service is you bringing his religion into it, which he
clearly wants to avoid. Not the evil left dragging religion into the race.
Let's make a deal.Romney will bring out the tax returns, if Harry
shows how he became a millionaire.
I find it interesting that people find it any of their business to question how
Mitt Romney's method of determining how much money he owed the Lord.Those same individuals gloss over the fact that he selflessly served the
members first of his ward and then of his stake for 13-years without any
financial compensation.Before I decided to criticize Mitt
Romney's tithes and offerings I'd be inclined to ask myself how much
I've given to charity.
Good one, Mitt.
Re: Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah"Since a full tithe is 10%, I can see
why he would be hesitant to release any additional tax returns."Your comment raises four questions:#1 How much tithing did you pay last
year?#2 If you paid tithing last year was it on your gross or your
net?#3 Why should how much money anybody pays in tithing be
anybody's business but their own?#4 If Romney had paid a 100% tithe
would that change your vote this November?I find it curious that
people who don't pay any tithing at all would worry about how much someone
MoabUteThat is by far one of the most insulting things a person has
ever said on here. You're saying that people are so dumb that if Mitt
donated to a murderous party we would still vote for him? That claim is
completely ignorant and asanine. I love how the left can make any wild
claim they feel but if a Conservative said something about Obama donating to the
Nazis we would be called racists bigots. John Kerry is worth hundreds of
millions as well. Did you hear an outcry from conservatives for him to release
his returns? No.
The Cayman Islands have a lot more to do with his refusal to release his tax
documents than how much tithing he paid.
Romney's tax returns are going to be leaked in due course. The longer he
waits and lets this go out of his control, the more damage it will do.Here's what I think the returns will say: One, his taxes were
significantly lower than expected, which will make middle class moderate voters
angry given that they themselves don't have the ability to drastically
reduce their personal tax burdens. Will they want someone who has an
"inside track" on America's biased tax code?Two, his
tithes may not match what LDS folks will perceive as appropriate given his
stature. Another embarrassment.
Mitt would be a fool to release his tax information, no doubt he's paid
them and honestly. It's just something for the democrats to harp. Keep
pounding the economy issues Mitt, that's where the pain is. The IRS knows
you paid your taxes.
Then why has he and his wife been bragging about paying 10% to the Church over
the past several months. Romney is a piece of work. Never have I seen such a
dishonest politician at the presidential candidate level.
Face it...Bill Clinton did not demand that Bob Dole release his tax returns.
George W didn't demand that John Kerry release his either. So why is Obama
obsesses with this? Both Clinton & Bush had legitimate success to run on,
while Mr NoExperience has zero…that’s right zilch, zip...the only
thing left for such level of success is personal attack and character
assassination. So to the liberals, save your sanity and start
regrouping for 2016 because this one is all over. You mess up by picking someone
with no experience, hopefully next time you pick someone that knows how to
balance his/her checkbook.
Only a fool would play into the hand of those who want to run this red herring
up the flag pole and make an issue out of it. As successful as he's been,
as varied as his career has been--don't you think he's been audited a
few times. Why to Obama's campaign helpers think they can convert
non-fools, by placing people like Biden and Reid in the place of the IRS?
It's a lose-lose deal, because if he doesn't produce them, then
he's hiding something; but if he does, then he didn't pay enough . . .
even though nearly half of Americans pay ZERO income taxes. These distractions
are all the other side has, because they don't have results, a record of
success, or good answers on real issues. Maybe just politics as usual, but
it's reached new lows.
Maybe Obama is withholding his school records because his grades were so
awesome, he doesn't want to gloat? At least Romney has given reasons for
not revealing his tax records, and I don't blame him. Sure, it would make
him appear to be more trustworthy, but that's a personal thing. I
don't make much money, but I don't want other people knowing what I
pay in tithes and offerings. It's personal.The Democrats'
tactics are to distract from Obama, who is clearly unqualified to be President
of the United States. The fact that Democrats nominated Obama for a second term
indicate that they are willing to put party before country. If they wanted the
best for America, they would have asked themselves if Obama's policies were
really working. It would seem they didn't ask themselves that, and assumed
FDR's New Deal stuff must have worked wonders, or else they figured it
would work this time around even though it didn't 80 years ago.
Dear Mitt!Pleeeeaaase, don't bring the church into this.
Right. It's about the tithing. That is just too funny.
Romney is a constant source of humor.
I have always felt that this is the reason that he is hesitant. I don't
like to share with others what we pay in tithing and fast offerings. I do
indexing and I didn't like sharing those numbers either and I also
didn't like sharing how many people I baptized on my mission. We as Latter
Day Saints are taught not to gloat. We are told that the relationship in
marriage is private and that we should not tell everyone what is in our
Patriarchal Blessings. Guess I understand Romney, cause I grew up with the same
teachings, and those teachings are in the Bible and the Book or Mormon.
Folks ask, "If he did release his taxes would the results change your mind
to vote for Romney"The real question is, is there any information that
could possibly be in Mitt's tax returns that would cause you NOT to vote
for Romney?If the answer is, "NO, nothing would make me change
my mind" than you are a scary individual. I have little doubt that here, in
Utah, it wouldn't matter if Mitt's tax returns should a 20 Million
dollar gift to the Nazi party. The LDS faithful here would still vote for him.
The contents of his tax returns could definitely sway independent voters though.
Funny his father, George Romney (born in Mexico I might add), was the guy who
started the whole tax return thing, he didn't seem to have a problem with
people knowing how much he gave to his church. Romney is proven himself
untrustworthy, he just hopes he'll get elected on an anti-Obama vote. And
frankly that's all the guy has going for him... good luck!
To Kalindra and others: Tithing and charitable contributions are NOT the same.
Tithing goes to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon),
charitable contritutions go to wherever and to whomever Mitt and Ann decide at
the time of giving, not just once a year but any time. That is very personal and
private information. Do you give out information to everyone every time you make
a donation to a firemen's fund, Police funds, or a neighbor's need? Do
you or your family take food, clothes, furniture when it's needed after a
tornado or hurricane or an accident on the highway? Respect others as you want
to be respected.
"Sorry, not buyin it."Joe Blow - who cares what you're
Romney should not release anything more than he has already committed to, i.e.,
2010 and 2011 returns. The only reason the liberals are "demanding" more
is so they can use that as another distraction from important issues like $16
trillion in debt, jobs, energy, education, and medicare. Just say
We already know from the one year that he has released that he gave less than 8%
in charitable contributions for 2010.Since a full tithe is 10%, I
can see why he would be hesitant to release any additional tax returns.
So now its the tithing. If this were really the reason, why did he not say so
before? He just goes from one excuse to the next. Its obvious what is
happening regardless of whether you think he should release them or not. It has
nothing to do with tithing. It has everything to do with how he
"legally" used the current tax code to make his millions. That would
not go well with his proposed tax cut for people like him. I'm sure his
father paid lots of tithing too. Mitt has every right to withhold his taxes,
but it his hard for anyone to trust him when he keeps making up new stories.
I believe him. I believe they give very generously. None of us would wave that
around, if we truly lived our gospel. I believe he and his wife are joyful
givers. I am thankful they choose to run for public office.
Amen to what NT said! No matter what, you're not going to change your mind
and vote for Romney. I keep asking what are you looking for that the IRS
missed?! Sheesh this is beyond annoying!
Joe Blow:Mitt's tithing is very personal. World needs people like joe
blow, makes everyone else loog good
@JoeBlowAre you joining all of those witch hunters demanding that he
make public his tax returns? If so, why? Is there really anything about his
releasing his tax returns that would cause you to change your vote?I
didn't think so. Same as with all the rest of those who are calling for his
tax returns.So, case closed.
Wouldn't that be a rather simple calculation to figure out how much he gave
in tithing? I know my fourth grader could do it. So not quite sure what the
grand mystery is. And why would this be the big controversial thing he is
hiding, preventing him from disclosing his taxes. Some lady just donated 5
million the the national cathedral to due repairs. The Duke family donated in
european sized cathedral to their name sake university, and were not worried it
would make a bad impression. The Marriott family donated millions to the church
and BYU.... no issues there. The list of people who have donated massive
amounts of money to their churches and causes is long and deep.This
is actually the secret he is hiding? I'm sure if he really felt who he
donated money to was so sensitive he could have that section redacted. Unless
there is something immoral about his donations. Now he has just cast even a
bigger cloud over his relationship with the church... made it worse.Here is some ground breaking news... I donate 10 percent to my church - guess
my political ambitions are dead.
I dont want to release my tax returns because it will show that I am way too
charitable.Sorry, not buyin it.