per Mike Richards (8/1 5:15 p.m)So? Freedom tastes like chicken?
If I want substandard poultry I go to KFC.The
aforementioned establishment no longer offers Potato Salad as a side. That, if
anything, is worthy of a protest.per Rifleman (8:02 a.m. Aug. 2,
2012)"The liberals would like to tinker with the 1st Amendment
like Chicago does with the 2nd Amendment. Isn't that the city where Obama
got his education."Obama is Ivy league educated just like Mitt,
Clinton, & the Bushes.
As I said elsewhere... "Who really cares about the protest or the owners
cause? The food isn't that good and that is what matters."re: Screwdriver 9:05 a.m. Aug. 2, 2012Thats funny! But, would it
you like it a family values combo meal...loaded w/ trans fats, sugar,
Sorry that first sentence should read, "So by George using his free speech
to protest what Cathy said he is anti free speech?" yes I do see the irony
of the next sentence. sometimes my brain likes to get laughs at my expense.
@ute alumniSo by George using his free speech to protest what Cahty
said makes he is anti free speech? how does that even begin to make sense?
Georges protest in no way would interfere with Cathy's ability to continue
to speak out and your claims otherwise are nothing but a sad attempt to deflect
counter arguments against what you know is an untenable position.
What if a CEO of a corporation said he does not believe black and white people
should marry each other? Would you still say the mayors were attacking the
CEO's first amendment rights? I think it's worth
mentioning that the definition of traditional marriage changes over the time.
It was not long ago, for example, that traditional marriage was defined as
marriage between a man and woman of the same race. It used to be the case that
traditional marriage defined women as property, and of course traditional
marriage used to permit one man marrying more than one woman.At any
rate, we are not a theocracy. If your religion tells you that marriage is only
between a man and woman, that's is your right to believe it, but it is not
your right to impose your beliefs on others who believe same sex marriage should
No one's freedom of religion or speech was violated. Freedom of speech
doesn't mean freedom from criticism. People chose not to buy their food
because of what they said. People chose to disagree publicly with their founder
which they are also free to do. No one prevented you from buying
your sandwich. ChikfilA made lots of money. Good for them.
georg,hustle to the kiss in. it is obvious that you side with anti free
@ute alumni FYIBrookline, MA where Barney Frank lives has no
Mayor. Mayor Menino is the Mayor of Boston, MA.
We have the most generous government in history, and now every group of people
are trying to find entitlements, by playing the bigot card.This is
all about qualifying for some kind of handout, not the unfairness of
marriage.Wish I'm wrong, but we're transforming into a
nation of beggars, and whiners. Just immature, and pathetic.
@L white your right the article is about chick fil a and Mike
attempted to falsely tie Obama to the controversy, kind of the definition of
bearing false witness. Cathy was attacked by two mayors, hardly the
same as "our government" Do you have and evidence to support your
assertions that Obama had anything to do with the mayors comments or are you
also going to bear false witness? Making false and unsupported accusations falls
well outside Christian values that you claim to be supporting.
@l whit @L White your right this article is about the two mayor
inappropriate use of their postiton to speak out against chick fil Obama.
However, President Obama and Senator Reid had nothing to do with this incident.
If you, j and mike bring them into the conversation in what is clearly an
attempt to link them to this situation then other also have the right to respond
to those statements including pointing out that you maybe bearing false
witness.Let me be clear, I absolutely agree that these two mayors
where wrong to have acted the way they did. I also think if you look back at
this and other threads on chck fil a you will plainly see that no one is
defending what these two mayors did, they clearly where out of bounds.If you
look outside the DN you will also see the ACLU came to chickfils defense. As a side note claiming that free speech is absolute is a bit of an
extreme statement. People do not have the right to use free speech to yell fire
in a crowded theater or threaten to murder or harm others for instance.
@Milhouse:If it is a meaningless fight that is going nowhere, as you
suggest, then it shouldn't matter where you eat, and what statement you
might be making by eating there. To me, Chick-Fil-a rocks!
Mike, nobody has denied Cathy anything nor censored him. When a permit is
actually denied then you can make that argument. Try to not false witness.Mayors can have all the opinions they want, they can even say it out
loud. Again, when they actually deny Chick-fil-a a permit, they will
loose in court withing a few days because nobody backs them in doing it.Why don't you join liberals in supporting Muslim Mosques getting
thier permits? No, I don't agree with a lot of Muslim stances on things -
but that's no reason to deny them equal rights.I don't
agree with the mega-church down the street. Did I seek to deny them a building
Mr. George,The article is about Chick-fil-A and free speech, not
about posters or the way that they choose to worship.Mr. Cathy was
attacked by our government and threatened by Rahm Emanuel, who is Mr.
Obama's former Chief of Staff. You can bet that a Chicago Politician would
talk to the Chicago Politician sitting in the White House before broadcast his
hatred of free speech to the nation.And, look at the remarks by Mr.
Reid who told us that Mr. Romney didn't pay taxes for ten years. Is that
not an attack on Mr. Romney? Reid demands that Romney bow down before him and
prove that he paid taxes. Isn't Mr. Reid using the power of his Senate
position against the private citizen who will be sitting in the White House
after November's election?That's what this attack on Mr.
Cathy is all about. Those attacks from people who hold offices in government
are using the authority of their office to intimidate, to harass, to threaten
anyone who does not fall into line behind them.This is a black or
white issue. Free speech is an absolute.
@j thomas Actually Mike I think it is pretty clear that you have
attempted to bring in outside arguments to try to justify your false witness
against Obama rather then admit he had nothing to do with chick fil a. As to not
allowing someone to respond trying to play the victim when no one has told you
that you do not have the right to respond is a poor counterargument meant to
@Mike Richards My I suggest humility instead of false pride and more
false witness. Maybe it is best to turn your gaze inward and then to God.
Tolstoy,Are you claiming that when someone is accused of
"bearing false witness", that he cannot respond? Are you claiming that
Obama does not use the same tactics as those three mayors? Are you claiming
that unless Obama specifically said something publicly about Mr. Cathy that
nothing else that Obama has said or written or signed that limits the freedom to
speak out against the government should be used as a source to substantiate a
claim that Obama has and does suppress free speech?Isn't this
what this whole argument is about? Isn't the right of every citizen in
this country to be free to express his views on ANY subject without fear of
government sanctions or threats the root of this discussion?My.
Cathy stated his personal opinion on marriage. Three mayors used the power of
their offices to censor him and to threaten him. Pretending that
Obama does not use those same tactics when you can EASILY find proof that he
does IS germane to this topic.Government is PROHIBITED from doing
what it is doing. Some people think that Mr. Cathy should only say things that
please them. They don't understand America.
@mike richards From reading your post I would think it is safe to
assume that the reason the DN denied your comment was because it was off topic.
What do any of your claims have to do with this incident with chick fil a? To claim Obama approved because he did not say anything would mean that
any public official that did not make a public pronouncement against these two
mayors also approved of it and as far as I know few if any public office holders
did. Are you really saying most if not all republican office holders agreed with
these two mayors actions?
Tolstoy,You're going to have to do your own homework about
Obama. The Deseret News denied my comment about Obama's usurpation of free
speech. I did not use a URL. I cited the date of the Executive Order and I used
direct attribution of the quotes. Whatever rule I broke is unclear, but the
information you want is easily found. You should also read the
Senate bill where Hatch gave the President power to lock anyone up for any
length of time without giving them access to an attorney or ever taking them to
trial. Obama signed that bill. Article 1, Section 9 only extends that power
"in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion".Mr. Cathy used his free
speech rights. Government officials used their offices to squelch him. They
used non-existent authority to intimidate and to threaten. Rahn Emanuel was both
student and teacher to Obama. Both he and Obama fully believe in "Chicago
style" politics - no matter what they say. Emanuel proved it in his speech
against Mr. Cathy.Obama approved it by remaining silent.
Now I feel that I cannot eat at Chick-fil-A, or avoid doing so, without making a
political statement. Can't a man get a chicken sandwich without taking
sides in a meaningless mudfight?I say meaningless because CfA
isn't actually discriminating against employees or customers, and because
no city would be able to succeed in preventing the entry of CfA while
simultaneously permitting KFC, McD's or any other purveyor of greasy food.
No one is going to succeed in taking away CfA's "right" to say
whatever they want, even if they are hateful/bigoted. If they start firing gay
employees or refusing to serve gay customers, then we have a legal problem.
Until then, those who disagree can eat elsewhere. I can't believe this had
a shelf life of more than twenty minutes.But living in Atlanta, I
can no longer just go eat. If I eat at CfA, I will be making a statement that
I'm not comfortable making. If I go somewhere else, same story. Maybe
I'll lose a couple of pounds through eating at home.
@VSTI think maybe you need to reread my post I did not use the term
"wing nut" but thanks. Intentionally misrepresenting what other say and
do seems be becoming a habit for some on these threads.
You can get a pro-free-speech sandwich anywhere. I doubt that conservatives are
really thinking of that when they drive 45 min and wait in line for 2 hours.It's what Chick-fil-a is saying that they like isn't it. So it's not a free speech sandwich is it?
GLAAD Kiss-in-Day at Chick-fil-a??? Not in the store, dudes. It's their
property and if they want to kick you to the curb, that's their right. Your
right is to shop there or not, not disturb this business and disturb the people
choosing to eat there.
@mike richards @mike Richards So what exactly do you hope to accomplish by
falsely lumping Obama in with the mayors? Do you really think such false
assertions paint your arguments in a more positive light? The mayors where wrong
to attempt to use their office the way they did but it does not justify you
bearing false witness against Obama.
We do most definitely do support traditional marriage. But my family's
interest in eating at Chick-fil-a was mostly in support of the right of a person
or business to express their opinion, and the right to have government not
involved in that. Government as overstepped it's boundaries so much, in so
many places, it's hard to know what to do, except get out and vote
conservative in November. It was nice to go to Chick-fil-a yesterday to support
this, and see so many others doing the same. The lines were very long. All were
polite, all were patient. It makes me smile when I see some posts, I am
thinking mainly of some from the Washington Post, but has been turned up here
as well, that have turned this into an argument bashing people for eating fast
food. Oh wait. Now I remember. Liberals are the ones who were limiting the soda
intake in New York.
The good people of America quietly gathered in Chick-fil-A restaurants all over
America to show Mr. Cathy that they support his right to speak freely about his
personal beliefs without government officials threatening him or his business
ventures.The good people of America silently sent a message to
Obama, Rahm Emanuel, Edwin M. Lee, and Thomas Menino that they would NOT allow
them or any other official to misuse the authority of government office.The good people of America showed dignity as they silently protested the
"change" that has come on America.Yesterday, a lot of people
woke up to the need to take a stand. They chose to support a fellow America who
spoke his mind. By doing that, they completely rejected the message coming from
Its warms my heart to see the far right finally come together with the ACLU on a
@RanchHand "at the same time you go out of your way to DENY FREEDOM TO GLBT
COUPLES."Not true. They have the same freedoms I have. All of
us have freedom of speech. None of us are sanctioned by the state to enter into
Uhhhh, I had chicken yesterday. Anybody know where I can get an anti-gay-rights
So conservatives are BUYcotting Chick-fil-a. Brilliant. Eat a stick of butter
too.Meanwhile democrats are telling Cathy to, "shut up and
sing" while burning chicken sandwiches in the parking lot. No,
that was the Dixie Chicks being boycotted and intimidated by conservatives.
Re: RanchHand Huntsville, UT"It's really amazing that all of you
conservatives will jump out of your way to spend a few dollars to support YOUR
own freedom ...."The 1st Amendment protects YOUR right to free
speech EQUALLY with everybody else's. What you observed yesterday was
support for that right, and disgust with those who would trample with your right
to free speech.The liberals would like to tinker with the 1st
Amendment like Chicago does with the 2nd Amendment. Isn't that the city
where Obama got his education.
America rose up "en masse" to support our right to speak without the
government threatening us. Anyone who drove past a Chick-fil-A restaurant could
clearly see entire families standing together, quietly, spending an hour or more
waiting to be served as they showed Mr. Cathy that they supported HIS RIGHT TO
SPEAK.Those of us who are fed up with government will not forget in
November what the extreme left told America, i.e. to shut up or face government
sanctions for speaking.Each day that passes brings more clarity to
Obama's "change" agenda. He's told us that he will cripple
our economy by taking away all incentive to be successful, i.e. tax the rich.He has told us that somebody else was responsible for our success, but
he refused to take responsibility for all the businesses that failed who had all
of those "advantages".He supports same-sex sex in defiance
to the Defense of Marriage Act.We have a clear choice in this
year's election.Wednesday was an excellent barometer of how
Americans will vote, they will vote for FREEDOM from Obama's
Children acting like little children on both sides.So if this was the
owner of R.J. Reynolds espousing his dislike of gays.I guess you guys
would all start smokin'... genius. King's court is dead on, Utah
uses the same moral mentality to deny businesses the right to operate all the
time.Where were you Guys while...A federal judge agreed on
Wednesday that Muslims in Tennessee who have been trying for months to get a
permit to use their new mosque should be allowed to worship there in time for
Ramadan, which begins on Thursday.For two years, construction of the
12,000-square-foot center has been a heated issue in Murfreesboro, a city of
110,000 people about 30 miles from Nashville, raising concerns about anti-Muslim
sentiment.Talk about 1st amendment, rights.
It's really amazing that all of you conservatives will jump out of your way
to spend a few dollars to support YOUR own freedom, and at the same time you go
out of your way to DENY FREEDOM TO GLBT COUPLES.And you don't
even recognize the hypocrisy.Jesus was more harsh about hypocrisy
than just about any other sin.
Re: Moderate Salt Lake City, UT"Today's supporters
overreacted."You can't overreact to an attack on our 1st
Amendment right to free speech? What today's supporters did was to explain
the 1st Amendment to the thought police.
People like the mayor of Boston overreacted.Today's supporters
overreacted.Tomorrow, all will be quiet again.Gotta love the
Amercian attention span and "Outrage for a day".
I got my Chick Fil-A today, and it was very good. The nearest one was a 45
minute drive but the experience of entering the most packed, busy fast food
joint I've ever been in (lines snaking out the door, and the drivethrough
line was so long it was causing traffic jams) made my day. Let free speech and
freedom of religion reign!
It is interesting that the first amendment is being used here as a defense on
this matter because it can be flipped around as well. I agree that local
governments shouldn't ban restaurants just because of the beliefs of the
owner no matter the moral nature, but in reality this happens in Utah fairly
often. Businesses are often driven to close their doors or locate to certain
sections of cities. Hookah bars, smoke shops, pubs, tattoo shops,
sexual-oriented business, etc are often discriminated against and like
Chick-fil-A, cite their first amendment rights to operate where they please.
Now I disagree with the values espoused by the owners of sexual oriented
businesses, pubs, hookah bars, and even gas stations that sell alcohol, but I do
understand that they do have a right to operate, even if it is in an industrial
part of town, but the same could be said for Chick-fil-A. While they do have a
right to operate their business, the community also has a right to relegate it
to a part of town where espoused values contrary to the community can be kept
out of sight.
For elected government officials to think that they have a right to deny a
company the opportunity of doing business within their jurisdictions when the
company and it's president have done nothing illegal other than to express
support for traditional marriage is truly scary. I think they should all be
kicked out of office for attempting to enforce their unconstitutional
discrimination. This isn't Nazi Germany.
Re: Ridgely Magna, UT"So if this protest was purely about protecting
the Freedom of Religious Speech ...."The 1st Amendment
doesn't specify "freedom of religious speech". It just prohibits a
public official in Chicago from denying a building permit because he/she
disagrees with the opinion of a business owner.Fortunately the
majority of Utahns agree with the opinion of the Chick-fil-A owner.By-the-way, traditional marriages can be performed by any judge, and
don't have to be linked with any religion.
So if this protest was purely about protecting the Freedom of Religious Speech
and not just anti-gay bias, does that mean you will all support the Repeal of
Utah's Amendment Three which would finally allow Utah's gay and
lesbian couples to have Civil Unions instead of religious "Marriage"?If not..why not?
The fact that Mr Cathy's comments have turned into this media firestorm
speaks volumes about how far this country has deteriorated in the past 40 years.
How quickly the so-called champions of love, tolerance, and kumbaya will turn on
someone that dares to express a different view than their own! And let's
examine the "horrible" things said by Mr. Cathy1) We support the
family (Holy crap! How dare he!)2) We believe in the biblical view of the
family (Again...who is this monster?)3) We give thanks we're still
married to our first wife (clearly offensive to potential 2nd & 3rd wives
everywhere) Hopefully the cows will soon be posting a new message,
"Eat mor libruls" So glad people are supporting Chick-fil-A
in droves. Go Chick-fil-A!!
My wife and I are enjoying a delicious meal at Chick-fil-A. The restaurant is
incredibly busy. Free speech was worth the wait.
chicago values?barney frank's mayor?dc mayor? ....... really.
looks like the boycott really caught on.can't wait for their friday
While not a regular Chick-fil-A customer, I made my visit today. Enjoyed the
Chargrilled Chicken, very tasty. Plan to try a Peach Miilkshake tomorrow!