Comments about ‘Mormon apologists gather, but not to apologize’

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Published: Thursday, Aug. 2 2012 5:00 a.m. MDT

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Tornogal
LITTLE ROCK, AR

"I have come to believe that it is the tendency for many members of the Church who spend a great deal of time in academic research to begin to judge the Church, its doctrine, organization, and leadership, present and past, by the principles of their own profession.... In my mind it ought to be the other way around...."

"Your objective should be that they will see the hand of the Lord in every hour and every moment of the Church from its beginning till now....there is no such thing as an accurate or objective history of the Church which ignores the Spirit.... Church history can be so interesting and so inspiring as to be a very powerful tool indeed for building faith. If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a faith destroyer..."

"Some things that are true are not very useful."

-- Boyd K. Packer --

ute alumni
Tengoku, UT

LValfre
if you don't believe, fine. you might consider getting a life and quit being so absorbed with mormons.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Don't apologise. Just recognise you've bought into the story on faith. That's your explanation. But accept that, just because you've bought in does not mean anyone else need also do so. It's faith, not science. You're in it on your own.

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: Daniel Peterson, professor of Islamic Studies, "Mormonism, with its radical doctrine of a persistent soul that existed before mortal life."
Abrahamic Faiths disagree: Islamic views Qur'anic verses explicitly state that God created man, the heavens and the earth, out of nothing.

Judaism,(Genesis 1:1 Septuagint), In the beginning God made=(epoinsen, Grk."caused to be")heaven and earth . 2 Maccabees (a book written in Koine Greek in the same sphere of Hellenised Judaism of Alexandria, expresses a similar idea: "I beseech thee, my son, look upon the heaven and the earth, and all that is therein, and consider that God made them of things that were not; and so was mankind made likewise." (2 Maccabees 7:28, KJV)

Christian,(John 1:1),In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made*= (Grk.1096 ginomai, receive being); without him nothing was made*that has been made*.

For in him we live and move and have our Being...(Acts 17:28)Creation is dependent on God for its very existence

ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

Many of the comments here accuse LDS Church apologists of ignoring on downplaying evidence that contradicts their beliefs. But couldn't the same thing be said about any group of apologists?

Christian apologists say the Bible has been proven to be true with concrete, irrefutable evidence. True, the cities mentioned in the New Testament have been proven to be correct, but does that prove Jesus existed and performed miracles? Have Christian apologists brought forth evidence of how Moses divided the Red Sea and the children of Israel walked across on dry ground? What wilderness did the wonder in for 40 years and where was the Garden of Eden?

Atheist apologists say they've proven there is no God in the universe with concrete, irrefutable evidence. Really? Have they searched the entire universe? If so, what's on the other side? And why do atheists dismiss any findings which don't fit exactly with evolution?

LValfre
CHICAGO, IL

@ute alumni

"LValfre
if you don't believe, fine. you might consider getting a life and quit being so absorbed with mormons."

You might consider getting a life and absorbing reality.

zoar63
Mesa, AZ

It is interesting there is so much Church history which is documented and can be studied but the same cannot be said for the beginnings of ancient Christianity. Historical Christianity is well documented but events that took place when Christ was born until his death, there is not a lot of reliable evidence to go on. For instance can we authenticate the authors who wrote the gospels are there any manuscripts that can be dated to the period in question that have recorded Christ ’teachings? A lot of the records the ancient Christians kept were destroyed during the Roman persecutions. The New Testament manuscripts can only be dated to the Third century A.D. at the earliest. If you were a believing Christian you would have to have a lot of faith to believe in it because that is all there is if you are looking for something more substantial to verify it.
The book of Mormon gives a warning about being caught up in too much learning. 2Ne 9:28-29

A man will never find God by relying on his own wisdom or the knowledge of the world.

zoar63
Mesa, AZ

@LValfre
"Native American's are of Asian descent .... random comment but unbiased DNA evidence leads to this."

The scientists might want to check another gene pool. According to the Old Testament Joseph married an Egyptian woman who bore him two sons. The Book of Mormon says Lehi, who was a descendant of Joseph fled Jerusalem prior to the Babylonian invasion.

The surviving Jews were dispersed throughout the Babylonian Empire and their DNA was mingled with their captors. Lehi was a descendant of Manasseh, one of the sons of Joseph. His family escaped the captivity. Test for Egyptian DNA for both Asians and Native Americans.

DistantThunder
Vincentown, NJ

LDS people live 7-10 years longer than the average American. I'll start with that and go from there.

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: zoar63The book of Mormon gives a warning about being caught up in too much learning. 2Ne 9:28-29.True,
The KJV/3Nephi Sermon on the Mount. LDS Scholar Dr. Larson finds 12 examples where JS copied the 1769 KJV errors.
“A great portion of 3 Nephi seems to be "borrowed and lifted" from the KJV Bible. Larson found that 3 Nephi holds exactly the same sort of errors that are unique to the 1769 version of the KJV Bible Joseph Smith owned.”

Stan Larson, The MS discoveries since the KJV have provided a much better understanding of the Sermon on the Mount. Greek MS 200 A.D. thru Latin, Syriac, Coptic and patristic early support, which leads to the original text. These are earlier and better texts of Matthews Sermon on the Mount. There is unanimity support by modern scholars, but The BoM never takes us to a verifiable text in antiquity..

JS,”In the very beginning the bible shows there is a plurality of Gods."(Hof C v. 6 p.476)Wrong.

Genesis 1:1 Greek Septuagint In the beginning God (*o Theos,Grk. 2316). Clearly God, singular. *Nominative singular article.

SteveDensleyJr
American Fork, UT

Shelama wrote: "There is nothing about the Bible that compels or even strongly argues for it being anything other than man-made. Lynch and Densely will both admit that the common body of evidence regarding the BoA, for instance, is not strong enough, either." Shelama is unclear on what is meant by the evidence compelling or being strong enough to justify belief that the Bible and Book of Abraham are more than mere creations of the human mind. If Shelama means to say that there is no way to compel faith in God, I agree. But if Shelama means that I do not believe there is sufficient evidence to justify a rational belief in the scriptures, I will admit no such thing. I believe the Bible and the Book of Abraham to both be the word of God that came to us through prophets. I believe the evidence is strong enough on both accounts to justify my belief or such a belief in anyone else who cares to consider the evidence, which includes, but is not limited to, the evidence of a personal spiritual witness.

fkratz
Portland, OR

Distant Thunder- Excellent post. Now, finally, a reason to join the CJCLDS.

zoar63
Mesa, AZ

@sharrona

"Genesis 1:1 Greek Septuagint In the beginning God (*o Theos,Grk. 2316). Clearly God, singular. *Nominative singular article."

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness Gen 1:26

The words US and OUR (plural) who is the us and our that is referred to?

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

Christians of diverse denominations and sects often gather in small groups in a church or a home for a regular Bible study. Are they truly trying to learn and explore? Or are they just looking to find reinforcement for what they already believe? The answer may vary from one person to the next.

What I sense in the disciplined application of logic and reason to matters of faith is the longing to discover a rational basis for faith. In some religious cultures, that's playing with fire. We do it nonetheless because the need to know things is one of the things that makes us human. If the glory of God is intelligence, as Joseph Smith proclaimed, we'll continue doing it regardless of what warnings and admonitions about the dangers of secularism we hear from the pulpit.

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