I'm not really sure why so many of my fellow Utah fans think Utah is going
to be much better than what we saw last year? Sure I'm hopefull but there
is no real evidence that they will be. As of today they still have a pretty
terrible QB situation with an injury prone starter, a D2 backup, and a couple of
freshman behind them. There is no way to spin that as good.Our new
offensive coordinator is very young and does not have a single bit of
experience, not to mention he didn't exactly set the world on fire as a qb
coach. We did have a pretty easy schedule last year and still finished with a
losing record in the conference. Frankly we lucked out in our bowl game. Optimism is a great thing, but just being optimistic despite the reality
of things is kind of foolish. And SoCalUtahFan your list of possible
wins and probable losses is so far out there that no one can read it and take it
seriously. Utah is a mid tier PAC 12 program, and probably always will be. Our
geography and budget guaranty it.
Utah AlumMost Utah fans couldn't cite the score of last
season's Utah-USC game without looking it up, but every Utah fan knows the
score of last season's BYU-Utah game.-----------Yet
it's BYU fans holding the slogans: "Harline is still open",
"4th and 18", and "George is still running." 54-10... PRICELESS!!
"the only way the Y vs U game is a must going forward is if BYU gets into
the Big 12 otherwise who cares...."You do; and so does every
other Utah fan, whether you want to admit or not.Utah fans
can't help themselves from comparing Utah to BYU.The constant
citations of the score of last season's game is proof of that.Most Utah fans couldn't cite the score of last season's Utah-USC
game without looking it up, but every Utah fan knows the score of last
season's BYU-Utah game.
the only way the Y vs U game is a must going forward is if BYU gets into the Big
12 otherwise who cares....
I agree Ufan. There is room for improvement. The reason I am optimistic that we
will see improvement is because Utah football is pretty good at doing more with
less. I think Utah will be able to take advantage of the luxuries provided by
Two For Flinching"Utah did alright in its first season"As a Utah fan I expect MUCH MORE than "alright".Two
home losses to conference foes with losing records, including that humiliating
loss to 10-loss Colorado isn't even alright. The Utes played six PAC 12
teams with losing records and only managed to beat four of them to finish 4-5
and not even win the pathetically weak PAC 12 South.There's no
guarantee that increased money, facilities and recruiting will improve
Utah's record. The Utes still lag well behind every other team in the PAC
12 and don't even rank in the upper half of the conference in recruiting.
A lot of wishful thinking from BYU fans going on here. Nobody knows who will win
(especially in 2013) which is the reason they play the game.Utah did
alright in its first season and I don't see any reason why the Utes
won't improve their record in conf. with the recent increases in money,
facilities, and recruiting.
BYU VS. UTAH 2012 .....BYU LOSS ........just like it has been 70% of the time
the last decade.
All I know is that in the last 10 years Byu has only managed to win 3 games
against the Utes..Byu is pathetic
Utah is looking at at worst 2 or 3 losses lol, keep dreamingUtah will have at least 4 losses and could have as many as 6 or 7.@USC - guaranteed lossUCLA - possible loss@Stanford -
guaranteed lossOregon - very probable loss@WSU - very possible
lossWashington - possible loss@Arizona - probable winASU -
probable lossColorado - possible loss
scott...your math is fuzzy at best.Here is real math:@USC -
possible lossUCLA - win@Stanford - possible lossOregon -
possible win@WSU - winWashington - win@Arizona - probable
winASU - winColorado - winUtah is looking at at worst 2
or 3 losses in a very tough conference scheduleassume "upsets" in
loss/win cancelling have the same probability.2014 will be with the
same conference schedule, reverese in home-and-away, and yetUtah schedules
Michigan.Face it, Utah does not need BYU as much as BYU needs Utah
on the schedule now.
Little brothersIt's the same big brother who actually has a
legacy of National Championships and Heisman Trophy Winners and National College
Football Hall of Fame Players and National Individual Awards and being a
perennial Top 25 team for the past four decades, something our little brothers
can't possibiliy understand because their trophy case is completely empty
of any of the national awards expected of a legacy program.For all
of their leather helmet era "greatness", the Utes didn't have a
single accomplishment on a national scale before BYU and Utah joined the WAC in
1962.Even then, Utah football was so inept that it took the Utes
another thirty years before they finally cracked the Top 25 in both polls for
the very first time.The monumental difference between Utah's
leather helmet era of dominance and BYU's modern day era of dominance, is
BYU actually accomplished something on a national scale.Call us when
Utah wins its first "nations best" at ANYTHING in football national
Solomon the Frantic and Emotional:"The big brother who grew up
and has a .617 record vs. their little brother since winning his first
conference championship 47 years ago."Isn't that the same
"big brother" who has since posted a .300 record vs. their "little
brother" over the past 10 years? That's even worse than your .356.
Doesn't look like you've made a very good case for yourself there.
Oh my goodness??????? BYu is not arrogant? HAHAHAHA! They are the quintessential
example of such a trait. The fact is that everyone is tired of BYu and how they
act, EVERYONE. That has been proven. No BCS conference will give BYu the time of
day, and the prestigious top 4 won't return Tom Holmoe's frantic
calls. Enjoy that entertaining November schedule Y fans.........the worst in
college football history.
Utah is in a tough situation with the rivalry. The Utes know that can't
avoid playing BYU without looking like cowards, but they've also realized
after their first year in the PAC 12 that they're not nearly as competitive
as they thought they would be, so they're faced with a dilemma.Pretend that they're too good for BYU and look like cowards for running
away.Play BYU and risk losing and not even qualifying for a bowl.Either way, all their talk about being a "big boy" is sounding
more and more hollow every day.
SoCalUtahFanThe real truth is, the math simply doesn't work out
for Utah to play BYU in 2013 and still qualify for a bowl.@USC -
probable lossUCLA - probable win@Stanford - probable lossOregon - probable loss@WSU - probable winWashington - probable
loss@Arizona - probable winASU - probable lossColorado -
probable winWith 5 probable losses already on the schedule, adding a
6th probable loss to BYU would put Utah's bowl hopes in serious jeopardy
for 2013 and would make Utah's bowl hopes in 2014 and beyond even more
doubtful with a Big Ten team being added to the schedule.Without a
couple of guaranteed OOC home wins against a couple of cupcakes, the Utes could
disappear completely from the bowl picture. Worrying about SOS is
the least of Utah's concerns because the Utes will never be in contention
for a playoff berth anyway.
Say what you want, SoCalUtahFan, but the truth is, Utah is running away from the
rivalry because Coach Whittingham and Dr. Hill understand that Utah simply
isn't good enough to play a PAC 12 schedule and a Big Ten opponent and
still finish with enough wins to qualify for a bowl game.Watching
BYU playing in a bowl game while the Utes were once again staying home for the
holidays would bring back nightmares of the 70's and 80's for Utah
fans and be disastrous for the fragile psyche of Utedom.Scheduling a
couple of OOC patsies is Utah's only option to avoiding 5-7 seasons and no
bowls, which could send Utah's football program into the same disastrous
tailspin as their basketball program.Colorado will continue to play
their PAC 12 schedule, and a Big Ten foe, and their natural rival, Colorado
State, but Utah's fragile program simply can't handle the challenge.
say what you want...The truths:Utah will stop playing BYU
after this year....In 2014-2015: Utah replaced the game with Michigan.After that, there will be other big-10 schools that Utah looks to sign.bottom line:Mid-majors who want to schedule games with the big BCS
boys will have to sign contract in the big boy's terms.
Utah-Hawaii AlumThis is a difficult fact for Utah fans... but
Utah's arrogance will eventually come back to bite U big time. Most BYU
fans would like to see the rivalry continue, but the reality is, BYU
doesn't need U, and never has.Run away from the rivally now,
and U may find that BYU no longer has any interest in playing U when those
losing seasons in the PAC 12 start to pile up and RES starts to look like a
ghostown - see the HC.Be careful what U wish for.
"Utah trades BYU for Michigan..."lolUtah did no
such thing.Utah has openings for THREE OOC opponents on its schedule
- Michigan and Utah State are only two.The definition of COWARDICE
will be revealed by the cupcake Utah schedules to replace BYU.
@phoenix"Utah not playing BYU is not a mistake"It's
just plain and simple...COWARDICE!hahaha...Coward? Utah trades
BYU for Michigan..and other big-10 schools.Even with Northern
Colorado is an even trade...Not sure where you get your definition
Utah-Hawaii Alum"Utah is ranked 9th all time"yawnThe rundown Utes are a "has been" that was destroyed
in its only NCAA tournament game in the last seven years.Since 2005
- 101-119(46%) overall, 47-67(41%) conference, 5 losing seasons, 3-11 versus BYU
(only 1 win in the last 11 meetings)In Utah's first season in
the PAC 12, the Utes(6-25) finished 2nd to last, ranked #294 in Sagarin, lost AT
HOME to San Diego Christian (a school of only 500 students), and had their
fewest wins since 1944.9th ranked???Utah was ranked DEAD
LAST in the State of Utah last season#40 BYU#124 USU#135
WSU#233 UVU#239 SUU#294 Utah
This is a difficult fact for BYu fans..........Uh, uh, uh.........the ONLY way
that bYu plays the U again will be Utah's decision. That is true.
Utah is in the game.........we all know that!
"Utah is in the big time"yada yada yadaPRETENDERS get dominated AT HOME by 10-loss teams.Big time
programs don't.BYU has NEVER lost to a 10-loss team at home.Utah lost to a 10-loss team in their last home game.Utah, in all
honesty is all talk, but no walk.Call us when you actually
accomplish something in your big boy conference.-----------------"why do so many BYU fans complain about Utah playing UNC? Heck, BYU
is playing Weber State in week #2."#136 Weber State(5-6) is an
instate rival that will generate some local interest and will at least provide a
challenge on the field#209 Northern Colorado(0-11) is a team most
Utah fans couldn't even locate on the map and will be nothing more than a
practice dummy for the Utes
BYu was really good years ago. Now, it is over for bYu.. I think that is a fair
statement, and the reality.
Shoot, BYu will get lit-up by Waxzu for sure. Who does BYu have that will stop a
Leach "air raid?" Wazzu has some great talent. BYu does not.
Utah, in all honesty, will be ready for to play USC. That should be a great
game. USC in loaded. I hope Utah wins, and that is possible, as I see it.
Additionally, why do so many Y fans complain about Utah playing UNC? Heck, BYu
is playing Weber State in week #2. I think BYu needs wins to appear as relevant
is all........Utah needs a warm-up contest. Playing Utah State in Logan will NOT
be easy for the Utes. USU could beat Utah in my opinion. I believe it is a
"trap game" actually.
No wonder Utah will NOT negotiate with BYu. Maybe Utah will throw them a bone in
2014, but whY? Hey, Utah doesn't care and YBu doesn't matter. Utah
State is a better team and Utah has their hands full with the 12 PAC and now
mighty Michigan. Honestly, Utah had better come prepared.......or they will get
There is some funny basketball talk happening on this thread...... Utah is
ranked 9th all time. Utah is also 35-30 in the NCAA tourney that ranks 7th
all-time. They also rank 5th in regular season conference championships. BYu is
14-30 in that tourney. Utah is ranked 9th in NCAA basketball history. BYu is not
on the charts. It really is the stats.
Utah is in the big time, facing talent that has proven to be difficult. Utah
will pound a very substandard BYu squad again this year. Who cares? Utah State
is way better and I hope the U can beat them? They talk about "fitness"
at BYu now. Wow? It does not matter at all. BYu has Kyle Van Noy is all. Heck,
Utah has 20 players better than him. Utah has to get wonderful
recruits........the competition is tough in the 12 PAC. My hope is Utah plays
USU and abandons BYu.
"Utah not playing BYU is not a mistake"It's just plain
...BYU not playing Utah, to me that is a major mistake...but Utah
not playing BYU is not a mistake.
gdogSorry, U can't have it both ways - claim you're one of
the big boys, then whine about having to play a "more difficult"
schedule.If the Utes had beaten all of their opponents with LOSING
records, U would have finished with the same number of wins as BYU, and the Utes
would have finished 6-3 in the conference and won the PAC 12 South.Don't blame BYU's "weaker" schedule, for the Utes not being
good enough to beat mediocre Washington(7-6), Arizona State(6-7), and
California(7-6), and pathetic Colorado(3-10).Arizona State
completely collapsed the last two months of the season, losing 7 of their final
8 games after beating Utah. Ironically, they destroyed Colorado(48-14).Colorado was awful the entire season, yet U were dominated by both of them, AT
HOME.Colorado was on a school-record 23-game road losing streak, yet
at halftime, the Buffs led 10-0 and held a 254-39 total-yardage advantage and 11
1/2-minute edge in time of possession. The Utes didn't get their initial
first down until the 2:56 mark of the second quarter.
gdog3finallyExcept for 2005, when Kyle was only a year removed from
Utah's undefeated 2004 season and Bronco was rebuilding from Crowton's
disaster, Bronco has led or been tied with Kyle head-to-head, and has led
overall, at the end of most seasons.2005Bronco 6-6 unrankedKyle 7-5 unranked, Utah win in OT (1-0 Utah)2006Bronco 11-2,
17-8 overall, #16/#15 MWC Champion, BYU win (1-1 tied)Kyle 8-5, 15-10
overall, unranked2007Bronco 11-2, 28-10 overall, #14/#15 MWC
Champion, BYU win (2-1 BYU)Kyle 9-4, 24-14 overall, unranked2008Bronco 10-3, 38-13 overall, #25/#21Kyle 13-0, 37-14 overall,
#2/#4 MWC Champion, Utah win (2-2 tied)2009Bronco 11-2, 49-15
overall, #12/#12, BYU win (3-2 BYU)Kyle 10-3, 47-17 overall, unranked2010Bronco 7-6, 56-21 overall, unrankedKyle 10-3, 57-20
overall, unranked/#23, Utah win (3-3 tied)2011Bronco 10-3,
66-24 overall, unranked/#25Kyle 8-5, 65-25 overall, unranked, Utah win
(4-3 Utah), lost to a 10-loss team
@Jealous UYou display some records that look good for BYU. From what
I see, they are legit, but they are not the full picture.You did
include Kyle's edge on Bronco 4 to 3 (head to head). Kudos I guess. However
you left other record facts and stats off your list that represent Utah well. We
all know about the Utes and their two undefeated BCS seasons relatively
recently. I won't put the time into collecting information to
puff up the Utes and bag BYU, but there are some things on the top of my head
that paint a different picture than you are painting. Utah's bowl winning
percentage for one. Also, although you looked at overall winning
percentages since 2005, and had Bronco up one game (66-24 compared to 65-25).
Don't forget that Kyle was up until last year when Bronco's Cougars
played Idaho, Idaho State, New Mexico State, and San Jose State. BYU's
better home opponents weren't world beaters either in Utah State and
Central Florida (both games won and lost by the gift wrap both foes
delivered).Stats are relative and cut both ways.
@Mr. MootsRegarding: College Football and the Presidents have sold
out for money. They want to act like it is all about the Student Athlete and
then they chase the money as fast as every shady opportunistic Realtor out
there.Actually it really is about the student athlete. That's
EXACTLY why Chris Hill is so consumed with every penny Utah can get it's
hands on. He is out to make major improvements to all of the athletic facilities
and it's the student athlete that will benefit from those improvements. In
fact, because athletes don't get paid with anything outside of a
scholarship, this is the only way major programs can pay an athlete without
ACTUALLY paying the athlete. Welcome to the 2000's, it's
how the game is played and Utah is finding that they need to do it in order to
keep up with it's conference foes.
Thanks RoyalblueI really don't need a history lesson on Ute
basketball from U though. I have been watching it since the 70's, have
family that have played there and know quite well how the 44 season went. Do you
think Kentucky counts their title of 48 any different than 2012? Nope. The
banner in the HC reads "NCAA Champions 1944" just like Kentucky's
of 48. They played the games and won...period.The thing is, the Utes
have had teams in the final four in the 40's, 60's and 90's and
will again.Now back to the question at hand. The rivalry should
continue. It's too much fun not to. If you say other wise, you are not a
real fan of either side.
"How would you know if their TBD games would be tougher than
Utah's?"Easy answer: The ONLY teams that would
be willing to schedule a one-and-done at RES so that Utah can get that 7th home
game are cupcakes like Northern Colorado who are simply looking to get a big
paycheck for being Utah's whipping boy. Whittingham is looking
for an automatic win as "bowl-insurance" for when the Utes finish with
losing conference records.BYU, on the other hand, isn't afraid
to schedule teams that might actually be good enough to beat the Cougars in
their own lair - BYU has been scheduling the big boys to come to LES for
Everyone knows utah is knowing theyll loose to us every year. We win everything
in recruiting and then in the games. They are afraid.
Navel Vet"What kind of "big brother" has a .356 all-time
record vs. their little brother?"The big brother who grew up and
has a .617 record vs. their little brother since winning his first conference
championship 47 years ago.
utahcountyuteYou obviously failed to understand the salient point of
Rockwell's comments - the 1944 NCAA tournament was BY FAR the least
competitive tournament in NCAA tournament history.Not only was the
NCAA tournament the 2nd rate tournament in 1944, most colleges had suspended
their basketball programs, and the few remaining teams were composed mostly of
Freshman because all of their upper-classmen were busy fighting a World War.What's even more embarrassing for Utah is the Utes are the ONLY
NCAA tournament champion in history to lose THREE pickup games:Fort
Warren - 59-61Salt Lake Air Base - 39-54Dow Chemical - 36-46BYU now owns the overall series lead, 128-125, and is rapidly leaving
the Utes in the dust, having won 10 of the last 11 meetings.BYU has
won 20+ games every season during the Dave Rose era and BYU is one of only two
teams that has 25+ wins in each of the last 6 seasons.Rose EraRose 185-54(71%), 6 NCAA tournaments, 3 wins, 4 conference titles, 1 Concensus
National POYUtah 101-119(46%), 1 NCAA tournament, 0 wins, 1 conference
title, 5 losing seasons
RockwellOh, but the NIT in 51 and 66 didn't count. It was
prestigous only before 47 (the year the Utes beat Kentucky) and the NCAA
tournament became prestigious after 44. This is what I have been told by byU
"fans". I'm sure it's true.You mention this
century though. The Utes are tied with the cougs for Tournament bids at 27.
It's what the two schools have done with those bids that screams one of
these programs is not like the other. The Utes in the Sweet 16 (15) times, Elite
8 (5) times and Final four FOUR times. The cougs still have a ways
Dear Naval VetIf your own head coach is the only person to vote you
#1, (as in 2008) No that does not count as a National Championship.
ucu"The FACT is, Utah ALSO won an NIT Tournament in 1947. On the
other hand, [BYU has] NEVER won an NCAA tournament."Utah won the
1944 NCAA tournament by default; hardly any other teams in the country were
still playing basketball in 1944.The Utes only beat TWO college
teams during the ENTIRE 1943-44 regular season, and they were beaten soundly by
Kentucky in the most prestigious tournament of 1944, the NIT.--------------btw, BYU won both the 1951 and 1966 NIT tournaments,
both more recent than Utah's 1947 win.--------------In basketball news THIS CENTURY:In the new Strength of Schedule
Impact (SOSI) ranking, defined as "the positive impact each team has on its
opponents SOS, over the past 5 years, the Top 3 teams in the WCC are #4 BYU, #5
Saint Mary's and #6 Gonzaga. Only #1 Kansas, #2 Duke and #3 Memphis rank
higher in SOSI. MWC: #13 UNLV, #18 SDSU, #23 UNM; PAC 12: #39 Washington, #50
California, #53 UCLA.#27 Utah State, #77 Weber State, #163 Utah,
#196 UVU, #251 SUU.BYU is one of only 11 teams nationally to rank in
the Top 15 in BOTH RPI and SOSI.
Rockwell:"Only a clueless BYU hater would even pose such a silly
question. Idaho, San Jose State and New Mexico State won't be on
BYU's 2013 schedule, and whichever teams do fill the last 5 or 6 slots on
BYU's schedule won't be anywhere close to as pathetic as the cupcakes
Utah will schedule to fill it's remaining two slots."Seems
like you are quite the "clueless" hater yourself. I see that you were
"clueless" as to who the Indy-WACers would fill out their schedules from
2013-15. Typical hypocritical coug. How would you know if their TBD games
would be tougher than Utah's? The only game the Utes have scheduled beyond
'13 was Michigan. You think you'll do better? Based on what?
Striker:"ND gets to schedule whoever, whenever, wherever they
want and aren't confined to a conference. BYU gets to do the exact same
thing."Okay...so in other words, what you're saying is, the
Indy-WACers WANTED to schedule Idaho St, Idaho, SJSU, NMSU, Weber State, et
al.Yeah...I can see that.
BigCougar:"And to all those who say its about money, if it
really was about that don't you think the pro-Ute in-state media
would've ben able to write about what those financial benefits are? The
absence of any supporting numbers screams that its a smokescreen."That's because you were being expected to do the math yourself. Very
well then...It has been reported that Utah makes ~ $1.5 million per
home game in gate receipts. With a 6-game Home slate, that amounts to the area
of $9 million/season. But, if the Utes get an extra Home game -- which could be
the case when the Utes schedule a one-off with an FCS team, or a 2-for-1 with
their frantic and emotional little brothers from WACistan -- they would stand to
earn annual gate receipts between $10-11 million.~ $9 million <
$10-11 millionThere's your supporting numbers.
Naval Vet"Does 2012 ALSO mark the end of the Indy-WACers'
12-game schedule?"Only a clueless BYU hater would even pose such
a silly question.Watch and learn.Idaho, San Jose State
and New Mexico State won't be on BYU's 2013 schedule, and whichever
teams do fill the last 5 or 6 slots on BYU's schedule won't be
anywhere close to as pathetic as the cupcakes Utah will schedule to fill
it's remaining two slots.Of course, that doesn't even
consider the PAC 12 cupcakes that Utah fans will try to pass off as
"difficult" opponents, even though they're not even ranked in the
Top 100 - see Colorado.
BigCougar:"Current Ute success is a direct result of former BYU
great players who ute ADs had to bring in to elevate the program."Silly desperate frantic and emotional coug. Ron McBride was brought in to
elevate the Utah program back in 1990. And HE's a San Jose St. alumnus.
And then after McBride successfully elevated our program, Urban
Meyer was brought in to take it to the NEXT level, and elevate our program to
heights unseen. Meyer was a Cincinnati alumnus.After Meyer resigned
to accept the top job at Florida, Whittingham remained to backfill his position.
At this time, back in 2004, Kyle had been in SLC for 12-yrs...which is TWICE as
long as he'd spent down there in WACistan. Seems to me he's more Ute
than cougar. Must be why when given the choice, he chose to remain. While
Whittingham has been very successful, he hadn't taken the Utes to the NEXT
level like McBride and Meyer had done. But that's no fault of his own.
There hasn't been much low-hanging fruit to pick from. For Whit to elevate
the program, he'll need an NC.
Y's little brother:"No matter how successful they may
become, little brothers are constantly comparing themselves to their big
brothers."What kind of "big brother" has a .356 all-time
record vs. their little brother? What a pathetically weak elder sibling. By the way, which one of us is 25-yrs older than the other?
skywalker:"Call us the first time the Utes are legitimately
'in contention' for a national championship. So far, U've never
come close."And what number would that be wherein we could reach
you? 1-800-Indy-WAC? Utah has 2 undefeated seasons, and 2 BCS bowl trophies.
In 2008, we finished as the only undefeated team in the country, and beat FOUR
teams who finished ranked in the Final polls; TWO of whom finished in the
Top-10. Was #2 not close enough?Tell you what...why don't YOU
call US the first time the Indy-WACers are "legitimately in contention"
for an NC. And don't come back with "1984"; that wasn't
legitimate. Backing into a title with a 104th-rated SOS out of 108 D-1 teams
does NOT "legitimize" your shampionship. You guys only take credit for
it because you know you won't ever be the ACTUAL best team in the nation.
Well, THAT and the fact that college football corrected itself to ensure no
imposters ever back their way in again.
skywalkerYeah.. there are still 4 or 5 dates still open for San Jose
State, New Mezico State, Idaho State and maybe even a long standing relationship
with Idaho. byU can be the Idaho State Champs of 2013!
Y's little brother:"I know this is a hard concept for our
little friends on the hill to grasp, but 2012 marks the end of BYU playing
Idaho, San Jose State and New Mexico State..."Does 2012 ALSO
mark the end of the Indy-WACers' 12-game schedule? Because I only see 8
games on your '13 schedule, 7 games on your '14 schedule, and 5 games
on your '15. If the losers of '7 of the last 10' still intend to
schedule at least 12 games, then how can we be certain that '12 will mark
the end of playing Idaho, SJSU, NMSU, and another FCS cupcake? For all we know,
they'll be back...Indy-WAC = weak SOS
Jake2010:"BYU won the NIT when it was the premiere national
championship. Utah won the NCAA championship during that same era where the NCAA
tournament was viewed during that day as the NIT is viewed now..."The FACT is, Utah ALSO won an NIT Tournament in 1947. On the other hand, the
Indy-WACers have NEVER won an NCAA tournament.Edge: Utah.
utahcountyute"Even though the Utes crashed and burned against CU
last year, there was still a chance up until the end of the season for Utah to
play in the PAC 12 Champ game."Yes!With a
gift-wrapped PAC 12 South there for the taking - USC on probation, 5 of 9 games
at home, no Oregon or Stanford on Utah's schedule, and the other four teams
in the division all with losing records - U still couldn't get past one of
the worst teams in the country, 10-loss Colorado, AT HOME, for the
"opportunity" to get destroyed by Oregon.Congratulations!
The Utes, as you say, "crashed and burned" on perhaps their only
opportunity to win the PAC 12 South this decade.-----------------"There is no way in "Provo" any BYU "fan" can make
an good argument that an independent season is more exciting and meaningful than
a PAC 12 regular season..."Look no further than BYU 2013
schedule. Even without Utah, it's already shaping up to be more exciting
than Utah's 2013 schedule.Call us the first time the Utes are
legitimately "in contention" for a national championship. So far,
U've never come close.
Striker "BYU is able to do whatever they want, go whereever they want, see
whoever they want, and play whoever they want. They want exposure and are
getting it."I'm so glad Utah was able to clear the Y's
utahcountyute"So.. playing Idaho, San Jose State and New Mexico
State in November "works" for you?"I know this is a hard
concept for our little friends on the hill to grasp, but 2012 marks the end of
BYU playing Idaho, San Jose State and New Mexico State in November.BYU's Current 2013 ScheduleSept 7 - TexasOct 4 - @Utah
StateOct 12 - Georgia TechOct 19 - @HoustonOct 26 - Boise
StateNov 16 - @Notre DameDec 7 - @HawaiiOctober is full,
but we've saved a couple of dates for some more quality opponents in
September and November.If our little brothers ever decide to stop
running away, we might be able to fit you into one of those open dates in
September or November.Otherwise, BYU will simply move on without U.
btw...this is a Utah article about two former Utes opinions..... About a
game/rivalry that involves both schools..... So, where are you going with that?
Here is the reality about basketball. BYU won the NIT when it was the premiere
national championship. Utah won the NCAA championship during that same era where
the NCAA tournament was viewed during that day as the NIT is viewed now... In
fact posers, Utah lost in the NIT that season to even make it to the NCAA
tournament.... Google it and you won't be told anything less than what I
Big CougSo an Aggie and a Ute can be credited for all of byU's
success in the 70's and 80's? Nice"It would not have
been where it was without them."
gored"The reality is, Utah doesn't need to play BYU
anymore, but BYU is desperate to keep playing Utah each year to try to sustain
any credibility with their football schedule."sorryThe reality is BYU doesn't need Utah, and never has.BYU
football attainted national credibility without the slightest amount of help
from the Utes and long before Utah football was even a blip on the national
radar.But, you're half right. Utah fans, especially the BYU
haters who pretend to be Utah fans, are dependent on BYU to provide their
self-identify - it's what little brothers do.No matter how
successful they may become, little brothers are constantly comparing themselves
to their big brothers.
Striker and others"They do what works for them" ,
"REALITY: BYU schedules WHOEVER they want anywhere (if it's
reciprocal), just like Notre Dame does."So.. playing Idaho, San
Jose State and New Mexico State in November "works" for you? I doubt
it.Even though the Utes crashed and burned against CU last year,
there was still a chance up until the end of the season for Utah to play in the
PAC 12 Champ game. byU on the other hand will be playing some decent teams to
start out the season this year but same as last year, as soon as they lose to
Boise State, Utah, ND and GT, the season is essentially over. There
is no way in "provo" any byU "fan" can make an good argument
that an independent season is more exciting and meaningful than a PAC 12 regular
season with a conference champ and NC on the line every year. Sorry.btw...this is a Utah article about two former Utes opinions.
How about we all stick to the issue of the article? The bottom line is whether
or not the rivalry game should continue to be played. Times change, and Utah
has gone on to bigger and better things in the PAC 12. Every week is a
challenge, as opposed to the MWC when, by just showing up, you could be
guaranteed 6 wins. BYU, on the other hand, has not moved on to a better
situation. In fact, with the scheduling-uncertainty of being an
"independent", it makes for some good games (an occasional game against
Texas, Notre Dame, and Utah) and for some real losers (Idaho, Idaho State, San
Jose State, New Mexico State, Central Florida, etc.). The reality
is, Utah doesn't need to play BYU anymore, but BYU is desperate to keep
playing Utah each year to try to sustain any credibility with their football
More than a money issue, Utah wants to replace BYU with a guaranteed win against
some cupcake opponent. While playing in the PAC12 has a certain appeal to Utah
fans eager to get out from under the BYU shadow, a 5-12 record every year is not
that appealing. Utah has been relatively successful in recent years in the BYU
rivalry but in the long run can only expect a .500 outcome. Even playing a
watered down PAC12 schedule, the Utes need another easy win to be bowl eligible
year in and year out.
Naval,"Y fans might be able to "see whoever they want", but in
order to do so, they'll have to watch OTHER teams play out THEIR seasons
instead of you and yours."What are you talking about? ND gets
to schedule whoever, whenever, wherever they want and aren't confined to a
conference. BYU gets to do the exact same thing. Only Army can say they can
play anywhere in the country with EVERY SINGLE GAME. BYU is in a great place,
and don't pretend BYU is confined and limited. They do what works for
them. If you don't like it, you don't have to watch or follow them.
REALITY: BYU schedules WHOEVER they want anywhere (if it's reciprocal),
just like Notre Dame does.NO BYU fan has to watch any other team
play their season. No BYU fans cares if anyone else watches BYU's season,
but I know you'll be watching cuz you love all things BYU, as we all know.
We all appreciate your continued support to make BYU articles some of the most
read on Deseret News!
"Utah is scared to play BYU."That makes sense. I suspect
"fear" is why Weber State doesn't appear on BYU's schedule
after 2012. Look out Cougars!! Wildcats gonna getcha!
@RockYes, BYU is still carrying Utah football. Current Ute success is a
direct result of former BYU great players who ute ADs had to bring in to elevate
the program. It wouldn't be where it is today without them.@JuiceThat's just it the utes want to use that spot in the schedule
for more FCS teams and gimmes. And to all those who say its
about money, if it really was about that don't you think the pro-Ute
in-state media would've ben able to write about what those financial
benefits are? The absence of any supporting numbers screams that its a
smokescreen. The real reason has been discussed by Kyle and Chris. They're
afraid the utes will struggle getting to 6 winds every
I agree....Utah is so scared of playing BYU that they went and scheduled
Michigan........who just got done playing a BCS game, something the Cougars
would know nothing about. Its time for Utah to move on to bigger
things than ankle-biting BYU. Poor guys, must be hard getting left out in the
cold. Oh well, here is a tissue.
RobertCYou don't pay a peeny for the athletic department,
unless you are a member of the Crimson Club. BYU is owned by the LDS Church how
can the state legislature make a private school play. I want to see the game
also every year but don't think it's anything but the money. There is
no way the U can give up a home game every other year.
The rivalry will never go away. byU will always want to knock off a power
conference team and Utah will always need a mid-major opponent to pad their
schedule. It just may not work out in 2013. byU will have another shot at the
Utes in 2014... maybe:)
Re: CT98 Saint George, UT, "It is only going to get better with Utah in the
Pac 12 and BYU (they will be in a conference within the next 24 months)in their
conference. Bragging rights are on the line."I agree, once BYU
gets a conference, the U will find a way to play the game. ...just like
CougFaninTX:"If Utah swaps out BYU for another Northern Colorado
type team, they will never finish in the Top 4."Silly desperate
frantic and emotional coug. The only school Utah has added to our OOC slate was
Michigan. And aren't you guys playing Weber St? Seems a bit hypocritical
to complain about the Utes having an uninteresting FCS opponent on our schedule
when you not only have one on yours, but had actually scheduled more of the same
than Whittingham since Bronco took over. Your Bronco teams have scheduled more
WAC/FCS teams than we have, and fewer BCS-level teams to boot, and YOU'RE
complaining about OUR SOS? How embarrasssing for you."U should
be doing everything U can to strengthen not weaken your non-conference
schedule...I can see the partnership with the PAC and Big10 matching up Utah
with Northwestern, Indiana or Illinois more often than one of the power schools
of the Big10."Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what Y fans had
been saying prior to scheduling Michigan. All you're really saying is, if
we DID get NW, IND, or ILL, we'll still have a stronger SOS than the
I don't like BYu, never have, and BYu got dusted after Utah was inviited to
the PAC.. That is a fact.
Jenny83Veritas is simply laughing at the Utes for beating their
chests about beating "irrelevant" BYU and then ignoring the fact that
BYU still continues to finish in the Top 25 more often than U.
College Football and the Presidents have sold out for money. They want to act
like it is all about the Student Athlete and then they chase the money as fast
as every shady opportunistic Realtor out there.Keep it about the
game. Let the pros chase money. If you do the right thing then the money will
be there anyway.Or you can take the quick hits and continue to ruin
Striker:"BYU has a home with ESPN and able to do whatever they
want, go whereever they want, see whoever they want, and play whoever they
want."Nope. The Indy-WACers can't go anywhere they want.
Don't forget...you wanted to go to the Pac-12 since the 1970s, but you
couldn't go there. You wanted to go to the Big 12 after the Pac-12
rejected you in 2010 [and then AGAIN in 2011], but you couldn't go there.
In fact, you wanted to go there in 2012, but they were more interested in
looking at WVU, Louisville, and Cincinnati from the Big East, Florida State and
Clemson from the ACC, and Notre Dame.Y fans might be able to
"see whoever they want", but in order to do so, they'll have to
watch OTHER teams play out THEIR seasons instead of you and yours.And as far as playing whoever you wanted, one can only assume you
"wanted" to play a bunch of weak-WAC and FCS teams as the general makeup
of your schedules from the '11 season and beyond...
"The deal with Michigan is a good start, but I can see the partnership with
the PAC and Big10 matching up Utah with Northwestern, Indiana or Illinois more
often than one of the power schools of the Big10."Still a step
up from the old rivalry.
U-H Alum"I care about the 12 PAC, not lowly BYU..."yawnDon't kid yourself; you are TOTALLY and COMPLETELY
OBSESSED with BYU!You talk about BYU more than you talk about Utah,
and despite your moniker, Hawaii isn't even on your radar.
Veritas.....Really? in the last decade byu has only one 3 times against the
utes....and your beating your chest, why?
BYu is starting the worst QB in the history of BYu. He is beyond pathetic,
actually Div 3 talent.football. RudY Nelson is so
bad........heck......won't talk about him anymore. Does any soul think that
Utah is concerned about BYu? I wan't no cheap shots that will injure great
Utah-Hawaii AlumThe problem is, no matter what excuse Utah comes up
with, the Utes will be viewed as cowards for running away from BYU.Just as we saw last season, having a chance to beat BYU may be the ONLY thing
that Utah fans will have to beat their chests about going forward.If
the Utes run away from the rivalry, what are U going to brag about starting in
2014 when BYU continues to finish in the Top 25 with big games against teams
like Notre Dame, Boise State, and Texas, and Utah continues to finish unranked
in the middle of the PAC?Sorry to disappoint U, but not even
die-hard Utah fans are going to care about Utah's SOS if the Utes continue
to finish with 8-5, 7-6, 6-7, and 5-8 records.Mediocre is mediocre,
no matter what conference logo U have plastered all over the hill.
I care about the 12 PAC, not lowly YBu. They can't play at all. Bring on a
very gifted USC team at RES.........hey, they can play some ball. Do I think
that Utah will win..........NO! However, they could........Who freak'n
knows? That game will be unreal. That is a fact. If USC beats Utah........shoot,
I can live with that.
@Gored"Whether you can acknowledge it or not, Utah's
football program has owned BYU's over the years."Utah did
"own" BYU during the leather helmet era when BYU football was little
more than a club sport, but during most of the last half century, BYU has owned
U, winning 29 of the last 47 games (62%).In fact, from 1972 to 1992,
BYU won NINETEEN of 21 games, many by scores that make Utah's leather
helmet era "domination" look mild by comparison - compare 27-0, 56-6,
56-28, 17-12, and 55-7 (that's 211-53!!!) to ANY five year period of
"domination" by the Utes. U would have to go all the way back to 1922,
BYU's very first football team, to find a similar period for Utah, which
had been playing football for over a quarter century by the time BYU began
playing football. During the Bronco/Kyle era, 5 of the 7 games have
been decided by a touchdown or less in the closing seconds or in overtime.
Hardly what anybody except a crimson-glasses wearing Utah homer would call being
The tremendous history of the Rivalry game should be enough evidence that this
game should be scheduled each year. It is only going to get better with Utah in
the Pac 12 and BYU (they will be in a conference within the next 24 months)in
their conference. Bragging rights are on the line. The majority of
Fans on both sides want this game to continue. Schedule it and enjoy the
madness that will ensue.
The problem is this.....Utah is in, BYu is not. Convolute the reality of that
claim as you "choose" to do so. That BYu spin and personal opinions is
irrelevant. Evolution continues to occur. BYu mopped the floor with Utah for
many years. Now, times have changed in the 21st century. Let's hope that
Wynn can be what he was and Utah could "maybe" beat USC? They are so
talented it is a crime. I believe Utah has the speed and depth this year to be
good. However, that is why the games are played. I'm hoping for Utah, love
them, but ya never know in this world.
The local media just can't let this go. They hate this as much as BYU fans.
No matter - unlike some on this board that just can't beleive it's
over believe it - it's over. Utah has moved into a new neihborhood. The
vitriol, projected guilt and and all other hyberbole is not going to change it.
It happened with the "battle of the brothers" and now "the holy
war". Grow up, embrace it and move on.
Nebraska - Oklahoma was a huge rivalry. Gone. Texas - Texas A&M. Gone? Utah
- BYU. Gone? Penn State - Pitt. Gone.The BCS and the conference
reorganizations have destroyed a lot of rivalries. The PAC10 policy was to have
natural rivalries. USC-UCLA. Cal-Stanford. Arizona-ASU. Oregon-OSU.
Washington-WSU. Now they add Utah-Colorado. Only UCLA-USC has the intensity of
BYU-Utah. And I'm not sure about that.As a PAC10 alum
(Washington, OSU), I was surprised when the PAC excluded BYU from the expansion.
Made no sense, but it is what it is. The anti-Mormon sentiment is stronger among
Democrats than Republicans. Certainly some Bay Area schools could have been a
factor.So the rivalry will die an unnatural death. RIP. I won't
be at the funeral. I don't care.
@utehawaiialum - "Yes, with Utah's tough weekly demands in the 12
PAC." U call Arizona State, Arizona, Oregon State, UCLA,
Washington State and Colorado tough weekly demands? LOL U have one tough game
this year with USC. U have three comparable games with Cal, Washington and BYU.
The rest should be easy.If Utah swaps out BYU for another Northern
Colorado type team, they will never finish in the Top 4. In the unlikely event
that Utah beats USC and wins the South, and the unlikely event that Utah then
beats Oregon or Stanford to win the conference; there is still a strong
liklihood U could get left out of the playoffs by 2 SEC teams, 1 Big 10 team and
1 Big 12 team.In spite of what Ute fans like to think, the schedule
is really not tough with the aforementioned teams. U should be doing everything
U can to strengthen not weaken your non-conference schedule. The
deal with Michigan is a good start, but I can see the partnership with the PAC
and Big10 matching up Utah with Northwestern, Indiana or Illinois more often
than one of the power schools of the Big10.
"Hope civility returns to BYU while they look for a home." What are you talking about? BYU has a home with ESPN and able to do whatever
they want, go whereever they want, see whoever they want, and play whoever they
want. They want exposure and are getting it. They have a home. It will take 3
years to do it next year without any connection to any lame conference like the
WAC, but they have a home. Civility needs to be on both sides.
Don't just bring one school into it. How many posters just on this article
are opposing fans? Both sides need civility.
utah-hawaii dude"when will ESPN tire of BYU and dump them? That
is the million $ question... I believe it will occur sooner than later"Who should we believe, a clueless BYU hater, or ESPN?"We
try to treat our Thursday- and Friday-night football schedule the way we treat
our Monday-night football schedule in the NFL, said Ilan Ben-Hanan, ESPN’s
vice president, programming and acquisitions. "We try to put premier games
there — top matchups.""From our perspective, we think
that the ability to play on a night when no one else is playing, where the whole
rest of the college football world has their eyes on you, is a big thing... And
I think the ratings have borne that out over the years. A lot of memorable
things have happened on Thursday and Friday nights"... he pointed to
BYU’s come-from-behind win over Utah State as "another unbelievable
Friday-night game.""Going forward, BYU and the Pac-12 will
share an important role for ESPN."hmmmThe truth is,
the only ones "growing tired" of BYU on ESPN, are the jealous BYU
BYU_Aggie:"Henry Drummond: No, he actually meant when Utah
completely dropped Utah State, who stopped playing the Aggies regularly long
before BYU started 2-1 with them."What a frantic and emotional
thing to say. Utah last played the Aggies back in 2009, and they're back
on our schedule for the '12 season. So in the last 30-yrs, the Utes had
only missed them TWICE; in '10 and '11! And during that 30-yr span,
Utah played 13 games at RES; 14 games in Logan.As for the
Indy-WACers, in the last 30-yrs, they've played them 24 times...or in other
words 3 fewer than the Utes. However, the Home-and-Away split for the "Band
of '54-10' Quitters" was 15 games at LES, and 8 games in Logan.
With the '12 game ALSO scheduled at LES, this gives the cougars a 30-yr
2-for-1 scheduling model. So if the "perfection" questers have been
scheduling 2-for-1s going back to AT LEAST 1983, and the Utes only missing them
on our '10 and '11 schedules, how could we have stopped playing them
"long before" the Y's 2-1s?
Coming from So. Cal., I can say the USC-Notre Dame rivalry has no hate only
respect. On the other hand, the USC/UCLA game is horrible. I can't take my
family, especially in years that both teams are playing for conference position.
The not-eligible USC team has brought civility to L.A.Hope civility
returns to BYU while they look for a home.
@Joe Schmoeregarding: I don't buy the money issue. I think Utah
would make MORE money playing BYU on ESPN than almost any other game they will
schedule.________________First of all, that's BYU's
deal with ESPN and benefits BYU when BYU plays a home game. Secondly, Utah benefits from their own part of the PAC 12 tv deal for every
home game that's played in the conference ... and everyone of those will be
on national television, even Northern Colorado.Lastly, it's the
stadium revenue from a home game that matters the most when it comes to
scheduling that 7th home game. Most of the SEC teams schedule not just 7 home
games - like Utah is trying to do every other year - but 8 home games! Utah is
simply playing the money game they have to play to keep close to their
conference competition in revenue. I heard it estimated at 1.5 million in
revenue to Utah for every home game. When they're on a mission to upgrade
facilities across the board, that money really matters.One more note
... following the SEC model is nothing but wise when they have controlled the
BYU is Independent and happy, but the Y fans here are certainly not.
If the Utah program does sputter out like so many predict here; than the Utes
are still in the PAC-12 or in other words the big 4. This is what is killing
these protestors more than anything. BYU...join a conference.
What exposure do these schools get from playing each other? Maybe in a few
years when the WAC ans MWC labels are gone, will the exposure be good.Right now, we need to be competitive the likes of USC, Notre Dame, Texas, or
Oregon. Then we can all beat each other up.
@ Chrissy B,There is nothing "mighty" about the Y in any
fashion. And yes, I am afraid of what might happen to Utah players by BYu cheap
shots. In recent years, when BYu was getting curb stomped by FSU, TCU and
Utah.........many fans, even players from those schools complained about a
myriad of needless dangerous hits and chop blocks from BYu. Now, in no way have
I EVER thought that BYu played "dirty," before a few years ago. I'm
not so sure now????????Yes, with Utah's tough weekly demands in
the 12 PAC and now the Michigan deal..........some cupcakes are necessary,
ABSOLUTELY!!!! Utah also has a long term deal with USU, a team on the rise. Utah
doesn't need two instate games every year. They need to broaden their
recruiting ability in places like Texas and Florida for example.In
essence, a mid-major squad that plays hard like BYu is no longer in the
cards.And hey, Colorado beat us with Big 12 talent. I own the loss.
But, Montana State was better than BYu last year. That is a fact! Own BYu's
current mediocrity. OWN IT!
@gored"In basketball, Utah has won an NCAA Championship"It's interesting that U continue to beat your chest about 1944,
when Utah's worst basketball team ever, the 6-25 2012 Utes, won just as
many games as Utah's 1944 NCAA tournament winning team.
@rational jealous UThe only thing hilarious, as you put it, are your
own "facts" in presenting your argument. Whether you can acknowledge it
or not, Utah's football program has owned BYU's over the years. The
overall total of 55-34-4 speaks for itself. If you are truly a fan of the game,
you know as well as I that the 1984 "championship" was given to BYU out
of default. They were the only undefeated team in the country, and beat a
mediocre Michigan team in a minor bowl by a touchdown. That Michigan team ended
up being 6-6! Utah's 2004 and 2008 teams accomplished far more, and would
have been awarded the national championship under the same guidelines that BYU
was awarded theirs 30 years ago.And since when was Google ever
considered the definitive word on any argument? I challenge you to find a
reputable source that backs up your claim that BYU has finished in the Elite
Eight or Sweet 16 more than once. Again, Google is not accurate, and can be
changed and manipulated by anyone at any time.
Most of the posters here make good comments but a few fans on both sides need to
lighten up. First, Utah is not dropping BYU because they are afraid to play
them. Fact - U has won 7 of the last 10 and scheduled Michigan which is a much
stronger program. Second, the rivalry isn't going to fade away. Might not
play every year right now but doesn't mean the games are gone for good.
Third - this is a football article and really a reach for posting about BB
results.If there is another 54-10 type of game this year, I think
the Y fans will be glad to have a break. Focus on Boise State and ND for a
while instead ...
U-H"Utah cannot afford the possible injuries..."In other words, the poor whittle whimpy Utes are runnin' scared of
playing the mighty Cougars.Utah's "goal" is to schedule
a couple of cupcakes every year, so when they finish with their usually losing
record in the PAC 12, they can still qualify for a bowl.The Utes,
with all of their "exceptional" talent, still aren't capable of
beating pathetically bad PAC 12 opponents like 10-loss Colorado.
This year BYu has the worst November schedule in college football history,
without question. Even if the Idaho game is on a ESPN channel, who is going to
watch it? BYu's ESPN ratings were terrible last year. How is that going to
change........it won't! No prestigious conference will give the Y the time
of day, let alone an invite. So, when will ESPN tire of BYu and dump them? That
is the million $ question????????????? I believe it will occur sooner than
later, then BYu football will have a major dilemma for sure.
Talk about beating a dead horse........ Utah cannot afford the possible injuries
by BYu cheap shots. Utah's talent level is well above the Y currently and
Utah is in the 12 PAC. Utah's goals are different now and they don't
include BYu any longer. It is what it is........over!
I am all about keeping this rivalry going. Could you imagine stopping
Michigan/Ohio State, Florida/Florida State, Virginia/Virginia Tech?
Unthinkable! Why stop this rivalry? It's so FUN to have a rival. It
brings an added demension to sports. In Nebraska, their rival has been
Colorado, but they are 7 hours away from each other. When it stopped when they
moved conferences, no one in Nebraska really seemed to care. They weren't
true rivals. I see teams like Nebraska, Boise, and Tulsa who don't have a
true rival and those fans miss out on an added dimension to being a fan. Having
a rival makes one game (sometimes 2-3)a year for each sport more emotional and
more enjoyable. It can bring you down or bring you high. This rivalry has been
around before any of us were even alive. Why stop it because you move
conferences? Personally, I'll have a bitter taste in my mouth towards Utah
if they decide they are higher than the rivalry and form that SEC mentality that
out of conference games can't be too tough. GIVE ME A BREAK! Keep the
rivalry and keep the emotions high!
It's not about money. Both schools make out well selling shirts, flags,
stickers etc... during that week. It's a very cheap road trip. It's
not about scheduling down, as we see Utah scheduling Michigan. It is about
exposure, see Michigan again. But mostly, I believe, it is Utah sticking it to
BYU. Utah understands, even if most cougar fans don't want to
admit it, that BYU needs the rivalry game more than Utah does right now.
It's in Utah's best interest for in state recruiting to let BYU
struggle to fill LES every week with good opponents. Cougar fans claim they can
schedule anyone they want, especially in September. But look how many of those
are 2 for 1s. When BYU is playing some WAC team and Utah is playing a PAC12
team most of the eyes in the state are on Utah.
It's a stupid GAME...not life or death. Too much emphasis is
placed on the rivalry that has, over time, turned to hatred.Campuses
have to be practically locked down; opposing fans are cursed at, spit on,called disgusting names; players are harassed and their families intimidated;
the media inflame the rivalry through biased journalism; students and alumni on
both sides celebrate a win as if they are prideful victors that have slaughtered
a terrible enemy, and glumly take a loss as an intensely personal affront that
diminishes their very being... All of that for what? A stupid GAME.
Another article about the rivalry? Can we please move on to something else?As a season ticket holder I personally can't wait until #1 USC
visits @RES!Go UTES!
@Veritas AequitasYou are wrong about Utah being running to hide. Although there are people on both sides who are tired of the rivalry
(myself included), the game is wanted by the red and blue for the most part. Utah has a dilemma. With 9 conference games, Utah has 3 games left to
play with. There will always be one patsie, then Utah will have a BIG 10
opponent, and one more recruiting game. That one game might be BYU sometimes.The Cougars won't except a 2 for 1. Why would they? I
wouldn't. However, to keep the game going without a hiccup year, BYU will
need to play at Rice Eccles in 2012 and 2013. After that, maybe we go back to
alternating years.The reason for the next two years needing to be in
SLC is because the game is scheduled in SLC next year, and in 2013 Utah has 5
conference road games. Thus Utah needs two of their three non conference games
to be at home.Schedules and their ramifications are more complicated
than many realize. BYU has a strong September schedule. They need
help in November, but Utah can't oblige there.
Let it die out. BYU doesn't have much to gain with these games.
GoRedIt's hillarious how Utah fans constantly pretend that
college football history began the same year college basketball history ended
2004/2005.Comparing records during the current Bronco/Kyle and Dave
Rose eras:FOOTBALLTop 25 FinishesBronco 5Kyle 3Top 15 FinishesBronco 3Kyle 110+ Win SeasonsBronco 5Kyle 3Conference ChampionshipsBronco 2Kyle 1Head-to-headBronco 3Kyle 4OverallBronco 66-24Kyle 65-25================BASKETBALL20+ Win SeasonsRose 7Utah 1NCAA
TournamentsRose 6Utah 1Conference ChampionshipsRose 4Utah 1Head-to-headRose 11Utah 3OverallRose 185-54(71%)Utah 101-119(46%)In light of
these very telling facts, Utah's basketball program is indeed a
"joke", and Utah's football program still trails BYU, even during a
relatively quiet period for BYU football.
GoRed,So while you are going back to Fred Flintstone and Barney
Rubble days on the hill for the football record, how about acknowledging the
'70s, 80's and 90's when BYU dominated, and more to the point,
while you admiring that 1944 NCAA basketball championship (btw, 1947 NIT with
many of the same starters. Ute fans can't acknowledge that because then
they would have to acknowledge BYU's 1951 and 1966 championships, but I
digress), then why not go to Provo and admire BYU's NCAA Football
CHAMPIONSHIP Trophy?Oh, and at least get your facts straight. I
don't even have to google to know BYU has been to the sweet 16 twice. Oh
wait, I did Google it. Final 8 three times, final 16 seven times.Your facts aren't telling, they are selective.Look, 7 of 10
gets the job done. Utah has current edge, but still two top 25 football
programs. Good for them. Not bad for a state with 1% of the US Population.Also, Utah and BYU both have fine basketball traditions, and BYU has the
recent edge there.
Whatever anybody thinks as to whether the rivalry should continue, we all
recognize that the games ALWAYS mattered, were always meaningful and were always
intense. In other words, they were always fun. Other than bowl games, how often
did fans of either school congregate at somebody's home with a big screen
and all the food to watch any other game. Sure, there are fans who have a group
party for every game, but for BYU/Utah the get-togethers were ritual and nearly
universal.I think people should inundate Chris Hill with email and
snail mail to let him know how the regular people think. Don't focus on the
nastiness. You don't have to read the comments to articles in the Tribune,
and I really doubt any Cougar fans get beer dumped on them at RES, and I know
for a fact that I was able to take my Ute-fan buddy to LES with him decked out
in full Utah regalia and nobody said anything negative to him. We
need this game at the end of the year. Even a 2 - 9 season is validated for the
@veritas aequitasYou write "Utah athletics continues to be an
in-state joke". Really? Utah's football team destroyed BYU's by
44 points last year at BYU's stadium. Utah has beaten BYU's 3 out of
the last 4 years, 7 out of the last 10 years, and holds an overall 55-34-4
advantage. In basketball, Utah has won an NCAA Championship, has
been to the Chanpionship game twice, has 4 Final Four appearances, and has been
to the Sweet 16 ten times. Let's compare Utah's record to BYU's.
The Y has no NCAA Championships, no appearances in the Championship game, no
Final Four appearances, and has been to the Sweet 16 exactly once.In
light of these very telling facts, if Utah's teams are a "joke" as
you say, what does this say about your BYU teams?
I doubt either one really cares.
Who really cares?? I can see a clear path wherein Utah's football program
is diminished to nothing. At the end of the day... and in the big scheme of
things ... football doesn't mean much. Utah will find that, in the end, it
cannot please everybody nor can it be the competitive team its fans want it to
be. You can't have mediocre recruits and end up with a good football
Veritas,That "in-state joke program" you referred to
currently owns the Cougars :)You must be having a bad day because
your posts are usually thought out a little better. Utah's football
program has been gaining momentum for the past 10 years, and up until a few
years ago the Utes have been mainstays in the NCAA b-ball tournament. I hope
the hoops tradition returns to the U soon. But lets not kid ourselves, Utah
definitely has the upper hand on BYU in football right now.
Who really cares?? I can see a clear path wherein BYU's football program
is diminished to nothing. At the end of the day... and in the big scheme of
things ... football doesn't mean much. BYU will find that, in the end, it
cannot please everybody nor can it be the 'Lord's university' and
have a good football program; both.
@ Veritas AequitasFruit Heights, UTLOL.Need a
I am more than okay to let this thing die a natural death. I
detested going to those games. Too much hate on both sides.Go
Vertias me a break. BYU never carried Utah. BYU is in it for themselves;
always have been. In the 80s all the Y talk was how the Y was going to be
leaving for the PAC 10; I grew up in Utah so I remember such baseless ramblings.
If you still disagree go ahead and list all the way Y fan delusion thinks BYU
" carried Utah." Oh brother the desperation of Y fans has hit and all
time high or would that be low. How about BYU quits trying to hold Utah back
and does it on their on. If they are so great and mighty (though they
can't seem to beat the Utes) Utah dropping them should be no big deal
though we know Idaho State, Idaho and New Mexico State paints a far different
picture. BYU fans talk a good talk; time to follow through and quit worrying
about what the Utes as it all is bit too desperate at this point, though I
Everyone needs to relax! The game will continue somehow, some way. The fans on
both sides that say they don't need, want the game are simply in need of
help themselves. It may go a year without but the supporters won't stand
for it not being played. If BYU wants another dose, the Utes should oblige.
Until BYU gets into a great conference, the recruiting gap will widen. BYU will
occasionally win a game but Utah will win the majority of the games in football.
It may be "murder" as you put it, but Utah cannot trade any
non-conference games for just anybody anymore. Most of the schedule is already
decided by default. The rivalry will end, even if some don't want it to.
Truth is, Utah wants any excuse not to play BYU.tah cannot stand on their own
two feet in the state.As long as BYU has carried Utah on their back,
Utah is now ready to "pretend" they don't need the game.Utah is, has been, and will be only as good as the Utah - BYU game.Utah's seaon has always been defined by the holy war. Take that out, and
who in the state cares about Utah football?---That being
said, I hope Utah runs the other way, as BYU "competes" against any
major program willing to schedule the better institution, while Utah cowers and
prepares for Colorado.Utah athletics continues to be an in-state
joke.If they run and hide, the joke gets bigger and better for BYU
motorbikeA couple of losing seasons with no bowls and half-empty
stadiums for the one-and-done cupcakes Utah will have to schedule to get those
7th games, and the Utes will be begging BYU to revive the seriers to help the
Utes refill RES; all you have to do is look up the hill to the HC to see how
quickly Utah fans desert their teams as soon as they hits the skids - it's
only a question of "when".
@Henry Drummond: No, he actually meant when Utah completely dropped Utah State,
who stopped playing the Aggies regularly long before BYU started 2-1 with them.
Ever heard of "Battle of the Brothers?" Google it. Utah is
quite experienced at ending rivalry games.
Bottom line is this: Money. When Utah left to the Pac12 (and who wouldn't
have rejected that offer?) the rivalry was done right there. The fans ruin it
past that point by thinking they are mightier and better than the other. I see
this particularly from Utah fans who now that they are in the Pac12, they are
better than BYU. Comparing the 2:1 arrangement BYU and Utah State have
isn't even close to an apples comparison. If Utah State brought 45-60,000
fans to their stadium, it would be different, but they don't. And back to
my first point. Why would it be different? Money. Unfortunately, rivalries
and killed over money and this is another one that will be lost in the shuffle
for the all important and greedy dollar. It has ruined pro sports and now it is
ruining college sports. It's a shame!
This will work itself out eventually. Let's just get some football going!
Not sure we care what Meyer thinks....
I don't buy the money issue. I think Utah would make MORE money playing
BYU on ESPN than almost any other game they will schedule. Someone tell me how
my thinking is wrong.I think in reality Utah sees playing BYU as a
tougher game than they want to schedule out of league play. They know that they
will struggle to get as many wins in the pac 12 that they used to get in the MWC
so the out of conf. games take on MUCH more significance when they look at
needing 6 wins for a bowl bid. Why take a chance on BYU when they can schedule
a sure thing?
It's sad to see Utah bullied by their conference overlords. You will NOT
play your rival on rivalry week. In fact, you should NOT play them at all. Oh,
and by the way, you WILL open your campus to athletic events on Sundays, even
though half of your fans would rather not be there on that day.
Praxis-That is what rivalries are. "Been there done that". That makes
them rivalries. You you don't throw it away for that reason. Hateful?
yep. Mean? sometimes. Spiteful? Heck yes. FUN? always. Chris Hill is an
egotistical clown. Whitt, big red nose and floppy feet as well.
RobertC,The Utah State Legislature is highly conservative, overly
conservative in fact. Mandates do not fall into ideological lunacy.
Utah - BYU game and rivalry.Been there, done that, got the t-shirt -
it's time to move on.
This is something both U and Y fans can agree on. Let’s put it on the
ballot this coming election and let the people who pay for the schools decide.
I'm only kind of kidding when I think that maybe ... just maybe... the
state legislator or governor could jump in here and mandate that Uof U plays BYU
every year. It is my taxes that pay for the school...
Seriously…, Why Not? Money is the ONLY reason holding it back. I freakin
pay for that school up on the hill and I want a UofU-BYU game every year.
"BYU not playing Utah..."Sorry Meyer, it is Utah who
doesn't want to play BYU.
As much as everyone wants to make this about Utah scheduling down or running
away from BYU because the rest of the schedule is so difficult, it's really
all about money - period. It's hard to argue with going after
that extra home game when every other year when Utah's at the bottom of the
money pool in the Pac 12. With as much emphasis is now placed on facilities and
"wowing" the recruit, every penny Utah can get it's hands on is
important.That said ... this is one Ute fan that says don't let
the rivalry suffer because of money. This game not only needs to be played every
year, I agree with Alex Smith, it belongs at the END of the year. Chris Hill
needs to start pushing back with the Pac 12 on this and figure out a way to play
BYU in the last or second to last game of the season. I'm sure Colorado and
CSU would welcome this same thing.Go Utes.
Unfortunitely its not about Utah and BYU fans. Its about the money. It would
take a gutsy move by Utah to schedule BYU going forward. But it is not likely to
happen. If roles were reversed I also am not sure if it would happen. But long
term it would be best for both schools. For BYU strength of schedule and for
Utah fund raising.
"Others swear it would be murder in the first degree, thanks to an
unwillingness to help an old opponent."Do you mean BYU dropping
the Utah State rivalry and then only agreeing to play them a two for one basis?