Comments about ‘Letter: Redistributing wealth could be known as communism, European socialism or social justice’

Mr. Gardner, the "guillotine of debt" we face is due to two unfunded foreign wars, a military budget larger than the combined military budgets of the world's next 20 most powerful nations and a regressive tax system that takes 25% of a school teacher's income but less than half that percentage from millionaires.

When I read letters like this complaining about "redistribution of wealth" it makes me wish it were possible to to require that every person who spouts these rightwing inanities be disallowed from driving on public roads, visiting a library, sending their children to public schools, camping in a national park, eating food that has passed a health inspection, and have access to police, fire and paramedic services in an emergency.

Re: "When I read letters . . . complaining about "redistribution of wealth" it makes me wish it were possible to . . . [disallow them] from driving . . . sending their children to public schools . . . fire and paramedic services . . . ."

No doubt.

Liberals always want to direct and control government largesse to those that agree with them.

It's called corruption. And, as Aristotle pointed out so long ago, it's the inevitable endstate of EVERY socialist, governmental redistribution scam.

But another example of "redistribution of wealth" is our current medical insurance system which transfers wealth from sick people to pockets of health insurance company CEOs and stockholders.

Or the kind of "redistribution of wealth" being proposed in which taxpayer dollars will be used to move the Utah state prison so the land may be developed by developers who will profit immensely from the deal.

And then there is Reagan's "trickle down" that pulled what little wealth the middle class had upward to the "job creators."

What's the saying? "Privatize the profits. Socialize the cost."

When one out of every three Americans is receiving some form of government welfare we have moved past the definition of socialism and are now approaching a complete economic collapse. Every socialistic government ends up in the dust bin of history because of this inevitable migration. One needs only to look to much of Europe to see where America is going! Social justice is only a phrase dishonest people use to dress up the same old socialism that has killed millions of people’s will to excel, to achieve or to prosper! It is the greatest destroyer of human spirits and lives ever invented!

The redistribution of wealth could also be known as:
Christianity,
church welfare,
charity,
parenthood,
civic responsibility,
exalting the poor in that the rich are made low (D&C 104:16),
sacrifice,
unselfishness,
not coveting your own possessions (D&C 19:26),
being a good neighbor,
consecration,
alms giving,
benevolence,
helping,
supporting,
giving a hand,
chivalry,
compassion,
empathy,
sympathy,
generosity,
forbearance,
thoughtfulness,
kindness,
solicitousness,
concern,
liberality,
being accommodating,
amnesty,
forbearance,
clemency,
mercy,
providence,
doing a good turn (Boy Scout Handbook),
comforting,
ministry,
deliverance,
humanitarianism,
public spirit,
courtesy,
benefaction,
dispensation,
relief,
equity,
endowment,
largesse,
hospitality,
bounteousness,
oblation,
favor,
good will,
succor,
blessing,
assistance,
aid,
sharing,
altruism,
beneficence,
philanthropy,
civic responsibility,
being an adult,
being a pillar of the community,
giving,
love,
being a good Samaritan,
volunteerism,
not turning aside the poor in the gate from their right (Amos 5:12),
maintaining the right of the poor (Psalms 140:12),
cooperation,
promoting the general welfare (U.S. Constitution),
and, yes, social justice.

All of the above are based on free-will. Communism is not.

procuradorfiscal, let me get this straight.

You're saying that law enforcement, fire fighters, paramedics, libraries, schools, parks, sewer systems, roads, bridges, etc., are "largesse" and "corruption?"

Seriously?

@ John CC..Can I decide to whom I redistribute my wealth or does someone else make that choice for me? If the latter is the case then none of the synonyms you used applies. Forced charity isn’t really charity at all, its coercion.

Taxes are the price we pay for a civilised society. We can not as individuals decide to whom we redistribute our wealth because most of us would redistribute it to no one but ourselves.

The military is the only MAJOR budget item that is allowed by the Constitution. Those who tell us that "unfunded wars" caused our economy to collapse are ignoring the facts. They refuse to look at the unauthorized expenditures made by Congress for programs that are not allowed by the Constitution. They ignore the fact that 2X more is spent for unauthorized social programs than is spent for the authorized duty of defense,

As far as charity and government goes, NOTHING in the Constitution allows for personal charity or for personal welfare. Those who mix church and state have no understanding of the role of either. Congress is forbidden to legislate religion. If Congress can't tell a Church what to do, it certainly cannot create a church of its own. That would require it to legislate doctrines, which is expressly forbidden.

Read how taxes are to be raised. Direct taxes are to be apportioned among the States, according to their population, not according to their wealth. That means a FLAT TAX where everyone pays the same rate. There is NO redistribution clause in the Constitution. That concept is foisted on us by corrupt politicians.

Frank,

It could also be called the United Order or the law of consecration. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young had no qualms about requiring (yes, requiring) their followers to give up their surplus so that others could have an equal chance (or even a sliver of a chance).

But this shallow letter, as well as most of the comments here, simply ignore the underlying cause of the inequality. It is that those who actually produce the products that create the wealth for business owners are paid a nominal wage while being denied ownership of the produce of their minds and hands. Brigham Young and his fellows railed against this system. Oh how far we've come from those days. Now Mormons are world-class, died-in-the-wool capitalists, supportive of the corporate system that is quickly bankrupting this country.

The Roman Empire didn't fall because of free corn. It fell because of invaders (the Vandals) and completely selfish and incompetent emperors who were raised to the purple by their selfish armies. If you could compare this to anything it would be the military industrial complex spending us into bankruptcy.

The Soviet Union fell because of military spending. They too wasted billions in Afghanistan. Perhaps a warning to us???

Argentina's welfare state? When? Argentina failed when they privatized public services, such as water and electricity, and caused crashes.

European Socialism is failing? Huh? Germany, Finland, Denmark, etc all seem to be doing fine. Greece? Has never been an economic power. Spain? Hasn't been relevant in over 200 years.

I suggest the letter writer read a history book instead of living in their conservative fantasy.

Mike Richards, what does the Constitution say about Oligarchy?

When governments fail, the cause is the commercial corruption of the leaders. It matters not the type of government, capitalist governments fail just as often, or more so, than communists governments.

Probably communism would be a good government if it had the proper leaders.

The culture of bees is the most like socialism/communism. I don’t know if bees are happy in their lives, but their model has lasted for hundreds or even thousands of years. Much longer than any human society.

The jungle is the most like capitalism. I would think the predator animals would be happy when successful and well fed, while the prey animals seem to live in fear and have few defenses except for their numbers.

Our world is more like the jungle. The business people , the predators, want the right to take from others because of their strength and cunning. Ordinary people would want to be protected from the predators and thus join in herds, other wise known as societies, collectives, nations.

The plan of the human predators to prevent at all costs the notion of socialism or communism and any grouping of their prey.

Isn't this just rich?

One poster tells us that Latter-day Saints were FORCED to join the United Order and that they were FORCED to share. Which anti-LDS book did he read to find that false information? Then he lectured us using Marxist doctrine to tell us that God intended Karl Marx's philosophy to reign as GOVERNMENT redistributs wealth by taking from those who have and giving to those who have not. Perhaps he should start reading another book, the book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price, particularly chapter 5, where Cain listened to Lucifer as Lucifer told Cain how he would gain Abel's possessions without paying for them or working for them. Times have not changed since Cain and Abel. People still want ownership without risk and without payment.

Another poster asked about "Oligarchy". Perhaps that question would better be answered by George Soros and the other men behind the scenes in this administration, those who tell us that Romney killed a woman (who died from cancer). Ask them where they got the power and the money to spread those lies and misdirect attention from Obama's failures.

Mountanman,

In private giving you, alone, decide how to give. As a donor to a larger private charity, you choose to give to the group, but relinquish some of the decision-making power in favor of efficiency. Public welfare is the choice of the people who vote for the lawmakers.

Most of us apparently prefer the relative efficiency of public welfare supplemented by the other two forms. Group cooperation creates power but does reduce individuality. If that's "coercion," then I'm glad we at least have the right to petition for redress and vote for different leaders.

I'm glad we can do battle with the word instead of the sword over our next direction in national policy.

J Thompson,

I can only assume you are referring to my post, since no one else comes within the same zip code as your complaint. Of course, I didn't use the word "FORCED." I used the word "requiring," which is accurate. Since there were few wealthy individuals in Kirtland, for instance, only a few were required to consecrate all they had. Frederick G. Williams was one. Newel Whitney was another. As was Isaac Morley. A few others balked at the requirement and left the Church. If you want sources, I'd be glad to provide plenty. And these wouldn't be anti-LDS books, but well-researched volumes by LDS scholars.

And if you're interested in reading a little Marxist philosophy, try the editorial written probably by George Q. Cannon and published in the Deseret News on May 23, 1868, titled "Labor and Capital—Employers and Employed," or the 1875 Apostolic Circular signed by Brigham Young and 13 other members of the First Presidency and the Twelve, decrying "the monstrous power which this accumulation of wealth gives to a few individuals and a few powerful corporations."

I redistribute my wealth every day. I do it when I buy groceries, gas, or clothing. I do it when I pay my electric, water, and phone bills. I do it when I take my family out to dinner or a movie.

I like to provide lots of employment opportunities to individuals and businesses that work hard to produce a good or service that I like.

Yes, we need essential government services that I would not normally pay for without taxation but in my opinion 10% of my money should be more than enough to cover the basics (you know, the stuff in the Constitution).

It always amazes me how some people think that taking another $1 (or $100, or $100,000) from me and letting some politician spend it instead of me, will "stimulate the economy", "grow jobs", or "see that it is spent wisely" any better than I would. After all, I earned it, right?

@Nonconlib,

No one, i.e. NOBODY, has ever been REQUIRED to contribute to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. NOBODY. NEVER. Not in Kirkland. Not in Nauvoo. Not in Salt Lake City. Not in any city anywhere in the world.

EVERYBODY who entered into the United Order did so without compulsion, just as everybody who receives a temple recommend today decides for himself/herself whether they want to abide the rules that make that recommend possible.

Saying anything different is a total lie.

The Prophet, Ezra Taft Benson, said, "Communism introduced into the world a substitute for true religion. It is a counterfeit of the gospel plan. The false prophets of Communism predict a utopian society. This, they proclaim, will only be brought about as capitalism and free enterprise are overthrown, private property abolished, the family as a social unit eliminated, all classes abolished, all governments overthrown, and a communal ownership of property in a classless, stateless society established. . . I have seen the Soviet Union, under its godless leaders, spread its ideology throughout the world. Every stratagem is used—trade, war, revolution, violence, hate, detente, and immorality—to accomplish its purposes."

Without the socialistic practice of public funding of education
or all, we would all be less well off. Sociali like capitalism isn' t always
good or .. always bad. We need just the right amount of each.

This is why the founders gave congress the power to tax to promote
the general welfare.

And what should the massive shift of wealth ownership from lower income levels to higher (which has happened massively the last 30 years), be called?