Greed, cowardice, arrogance. Is that self interest?
I assume it is evident to Mr Harmon that everything BYU does in athletics,
including going independent, is about self interest, greed etc. So if that is
wrong there is plenty to go around. Not a Ute or Coug fan but it is amusing to
listen to the accusations being thrown at the Utes that are identical with what
is going on in Provo. In this case BYU is upset because it doesn't serve
their self interest.
@4601"Greed, cowardice, arrogance. Is that self interest?"
No it's an ESPN contract. It's the cancellation of a traditional
rivalry for a period of time (With Utah State) It's demanding two home
games against one to renew the USU/ BYU rivalry. Well, maybe it is self
interest after all.
One of the better harmon articles.
If you can't play the rivalry game in November, it just doesn't have
the rivalry feel. I think a hiatus from the rivalry game might be good for the
fans of both teams.
I'm not sure Utah is entirely to blame for this. Conference realignment
has focused on potential media revenue and left out the fans. A decade or two
ago, most of the revenue came from fans attending games. It made sense to have
conferences geographically based so more fans could travel to watch their team.
Now the majority of the revenue comes from media packages. I think
in a few years we will find that this realignment has killed the "goose that
laid the golden eggs". Fans are the ones who lose in this new deal.
Stadiums will have fewer sellouts - how many Utah fans will travel to Michigan
and how interested are Michigan fans in watching the Utes? Fewer sellouts will
lead to "blacked out" games, and the media revenue will begin to
slip.All I ask is that someone doesn't forget the fans when
making these critical decisions.
These are strange times. A much bigger rivalry bit the dust when A&M jumped
to the SEC and Texas dumped the annual Thanksgiving Day game. Everyone
posturing for a chance to plsy for the national title is what is ruining college
Who am I sir?Sorry, but Utah State has only been a half-hearted
rivalry for decades. The main problem with Utah State is their very small
fanbase. Romney Stadium seats 25,000 and the Aggies have struggled to fill the
stadium for years. LES seats 65,000 and has averaged over 60,000 for the last 30
years. It makes little economic sense for BYU to continue playing home-and-home
games with a school that can't even fill a 25,000-seat stadium.Utah, on the other hand, has no such concerns with BYU; in fact, BYU's
average attendance during the past 30 years has been over 20,000 more than the
Utes have averaged and BYU could make a very good case for playing more games
and LES than at RES.Unlike the BYU-Utah series, the BYU-Utah State
series wasn't interrupted because the Cougars were afraid to lose to the
You know what Mr. Hill? This rivalry is nostalgic. It transcends AD's that
come and go. This rivalry is for the fans and if you ask Red or Blue, they would
say that this rivalry is fun and it is important and that you are a fun sucker.
You are less important than the rivalry. Fans and players alike wait all year
for this game and you ruined it for both. Someday you will not be an AD. I hope
it's sooner rather than later so a self serving AD like you won't get
in the way of valued tradition.
I honestly haven't spoken to anybody who really cared that the game
wasn't going to be played. It isn't what it use to be. The only
people who seem to really care about this rivalry are over 60. Everybody looks
out for their best interest. In fact I predict BYU won't even have a
football program in a few years. Football is not consistent with the mission of
Basically what Dr. Hill said (to put it politely/bluntly), "I don't
care what people think or say about me. Whether people like it or not, I have a
job to do as an athletic director in a BCS conference for the UofU; and the only
people I report to is the school president, the chancellor, and the PAC-12
commissioner."While BYU fans and the local media constantly
trashed Utah with scheduling and Utah's PAC-12 membership, BYU decided to
go the independent route and sign a contract with ESPN for TV exposure.
Obviously BYU faithful ignored what BYU did and bashed Utah for it. BYU
didn't think about Utah when it signed that ESPN deal, did they? Nope, it
is all about its self interest. Wow, how ignorant some Utah haters can be.
Pragmatic. You need to get out more.
Wow, Mr. Harmon, I have to give you props for this article! Perhaps some Utah
haters will think twice before beating Utah in their posts to a pulp. BYU
looked at as the victim to Utah, made the decision to go indy and sign a long
term TV deal with ESPN for exposure. BYU did what was best for BYU's
interest. Utah did what Utah did for it best interest. End of story. Some of
us need to move on!
@ TanyrbThank you! You hit the nail right on the head! It is very
hypocritical of the DNews sports writers and BYU fans that accuse Utah of acting
out of self-interest, when BYU themselves do the same thing to Utah State.
BYU's decision to bail out of the MWC was all out of self-interest and
jealousy to Utah's Pac-10 invitation. Let's face it! The
rivalry has changed! The meaning behind it is changing. What made the Holy War
so special is that Utah and BYU were both in the same conference, bowl games
were on the line, conference titles were on the line, and playing their
traditional game at the end of November. Now Utah and BYU are not in the same
conference and the game is played in September. Their is nothing on the line
anymore but instate bragging rights. That's it! Utah can now play for
Pac-12 titles, Rose Bowl berths, and possible NC berths. BYU can only play for
their contracted bowl game unless they are undefeated like any other mid-major
to get a better bowl. Can we drop these silly tantrum articles?
@collegestudent25 No, you are the one that must get out a little more.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if the LDS Church decides to drop BYU
football by the year 2018. Pragmatic, I agree with you in that the dismissal of
the program is a possibility.
So what is BYU supposed to do every year there is not a Michigan-type game on
Utah's schedule and they decide they want to play BYU??? Is BYU simply to
sit back and give in to Utah's every whim - be it playing the game or
not?Utah should not be allowed to singularly dictate when (or if)
the rivalry continues. I would hope that BYU has enough pride in who they are
to NEVER let this happen.
Dr. Hill owns the rivalry. He will decide when and if it is played.There is nothing BYU can do to influence the outcome... BYU must just wait for
the decision of Dr. Hill.Here is the delicious irony... In its flight to "independence", BYU has become more
"dependent" than ever before.BYU's participation in the
rivalry "depends" on decision of Dr. Hill.Beyond that...
There is not a conference team in the country the "depends" on playing
BYU. They all have committed conference schedules... they don't need
BYU.In planning an "independent" schedule BYU, on the other
hand, "depends" on the willingness of teams that have no need to play
the Cougars.Funny how the appearance of "independence" is
not really independence at all... rather just the opposite... BYU depends on
everyone... and no one depends on BYU.
Ute fans travel? Haha.
@ Howard S.Your comment was brilliant! You summed up BYU's
situation perfectly. I couldn't of said it better myself.Utah
has out grown this silly little rivalry. 55-34-4 is evidence of that! Get used
to it little brothers. Utah has bigger fish to fry now.
Can one of the Utah fans please explain how you are okay with Dr. Hill saying
"Playing BYU and Michigan is too difficult and unfair to our kids" and
how does playing BYU have any bearing on you winning or losing the Pac 12 title?
I would love to hear how many of you think this was the correct way to address
the scheduling problem 9 conference games can present. I understand the problem
but if I were a Utah fan I would expect a better thought out rationale from my
AD than this. He set himself up for this firestorm he has caused.
In your dreams, Howard S., in your dreams.BYU doesn't need U;
never has, and never will.When Utah gets over its arrogance and
selfishness and decides that tradition matters for something, we'll be
happy to play U again; until then, you can take your ball and runaway like a
spoiled child, and BYU will move on like a grownup who understands the value of
tradition and honor.
It's nice to see some of the arrogant BYU fans on these message boards get
a dose of reality and humble pie. Utah's calling the shots now, deal
Sadly those of you who insist this games doesn't matter are being
disingenuous. If you don't care then why write here. Head over to the
Colorado chat boards and write to them. Utah is not
"afraid" to play BYU. This has been a very even series of games. It has given us all excitement and its fun to ride each other when we
win and try to justify it when we lose. It is great for the Utes to
be in the Pac 12 - and I am one Cougar that will admit I am jealous. It was a
good break for them and I wish it was us.At the same time you Utes
should admit that few, if any, other school could pull off independence. And
true it is not as good as the Pac but it is not bad either. The best
thing for all of us is to be the best we can be. But if you really wish this
rivalry to die then I say: Stop writing about BYU in a negative way and get on
with hating Colorado. I shall miss my old enemy on those fall
Byu fans hypocritical? Nah.... That would never happen - LOL
Sadly, selfishness has become the rule of the day, certainly in
“amateur” athletics played by those “student” athletes.
To Chris Hill and his superiors, apparently only money matters. It is a lesson
being taught to every student at the University.
I'm sure there will be many times in the future when the schools will not
play. BYU certainly does not need Utah and visa versa. It's best to put
the game to bed because of the poor sportsmanship that has developed around it.
There's no point in playing a game where bitterness and ill feelings
@Truth Machine"Unlike the BYU-Utah series, the BYU-Utah State
series wasn't interrupted because the Cougars were afraid to lose to the
Aggies."Way to beat a dead horse. That take has been hashed 100
times already. Nobody bought it the first time. 54-10 ring any bells?
I hear many saying Chris Hill needs to listen to his fan base and keep the
rivalry intact. Well, in my case, he is listening. As a huge Ute fan and
supporter, I prefer not playing BYU anymore. Utah and BYU still compete for a
handful of recruits each year and this will continue. In my opinion, the two
not playing can help the Utes recruiting efforts and demonstrate Utah has moved
beyond the rivalry is a better option for great athletes. I would be willing to
bet Utah has offered BYU a two games at Rice-Eccles for for one in Provo. So in
reality, the ball is in BYU's court. Many call Utah's stance arrogant
but why was it not arrogant for BYU to offer Utah St. two home games for one
road game? The fact remains Utah is in a major conference and BYU is not. This
is a competitive advantage and I would hope Chris Hill leverages this advantage
Both are great schools with great programs. In a way I am glad the games are
over. I won't have to share space with Utah fans for awhile.
@Rockwell"BYU will move on like a grownup who understands the
value of tradition and honor."Let's ask Utah State how well
BYU understands the value of tradition and honor.
"Utah, BYU and TCU dumped the MWC and Mtn TV coverage like a ripe basket of
bad apples."Utah and TCU dumped the MWC. BYU quit. See the
BYU got two more games from Utah than I expected. The Cougars should be happy.
Why are we arguing over 2017 now? We just got the 2014 game. Cool it. Like
Dick said, who knows where BYU will be in 2017?
catramNorth Las Vegas, NV"Ute fans travel? Haha."Since the Sugar Bowl I have been (with a thousand others) been to Ames,
South Bend, The Coliseum L.A., Seattle, San Francisco, and El
Paso/Albuqurque/Santa Fe. This year I am going to Boulder and The Rose Bowl.I had to sell my season tickets to afford it, but I can still afford BYU
tickets when I'm in town.
"It's nice to see some of the arrogant BYU fans on these message boards
get a dose of reality and humble pie.Utah's calling the shots now,
deal with it."Motorbike-The irony in that statement is a
Utah fan calling BYU fans arrogant in one of the most arrogant comments on the
board. Utah fans have become what they have always proclaimed to hate the most
about BYU fans. Arrogant.To those who think BYU will drop
football.....ever...dream on. Saying that only exposes the insecurities you have
about your Utes. Go hang out at the athletic facilities at BYU for a couple of
hours and you will clearly see that BYU is in it for a very long time. People in
the athletic department just laugh when asked about the possibility of football
being dropped. Nice try though.
n8rix "Can one of the Utah fans please explain how you are okay with Dr.
Hill saying "Playing BYU and Michigan is too difficult and unfair to our
kids" It's a nice and complimentary way to say, "BYU is
a tough team, Not an unworthy opponent."So, stop worrying. Dr.
Hill still likes you.I am one that says, "Go away little
brother, I've got a date."
This is a much more reasonable article than I ever would have expected from Dick
Harmon. He doesn't like the situation, but he clearly understands it.
Rockwell,There is nothing "grownup" in the tone of your
The Value of TraditionsAs a Notre Dame fan and proud Notre Dame Alum
I value the traditions of the "Golden Domers." Win or lose, it's
always exciting to play traditional rivals like Michigan, USC, Stanford and
Navy.Traditions are an important part of a legacy. Traditions help
remind us of who we are and what we stand for, indeed, traditions are woven into
the very fabric and culture of a university. Reading through these blogs it
become quite evident which school has a legacy, and which school, without a
seismic change in attitude and culture, never will.
Thank you Dick Harmon for helping folks understand this has nothing to do with a
decision Utah is making. Utah was picked up by an elite conference and took the
upgrade just like BYU or any other MWC would – but only Utah and TCU were
offered.Next, the relationship between Utah and all the mid-majors
must change. Every year home and home series do not exist across the chasm
between the two levels. There are a few exceptions between two state schools
where state government gets involved (cannot apply here).BYU became
independent; however they simply cannot declare that they are elite. If that
could be done all mid-majors would do so. The only exception is ND (noted as
the only school that has been offered multiple times by every single elite
conference). BYU will only be able to claim the elite independent status when
they are picked and decline multiple times. This could change but currently
there is only 1 possible elite independent. The order of college
football dictates to schools, one school cannot simply change all these rules to
Utah uses the excuse that they don't have enough slack or ease in their
schedule to keep playing BYU having to schedule 9 conference games. Hill is
pathetic! Your dang right BYU would crush the U in the coming years with the
recruits they have lined up. If the roles were reversed, BYU would NOT have
dropped the rivalry. Utah is a selfish school and michigan is going to crush
them both years, glad you got what you wanted hill, this is going to make you
look even worse than you look now in the coming years.
Now if you understand the order of college football you have a chance to put
some pieces together. All elite programs will ask for and be given distinct
scheduling advantages when they play mid-majors. In similar fashion, mid-majors
will demand the same scheduling advantages when they play lesser programs.When doing so, no one is uncaring, shameful, stupid or trying to destroy
rivalries. Much bigger rivalries have gone thru this change due to one program
upgrading or conference realignments. No amount of hissy fits will change all
of college football to satisfy a few.My suggestion is for BYU to
quickly accept that Utah has upgraded more than they have. Next, allow the
common scheduling advantages that elite programs enjoy. The result would be
more games, likely most played in SLC and we could settle in and enjoy the next
phase of this rivalry. It would look much like any other elite vs. mid-major
series, like Utah series with other MWC schools, like BYU series with USU, like
the BYU-Utah series was in the 1950s, like the natural order of things.Thank you Mr. Harmon, for helping us understand our reality.
This rivalry has died off. BYU fans that I know have cooled off on the love of
the football program. I don't hear any big arguments in my family when the
two schools face each other. BYU was something under LaVell Edwards. Now
it's just meh. They have good and bad seasons. But I think sports fans in
Utah are more hungry for professional sports than college sports.
The horse is dead. Let it lie. Isn't there anything else to write about in
this state. Time to move on.
@ Rockwell"When Utah gets over its arrogance and selfishness and
decides that tradition matters for something, we'll be happy to play U
again;"Arrogance? BYU is the king of arrogance! Look no further
than the BYU players who celebrate like they won the Super Bowl after every
tackle, gain or loss! BYU is guilty of cheap shots and spearing and they act
like "they could do no wrong". The fans and the students have this
"holier than thou" attitude, meaning people who don't go to BYU are
looked upon as apostate in their eyes. "until then, you can
take your ball and runaway like a spoiled child, and BYU will move on like a
grownup who understands the value of tradition and honor".As far
as tradition and honor, practice what you preach, i.e. Bailing on the Mountain
West Conference with your "I'm too good for you" attitudes. While
touting Independence! Ending the rivalry with Utah State a decade ago and now
demanding 2 for 1 deals with the Aggies to play again. So is that how grown ups
act with a skewed concept of tradition and honor?
As a BYU fan I watch and follow most of the Utah games. Now I won't find
much interest in following their games. I think they may lose a lot of viewers
because of this decision as there are certainly a great number of BYU fans who
won't care about Utah that much anymore.
@Truth MachineIt makes little economic sense for BYU to continue
playing home-and-home games with a school that can't even fill a
25,000-seat stadium.-----------Yet I don't recall
Utah demanding a 2 for 1 with Utah State due to "economic" issues. I
guess BYU might be low on funds.
@ND95CAAs a Notre Dame fan and proud Notre Dame Alum I value the
traditions... Traditions are an important part of a legacy...Reading through
these blogs it become quite evident which school has a legacy.----------Why don't you go read Texas-Texas A&M blogs.
While you're at it also visit Nebraska-Colorado blogs. Then please come
back and post your "evidence". Is the upcoming playoffs
"keeping with tradition"?Here's what Dr. Hill and the
Ute Nation thinks of the "legacy" program down south:"Utah athletic director Chris Hill had a contract in his desk for the
BYU-Utah series since last fall. It remained unsigned."
I don't care what BYu chooses to do. I'm glad that Utah did what they
did. The world hates BYu.
It's ok! Both Utah and BYU have bettered themselves.
The arrogance displayed by most ute fans, coaches, and administration is sad.
Is this acceptable amongst families, neighbors, and life-long friends?
Absolutely not. Utah will rue the day that Dr. hill let money, power and
ambition change the face of Utah athletics forever.Things seldom
turn out the way you hope.As for BYU, I would hope that the
administration at BYU does not cave in to Utah's every demand / whim. If
they don't want to play us, fine. But we should never let them dictate if
or when the series is to start up again. Just as a spoiled child, there needs
to be consequences to their actions.
BYu is old news. Sorry!
Good BYu, go elsewhere. I don't care about your future in any way at
@Cougars1"... a Utah fan calling BYU fans arrogant is one of the
most arrogant comments on the board. Utah fans have become what they have always
proclaimed to hate the most about BYU fans. Arrogant."I
won't argue your point because my comment really was arrogant. But that
arrogance has come in the last couple weeks with all the incessant whining from
cougar fans about the rivalry game and the ridiculous spin they all want to put
on it as well as anything else Utah / Pac 12 related. It's
gotten so obnoxious that the recent whining and previous years of BYU arrogance
has taken me from being one of the Utah fans who supported playing the rivalry
game regardless, to one who thinks it may really be time to turn away from it.
Perhaps a nice helping of humble pie will bring Coug fans back to earth, not
holding my breath.So yeah, I'm fine with admitting I'm
ready to return the arrogance with some arrogance. I had hoped not to go that
route but I'm more than ready now.Utah needs to let whiny
cougar fans take a timeout to gain some perspective/humility.
BYu is in trouble. Utah is not.
Uteology"Yet I don't recall Utah demanding a 2 for 1 with
Utah State"No, Utah simply bought out their final scheduled trip
to Romney Stadium and will never play the Aggies in Logan again after this
season.The Utes have turned their backs on their instate rivals
because they're cowards. Sorry if the truth hurts, but the Utes
are nothing but elite team wannabees - big boy conference bottom-feeders living
in the reflected light of programs that have actually accomplished something on
the national stage.
Motorbike - NEVER has BYU exhibited the arrogance that Utah is now. How many
ute fans have said something to the effect that "we are better that BYU now;
bigger fish to fry; we are big time now; BYU is mid-level major" etc. etc.
etc. The fact that you think that in your second year you can actually compete
in the PAC12 is laughable; the fact that your fans continue to talk about
getting to the "final 4" in football is laughable; the fact that you
think you can get to the Rose Bowl any more than once in 20 years (talk to
Arizona, ASU, WSU, etc.) is laughable; the arrogance displayed by Whittingham
and Hill is laughable; the utter arrogance exhibited by Utah fans is
laughable.There is no question which school wins the title of
"arrogant" in the state of Utah, and maybe the whole United States. Enjoy the title; you have earned it.
UteologyYour response to ND95CA reveals much more than you realize
about the U. Not once did he mention which school he considered having a legacy
program that values traditions, or which school he considers lacking a legacy
program and not valuing traditions, yet the evidence is so blatantly obvious,
even to Utah fans, that you've validated everything he said with your
response.ND95CA's comments were advice for the wise - those who
show disdain for traditions, will eventually find themselves rudderless on the
seas of change, with no sense of identity of who they are.
As a Utah fan, graduate, and donor; I have no problem with the decision to take
a break from the annual game. I will always consider BYU the biggest rival and
look forward to resuming the game in 2016. Until then, many of the fans need to
get over themselves - Utah did what they felt was best for the program and said
nothing negative about the Y.Comments about being greedy are simply
unfounded. Both the U and the Y have taken actions recently that they believe
will benefit their programs and I commend both schools for their decisions.
@ Cougars1 9:55amWhile I'm not saying that BYU will drop
football, I wouldn't dismiss the future possibility of it. (No, I am not a
Ute fan). Those with higher authority over folks in the athletic department
would likely be responsible for making that decision. I hope your faith
isn't compromised if/when that decision is made.
SportsFan proclaimed "Sorry if the truth hurts, but the Utes are nothing but
elite team wannabees"What is hurtful about that? That's
exactly what Utah wants. Isn't that what life is about? Set a lofty goal
and go for it!What alternative do you suggest? Go back to the
Mountain West, dominate the mid-majors, and be available to fill out BYU's
November schedule? No thanks!
Where is the professionalism in this article?Utah and Hill are doing
what is best for Utah. And because it's not best for BYU, BYU's
fans (including Dick Harmon) are not quite happy about it.If
positions are reversed...if BYU was invited to Pac-12 instead of Utah, perhaps
BYU may do the same. If that was the case, I would care less if BYU
dropped Utah game.Whining will not get you anywhere.Crying out
of anger only shows your weakness.Be a man and accept the
fact...Utah no longer needs BYU game.
AntelopeValleyUtePalmdale, CABasically what Dr. Hill said (to put it
politely/bluntly), "I don't care what people think or say about me.
Whether people like it or not, I have a job to do as an athletic director in a
BCS conference for the UofU; and the only people I report to is the school
president, the chancellor, and the PAC-12 commissioner."While
BYU fans and the local media constantly trashed Utah with scheduling and
Utah's PAC-12 membership, BYU decided to go the independent route and sign
a contract with ESPN for TV exposure. Obviously BYU faithful ignored what BYU
did and bashed Utah for it. BYU didn't think about Utah when it signed that
ESPN deal, did they? Nope, it is all about its self interest. Wow, how ignorant
some Utah haters can be.___________LOL!How
dare you make comments challenging BYU fans like that.
BalanSouth Jordan, UtahMotorbike - NEVER has BYU exhibited the
arrogance that Utah is now. How many ute fans have said something to the effect
that "we are better that BYU now; bigger fish to fry; we are big time now;
BYU is mid-level major" etc. etc. etc. The fact that you think that in your
second year you can actually compete in the PAC12 is laughable; the fact that
your fans continue to talk about getting to the "final 4" in football is
laughable; the fact that you think you can get to the Rose Bowl any more than
once in 20 years (talk to Arizona, ASU, WSU, etc.) is laughable; the arrogance
displayed by Whittingham and Hill is laughable; the utter arrogance exhibited by
Utah fans is laughable.There is no question which school wins the
title of "arrogant" in the state of Utah, and maybe the whole United
States. Enjoy the title; you have earned it.____________________Title? You own it!Arrogant = BYU
WAC legacy which nobody respects other than BYU fans.Arrogant = BYU fans
thinking power conferences want them. Nope!
SoonerUteThe point is, despite all of the chestbeating by Utah fans,
the Utes aren't even close to being an elite team, in fact, the Utes
weren't even competitive in the worst division of any major conference. The
rest of the conference sits back and snickers at the ineptitude of the newbies
on the block and wonder why they were invited to the conference in the first
place since the Utes have done absolutely NOTHING to prove that they belong.8th in football11th in basketballdead last or next to last
in every other men's sportWhat we suggest is curbing all of the
pointless chestbeating until you've actually accomplished something.Finishing with a winning conference record in any men's sport might
be a good place to start.
I think Dick is a little more balanced than most of those at the Team Down South
who are crying foul. After all the BYU-Utah State rivalry went back to 1922, but
BYU put a stop to it in 2002 out of self-interest. Over the next four years they
played the Aggies only once - a one and done in Provo. Today if Utah State wants
a contract, they have to sign and two for one with the Cougars. What goes
around, comes around.
USC and Notre Dame manage to adjust their schedules to accomodate their annual
game played sometime between October 15 and the end of November at least since
2003.Stanford and Notre Dame manage to adjust their schedules to
accomodate their annual game played only once in September, the rest played in
October and November at least since 2003.It would be nice to see BYU/UTAH
make similar accomodations.
Balan and Pheniox....You do realize this was Utah's first year
in the PAC12 right? Do you really think they won't get better recruits in
the future? Be jealous and say they will never go to a rose bowl all you want.
They have already reached and won a Sugar bowl and Fiesta bowl in the last 8
years. I understand the jealousy you two have over that. IMO however going off
of that. I would say they would at least have a shot at a rose bowl in the
futre. Give them more then 1 year to settle into their new conference. Even in
their first year they were competetive and beat the team you two brag up by 44
PTS on their home feild.
Don't you all have other more important things to worry about than a
football game? Get a life. There are many reasons I don't live in Utah
anymore--the vastly overheated, overhyped and overrated BYU-Utah rivalry is just
one of them.--A Proud Ex-Utahn (and even prouder BYU alum)
@Balan"The fact that you think that in your second year you can
actually compete in the PAC12 is laughable"_____Though I
said nothing of the sort in my comment I'll still respond to your
remark.While I choose to simply watch great football games and see
how it all plays out, Trevor Matich of ESPN (former BYU player/regular Ute
critic) recently called Utah a dark horse for a national championship this
coming season. He stated that it would not surprise him if Utah beat USC at RES
and ended the season with a shot at the title.So go on thinking Ute
fans have their heads in the clouds for hoping to compete for the Pac 12 South
championship. We'll all just ignore that most national football critics
believe Utah will be in the top three or four of the Pac 12 this season - which
by the way is some very elite company with USC, Oregon and Stanford thought to
be top 10 teams and Washington close behind.
I would guess the people over 60 would care less if the game isn't
What high and mighty Utah fans like 2BCSWINS fail to recognize is that had you
been in the PAC12 in 2004 and 2008 you would NEVER have made it to either the
Fiesta Bowl or Sugar Bowl. So continue to fantasize all you want that simply
because you are in the PAC12 now you are going to get better recruits and take
the PAC12 by storm, but the bottom line is that you will never compete with
teams like USC, Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Cal, UCLA, ASU (other than an
occasional aberration - once every 25 years, if lucky). Enjoy your new reality
Utes. You asked for it and got it.
"Anything Utah is doing or will do to enhance and protect its brand is
exactly what everybody else is doing."Protects it brand?
Really?Please tell me how abandoning a century old rivalry factors
into protecting a non-existent brand?If Dr. Hill is so concerned
about enhancing his program tell me what's happening with basketball and
the other sports? It's entertainment, that's it and
somehow taking away something the majority of the fans want, on both sides of
the debate, somehow just does not compute.I never criticized the
Utes for moving to the PAC 10. They wanted stiffer competition, they got it, a
definite enhancement.But protecting a brand???? A hilarious but
false assumption. You have to have something first to protect it.
That's what we call down south... a legacy.
@howiechris hill does not own the rivalry, what a ridiculous
statement although I'm never surprised by your ridiculousness. BYU wants to
schedule it and utah is to scared to play it. It is like claiming that the shut
in, to scared to come outside, "owns" those that want to play. Pretty
silly of you.I could not care less if BYU ever plays utah again. No
loss in my mind.
@charlie24Well we'll have to let all of those "elite"
programs like washington st, arizona, colorado, iowa st, duke, kentucky,
vanderbilt, utah, etc. know that even though none of them has ever done much
they are elite based on nothing more than association.LOL!
Reading some of the pathetic drivel posted today is truly unreal. I left Utah
over 15 years ago, glad I did. Few souls I've encountered since then ever
questioned why. Mainly because those few people went to ski Utah, which is about
the only reason to go there other than visiting the amazing national parks. I
love the Utes, but half of the population that resides there is off their
rockers..........just take one look at the politicians that represent that sad
place. I say let BYu go, never look back. Gooooooo Utes!
I disagree with those who claim BYU is arrogant in securing its independence and
its contract with ESPN. BYU was nearly blindsided in the football firestorm
that started a few years ago. At that time, it was sitting side-by-side with
his northern rival in a joint campaign to dismantle the BCS. Then, instantly,
its supposed "friend" to the north jumped ship to save itself in the new
PAC-12. BYU didn't get any offers -- not because they aren't good,
but because they abide certain religious principles. They were caught with no
choice but to come up with something to survive if they wanted a chance to keep
playing at a high level. Their solution was potentially brilliant, but by no
means was it arrogant and self-serving. It was an act of sheer survival. Utah
has done nothing but serve itself all the way. It will get whatever comes of
its arrogant high-minded outlook going forward, but it was never a
"friend" or "ally" to BYU. BYU should let the old rivalry go
and be glad for it. Utah's fair-weather, high-minded, self-serving
attitude isn't worth the trouble for BYU.
If BYu was such a valuable commodity, why did they ONLY get a call back from the
lowly Big East? No major BCS conference gave BYu the time of day, nor will they
ever. The Y is the world's problem child and are treated as such.
BYu should thank Utah for a PAC game. As it stands today, BYu doesn't one
PAC school scheduled other than Utah after this year. And, there is NO WAY any
of the California PAC schools will EVER schedule BYu again.
@DuckhunterWho owns the rivalry?Tom Holmoe wants to play
in '14 and '15... Dr.Hill said no.Bronco Mendenhall wants
to play in '14 and '15... Dr. Hill said no.The
hyperventilating BYU media want to play in '14 and '15... Dr. Hill
said no.If the Cougar Nation truly didn't care about continuing
the game there would be no uproar... but in fact Cougar Nation cares deeply
about the game... Ute Nation responds with a big... meh...
we've got bigger fish to fry.Dr. Hill does indeed own the
rivalry... He dictates when and if it will be played.BYU can to
nothing but wait helplessly as Dr. Hill decides if he wants the trial separation
to continue beyond '16... he knows BYU will always be there as his backup
plan if other opportunities fall through.But hey... maybe BYU's
legacy will help them land another 4/2 with Notre Dame.
duckhunter states "I could not care less if BYU ever plays utah again. No
loss in my mind."Really? After posting on this article and the
other article on the Utes something like 25 times, you'll have to pardon me
if I doubt the truthfulness of your remark.
UtahBronco-I appreciate your concern over my faith. Would your faith
be shaken to know that President Monson attends every BYU home game and cheers
vehemently for the Cougars, and that in his mind there is not a chance that BYU
drops any of it's sports? My point is that anyone speculating
that BYU will drop football is doing just that. Just once I would like to see
someone back it up with more that just a "rumor" that they have started
because they are insecure.
duckhunter states "I could not care less if BYU ever plays utah again. No
loss in my mind."Really? After posting on this article and the
other article on the Utes something like 25 times, you'll have to pardon me
if I doubt the truthfulness of your remark.GoRed-So...You and all the other Utah fans posting on here must care?
@ Cougar1 8:32pmYou and I share the same faith. However, I do not
claim to know what is in President Monson's mind now or in the future.
During the last game at Lavell Edwards Stadium (when people were leaving the
stadium), Mrs. Whittingham was physically and verbally mistreated by a BYU fan.
She was with her kids, felt unsafe, and cried as she left the stadium. I think
this hit too close to home for Coach Whittingham and possibly might have created
some hurt feelings. I think at one time he had some gratitude for BYU, but the
incident ended all of that. He's ready to leave his history with BYU behind
him. My wife and I stopped attending BYU-Utah games at Rice-Eccles Stadium for
the same reason many years ago. Therefore, considering what happened to his wife
and seeing that fans continue to go overboard with the rivalry, having a
demanding PAC-12 schedule served as a good excuse or out to end the rivalry. To
be quite honest, I won't be surprised if the U and BYU never or rarely play
each other in football after this season. Even though Chris Hill and Tom Holmoe
say otherwise, I think it's over.
No one is at fault here. No one is scared, arrogant or cowardly. It's the
big business of college football. Money has taken over. Title IX has an impact
because there is no women's equivalent to football, athletic departments
are struggling to stay in the black. So everyone is chasing money. I'm a
BYU fan and believe the Cougars would have done the same thing if in Utah's
shoes. Harmon's point that BYU going independent would seem arrogant,
cowardly, blah blah blah in Laramie, San Diego, or Albuquerque is spot on. It
just depends on the point of view. It's a shame the rivalry is on hold for
a couple of years, but it's not Utah's fault. It's just the
state of grabbing as many dollars as you can in college football. It's
elitism in college football that doesn't exist in other sports that's
driving the change. If you really want to blame someone, blame the NCAA for
allowing the BCS to create "haves and have nots" that have driven
conference realignment. The payouts are so huge inside the BCS, programs try to
find a way in.
@WJCougWhat high and mighty Utah fans like 2BCSWINS fail to
recognize is that had you been in the PAC12 in 2004 and 2008 you would NEVER
have made it to either the Fiesta Bowl or Sugar Bowl. _________I'm glad to see a cougar fan admit that the Pac 12 is a much more
difficult schedule to play. And THIS is why the rivalry game is a REAL issue for
Chris Hill to tackle on a year by year basis ... particularly years when Utah
already lines up a Michigan type game.So again, thank you for making
our point for us.
The point is that for Utah fans to be expecting to win the PAC12, go to the Rose
Bowl, or become a top-echelon team in the PAC12 is a real stretch. Enjoy your
ride in the PAC12 but I think you are mistaken if you or anyone else
realistically expects to go to a BCS or national championship playoff anytime
soon. In fact my guess is that it never happens again. From the standpoint of
playing in a major bowl game, you were better off in the old MWC. You need to
prepare to become, at best, a mid-level program in the PAC12 (I know - you think
it is better than what BYU has now. I really do get the way you guys think).
ya IM sure Utah cant fit byu in anymore, o waitt but they can fit northern
colorado? if byu is so mid- major why not just use them as a tune up game? thats
what I thought.
@WJCougYou make another fine point there ... you're trying to
inform Ute fans of the doom and gloom of how hard it will be to ever again reach
another major bowl game due to playing in the PAC 12. Meanwhile we Ute fans are
already well aware of this and embrace the new challenge and would like to see
if we can ever pull it off the big boy way.But your comment speaks
for many cougar fans that would rather beat up on cupcakes and hope enough other
teams lose so you can finish in the top 25 - or even #1 like in '84.No thank you, I don't know one Ute fan that would trade the BYU way
of doing it for trying to get things done the big boy way - risk of Pac 12
cellar dweller and all. It's too much fun playing exciting teams virtually
every week to want to trade that for a fake 10-win season.
Regardless of the continual whYning, ridiculous insults and negative
speculations as to the Ute's future success by ardent Y fans, there are a
couple facts that play "trump card" it it relates to Utah and we
fans.........our conference games are exciting and mean something every week, We
are in the 12 PAC and BYu is NOT! And there is an old proverb that defines the
current status of the U's relationship with BYu..............."We truly
don't care, and you definitely don't matter." Live with it
Utah who?I mean really, let's move on. Utah competes in ONE
sport, ONE. THAT's it. Where is the basketball, soccer, rugby,
volleyball, cross country, track and field, swim, tennis team? EXACTLY. Pretty
much non-existent. Let them protect their lonely football team and have their
day in the sun. Their football team beat us pretty good last year, although we
were the better team as coaches determined at the end of the year. Time to move
on, we cougars have bigger fish to fry. The likes of the Broncos, Georgia Tech
and Irish just to name a few. Go Cougars!
Utahbronco-Thanks for making my point.
Come on Dick. Utah cannot continue to carry this rivalry. To carry football
for the state of Utah. They cannot continue pretending that their fellow
in-state programs who play the majority of their schedule against the WAC, are
on equal footing with the Pac-12 Utes. It's unfair to both sides. BYU truly is finding out how insignificant they are, after having spent
the last 30 years trying to convince everyone otherwise. For all that they
supposedly bring to the table, lets examine the facts. 1)No BCS conference
wants them. Pac-10 passed for decades, Big 12 took West Virginia!, Big East
would love them, to pair with other Conference USA teams. 2)They can't put
together a decent 12 game schedule, even though they can sellout any stadium
across the country. 3)The moment your biggest rival deemed you of no further
use, they dropped you like a crazy girlfriend. And 4)For your supposed national
fan base, your games are stuck on ESPN 2 at 8:30PM on Saturday nights. Proving
once again that outside of LDS wardhouses nationwide, nobody cares about BYU.Tough time being a Cougar fan.
Utah got promoted - along with TCU to BCS conferences. The reason for the
promotions had largely to do with their own BCS wins. BYU got left behind and
only went independent to run from the embarrassment of staying in the MWC. Being
Independent has not worked out at all for the Y. No real bowl game to speak of
(Armed Forces Bowl is a bottom tier bowl) and a home schedule of embarrassing
teams to play for the Y - Idaho, New Mex St, San Jose St, Weber St, etc... The
ESPN TV deal doesn't even come close to replacing being in a BCS conference
and now recruits are dumping the Y for the U. BYU is very quickly becoming a
has-been in college football and my guess is Bronco is not going to be part of
that after next season. BYU missed the chance to really promote themselves a
year ago when the Big 12 was fishing for 2 teams but it sounded like the Y was
unwilling to give up their TV deal with ESPN - BIG MISTAKE. Too bad - BYU
football is fading into the sunset. It was fun while it lasted.
WJcoug-Read Motorbike's comment 5 times through. That's
exactly how Utah fans feel.BYU fans are extremely proud of their
"dynasty". They believe a few spread-out individual accomplishments over
the years, combined with "top-25/10-win finishes", trump undefeated
seasons, BCS busting, Conference invitations etc.. Not being invited to a
conference doesnt bother cougar fans. In fact, they embrace independence because
they get to see their team beat the snot out of weak teams on national
television (ESPN and BYUtv). BYU wouldn't want to be caught dead in the
Pac-12 anyways, because even though they are a "power conference", some
of the lower-tier teams having losing records, so that must mean they are not
very good. Also, even though we got shalacked by our rival 54-10, we are still
better than them because we had the better record at the end of the year. I get the way you think too.
Hey Dontmuss,Now you know how Cougar fans feel when BYU beats Utah. It
doesn't matter how many times it happens, there is always an excuse. I get
where you are coming from. I talk to BYU fans all the time that can't get
their heads out of the clouds....but I also talk to a lot of Utah fans who are
the same way. Utah fans and BYU fans are both guilty of hypocritical statements,
arrogance, and just plain stupidity. It goes both ways and any fan that
can't admit that belongs in one of those categories.
Motorbike - I get it that BYU fans are sometimes over the top and a bit
arrogant. But as Cougars1 aptly expressed, it goes both ways. The
final act of arrogance, however, was perpetrated by Whittingham and Hill a few
days ago when they suspended the century-long rivalry with BYU. Neither
program, until now, has ever shown that level of arrogance.Can you
imagine how Utah fans would have reacted had the "death blow" come from
BYU instead of Utah???
As long as applicants continue to receive denial letters from the BYU admissions
office, there will be a rivalry here.