>Redshirt1) Reducing mandates on health insurance companies may reduce
their costs. Maybe insurance premiums go down 20%. I really doubt it, but
let's say you're right. It's still unaffordable for lower income
people, and it would absolutely make it easier for health insurance companies to
not cover people, or to cut off their insurance if they get sick. 2)
Tort reform would reduce doctors malpractice insurance premiums a bit. No
evidence to suggest that it would do anything about the affordability of health
care. Texas tried this--it had little impact on costs, and made health outcomes
worse.3) Selling insurance across state lines, as in, for example, a
national health insurance exchange? A major element in Obamacare.So
you've got one idea that wouldn't have much impact except a negative
one, one idea that's been tried and doesn't work, and Obamacare.
Re: John Charity Spring: "We must return to the Founding principle that a
man must work for his bread, and if he will not work, he will not eat." And
if he does not have enough left for a health savings account he or his loved
ones must die. Right?
To "pragmatistferlife" your friend is a fool. Just because an insurance
company won't pay for something does not mean that you cannot get the care.
Your friend, if he (or she) valued their own life could have paid for the
procedure out of pocket. Most doctors are willing to work with people to pay
for medical procedures over time. My sister took 4 years to pay a doctor for
the birth of a child, why couldn't your friend do the same?Why
would anybody in their right mind leave life and death decisions up to anybody
else?To "marxist" who compelled the good Samaritan to help?
Was it the Jewish government or that person alone who decided to help? The
liberal version of the good Samaritan would have him walk by and inform the
government official in the next town that there was a person who needed help.
Once the government did a cost analysis and formed a committee they would send
out an official to oversee the care of the person. The good Samaritan would
simply be a "Good Taxpayer", taking no initiative of his own to help
"Every person who claims that healthcare is a right should be condemned. No
one has a right to any medical service unless he is willing to earn the money to
pay for it himself." Then the Parable of the Good Samaritan would read
something like this: the Samaritan found the man under severe duress, but
because the man had no sufficient money to pay for aid, the Smmaritan conitnued
on without redering aid.
Red Shirt; specific diseases/or conditionsmortality to cancer 8thcirculatory disease 13threspiratory disease 14thdiabetes
15thinfant mortality 17thmusculorskeletal
13thLots of reasons why but regular and affordable access to health
care is a major contributor. One of my best friends just narrowly escaped death
recently because of a hole in his heart that wasn't fixed because the
procedure was turned down twice by his insurance company. Near death finally
convinced them it was a necessary prodcedure. Insurance companies all ready
have their own death panels. Life and death decisions are made every single day
Re: ". . . calls for 'self-reliance' and 'innovation'
and 'market solutions' are empty headed nonsense."Hmmmm. Illustrative show of disdain for what made America, America.Solutions?First and foremost -- get government out of the business
of promoting medical monopolies. Use its authority to prevent them. Government
regulates every aspect of provision of medical services, from issuing
certificates of public convenience -- without which one may not compete against
existing medical-delivery facilities -- to enforcing the AMA/Big Ed monopoly on
how many students may study medicine and how expensive it will be.Government must stop limiting, even preventing, competition by thousands of
qualified primary health-care providers, PAs, NPs, dentists, even
chiropractors.Government must stop propping up medical monopolies by
cruel price supports and insurance mandates.These solutions will
work, but big government won't implement them.Liberal
politicians learned long ago that cynically driving up medical costs, then
"saving" voters from responsibility to pay them, buys votes at both ends
of the economic spectrum.And, that is, after all, liberals'
primary goal -- buy votes with our money.
To "Eric Samuelsen" here is a simple concise answer to you question.1. Cut the number of of mandates on insurance companies back to 1980
levels. This alone can reduce costs by 20% to 50%.2. Enact tort
reforms to make malpractice more difficult to sue for. People like John Edwards
made millions using junk science while making malpractice insurance for OBGYNs
reach the $300000/yr range.3. Allow companies to create insurance
pools across state lines. The government claims that this is how they can make
it affordable, so it must be legit.To "CHS 85" read my post.
First of all, you can't compare life expectancies from one nation to
another for several reasons. First, the US has a higher number of accidental
deaths than other nations, see "Does the U.S. Lead in Life Expectancy?"
in the WSJ. Next, the US also has a totally different system for counting
births than other nations, this skews our numbers down. For example England
doesn't consider a birth a live birth until 22 weeks gestation. The US
considers anything with a pulse a live birth.I would stay where we
are rather than emulate England.
"you realize that the higher costs and many of the problems with health
insurance are due directly to the government trying to control it. This is what
your liberal friends have given us. Next to banking, health insurance has the
most regulations placed on it."Swing and a miss.Nice
try redshirt!Costs are much higher because... Well.. Watcha gonna do
without health care? The free market has introduced folks from wall
street who are more concerned with fattening their wallets than with health
care. Since the 80s hospitals have been cutting staff, cutting equipment, and
increasing prices not because of regulation but because they can. Finally those
in power figured out how much of a gold mine health care was.As far
as over regulation, are you really suggesting that the 09 collapse of our
banking system was because of over regulation???Seriously???Um, try the opposite. The problem was no one was regulating wall street
and hence the bad investments, the banks "too big to fail" and the
collapse of our system. The Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act,
which repealed the needed safeguards of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 is
what led to that disaster.
"No one has any right to any Medical Services unless he can pay for it
himself" Mr. Spring you should change your handle and take the word
"Charity" out of it. What about the old, the infirm, and children.
Should we put infants to work to earn money for Medical Care? You
Generalize way to much in your decidedly uncharitable comment.
The solution is to go back to a true free-market system. No Tort reform.
Judicial Reform.Not this sham of a system we have let evolve over
the last 45 years.As for the civilized world with all their vaunted
universal healthcare and other entitlement programs...Read the news...these
countries are going broke. They have adopted a model and it is
unsustainable. The direction we are going is exactly opposite of
the direction we need to go in. Life happens. My life plans have
been altered by events. It happens. Nobody is responsible for that...I am. My
dreams of a middle class life was compromised, but, thank God, I live in a land
where I am able to recover. Not to where I was, but to where I am now. There
is much to be responsible for and I will probably die in debt. But...I enjoy my grand kids. I revel in the holidays...all of them...and I
love my country with all its blessings and all its risks. I love my failures
even when I thought I could never overcome them. My life is richer because of
them.That is how I feel.
"I am not saying you are wrong. Just asking for a solution."Ah, the elusive solution. It is much easier to complain and shoot holes in
someone else's solution than to actually propose one for scrutiny.I have asked and asked and the closest thing is tort reform and insurance
across state lines.Like that will make a big dent.Solutions? Anyone?
J Thompson,I agree that the folks you describe gambled and lost.
The problem is that we are funding the casino. Either via taxes or via our
hospital bills. When the gambler who lost goes to the hospital for help, where
do those funds come from? Us. Whether via Obamacare or a Massachusetts
strategy (federal vs. state) the concept of mandated coverage makes sense
because we cannot/will not stop people from getting care. Despite the rhetoric,
most of us simply are not willing to let a father of four (even one who WAS
stupid) die (and possibly leave his family on the public dime).Also,
what about folks who tried to get coverage but could not at a price that would
be reasonable due to pre-existing conditions? Sure, you can get a policy to
cover any condition if you can pay the premiums but even normal, everyday
premiums are high. Rated policies are astronomical. In the case of a young
person (previously covered by their folks) they cannot afford the coverage.
Note that they did not gamble and lose. They never got to play.I am
not saying you are wrong. Just asking for a solution.
@RedShirtYou're right. The status quo is the way we should go.
You've convinced me. As a society, we should just let the poor die, the
middle-class have their health coverage eroded away. We don't want poor
people around us anyway. We should all live in absolute white-knuckle fear our
entire lives that our employers don't drop health coverage and our life
savings are wiped out due to an illness. That's the solution we should
strive for. Your side sure seems to have all the answers. According to the CIA, the US is ranked #50 in life expectancy, right
ahead of Libya but behind Bosnia. That's what we want as a society.
Too many people are too quick to blame insurance companies for their woes. How
many of those "uninsurable" gambled and lost, thinking that they could
put off buying health insurance until they "needed" it? How many of
those people misrepresented their health problems when applying for insurance
and then were "shocked" to find out that they were denied coverage?As a former insurance agent, I've seen it all. People slammed the
door in my face when I offered to sell them insurance, but they called me for a
return visit the day after visiting the doctor and finding out that their
"gamble" was going to cost them big time.The State controls
all insurance policies issued within the State. If people would contact the
State Insurance Commissioner and demand that every insurance company be
obligated to cover, from birth, every person whose parents had continuous
insurance coverage from birth onward, things would change for the honest people,
but gamblers, who take their chances, should pay the full costs. They gambled -
Does Obama have the solution to healthcare? When it would cost me about $900 a
month to be privately insured (if my wife were not employed and her company has
NEGOTIATED a lower price for services), and Obama would TAX me less than $1000
per year for the coverage that really costs $10,800 per year to provide,
who's kidding whom?Does anyone really believe that the
35,000,000 uninsurable and those who have decided to not buy health insurance
will receive all the help that they need for less than $1,000 per year when the
health care industry would charge them ten times as much? The
burden of proof is on Obama. It is his plan. He won't tell us what will
be covered, but he is quick to tell us that he will slash payments by 50% to
doctors and hospitals. Has he bothered to ask those doctors and hospitals
whether they will offer the same services for 50% less? Is he going to enslave
them and force them to work the same hours and to provide the same services for
50% less?Who's the fool here, us, or Obama?
Health care isn't like any other commodity. The most effective way for
insurers to make it work is to deny coverage. And then we all end up paying for
the uninsured anyway. Let's get everyone in the pool. For America, that
will, in itself, be innovative.
To "The Real Maverick" you realize that the higher costs and many of the
problems with health insurance are due directly to the government trying to
control it. This is what your liberal friends have given us. Next to banking,
health insurance has the most regulations placed on it. Don't you find it
ironic that the industries that cause the most problems are also the most
regulated? If we cut regulations back to 1980's levels, you could cut the
cost of insurance by 20% to 50%. The free market has not failed. Thanks to the
free market, we have HSAs which allow young healthy people to save money and get
the minimal care that they need.When will liberals admit that their
attemps to gain power and control of our lives does not work, and causes more
damage in the long term than it does good?
Okay, here's my challenge:Fact: health care is very expensive.
Diagnostic tests, medications, surgery; all very expensive. Ruinously so for
low and middle-income families. People who get good insurance through their
jobs can afford to get sick. People who don't generally can neither afford
to purchase it, or to go without. That reality is not in dispute.So for
those of you who oppose Obamacare, what is your solution? What practical, real
world solution do you offer? No ideology or abstractions. Forget catch
phrases like 'self-reliance and innovation.' Forget scare-mongering
tactics, holding up the irrelevant bogeyman of 'socialized medicine.'
What is your answer? What do you propose that will allow low and middle-income
families to thrive? Because in America, when it's three in the
morning and a baby is really sick, and families have to weigh two utterly
irresponsible choices, either adding debt to a family barely making ends meet,
or not treating a dangerously ill child, when that happens routinely, daily, in
the richest country in the history of the world, that's not okay. That is
not what it means to be an American.
I find it hilarious that repubs rant about the cost of a single payer system...
They're completely oblivious to our own system. Isn't our
"free market" driven system a lot more expensive than the single payer
system and not nearly as effective? Or is having the highest costs
while not insuring everyone and while being denied/dropped coverage not evidence
enough that our system is failing? When will repubs finally admit
that their precious free market system has failed? When 100 million Americans
are uninsured? When we spend 10 times as much as the next country in health care
spending?Guess I shouldn't expect much from the same group of
people who believe that Iraq has WMDs, deny man made global warming, claim that
trickle down economics work, and believe that our President was born in Kenya.
To "pragmatistferlife" have you even read the criteria that is used by
the international community to rank healthcare system?How can the US
rank dead last when they have the highest life expectancy, when accidental death
is factored out. For most cancers the US has the highest survival rates. For
response time between diagnosis and treatment, the US is the best.Tell us, it what ways does the US rank so low? From what I have seen and
read, the US only ranks so low because we don't have universal care, that
is it.To "CHS 85" would you rather have a government person
tell your brother and his family that he can't get any more cancer
treatment? From England's Telegraph we read "Lung cancer victims
denied lifesaving scans" Does death due to lack of funding become easier
when it is somebody elses money?To "Irony Guy" what about
the women in England who were forced to give birth in offices, bathrooms,
elevators, and other locations around a hospital? Is it more civilized to give
poor treatment to people because the public coffers can't afford any
@EJMI'll give you my take and an actual opinion, rather than
another anecdote.I lived under a government-run healthcare system
for 20 years in the US military. The doctors I saw were government employees,
as were the nurses, orderlies, receptionists, etc. When I had my knee operated
on, it was in a government-run hospital on an Army base. The care I received
was excellent. The government can run healthcare effectively. The
military and VA have excellent heath care professionals as well as excellent
facilities. VA medical system has overhead costs also hovering around 3% and is
generally regarded as providing excellent medical coverage for those eligible.
I believe with American ingenuity, we can come up with a health care
system that both shows compassion and meets the needs of everyone, rich or poor.
When I was "subjected" to government-run health care, what I saw was
excellence, pride, and efficiency. It is time to move that direction for all
Re: "Given this massive giveaway to banking I thinkt [sic] there is plenty
of wealth in big capital to fix healthhcare."Therein lies the
problem.All leftists insist there's plenty of money to go
around, since leftist fatcats have learned how to game the system.This leftist crony captitalism is nearly as ruinous as the welfare entitlement
mentality being peddled by leftist pols.But one ruinous leftist
scheme does not justify another.
Twin lights, CHS 85 and Irony guy have each, in their own way, highlighted the
main problems with healthcare in this country. Who should address the issue? The
private sector or public sector? Where does the concept of personal
responsibility come into play when 35% of our nation is said to be obese? Is
obesity genetic or are we fast becoming a lazy,feed our faces nation? What about
pre-existing conditions? Should there be caps on the amounts insurance companies
pay for treatment? Should hospitals be allowed to turn away people who
can't pay? With every answer possible, with both the yes and no
positions, people will say "you are discriminating against" this group
or that group. Not one leader wants to offend anyone, and I do mean anyone. Even
though I disagree with some of the postings on here, such as John Charity
Spring, at least HE is willing to be up front about a point of view. I only wish
our politicians on both sides of the aisle would step up with more concrete
proposals as to addressing the health care issue in our country.
Pre-emptive airstrikes and casting the sick aside to die in the gutter. The
qualifications for "Christian Nation" must be pretty low.
My son and his wife are provident people. They pay their bills, they both are
employed, they are not extravagant in lifestyle. Right now, my son is in
graduate school, getting training that will help him rise in his chosen
profession. Grad school is expensive. They both worked while my
son's wife earned her graduate degree, and now they're both working so
that he can finish his. They have not incurred much debt. But this one year,
they decided they simply could not afford health insurance. They've had it
in the past, but the premiums went up past the point where they could afford it.
So they crossed their fingers, just for this one year.The other night, my
son's wife became very seriously ill. They delayed going to the hospital
as long as they felt they could. Finally, they could wait no longer. That
one trip to the emergency room is going to cost every nickel my son will earn
with his assistantship this fall.They'll pay it back. We'll
help too. But this is wrong. And all these calls for 'self-reliance'
and 'innovation' and 'market solutions' are empty headed
I just read elsewhere in this newspaper about a young woman with melanoma who is
struggling to pay $4000 a month for treatment AFTER insurance. Sick and
disabled, she is trying to make up the difference by begging the public for
help. Nowhere in the civilized world but in the USA are ordinary people reduced
to begging when they become desperately ill. It's an absolute travesty, and
the writer of this letter along with all "conservatives" have no
response but "self reliance," which is just code for "it's your
@John "Charity" Spring"Every person who claims that
healthcare is a right should be condemned. No one has a right to any medical
service unless he is willing to earn the money to pay for it himself."I'll tell that to my cancer-stricken brother who lost his insurance
when his company was restructured. He has now exhausted his savings, even
cashing in his retirement savings. I guess he can just die since he can no
longer afford the very expensive cancer treatments. I hope Mitt
Romney wins in November. I'll give him the same courtesy and patience that
the conservatives have given President Obama to get the country turned around.
I expect that by the end of his four years a new health care plan is in place,
and the economy is running at 100%, unemployment is 2% and gas is under $1.50
Don't like Obamacare? No problem. But please do not talk about personal
responsibility like that is what we had prior. How can anyone claim personal
responsibility unless they are either properly insured or have a minimum of
about $250,000 in a health care escrow?Anyone claiming that they can
take care of their own healthcare is naive. You may look and be healthy -
today. Tomorrow you may have a stroke, heart attack, or one of any number of
illnesses that will change your health future dramatically and permanently. And
yes, this happens to the young. Many cases of bipolar disorder are diagnosed in
young, otherwise healthy adults.Without good insurance or
significant wealth, such illnesses can bankrupt you and put your family firmly
into poverty.Anyone who goes without insurance is playing roulette
with other people's money. Hoping/betting that they will not get sick.
But if they do, they will present themselves to the local hospital as a charity
case (once their money runs out) and then be dependent on either the taxpayers
or other hospital clients to bail them out (because the money to help them does
not drop from the sky).
So I ask is it ok with Republicans that when considering the 17 wealthist
nations America ranks dead last in general health condition, dead last in life
expectency, dead last in pre-mature mortality,and anywhere from dead last to
13th and 14th when considering deaths from specific illnesses. Oh yea..we rank
second in self reported health condition. This is not a system with "some
problems" this is a system that doesn't work. One of the reasons we
got here, 10% or so of the population buy health insurance on their own
(reasonable to think because of costs it's primarily major medical), and
around 15% don't have any insurance. So probably around 25% of our
population doesn't have regular access to health care until it's 1)
too late and 2)enormously expnensive. This is not a problem states
acting independently can solve, they never have. It's a national problem
and will take a national solution. Or stop the constitutional mumbo jumbo and
just man up and say it's ok for for some to live and others to die based on
employment, occupational choices, and station in life.
"America is suffering through an epidemic of crime, addiction, and
immorality."It would be hard to quantify how these are our
greatest challenges. I find it ironic that people have no problem
spending trillions of dollars to "liberate the Iraqi people" but want to
cut services to our poor.Again, Again Again I ask those so opposed
to Obamacare to propose an alternative.And the silence remains
It was printed in this paper just yesterday that BILLIONS have now been
squandered in Iraq and cannot be accounted for.It's interesting
to me that we have billions to hand out to Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc without
any accountability, we have billions to support our 400+ bases around the world,
we continue to waste millions on jets that the military doesn't even want
(but which politicians demand because it means jobs for their states) and yet we
cannot afford "health care" in our own country.While our
country's infrastructure, education, and health care systems rot, our
country can continue to hand out money in worthless wars, overgrown bases, and
lazy jet plane manufacturers. While our people suffer with the
nation's debt in a horrible economy, we continue to pledge billions to Iraq
to "prop up theirs" despite their country being on top one of the
greatest oil reserves in the world.We're being taken for
idiots. Yet, who's stopping them? Certainly not the
right, who is not only permitting this fleeching of America, but encouraging it!
When will our government stop building up others and concentrate on
us? Lets build up America.
I don't think Obamacare prevents innovation, doesn't touch education,
and certainly helps people to become more responsible (or else they'll pay
a fine!).We're already paying for these folks via premiums, ER
costs, and bankruptcies. Might as well create a mandate for them to get
insurance and prevent greedy insurance companies from denying/dropping folks
because of pre-conditions. I support Obamacare because it is a step
in the right direction. I hope that one day we'll just get rid of the
senseless middle-man and go into a single-payer system like most of the advanced
industrialized world. I also support Obamacare because it's at
least an attempt at addressing the issue. Repubs haven't made any
suggestions or plans. They merely say "No!" Until repubs
come up with a realistic plan (rather than right wing mantra) I'll support
Obamacare. And sorry folks, tort reform and passing everything over to the
states isn't a real plan.
Every person who claims that healthcare is a right should be condemned. No one
has a right to any medical service unless he is willing to earn the money to pay
for it himself.America is suffering through an epidemic of crime,
addiction, and immorality. Every one of these social ills has its roots in
laziness and idleness. The lazy and idle population has been created directly
from government entitlement programs. Adding healthcare to the entitlement list
will magnify the problem tenfold.As a nation, we can no longer
pretend that the government can provide for every want and need of every
citizen. We must return to the Founding principle that a man must work for his
bread, and if he will not work, he will not eat.
Unless the government seizes the assets of banks and of the "rich guy",
every dollar that the government spends comes from your wallet and my wallet.
Obamacare is the biggest TAX ever levied against the American people. It is a
TAX, pure and simple. It is NOT free.An honest man would tell us
the costs associated with his program, but Obama is flying around the country
pretending that he is the President of a nation of fools.Every
health care service costs money. If it comes through the government, it costs
even more because the government workers must be paid on top of the health care
providers.Obamacare is just another money grab. This time it's
for 18% of the GDP. The 15% that they take from our wages for Social Security
and Medicare pales in comparison.There are problems with health
care, but the Constitution does not authorize the federal government to handle
those problems. Health care is an issue for the STATES to handle.Call the STATE Insurance Commissioner and complain if you want changes in
We will eventually discover that what some have called "compassion for the
poor" was really nothing more than perpetuating irresponsibility.
"Let us direct our attention to improving our health care system by
innovation, education and self-reliance."That's just empty
right wing blather.35 million Americans have no health insurance.
Would we be more "self-reliant" if that number rose to 50 million? If I
took away your health insurance would you celebrate your newly-increased
"self-reliance?"How "innovative" can you be when
your insurance company cancels your policy upon learning that you have a serious
illness?When asked about how they feel about the individual elements
of the Affordable Care Act, i.e. keeping your kids on your insurance until
they're 26, ending lifetime coverage ceilings, ending denial of insurance
for pre-existing conditions, etc., Americans overwhelmingly express support.
Only when the label "Obamacare" is applied do they say they don't
like it. Mr. Westover, instead of fatuous calls for
"self-reliance," how about if you and your fellow conservatives start
offering a practical, comprehensive, workable solution to the health insurance
disaster to which you're so eager to return?
Consider that the big banks make big profits by borrowing from the Federal
Reserve at near zero rates, then lend to the public at considerably higher
rates, and buy Federal Debt at rates of 6 and 7% paidt to they, the banks.
Given this massive giveaway to banking I thinkt there is plenty of wealth in big
capital to fix healthhcare.