Comments about ‘Voter ID laws mirror what is required for many things in society’

Return to article »

Published: Wednesday, Aug. 15 2012 3:39 a.m. MDT

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

I get it. It makes complete logical sense that one should have an ID to vote.

But,at least we should be honest about why this is now a hot button issue.

This is about political advantage and has absolutely nothing to do with correcting voter fraud.

You can spin it how you want to make it look better, but at the end of the day, the GOP wants to restrict those who vote DEM and the DEMS want to get them to the polls.

Plain and simple.

This is what makes politics SLEAZY.

Stephen Kent Ehat
Lindon, UT

Texas should print 3.0 million absentee ballots, mail 1.5 million to Mexico City for random distribution and 1.5 million to Beijing for random distribution (each accompanied by a self-addressed, postage-pre-paid envelope), and request that the non-American citizen recipients thereof cast their votes thereon, and mail them back in a timely fashion.

That act alone would focus the issue, one would suppose. Even people who otherwise disdain voter ID laws themselves might even wonder how it is that Texas does not understand the definition of the word "citizen."

Indeed.

Midvaliean
MIDVALE, UT

Personally I'm tired of these ID laws. For alcohol the spirit of the law has been ruined. I have a full grey bread and I get ID'd for a beer at the PUB in trolley square. I don't have my ID, I get denied, despite the fact I'm clearly late 30s early 40s. So the law isn't be 21, the law is HAVE A ID. I don't like this trend. The trend will end with a RFID chip or a barcode.

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

Deseret News editors,

Where is the evidence - I mean actual, documented evidence - that fraudulent voting is a statistically significant problem in our elections?

Doesn't it strike you as more than a little suspicious that the sudden urgency of voter ID laws emerged after a Democrat won the presidency, and the folks demanding that these laws take effect >>before this November's election

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

Blue,
a dem won the presidency in 1996, 1992, 1964, 1960 and so on back to our 3rd president, Thomas Jefferson. Actually, the push for voter ID laws did not come until after the repubs won the house in 2010.

There are 160 counties across the country with more registered voters than residents. I guess you see no problem with that?

Would you rather we have a fraudulent election BEFORE we do something about it?

I guess if you are traversing a high mountain road, the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff would give you more comfort than a guardrail at the top.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

it's telling how it's easier to buy guns than to vote. Amazing.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: ". . . spin it how you want . . . the GOP wants to restrict those who vote DEM and the DEMS want to get them to the polls."

Yeah -- Republicans want to restrict those that vote to those legally entitled to vote.

Democrats, on the other hand, want to get people to the polls to "vote early, vote often" for Democrats -- even if they're not lawfully entitled to vote.

It's called cheating.

And, by the amount of time, effort, money, and political capital Democrats are investing to enable cheating, it's clear they have embraced it as an important 2012 campaign strategy.

Noodlekaboodle
Salt Lake City, UT

What about absentee ballots? Why aren't we worried about voter ID for those? Oh, it's because republicans utilize absentee ballots more than democrats? Even though, according to former WSJ columnist John Fund(not a liberal) admits it is a much more serious problem than voter fraud at the polls. What about Mike Turzai's declaration that voter ID laws will give Mitt Romney a victory in PA? Oh it has nothing to do with politics right?

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

All adult people subject to the laws of a specific government should have a say, a vote, in the operation of that government. This includes Americans, immigrants, permanent and long time visitors, and even illegal immigrants.

Our Constitution seems to say that “people” have the right to control their government and does not limit the notion to specific people.

Government should take responsibility and exercise the authority to make sure that each and every eligible voter, who wishes to do so, has the opportunity, the means, and the facility to vote.

If anything is necessary that the voter must possess, the government should be proactive in satisfying that need. Even to the extent of going out to the prospective voter to take care of his need.

There should be no fees, unusual restrictions, or qualifications other than being an adult in the venue.

Alliance for a Better UTAH
MIDVALE, UT

The authors throw up the usual red herrings - non-existent voter fraud and the simplistic argument "what's wrong with presenting an ID". The answer, as usual, is in the details. There is a large population - generally elderly and minorities - that doesn't have the ID that many states require (Utah is fairly reasonable in its ID laws and Salt Lake County is particularly flexible). Despite the authors' suggestion that "you need it to fly, why not to vote," this simply isn't true. The TSA itself says that in the absence of ID, "If passengers are willing to provide additional information, we have other means of substantiating someone’s identity, like using publicly available databases." This is the equivalent of a meaningful provisional ballot. Another bizarre result of these laws can be found in Georgia, simply as an example, where a state university issued ID counts but a private university issued ID does not. For a non-driving college student, why should that be the case even if it doesn't specifically target Democrats or Republicans? The truth is that these laws are not about eliminating fraud but are about discrimination - some better disguised than others.

ThatsSoUtah
Fredericksburg, VA

@procuradorfiscal

"And, by the amount of time, effort, money, and political capital Democrats are investing to enable cheating, it's clear they have embraced it as an important 2012 campaign strategy."

The Democrats are the ones cheating by wanting to make sure it's easy to vote. What do you call when Ohio is only keeping polls open late in Republican districts, but not Democrat ones?

Why is it suddenly becoming a big deal to have an ID to vote? Shouldn't the required ID be part of the registration process instead? Other than that, only a very basic proof of id should be required to actually vote. Utility bill, bank statement, birth certificate, etc.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: ". . . only a very basic proof of id should be required to actually vote."

Yeah -- otherwise it would be too hard to fake.

And, that would really inconvenience the A.C.O.R.N. tactic of hauling busloads of unregistered voters from poll to poll to influence close races in battleground states.

Voice of Reason
Layton, UT

If the only liberal argument against voter ID laws is that it "doesn't happen that often", then we've already won. How much voter fraud is acceptable for liberals until it's "enough" to do something about it? The reality is, you don't always need "a lot" of voter fraud to be the difference in an election...Florida 2000 is Exhibit A. We need to know that the people voting in our elections have the legal right to do so. Period.

SO who's the more politically motivated - those who want a law that increases fairness, or those who fight against that law? The left is far more politically motivated here than the right is, since they know very well that illegal voters are far more likely to vote Democrat. The big dirty secret is that the left doesn't want to dial down that beneficial illegal voting, if not outright encourage it.

George
Bronx, NY

So two sentences in to the piece and they have already used false information to support their claims. You are actually not required by law to have an ID to board a plane. When you start with a false premise in your first two sentences I stop reading but thanks.

@procuradorfiscal
even the GOP lawyers could only find about 300 cases of voter fraud out of more then 250 million of votes cast in the past ten years hardly the wide spread conspiracy that you make it out to be.

john mclane
Salt Lake City, UT

procuradorfiscal:
"And, that would really inconvenience the A.C.O.R.N. tactic of hauling busloads of unregistered voters from poll to poll to influence close races in battleground states."

[citation needed]

Seriously, I'd love to see a reputable source for this information, and I don't mean unsourced or anonymous claims on someone's blog. If it's happening as frequently as Republicans claim it is, there must be hundreds, if not thousands, of documented cases by now.

According to a study released 12 August 2012:
"A News21 analysis of 2,068 alleged election-fraud cases since 2000 shows that while fraud has occurred, the rate is infinitesimal, and in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tough voter ID laws, is virtually non-existent.
"Analysis of the resulting comprehensive News21 election fraud database turned up 10 cases of voter impersonation. With 146 million registered voters in the US..., those 10 cases represent one out of about every 15 million prospective voters."

Organized efforts to perpetrate voter fraud simply don't happen, and, according to the available data, neither do individual efforts for voter fraud.

john mclane
Salt Lake City, UT

Voice of Reason:
"If the only liberal argument against voter ID laws is that it 'doesn't happen that often'..."

The argument isn't "it doesn't happen that often," the argument is "it doesn't happen."

"illegal voters are far more likely to vote Democrat."
[citation needed]

Again, if an exhaustive search (referenced in my previous post) turned up only 10 cases voter impersonation in the past 12 years, how could you possibly support this assertion? The answer, of course, is you can't. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant against liberals, right?

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "The truth is that these laws are not about eliminating fraud but are about discrimination - some better disguised than others."

No, the truth is that Democrats -- unknown to have EVER taken on a cause that won't benefit them, politically -- believe that requiring people that cast votes to be lawful voters will hurt them in the upcoming election.

Voter ID laws make it harder to vote if one is not a lawful voter.

No other reason would justify them spending the sums they're spending on this issue.

Voice of Reason
Layton, UT

2009: Al Franken finally "wins" the 2008 Minnesota Senate race by 312 votes. Later it was found that 1,099 felons - ineligible to vote - voted illegally. It's widely established that felons overwlhelmingly go Democrat by 86-97% on average. Over 240 people have been convicted or are awaiting trail for voter fraud...just in that single Minnesota race. In some precincts, more votes were cast than there were registered voters. If a lawful, fairly applied voter ID law had been in place, it's a virtual certainty that the person who actually won in reality, Norm Coleman, would be sitting in the Senate right now instead of Franken.

Later, Franken's single vote pushed ObamaCare over the top of a GOP filibuster, effectively making it law. So don't try and tell anyone who's well-informed that voter ID laws are "unnecessary". Their absence put the man with less votes in the Senate, and literally allowed ObamaCare to happen.

And it's so widely accepted by both sides that minorities, Latinos and illegal immigrants vote overwhelmingly Democrat that your challenge to "support (my) assertion" (seriously!?) really doesn't merit a response.

ThatsSoUtah
Fredericksburg, VA

@Voice of Reason
"How much voter fraud is acceptable for liberals until it's "enough" to do something about it?"

Would you be willing to sacrifice the votes of thousands of legal voters without state issued ID in order to prevent 100 fraudulent votes?

@procuradorfiscal
I notice you ignored the other part of my previous post in relation to Ohio keeping longer polling hours for republican districts than democrat ones. How does one justify that?

"Voter ID laws make it harder to vote if one is not a lawful voter."

There are reasons a registered voter would not have a state issued ID. Once someone loses the ability to drive, they don't need an ID very often. Forcing someone with limited mobility to go sit at the dmv for hours to get an ID is an excessive burden. With such incredibly small numbers of confirmed voter fraud, it seems this type of legislation is unnecessary and only serves to prevent valid voters from casting their vote.

The benefit simply does not outweigh the cost.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

George,

when was the last time you boarded a commercial flight?

how can you get through TSA WITHOUT ID?

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments