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Brad Rock: Meyer, Smith contend BYU-Utah rivalry game is a must

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  • Drum and Feather Salt Lake City, UT
    July 10, 2012 9:42 a.m.

    I'm not really sure why so many of my fellow Utah fans think Utah is going to be much better than what we saw last year? Sure I'm hopefull but there is no real evidence that they will be. As of today they still have a pretty terrible QB situation with an injury prone starter, a D2 backup, and a couple of freshman behind them. There is no way to spin that as good.

    Our new offensive coordinator is very young and does not have a single bit of experience, not to mention he didn't exactly set the world on fire as a qb coach. We did have a pretty easy schedule last year and still finished with a losing record in the conference. Frankly we lucked out in our bowl game.

    Optimism is a great thing, but just being optimistic despite the reality of things is kind of foolish.

    And SoCalUtahFan your list of possible wins and probable losses is so far out there that no one can read it and take it seriously. Utah is a mid tier PAC 12 program, and probably always will be. Our geography and budget guaranty it.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 9, 2012 11:18 p.m.

    Utah Alum

    Most Utah fans couldn't cite the score of last season's Utah-USC game without looking it up, but every Utah fan knows the score of last season's BYU-Utah game.

    -----------

    Yet it's BYU fans holding the slogans: "Harline is still open", "4th and 18", and "George is still running."

    54-10... PRICELESS!!

  • Utah Alum Orem, UT
    July 9, 2012 7:12 p.m.

    "the only way the Y vs U game is a must going forward is if BYU gets into the Big 12 otherwise who cares...."

    You do; and so does every other Utah fan, whether you want to admit or not.

    Utah fans can't help themselves from comparing Utah to BYU.

    The constant citations of the score of last season's game is proof of that.

    Most Utah fans couldn't cite the score of last season's Utah-USC game without looking it up, but every Utah fan knows the score of last season's BYU-Utah game.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    July 9, 2012 6:19 p.m.

    the only way the Y vs U game is a must going forward is if BYU gets into the Big 12 otherwise who cares....

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 9, 2012 12:58 p.m.

    I agree Ufan. There is room for improvement. The reason I am optimistic that we will see improvement is because Utah football is pretty good at doing more with less. I think Utah will be able to take advantage of the luxuries provided by the PAC-12.

  • Ufan Salt Lake City, UT
    July 9, 2012 11:22 a.m.

    Two For Flinching

    "Utah did alright in its first season"

    As a Utah fan I expect MUCH MORE than "alright".

    Two home losses to conference foes with losing records, including that humiliating loss to 10-loss Colorado isn't even alright. The Utes played six PAC 12 teams with losing records and only managed to beat four of them to finish 4-5 and not even win the pathetically weak PAC 12 South.

    There's no guarantee that increased money, facilities and recruiting will improve Utah's record. The Utes still lag well behind every other team in the PAC 12 and don't even rank in the upper half of the conference in recruiting.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 8, 2012 11:39 p.m.

    A lot of wishful thinking from BYU fans going on here. Nobody knows who will win (especially in 2013) which is the reason they play the game.

    Utah did alright in its first season and I don't see any reason why the Utes won't improve their record in conf. with the recent increases in money, facilities, and recruiting.

  • Jenny83 OGDEN, UT
    July 8, 2012 6:53 p.m.

    BYU VS. UTAH 2012 .....BYU LOSS ........just like it has been 70% of the time the last decade.

  • Jenny83 OGDEN, UT
    July 8, 2012 6:45 p.m.

    All I know is that in the last 10 years Byu has only managed to win 3 games against the Utes..Byu is pathetic

  • MUSSing with U Baltimore, MD
    July 8, 2012 2:50 p.m.

    Utah is looking at at worst 2 or 3 losses

    lol, keep dreaming

    Utah will have at least 4 losses and could have as many as 6 or 7.

    @USC - guaranteed loss
    UCLA - possible loss
    @Stanford - guaranteed loss
    Oregon - very probable loss
    @WSU - very possible loss
    Washington - possible loss
    @Arizona - probable win
    ASU - probable loss
    Colorado - possible loss

  • SoCalUtahFan Irvine, CA
    July 8, 2012 9:55 a.m.

    scott...your math is fuzzy at best.
    Here is real math:

    @USC - possible loss
    UCLA - win
    @Stanford - possible loss
    Oregon - possible win
    @WSU - win
    Washington - win
    @Arizona - probable win
    ASU - win
    Colorado - win

    Utah is looking at at worst 2 or 3 losses in a very tough conference schedule
    assume "upsets" in loss/win cancelling have the same probability.

    2014 will be with the same conference schedule, reverese in home-and-away, and yet
    Utah schedules Michigan.

    Face it, Utah does not need BYU as much as BYU needs Utah on the schedule now.

  • MUSSing with U Baltimore, MD
    July 7, 2012 11:57 p.m.

    Little brothers

    It's the same big brother who actually has a legacy of National Championships and Heisman Trophy Winners and National College Football Hall of Fame Players and National Individual Awards and being a perennial Top 25 team for the past four decades, something our little brothers can't possibiliy understand because their trophy case is completely empty of any of the national awards expected of a legacy program.

    For all of their leather helmet era "greatness", the Utes didn't have a single accomplishment on a national scale before BYU and Utah joined the WAC in 1962.

    Even then, Utah football was so inept that it took the Utes another thirty years before they finally cracked the Top 25 in both polls for the very first time.

    The monumental difference between Utah's leather helmet era of dominance and BYU's modern day era of dominance, is BYU actually accomplished something on a national scale.

    Call us when Utah wins its first "nations best" at ANYTHING in football national award.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 7, 2012 8:33 p.m.

    Solomon the Frantic and Emotional:

    "The big brother who grew up and has a .617 record vs. their little brother since winning his first conference championship 47 years ago."

    Isn't that the same "big brother" who has since posted a .300 record vs. their "little brother" over the past 10 years? That's even worse than your .356. Doesn't look like you've made a very good case for yourself there.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 7, 2012 8:29 p.m.

    Oh my goodness??????? BYu is not arrogant? HAHAHAHA! They are the quintessential example of such a trait. The fact is that everyone is tired of BYu and how they act, EVERYONE. That has been proven. No BCS conference will give BYu the time of day, and the prestigious top 4 won't return Tom Holmoe's frantic calls. Enjoy that entertaining November schedule Y fans.........the worst in college football history.

  • LOTR Baltimore, MD
    July 7, 2012 7:48 p.m.

    Utah is in a tough situation with the rivalry. The Utes know that can't avoid playing BYU without looking like cowards, but they've also realized after their first year in the PAC 12 that they're not nearly as competitive as they thought they would be, so they're faced with a dilemma.

    Pretend that they're too good for BYU and look like cowards for running away.

    Play BYU and risk losing and not even qualifying for a bowl.

    Either way, all their talk about being a "big boy" is sounding more and more hollow every day.

  • scott Alpine, UT
    July 7, 2012 5:33 p.m.

    SoCalUtahFan

    The real truth is, the math simply doesn't work out for Utah to play BYU in 2013 and still qualify for a bowl.

    @USC - probable loss
    UCLA - probable win
    @Stanford - probable loss
    Oregon - probable loss
    @WSU - probable win
    Washington - probable loss
    @Arizona - probable win
    ASU - probable loss
    Colorado - probable win

    With 5 probable losses already on the schedule, adding a 6th probable loss to BYU would put Utah's bowl hopes in serious jeopardy for 2013 and would make Utah's bowl hopes in 2014 and beyond even more doubtful with a Big Ten team being added to the schedule.

    Without a couple of guaranteed OOC home wins against a couple of cupcakes, the Utes could disappear completely from the bowl picture.

    Worrying about SOS is the least of Utah's concerns because the Utes will never be in contention for a playoff berth anyway.

  • CG Orem, UT
    July 7, 2012 4:58 p.m.

    Say what you want, SoCalUtahFan, but the truth is, Utah is running away from the rivalry because Coach Whittingham and Dr. Hill understand that Utah simply isn't good enough to play a PAC 12 schedule and a Big Ten opponent and still finish with enough wins to qualify for a bowl game.

    Watching BYU playing in a bowl game while the Utes were once again staying home for the holidays would bring back nightmares of the 70's and 80's for Utah fans and be disastrous for the fragile psyche of Utedom.

    Scheduling a couple of OOC patsies is Utah's only option to avoiding 5-7 seasons and no bowls, which could send Utah's football program into the same disastrous tailspin as their basketball program.

    Colorado will continue to play their PAC 12 schedule, and a Big Ten foe, and their natural rival, Colorado State, but Utah's fragile program simply can't handle the challenge.

  • SoCalUtahFan Irvine, CA
    July 7, 2012 4:25 p.m.

    say what you want...
    The truths:

    Utah will stop playing BYU after this year....
    In 2014-2015: Utah replaced the game with Michigan.
    After that, there will be other big-10 schools that Utah looks to sign.

    bottom line:
    Mid-majors who want to schedule games with the big BCS boys will have to
    sign contract in the big boy's terms.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    July 7, 2012 4:02 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum

    This is a difficult fact for Utah fans... but Utah's arrogance will eventually come back to bite U big time. Most BYU fans would like to see the rivalry continue, but the reality is, BYU doesn't need U, and never has.

    Run away from the rivally now, and U may find that BYU no longer has any interest in playing U when those losing seasons in the PAC 12 start to pile up and RES starts to look like a ghostown - see the HC.

    Be careful what U wish for.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    July 7, 2012 3:45 p.m.

    "Utah trades BYU for Michigan..."

    lol

    Utah did no such thing.

    Utah has openings for THREE OOC opponents on its schedule - Michigan and Utah State are only two.

    The definition of COWARDICE will be revealed by the cupcake Utah schedules to replace BYU.

  • SoCalUtahFan Irvine, CA
    July 7, 2012 3:30 p.m.

    @phoenix
    "Utah not playing BYU is not a mistake"
    It's just plain and simple...
    COWARDICE!

    hahaha...Coward? Utah trades BYU for Michigan..
    and other big-10 schools.

    Even with Northern Colorado is an even trade...

    Not sure where you get your definition of cowardice.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    July 7, 2012 2:57 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum

    "Utah is ranked 9th all time"

    yawn

    The rundown Utes are a "has been" that was destroyed in its only NCAA tournament game in the last seven years.

    Since 2005 - 101-119(46%) overall, 47-67(41%) conference, 5 losing seasons, 3-11 versus BYU (only 1 win in the last 11 meetings)

    In Utah's first season in the PAC 12, the Utes(6-25) finished 2nd to last, ranked #294 in Sagarin, lost AT HOME to San Diego Christian (a school of only 500 students), and had their fewest wins since 1944.

    9th ranked???

    Utah was ranked DEAD LAST in the State of Utah last season

    #40 BYU
    #124 USU
    #135 WSU
    #233 UVU
    #239 SUU
    #294 Utah

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 7, 2012 2:56 p.m.

    This is a difficult fact for BYu fans..........Uh, uh, uh.........the ONLY way that bYu plays the U again
    will be Utah's decision. That is true. Utah is in the game.........we all know that!

  • PACute_ Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 7, 2012 2:24 p.m.

    "Utah is in the big time"

    yada yada yada

    PRETENDERS get dominated AT HOME by 10-loss teams.

    Big time programs don't.

    BYU has NEVER lost to a 10-loss team at home.
    Utah lost to a 10-loss team in their last home game.

    Utah, in all honesty is all talk, but no walk.

    Call us when you actually accomplish something in your big boy conference.

    -----------------

    "why do so many BYU fans complain about Utah playing UNC? Heck, BYU is playing Weber State in week #2."

    #136 Weber State(5-6) is an instate rival that will generate some local interest and will at least provide a challenge on the field

    #209 Northern Colorado(0-11) is a team most Utah fans couldn't even locate on the map and will be nothing more than a practice dummy for the Utes

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 7, 2012 1:59 p.m.

    BYu was really good years ago. Now, it is over for bYu.. I think that is a fair statement, and the reality.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 7, 2012 1:26 p.m.

    Shoot, BYu will get lit-up by Waxzu for sure. Who does BYu have that will stop a Leach "air raid?" Wazzu has some great talent. BYu does not.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 7, 2012 1:04 p.m.

    Utah, in all honesty, will be ready for to play USC. That should be a great game. USC in loaded. I hope Utah wins, and that is possible, as I see it.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 7, 2012 11:28 a.m.

    Additionally, why do so many Y fans complain about Utah playing UNC? Heck, BYu is playing Weber State in week #2. I think BYu needs wins to appear as relevant is all........Utah needs a warm-up contest. Playing Utah State in Logan will NOT be easy for the Utes. USU could beat Utah in my opinion. I believe it is a "trap game" actually.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 7, 2012 11:16 a.m.

    No wonder Utah will NOT negotiate with BYu. Maybe Utah will throw them a bone in 2014, but whY? Hey, Utah doesn't care and YBu doesn't matter. Utah State is a better team and Utah has their hands full with the 12 PAC and now mighty Michigan. Honestly, Utah had better come prepared.......or they will get beaten.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 7, 2012 10:55 a.m.

    There is some funny basketball talk happening on this thread...... Utah is ranked 9th all time. Utah is also 35-30 in the NCAA tourney that ranks 7th all-time. They also rank 5th in regular season conference championships. BYu is 14-30 in that tourney. Utah is ranked 9th in NCAA basketball history. BYu is not on the charts. It really is the stats.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 7, 2012 10:45 a.m.

    Utah is in the big time, facing talent that has proven to be difficult. Utah will pound a very substandard BYu squad again this year. Who cares? Utah State is way better and I hope the U can beat them? They talk about "fitness" at BYu now. Wow? It does not matter at all. BYu has Kyle Van Noy is all. Heck, Utah has 20 players better than him. Utah has to get wonderful recruits........the competition is tough in the 12 PAC. My hope is Utah plays USU and abandons BYu.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    July 7, 2012 9:44 a.m.

    "Utah not playing BYU is not a mistake"

    It's just plain and simple...

    COWARDICE!

  • SoCalUtahFan Irvine, CA
    July 7, 2012 9:35 a.m.

    ...BYU not playing Utah, to me that is a major mistake...

    but Utah not playing BYU is not a mistake.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    July 7, 2012 9:22 a.m.

    gdog

    Sorry, U can't have it both ways - claim you're one of the big boys, then whine about having to play a "more difficult" schedule.

    If the Utes had beaten all of their opponents with LOSING records, U would have finished with the same number of wins as BYU, and the Utes would have finished 6-3 in the conference and won the PAC 12 South.

    Don't blame BYU's "weaker" schedule, for the Utes not being good enough to beat mediocre Washington(7-6), Arizona State(6-7), and California(7-6), and pathetic Colorado(3-10).

    Arizona State completely collapsed the last two months of the season, losing 7 of their final 8 games after beating Utah. Ironically, they destroyed Colorado(48-14).

    Colorado was awful the entire season, yet U were dominated by both of them, AT HOME.

    Colorado was on a school-record 23-game road losing streak, yet at halftime, the Buffs led 10-0 and held a 254-39 total-yardage advantage and 11 1/2-minute edge in time of possession. The Utes didn't get their initial first down until the 2:56 mark of the second quarter.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    July 7, 2012 1:04 a.m.

    gdog3finally

    Except for 2005, when Kyle was only a year removed from Utah's undefeated 2004 season and Bronco was rebuilding from Crowton's disaster, Bronco has led or been tied with Kyle head-to-head, and has led overall, at the end of most seasons.

    2005
    Bronco 6-6 unranked
    Kyle 7-5 unranked, Utah win in OT (1-0 Utah)

    2006
    Bronco 11-2, 17-8 overall, #16/#15 MWC Champion, BYU win (1-1 tied)
    Kyle 8-5, 15-10 overall, unranked

    2007
    Bronco 11-2, 28-10 overall, #14/#15 MWC Champion, BYU win (2-1 BYU)
    Kyle 9-4, 24-14 overall, unranked

    2008
    Bronco 10-3, 38-13 overall, #25/#21
    Kyle 13-0, 37-14 overall, #2/#4 MWC Champion, Utah win (2-2 tied)

    2009
    Bronco 11-2, 49-15 overall, #12/#12, BYU win (3-2 BYU)
    Kyle 10-3, 47-17 overall, unranked

    2010
    Bronco 7-6, 56-21 overall, unranked
    Kyle 10-3, 57-20 overall, unranked/#23, Utah win (3-3 tied)

    2011
    Bronco 10-3, 66-24 overall, unranked/#25
    Kyle 8-5, 65-25 overall, unranked, Utah win (4-3 Utah), lost to a 10-loss team

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    July 6, 2012 10:33 p.m.

    @Jealous U

    You display some records that look good for BYU. From what I see, they are legit, but they are not the full picture.

    You did include Kyle's edge on Bronco 4 to 3 (head to head). Kudos I guess. However you left other record facts and stats off your list that represent Utah well. We all know about the Utes and their two undefeated BCS seasons relatively recently.

    I won't put the time into collecting information to puff up the Utes and bag BYU, but there are some things on the top of my head that paint a different picture than you are painting. Utah's bowl winning percentage for one.

    Also, although you looked at overall winning percentages since 2005, and had Bronco up one game (66-24 compared to 65-25). Don't forget that Kyle was up until last year when Bronco's Cougars played Idaho, Idaho State, New Mexico State, and San Jose State. BYU's better home opponents weren't world beaters either in Utah State and Central Florida (both games won and lost by the gift wrap both foes delivered).

    Stats are relative and cut both ways.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 6, 2012 9:45 p.m.

    @Mr. Moots

    Regarding: College Football and the Presidents have sold out for money. They want to act like it is all about the Student Athlete and then they chase the money as fast as every shady opportunistic Realtor out there.

    Actually it really is about the student athlete. That's EXACTLY why Chris Hill is so consumed with every penny Utah can get it's hands on. He is out to make major improvements to all of the athletic facilities and it's the student athlete that will benefit from those improvements. In fact, because athletes don't get paid with anything outside of a scholarship, this is the only way major programs can pay an athlete without ACTUALLY paying the athlete.

    Welcome to the 2000's, it's how the game is played and Utah is finding that they need to do it in order to keep up with it's conference foes.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    July 6, 2012 9:13 p.m.

    Thanks Royalblue

    I really don't need a history lesson on Ute basketball from U though. I have been watching it since the 70's, have family that have played there and know quite well how the 44 season went. Do you think Kentucky counts their title of 48 any different than 2012? Nope. The banner in the HC reads "NCAA Champions 1944" just like Kentucky's of 48. They played the games and won...period.

    The thing is, the Utes have had teams in the final four in the 40's, 60's and 90's and will again.

    Now back to the question at hand. The rivalry should continue. It's too much fun not to. If you say other wise, you are not a real fan of either side.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    July 6, 2012 7:11 p.m.

    "How would you know if their TBD games would be tougher than Utah's?"

    Easy answer:

    The ONLY teams that would be willing to schedule a one-and-done at RES so that Utah can get that 7th home game are cupcakes like Northern Colorado who are simply looking to get a big paycheck for being Utah's whipping boy.

    Whittingham is looking for an automatic win as "bowl-insurance" for when the Utes finish with losing conference records.

    BYU, on the other hand, isn't afraid to schedule teams that might actually be good enough to beat the Cougars in their own lair - BYU has been scheduling the big boys to come to LES for decades.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    July 6, 2012 6:41 p.m.

    Everyone knows utah is knowing theyll loose to us every year. We win everything in recruiting and then in the games. They are afraid.

  • Solomon the Wise Alpine, UT
    July 6, 2012 6:17 p.m.

    Navel Vet

    "What kind of "big brother" has a .356 all-time record vs. their little brother?"

    The big brother who grew up and has a .617 record vs. their little brother since winning his first conference championship 47 years ago.

  • royalblue Alpine, UT
    July 6, 2012 5:52 p.m.

    utahcountyute

    You obviously failed to understand the salient point of Rockwell's comments - the 1944 NCAA tournament was BY FAR the least competitive tournament in NCAA tournament history.

    Not only was the NCAA tournament the 2nd rate tournament in 1944, most colleges had suspended their basketball programs, and the few remaining teams were composed mostly of Freshman because all of their upper-classmen were busy fighting a World War.

    What's even more embarrassing for Utah is the Utes are the ONLY NCAA tournament champion in history to lose THREE pickup games:

    Fort Warren - 59-61
    Salt Lake Air Base - 39-54
    Dow Chemical - 36-46

    BYU now owns the overall series lead, 128-125, and is rapidly leaving the Utes in the dust, having won 10 of the last 11 meetings.

    BYU has won 20+ games every season during the Dave Rose era and BYU is one of only two teams that has 25+ wins in each of the last 6 seasons.

    Rose Era
    Rose 185-54(71%), 6 NCAA tournaments, 3 wins, 4 conference titles, 1 Concensus National POY
    Utah 101-119(46%), 1 NCAA tournament, 0 wins, 1 conference title, 5 losing seasons

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    July 6, 2012 4:33 p.m.

    Rockwell

    Oh, but the NIT in 51 and 66 didn't count. It was prestigous only before 47 (the year the Utes beat Kentucky) and the NCAA tournament became prestigious after 44. This is what I have been told by byU "fans". I'm sure it's true.

    You mention this century though. The Utes are tied with the cougs for Tournament bids at 27. It's what the two schools have done with those bids that screams one of these programs is not like the other. The Utes in the Sweet 16 (15) times, Elite 8 (5) times and Final four FOUR times.

    The cougs still have a ways to go.

  • J W springville, UT
    July 6, 2012 4:23 p.m.

    Dear Naval Vet

    If your own head coach is the only person to vote you #1, (as in 2008) No that does not count as a National Championship.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    July 6, 2012 3:20 p.m.

    ucu

    "The FACT is, Utah ALSO won an NIT Tournament in 1947. On the other hand, [BYU has] NEVER won an NCAA tournament."

    Utah won the 1944 NCAA tournament by default; hardly any other teams in the country were still playing basketball in 1944.

    The Utes only beat TWO college teams during the ENTIRE 1943-44 regular season, and they were beaten soundly by Kentucky in the most prestigious tournament of 1944, the NIT.

    --------------

    btw, BYU won both the 1951 and 1966 NIT tournaments, both more recent than Utah's 1947 win.

    --------------

    In basketball news THIS CENTURY:

    In the new Strength of Schedule Impact (SOSI) ranking, defined as "the positive impact each team has on its opponents SOS, over the past 5 years, the Top 3 teams in the WCC are #4 BYU, #5 Saint Mary's and #6 Gonzaga. Only #1 Kansas, #2 Duke and #3 Memphis rank higher in SOSI. MWC: #13 UNLV, #18 SDSU, #23 UNM; PAC 12: #39 Washington, #50 California, #53 UCLA.

    #27 Utah State, #77 Weber State, #163 Utah, #196 UVU, #251 SUU.

    BYU is one of only 11 teams nationally to rank in the Top 15 in BOTH RPI and SOSI.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 6, 2012 3:15 p.m.

    Rockwell:

    "Only a clueless BYU hater would even pose such a silly question. Idaho, San Jose State and New Mexico State won't be on BYU's 2013 schedule, and whichever teams do fill the last 5 or 6 slots on BYU's schedule won't be anywhere close to as pathetic as the cupcakes Utah will schedule to fill it's remaining two slots."

    Seems like you are quite the "clueless" hater yourself. I see that you were "clueless" as to who the Indy-WACers would fill out their schedules from 2013-15. Typical hypocritical coug. How would you know if their TBD games would be tougher than Utah's? The only game the Utes have scheduled beyond '13 was Michigan. You think you'll do better? Based on what? Frantic emotion?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 6, 2012 2:52 p.m.

    Striker:

    "ND gets to schedule whoever, whenever, wherever they want and aren't confined to a conference. BYU gets to do the exact same thing."

    Okay...so in other words, what you're saying is, the Indy-WACers WANTED to schedule Idaho St, Idaho, SJSU, NMSU, Weber State, et al.

    Yeah...I can see that.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 6, 2012 2:49 p.m.

    BigCougar:

    "And to all those who say its about money, if it really was about that don't you think the pro-Ute in-state media would've ben able to write about what those financial benefits are? The absence of any supporting numbers screams that its a smokescreen."

    That's because you were being expected to do the math yourself. Very well then...

    It has been reported that Utah makes ~ $1.5 million per home game in gate receipts. With a 6-game Home slate, that amounts to the area of $9 million/season. But, if the Utes get an extra Home game -- which could be the case when the Utes schedule a one-off with an FCS team, or a 2-for-1 with their frantic and emotional little brothers from WACistan -- they would stand to earn annual gate receipts between $10-11 million.

    ~ $9 million < $10-11 million

    There's your supporting numbers.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    July 6, 2012 2:44 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    "Does 2012 ALSO mark the end of the Indy-WACers' 12-game schedule?"

    Only a clueless BYU hater would even pose such a silly question.

    Watch and learn.

    Idaho, San Jose State and New Mexico State won't be on BYU's 2013 schedule, and whichever teams do fill the last 5 or 6 slots on BYU's schedule won't be anywhere close to as pathetic as the cupcakes Utah will schedule to fill it's remaining two slots.

    Of course, that doesn't even consider the PAC 12 cupcakes that Utah fans will try to pass off as "difficult" opponents, even though they're not even ranked in the Top 100 - see Colorado.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 6, 2012 2:43 p.m.

    BigCougar:

    "Current Ute success is a direct result of former BYU great players who ute ADs had to bring in to elevate the program."

    Silly desperate frantic and emotional coug. Ron McBride was brought in to elevate the Utah program back in 1990. And HE's a San Jose St. alumnus.

    And then after McBride successfully elevated our program, Urban Meyer was brought in to take it to the NEXT level, and elevate our program to heights unseen. Meyer was a Cincinnati alumnus.

    After Meyer resigned to accept the top job at Florida, Whittingham remained to backfill his position. At this time, back in 2004, Kyle had been in SLC for 12-yrs...which is TWICE as long as he'd spent down there in WACistan. Seems to me he's more Ute than cougar. Must be why when given the choice, he chose to remain. While Whittingham has been very successful, he hadn't taken the Utes to the NEXT level like McBride and Meyer had done. But that's no fault of his own. There hasn't been much low-hanging fruit to pick from. For Whit to elevate the program, he'll need an NC.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 6, 2012 2:32 p.m.

    Y's little brother:

    "No matter how successful they may become, little brothers are constantly comparing themselves to their big brothers."

    What kind of "big brother" has a .356 all-time record vs. their little brother? What a pathetically weak elder sibling.

    By the way, which one of us is 25-yrs older than the other?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 6, 2012 2:25 p.m.

    skywalker:

    "Call us the first time the Utes are legitimately 'in contention' for a national championship. So far, U've never come close."

    And what number would that be wherein we could reach you? 1-800-Indy-WAC? Utah has 2 undefeated seasons, and 2 BCS bowl trophies. In 2008, we finished as the only undefeated team in the country, and beat FOUR teams who finished ranked in the Final polls; TWO of whom finished in the Top-10. Was #2 not close enough?

    Tell you what...why don't YOU call US the first time the Indy-WACers are "legitimately in contention" for an NC. And don't come back with "1984"; that wasn't legitimate. Backing into a title with a 104th-rated SOS out of 108 D-1 teams does NOT "legitimize" your shampionship. You guys only take credit for it because you know you won't ever be the ACTUAL best team in the nation. Well, THAT and the fact that college football corrected itself to ensure no imposters ever back their way in again.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    July 6, 2012 2:22 p.m.

    skywalker

    Yeah.. there are still 4 or 5 dates still open for San Jose State, New Mezico State, Idaho State and maybe even a long standing relationship with Idaho.

    byU can be the Idaho State Champs of 2013!

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 6, 2012 2:14 p.m.

    Y's little brother:

    "I know this is a hard concept for our little friends on the hill to grasp, but 2012 marks the end of BYU playing Idaho, San Jose State and New Mexico State..."

    Does 2012 ALSO mark the end of the Indy-WACers' 12-game schedule? Because I only see 8 games on your '13 schedule, 7 games on your '14 schedule, and 5 games on your '15. If the losers of '7 of the last 10' still intend to schedule at least 12 games, then how can we be certain that '12 will mark the end of playing Idaho, SJSU, NMSU, and another FCS cupcake? For all we know, they'll be back...

    Indy-WAC = weak SOS

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 6, 2012 2:06 p.m.

    Jake2010:

    "BYU won the NIT when it was the premiere national championship. Utah won the NCAA championship during that same era where the NCAA tournament was viewed during that day as the NIT is viewed now..."

    The FACT is, Utah ALSO won an NIT Tournament in 1947. On the other hand, the Indy-WACers have NEVER won an NCAA tournament.

    Edge: Utah.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    July 6, 2012 1:56 p.m.

    utahcountyute

    "Even though the Utes crashed and burned against CU last year, there was still a chance up until the end of the season for Utah to play in the PAC 12 Champ game."

    Yes!

    With a gift-wrapped PAC 12 South there for the taking - USC on probation, 5 of 9 games at home, no Oregon or Stanford on Utah's schedule, and the other four teams in the division all with losing records - U still couldn't get past one of the worst teams in the country, 10-loss Colorado, AT HOME, for the "opportunity" to get destroyed by Oregon.

    Congratulations! The Utes, as you say, "crashed and burned" on perhaps their only opportunity to win the PAC 12 South this decade.

    -----------------

    "There is no way in "Provo" any BYU "fan" can make an good argument that an independent season is more exciting and meaningful than a PAC 12 regular season..."

    Look no further than BYU 2013 schedule. Even without Utah, it's already shaping up to be more exciting than Utah's 2013 schedule.

    Call us the first time the Utes are legitimately "in contention" for a national championship. So far, U've never come close.

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    July 6, 2012 1:36 p.m.

    Striker "BYU is able to do whatever they want, go whereever they want, see whoever they want, and play whoever they want. They want exposure and are getting it."

    I'm so glad Utah was able to clear the Y's incredible schedule.

  • Y's little brother The Hill, UT
    July 6, 2012 1:35 p.m.

    utahcountyute

    "So.. playing Idaho, San Jose State and New Mexico State in November "works" for you?"

    I know this is a hard concept for our little friends on the hill to grasp, but 2012 marks the end of BYU playing Idaho, San Jose State and New Mexico State in November.

    BYU's Current 2013 Schedule
    Sept 7 - Texas
    Oct 4 - @Utah State
    Oct 12 - Georgia Tech
    Oct 19 - @Houston
    Oct 26 - Boise State
    Nov 16 - @Notre Dame
    Dec 7 - @Hawaii

    October is full, but we've saved a couple of dates for some more quality opponents in September and November.

    If our little brothers ever decide to stop running away, we might be able to fit you into one of those open dates in September or November.

    Otherwise, BYU will simply move on without U.

  • JustTheTruthMan bountiful, ut
    July 6, 2012 1:27 p.m.

    btw...this is a Utah article about two former Utes opinions..... About a game/rivalry that involves both schools..... So, where are you going with that?

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    July 6, 2012 1:21 p.m.

    Here is the reality about basketball. BYU won the NIT when it was the premiere national championship. Utah won the NCAA championship during that same era where the NCAA tournament was viewed during that day as the NIT is viewed now... In fact posers, Utah lost in the NIT that season to even make it to the NCAA tournament.... Google it and you won't be told anything less than what I told you.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    July 6, 2012 1:12 p.m.

    Big Coug

    So an Aggie and a Ute can be credited for all of byU's success in the 70's and 80's? Nice

    "It would not have been where it was without them."

  • Y's little brother The Hill, UT
    July 6, 2012 1:11 p.m.

    gored

    "The reality is, Utah doesn't need to play BYU anymore, but BYU is desperate to keep playing Utah each year to try to sustain any credibility with their football schedule."

    sorry

    The reality is BYU doesn't need Utah, and never has.

    BYU football attainted national credibility without the slightest amount of help from the Utes and long before Utah football was even a blip on the national radar.

    But, you're half right. Utah fans, especially the BYU haters who pretend to be Utah fans, are dependent on BYU to provide their self-identify - it's what little brothers do.

    No matter how successful they may become, little brothers are constantly comparing themselves to their big brothers.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    July 6, 2012 1:03 p.m.

    Striker and others

    "They do what works for them" , "REALITY: BYU schedules WHOEVER they want anywhere (if it's reciprocal), just like Notre Dame does."

    So.. playing Idaho, San Jose State and New Mexico State in November "works" for you? I doubt it.

    Even though the Utes crashed and burned against CU last year, there was still a chance up until the end of the season for Utah to play in the PAC 12 Champ game. byU on the other hand will be playing some decent teams to start out the season this year but same as last year, as soon as they lose to Boise State, Utah, ND and GT, the season is essentially over.

    There is no way in "provo" any byU "fan" can make an good argument that an independent season is more exciting and meaningful than a PAC 12 regular season with a conference champ and NC on the line every year. Sorry.

    btw...this is a Utah article about two former Utes opinions.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    July 6, 2012 12:41 p.m.

    How about we all stick to the issue of the article? The bottom line is whether or not the rivalry game should continue to be played. Times change, and Utah has gone on to bigger and better things in the PAC 12. Every week is a challenge, as opposed to the MWC when, by just showing up, you could be guaranteed 6 wins. BYU, on the other hand, has not moved on to a better situation. In fact, with the scheduling-uncertainty of being an "independent", it makes for some good games (an occasional game against Texas, Notre Dame, and Utah) and for some real losers (Idaho, Idaho State, San Jose State, New Mexico State, Central Florida, etc.).

    The reality is, Utah doesn't need to play BYU anymore, but BYU is desperate to keep playing Utah each year to try to sustain any credibility with their football schedule.

  • gchris rock springs, wy
    July 6, 2012 12:40 p.m.

    More than a money issue, Utah wants to replace BYU with a guaranteed win against some cupcake opponent. While playing in the PAC12 has a certain appeal to Utah fans eager to get out from under the BYU shadow, a 5-12 record every year is not that appealing. Utah has been relatively successful in recent years in the BYU rivalry but in the long run can only expect a .500 outcome. Even playing a watered down PAC12 schedule, the Utes need another easy win to be bowl eligible year in and year out.

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    July 6, 2012 12:26 p.m.

    Naval,
    "Y fans might be able to "see whoever they want", but in order to do so, they'll have to watch OTHER teams play out THEIR seasons instead of you and yours."

    What are you talking about? ND gets to schedule whoever, whenever, wherever they want and aren't confined to a conference. BYU gets to do the exact same thing. Only Army can say they can play anywhere in the country with EVERY SINGLE GAME. BYU is in a great place, and don't pretend BYU is confined and limited. They do what works for them. If you don't like it, you don't have to watch or follow them. REALITY: BYU schedules WHOEVER they want anywhere (if it's reciprocal), just like Notre Dame does.

    NO BYU fan has to watch any other team play their season. No BYU fans cares if anyone else watches BYU's season, but I know you'll be watching cuz you love all things BYU, as we all know. We all appreciate your continued support to make BYU articles some of the most read on Deseret News!

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 6, 2012 12:18 p.m.

    "Utah is scared to play BYU."

    That makes sense. I suspect "fear" is why Weber State doesn't appear on BYU's schedule after 2012. Look out Cougars!! Wildcats gonna getcha!

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    July 6, 2012 12:00 p.m.

    @Rock
    Yes, BYU is still carrying Utah football. Current Ute success is a direct result of former BYU great players who ute ADs had to bring in to elevate the program. It wouldn't be where it is today without them.

    @Juice
    That's just it the utes want to use that spot in the schedule for more FCS teams and gimmes.


    And to all those who say its about money, if it really was about that don't you think the pro-Ute in-state media would've ben able to write about what those financial benefits are? The absence of any supporting numbers screams that its a smokescreen. The real reason has been discussed by Kyle and Chris. They're afraid the utes will struggle getting to 6 winds every

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    July 6, 2012 11:53 a.m.

    I agree....Utah is so scared of playing BYU that they went and scheduled Michigan........who just got done playing a BCS game, something the Cougars would know nothing about.

    Its time for Utah to move on to bigger things than ankle-biting BYU. Poor guys, must be hard getting left out in the cold. Oh well, here is a tissue.

  • MLH SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    July 6, 2012 11:49 a.m.

    RobertC

    You don't pay a peeny for the athletic department, unless you are a member of the Crimson Club. BYU is owned by the LDS Church how can the state legislature make a private school play. I want to see the game also every year but don't think it's anything but the money. There is no way the U can give up a home game every other year.

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    July 6, 2012 11:46 a.m.

    The rivalry will never go away. byU will always want to knock off a power conference team and Utah will always need a mid-major opponent to pad their schedule. It just may not work out in 2013. byU will have another shot at the Utes in 2014... maybe:)

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    July 6, 2012 11:43 a.m.

    Re: CT98 Saint George, UT, "It is only going to get better with Utah in the Pac 12 and BYU (they will be in a conference within the next 24 months)in their conference. Bragging rights are on the line."

    I agree, once BYU gets a conference, the U will find a way to play the game. ...just like Florida/Florida State.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 6, 2012 11:41 a.m.

    CougFaninTX:

    "If Utah swaps out BYU for another Northern Colorado type team, they will never finish in the Top 4."

    Silly desperate frantic and emotional coug. The only school Utah has added to our OOC slate was Michigan. And aren't you guys playing Weber St? Seems a bit hypocritical to complain about the Utes having an uninteresting FCS opponent on our schedule when you not only have one on yours, but had actually scheduled more of the same than Whittingham since Bronco took over. Your Bronco teams have scheduled more WAC/FCS teams than we have, and fewer BCS-level teams to boot, and YOU'RE complaining about OUR SOS? How embarrasssing for you.

    "U should be doing everything U can to strengthen not weaken your non-conference schedule...I can see the partnership with the PAC and Big10 matching up Utah with Northwestern, Indiana or Illinois more often than one of the power schools of the Big10."

    Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what Y fans had been saying prior to scheduling Michigan. All you're really saying is, if we DID get NW, IND, or ILL, we'll still have a stronger SOS than the Indy-WACers.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 6, 2012 11:39 a.m.

    I don't like BYu, never have, and BYu got dusted after Utah was inviited to the PAC.. That is a fact.

  • Jealous U Alpine, UT
    July 6, 2012 11:36 a.m.

    Jenny83

    Veritas is simply laughing at the Utes for beating their chests about beating "irrelevant" BYU and then ignoring the fact that BYU still continues to finish in the Top 25 more often than U.

  • Mr. Moots Salt Lake City, UT
    July 6, 2012 11:33 a.m.

    College Football and the Presidents have sold out for money. They want to act like it is all about the Student Athlete and then they chase the money as fast as every shady opportunistic Realtor out there.

    Keep it about the game. Let the pros chase money. If you do the right thing then the money will be there anyway.

    Or you can take the quick hits and continue to ruin the game.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 6, 2012 11:33 a.m.

    Striker:

    "BYU has a home with ESPN and able to do whatever they want, go whereever they want, see whoever they want, and play whoever they want."

    Nope. The Indy-WACers can't go anywhere they want. Don't forget...you wanted to go to the Pac-12 since the 1970s, but you couldn't go there. You wanted to go to the Big 12 after the Pac-12 rejected you in 2010 [and then AGAIN in 2011], but you couldn't go there. In fact, you wanted to go there in 2012, but they were more interested in looking at WVU, Louisville, and Cincinnati from the Big East, Florida State and Clemson from the ACC, and Notre Dame.

    Y fans might be able to "see whoever they want", but in order to do so, they'll have to watch OTHER teams play out THEIR seasons instead of you and yours.

    And as far as playing whoever you wanted, one can only assume you "wanted" to play a bunch of weak-WAC and FCS teams as the general makeup of your schedules from the '11 season and beyond...

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    July 6, 2012 11:33 a.m.

    "The deal with Michigan is a good start, but I can see the partnership with the PAC and Big10 matching up Utah with Northwestern, Indiana or Illinois more often than one of the power schools of the Big10."

    Still a step up from the old rivalry.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    July 6, 2012 11:27 a.m.

    U-H Alum

    "I care about the 12 PAC, not lowly BYU..."

    yawn

    Don't kid yourself; you are TOTALLY and COMPLETELY OBSESSED with BYU!

    You talk about BYU more than you talk about Utah, and despite your moniker, Hawaii isn't even on your radar.

  • Jenny83 OGDEN, UT
    July 6, 2012 11:26 a.m.

    Veritas.....Really? in the last decade byu has only one 3 times against the utes....and your beating your chest, why?

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 6, 2012 11:15 a.m.

    BYu is starting the worst QB in the history of BYu. He is beyond pathetic, actually Div 3 talent.football. RudY Nelson is so bad........heck......won't talk about him anymore. Does any soul think that Utah is concerned about BYu? I wan't no cheap shots that will injure great Utes.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    July 6, 2012 11:01 a.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum

    The problem is, no matter what excuse Utah comes up with, the Utes will be viewed as cowards for running away from BYU.

    Just as we saw last season, having a chance to beat BYU may be the ONLY thing that Utah fans will have to beat their chests about going forward.

    If the Utes run away from the rivalry, what are U going to brag about starting in 2014 when BYU continues to finish in the Top 25 with big games against teams like Notre Dame, Boise State, and Texas, and Utah continues to finish unranked in the middle of the PAC?

    Sorry to disappoint U, but not even die-hard Utah fans are going to care about Utah's SOS if the Utes continue to finish with 8-5, 7-6, 6-7, and 5-8 records.

    Mediocre is mediocre, no matter what conference logo U have plastered all over the hill.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 6, 2012 10:58 a.m.

    I care about the 12 PAC, not lowly YBu. They can't play at all. Bring on a very gifted USC team at RES.........hey, they can play some ball. Do I think that Utah will win..........NO! However, they could........Who freak'n knows? That game will be unreal. That is a fact. If USC beats Utah........shoot, I can live with that.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    July 6, 2012 10:14 a.m.

    @Gored

    "Whether you can acknowledge it or not, Utah's football program has owned BYU's over the years."

    Utah did "own" BYU during the leather helmet era when BYU football was little more than a club sport, but during most of the last half century, BYU has owned U, winning 29 of the last 47 games (62%).

    In fact, from 1972 to 1992, BYU won NINETEEN of 21 games, many by scores that make Utah's leather helmet era "domination" look mild by comparison - compare 27-0, 56-6, 56-28, 17-12, and 55-7 (that's 211-53!!!) to ANY five year period of "domination" by the Utes. U would have to go all the way back to 1922, BYU's very first football team, to find a similar period for Utah, which had been playing football for over a quarter century by the time BYU began playing football.

    During the Bronco/Kyle era, 5 of the 7 games have been decided by a touchdown or less in the closing seconds or in overtime. Hardly what anybody except a crimson-glasses wearing Utah homer would call being "owned".

  • CT98 Saint George, UT
    July 6, 2012 10:13 a.m.

    The tremendous history of the Rivalry game should be enough evidence that this game should be scheduled each year. It is only going to get better with Utah in the Pac 12 and BYU (they will be in a conference within the next 24 months)in their conference. Bragging rights are on the line.

    The majority of Fans on both sides want this game to continue. Schedule it and enjoy the madness that will ensue.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 6, 2012 10:12 a.m.

    The problem is this.....Utah is in, BYu is not. Convolute the reality of that claim as you "choose" to do so. That BYu spin and personal opinions is irrelevant. Evolution continues to occur. BYu mopped the floor with Utah for many years. Now, times have changed in the 21st century. Let's hope that Wynn can be what he was and Utah could "maybe" beat USC? They are so talented it is a crime. I believe Utah has the speed and depth this year to be good. However, that is why the games are played. I'm hoping for Utah, love them, but ya never know in this world.

  • mtseatss Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 6, 2012 9:47 a.m.

    The local media just can't let this go. They hate this as much as BYU fans. No matter - unlike some on this board that just can't beleive it's over believe it - it's over. Utah has moved into a new neihborhood. The vitriol, projected guilt and and all other hyberbole is not going to change it. It happened with the "battle of the brothers" and now "the holy war". Grow up, embrace it and move on.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    July 6, 2012 9:30 a.m.

    Nebraska - Oklahoma was a huge rivalry. Gone. Texas - Texas A&M. Gone? Utah - BYU. Gone? Penn State - Pitt. Gone.

    The BCS and the conference reorganizations have destroyed a lot of rivalries. The PAC10 policy was to have natural rivalries. USC-UCLA. Cal-Stanford. Arizona-ASU. Oregon-OSU. Washington-WSU. Now they add Utah-Colorado. Only UCLA-USC has the intensity of BYU-Utah. And I'm not sure about that.

    As a PAC10 alum (Washington, OSU), I was surprised when the PAC excluded BYU from the expansion. Made no sense, but it is what it is. The anti-Mormon sentiment is stronger among Democrats than Republicans. Certainly some Bay Area schools could have been a factor.

    So the rivalry will die an unnatural death. RIP. I won't be at the funeral. I don't care.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    July 6, 2012 9:19 a.m.

    @utehawaiialum - "Yes, with Utah's tough weekly demands in the 12 PAC."

    U call Arizona State, Arizona, Oregon State, UCLA, Washington State and Colorado tough weekly demands? LOL U have one tough game this year with USC. U have three comparable games with Cal, Washington and BYU. The rest should be easy.

    If Utah swaps out BYU for another Northern Colorado type team, they will never finish in the Top 4. In the unlikely event that Utah beats USC and wins the South, and the unlikely event that Utah then beats Oregon or Stanford to win the conference; there is still a strong liklihood U could get left out of the playoffs by 2 SEC teams, 1 Big 10 team and 1 Big 12 team.

    In spite of what Ute fans like to think, the schedule is really not tough with the aforementioned teams. U should be doing everything U can to strengthen not weaken your non-conference schedule.

    The deal with Michigan is a good start, but I can see the partnership with the PAC and Big10 matching up Utah with Northwestern, Indiana or Illinois more often than one of the power schools of the Big10.

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    July 6, 2012 9:13 a.m.

    "Hope civility returns to BYU while they look for a home."

    What are you talking about? BYU has a home with ESPN and able to do whatever they want, go whereever they want, see whoever they want, and play whoever they want. They want exposure and are getting it. They have a home. It will take 3 years to do it next year without any connection to any lame conference like the WAC, but they have a home.

    Civility needs to be on both sides. Don't just bring one school into it. How many posters just on this article are opposing fans? Both sides need civility.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    July 6, 2012 9:12 a.m.

    utah-hawaii dude

    "when will ESPN tire of BYU and dump them? That is the million $ question... I believe it will occur sooner than later"

    Who should we believe, a clueless BYU hater, or ESPN?

    "We try to treat our Thursday- and Friday-night football schedule the way we treat our Monday-night football schedule in the NFL, said Ilan Ben-Hanan, ESPN’s vice president, programming and acquisitions. "We try to put premier games there — top matchups."

    "From our perspective, we think that the ability to play on a night when no one else is playing, where the whole rest of the college football world has their eyes on you, is a big thing... And I think the ratings have borne that out over the years. A lot of memorable things have happened on Thursday and Friday nights"... he pointed to BYU’s come-from-behind win over Utah State as "another unbelievable Friday-night game."

    "Going forward, BYU and the Pac-12 will share an important role for ESPN."

    hmmm

    The truth is, the only ones "growing tired" of BYU on ESPN, are the jealous BYU haters.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 6, 2012 8:41 a.m.

    BYU_Aggie:

    "Henry Drummond: No, he actually meant when Utah completely dropped Utah State, who stopped playing the Aggies regularly long before BYU started 2-1 with them."

    What a frantic and emotional thing to say. Utah last played the Aggies back in 2009, and they're back on our schedule for the '12 season. So in the last 30-yrs, the Utes had only missed them TWICE; in '10 and '11! And during that 30-yr span, Utah played 13 games at RES; 14 games in Logan.

    As for the Indy-WACers, in the last 30-yrs, they've played them 24 times...or in other words 3 fewer than the Utes. However, the Home-and-Away split for the "Band of '54-10' Quitters" was 15 games at LES, and 8 games in Logan. With the '12 game ALSO scheduled at LES, this gives the cougars a 30-yr 2-for-1 scheduling model. So if the "perfection" questers have been scheduling 2-for-1s going back to AT LEAST 1983, and the Utes only missing them on our '10 and '11 schedules, how could we have stopped playing them "long before" the Y's 2-1s?

  • Canyontreker TAYLORSVILLE, UT
    July 6, 2012 8:36 a.m.

    Coming from So. Cal., I can say the USC-Notre Dame rivalry has no hate only respect. On the other hand, the USC/UCLA game is horrible. I can't take my family, especially in years that both teams are playing for conference position. The not-eligible USC team has brought civility to L.A.

    Hope civility returns to BYU while they look for a home.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 6, 2012 8:31 a.m.

    @Joe Schmoe

    regarding: I don't buy the money issue. I think Utah would make MORE money playing BYU on ESPN than almost any other game they will schedule.
    ________________

    First of all, that's BYU's deal with ESPN and benefits BYU when BYU plays a home game.

    Secondly, Utah benefits from their own part of the PAC 12 tv deal for every home game that's played in the conference ... and everyone of those will be on national television, even Northern Colorado.

    Lastly, it's the stadium revenue from a home game that matters the most when it comes to scheduling that 7th home game. Most of the SEC teams schedule not just 7 home games - like Utah is trying to do every other year - but 8 home games! Utah is simply playing the money game they have to play to keep close to their conference competition in revenue. I heard it estimated at 1.5 million in revenue to Utah for every home game. When they're on a mission to upgrade facilities across the board, that money really matters.

    One more note ... following the SEC model is nothing but wise when they have controlled the BCS championships.

  • Razzle2 Bluffdale, UT
    July 6, 2012 8:25 a.m.

    BYU is Independent and happy, but the Y fans here are certainly not.

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    July 6, 2012 8:24 a.m.

    If the Utah program does sputter out like so many predict here; than the Utes are still in the PAC-12 or in other words the big 4. This is what is killing these protestors more than anything. BYU...join a conference.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    July 6, 2012 8:23 a.m.

    What exposure do these schools get from playing each other? Maybe in a few years when the WAC ans MWC labels are gone, will the exposure be good.

    Right now, we need to be competitive the likes of USC, Notre Dame, Texas, or Oregon. Then we can all beat each other up.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 6, 2012 8:17 a.m.

    @ Chrissy B,

    There is nothing "mighty" about the Y in any fashion. And yes, I am afraid of what might happen to Utah players by BYu cheap shots. In recent years, when BYu was getting curb stomped by FSU, TCU and Utah.........many fans, even players from those schools complained about a myriad of needless dangerous hits and chop blocks from BYu. Now, in no way have I EVER thought that BYu played "dirty," before a few years ago. I'm not so sure now????????

    Yes, with Utah's tough weekly demands in the 12 PAC and now the Michigan deal..........some cupcakes are necessary, ABSOLUTELY!!!! Utah also has a long term deal with USU, a team on the rise. Utah doesn't need two instate games every year. They need to broaden their recruiting ability in places like Texas and Florida for example.

    In essence, a mid-major squad that plays hard like BYu is no longer in the cards.

    And hey, Colorado beat us with Big 12 talent. I own the loss. But, Montana State was better than BYu last year. That is a fact! Own BYu's current mediocrity. OWN IT!

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    July 6, 2012 8:10 a.m.

    @gored

    "In basketball, Utah has won an NCAA Championship"

    It's interesting that U continue to beat your chest about 1944, when Utah's worst basketball team ever, the 6-25 2012 Utes, won just as many games as Utah's 1944 NCAA tournament winning team.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    July 6, 2012 8:09 a.m.

    @rational jealous U

    The only thing hilarious, as you put it, are your own "facts" in presenting your argument. Whether you can acknowledge it or not, Utah's football program has owned BYU's over the years. The overall total of 55-34-4 speaks for itself. If you are truly a fan of the game, you know as well as I that the 1984 "championship" was given to BYU out of default. They were the only undefeated team in the country, and beat a mediocre Michigan team in a minor bowl by a touchdown. That Michigan team ended up being 6-6! Utah's 2004 and 2008 teams accomplished far more, and would have been awarded the national championship under the same guidelines that BYU was awarded theirs 30 years ago.

    And since when was Google ever considered the definitive word on any argument? I challenge you to find a reputable source that backs up your claim that BYU has finished in the Elite Eight or Sweet 16 more than once. Again, Google is not accurate, and can be changed and manipulated by anyone at any time.

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    July 6, 2012 8:05 a.m.

    Most of the posters here make good comments but a few fans on both sides need to lighten up. First, Utah is not dropping BYU because they are afraid to play them. Fact - U has won 7 of the last 10 and scheduled Michigan which is a much stronger program. Second, the rivalry isn't going to fade away. Might not play every year right now but doesn't mean the games are gone for good. Third - this is a football article and really a reach for posting about BB results.

    If there is another 54-10 type of game this year, I think the Y fans will be glad to have a break. Focus on Boise State and ND for a while instead ...

  • Christy B Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 6, 2012 8:00 a.m.

    U-H

    "Utah cannot afford the possible injuries..."

    In other words, the poor whittle whimpy Utes are runnin' scared of playing the mighty Cougars.

    Utah's "goal" is to schedule a couple of cupcakes every year, so when they finish with their usually losing record in the PAC 12, they can still qualify for a bowl.

    The Utes, with all of their "exceptional" talent, still aren't capable of beating pathetically bad PAC 12 opponents like 10-loss Colorado.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 6, 2012 7:56 a.m.

    This year BYu has the worst November schedule in college football history, without question. Even if the Idaho game is on a ESPN channel, who is going to watch it? BYu's ESPN ratings were terrible last year. How is that going to change........it won't! No prestigious conference will give the Y the time of day, let alone an invite. So, when will ESPN tire of BYu and dump them? That is the million $ question????????????? I believe it will occur sooner than later, then BYu football will have a major dilemma for sure.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 6, 2012 7:38 a.m.

    Talk about beating a dead horse........ Utah cannot afford the possible injuries by BYu cheap shots. Utah's talent level is well above the Y currently and Utah is in the 12 PAC. Utah's goals are different now and they don't include BYu any longer. It is what it is........over!

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    July 6, 2012 7:28 a.m.

    I am all about keeping this rivalry going. Could you imagine stopping Michigan/Ohio State, Florida/Florida State, Virginia/Virginia Tech? Unthinkable! Why stop this rivalry? It's so FUN to have a rival. It brings an added demension to sports. In Nebraska, their rival has been Colorado, but they are 7 hours away from each other. When it stopped when they moved conferences, no one in Nebraska really seemed to care. They weren't true rivals. I see teams like Nebraska, Boise, and Tulsa who don't have a true rival and those fans miss out on an added dimension to being a fan. Having a rival makes one game (sometimes 2-3)a year for each sport more emotional and more enjoyable. It can bring you down or bring you high. This rivalry has been around before any of us were even alive. Why stop it because you move conferences? Personally, I'll have a bitter taste in my mouth towards Utah if they decide they are higher than the rivalry and form that SEC mentality that out of conference games can't be too tough. GIVE ME A BREAK! Keep the rivalry and keep the emotions high!

  • Magna Ute Fan Magna, UT
    July 6, 2012 7:19 a.m.

    It's not about money. Both schools make out well selling shirts, flags, stickers etc... during that week. It's a very cheap road trip. It's not about scheduling down, as we see Utah scheduling Michigan. It is about exposure, see Michigan again. But mostly, I believe, it is Utah sticking it to BYU.

    Utah understands, even if most cougar fans don't want to admit it, that BYU needs the rivalry game more than Utah does right now. It's in Utah's best interest for in state recruiting to let BYU struggle to fill LES every week with good opponents. Cougar fans claim they can schedule anyone they want, especially in September. But look how many of those are 2 for 1s. When BYU is playing some WAC team and Utah is playing a PAC12 team most of the eyes in the state are on Utah.

  • HCB63 Orem, UT
    July 6, 2012 1:54 a.m.

    It's a stupid GAME...not life or death.

    Too much emphasis is placed on the rivalry that has, over time, turned to hatred.

    Campuses have to be practically locked down; opposing fans are cursed at, spit on,
    called disgusting names; players are harassed and their families intimidated; the media inflame the rivalry through biased journalism; students and alumni on both sides celebrate a win as if they are prideful victors that have slaughtered a terrible enemy, and glumly take a loss as an intensely personal affront that diminishes their very being...

    All of that for what? A stupid GAME.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 6, 2012 1:36 a.m.

    Another article about the rivalry? Can we please move on to something else?

    As a season ticket holder I personally can't wait until #1 USC visits @RES!

    Go UTES!

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    July 6, 2012 12:13 a.m.

    @Veritas Aequitas

    You are wrong about Utah being running to hide.

    Although there are people on both sides who are tired of the rivalry (myself included), the game is wanted by the red and blue for the most part.

    Utah has a dilemma. With 9 conference games, Utah has 3 games left to play with. There will always be one patsie, then Utah will have a BIG 10 opponent, and one more recruiting game. That one game might be BYU sometimes.

    The Cougars won't except a 2 for 1. Why would they? I wouldn't. However, to keep the game going without a hiccup year, BYU will need to play at Rice Eccles in 2012 and 2013. After that, maybe we go back to alternating years.

    The reason for the next two years needing to be in SLC is because the game is scheduled in SLC next year, and in 2013 Utah has 5 conference road games. Thus Utah needs two of their three non conference games to be at home.

    Schedules and their ramifications are more complicated than many realize.

    BYU has a strong September schedule. They need help in November, but Utah can't oblige there.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    July 5, 2012 11:59 p.m.

    Let it die out. BYU doesn't have much to gain with these games.

  • Jealous U Alpine, UT
    July 5, 2012 11:57 p.m.

    GoRed

    It's hillarious how Utah fans constantly pretend that college football history began the same year college basketball history ended 2004/2005.

    Comparing records during the current Bronco/Kyle and Dave Rose eras:

    FOOTBALL
    Top 25 Finishes
    Bronco 5
    Kyle 3

    Top 15 Finishes
    Bronco 3
    Kyle 1

    10+ Win Seasons
    Bronco 5
    Kyle 3

    Conference Championships
    Bronco 2
    Kyle 1

    Head-to-head
    Bronco 3
    Kyle 4

    Overall
    Bronco 66-24
    Kyle 65-25

    ================

    BASKETBALL
    20+ Win Seasons
    Rose 7
    Utah 1

    NCAA Tournaments
    Rose 6
    Utah 1

    Conference Championships
    Rose 4
    Utah 1

    Head-to-head
    Rose 11
    Utah 3

    Overall
    Rose 185-54(71%)
    Utah 101-119(46%)

    In light of these very telling facts, Utah's basketball program is indeed a "joke", and Utah's football program still trails BYU, even during a relatively quiet period for BYU football.

  • Rational Salt Lake City, UT
    July 5, 2012 11:49 p.m.

    GoRed,

    So while you are going back to Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble days on the hill for the football record, how about acknowledging the '70s, 80's and 90's when BYU dominated, and more to the point, while you admiring that 1944 NCAA basketball championship (btw, 1947 NIT with many of the same starters. Ute fans can't acknowledge that because then they would have to acknowledge BYU's 1951 and 1966 championships, but I digress), then why not go to Provo and admire BYU's NCAA Football CHAMPIONSHIP Trophy?

    Oh, and at least get your facts straight. I don't even have to google to know BYU has been to the sweet 16 twice. Oh wait, I did Google it. Final 8 three times, final 16 seven times.

    Your facts aren't telling, they are selective.

    Look, 7 of 10 gets the job done. Utah has current edge, but still two top 25 football programs. Good for them. Not bad for a state with 1% of the US Population.

    Also, Utah and BYU both have fine basketball traditions, and BYU has the recent edge there.

  • Osgrath Provo, UT
    July 5, 2012 11:23 p.m.

    Whatever anybody thinks as to whether the rivalry should continue, we all recognize that the games ALWAYS mattered, were always meaningful and were always intense. In other words, they were always fun. Other than bowl games, how often did fans of either school congregate at somebody's home with a big screen and all the food to watch any other game. Sure, there are fans who have a group party for every game, but for BYU/Utah the get-togethers were ritual and nearly universal.

    I think people should inundate Chris Hill with email and snail mail to let him know how the regular people think. Don't focus on the nastiness. You don't have to read the comments to articles in the Tribune, and I really doubt any Cougar fans get beer dumped on them at RES, and I know for a fact that I was able to take my Ute-fan buddy to LES with him decked out in full Utah regalia and nobody said anything negative to him.

    We need this game at the end of the year. Even a 2 - 9 season is validated for the winner.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    July 5, 2012 11:05 p.m.

    @veritas aequitas

    You write "Utah athletics continues to be an in-state joke". Really? Utah's football team destroyed BYU's by 44 points last year at BYU's stadium. Utah has beaten BYU's 3 out of the last 4 years, 7 out of the last 10 years, and holds an overall 55-34-4 advantage.

    In basketball, Utah has won an NCAA Championship, has been to the Chanpionship game twice, has 4 Final Four appearances, and has been to the Sweet 16 ten times. Let's compare Utah's record to BYU's. The Y has no NCAA Championships, no appearances in the Championship game, no Final Four appearances, and has been to the Sweet 16 exactly once.

    In light of these very telling facts, if Utah's teams are a "joke" as you say, what does this say about your BYU teams?

  • Whoa Nellie American Fork, UT
    July 5, 2012 10:46 p.m.

    I doubt either one really cares.

  • Whoa Nellie American Fork, UT
    July 5, 2012 10:32 p.m.

    Who really cares?? I can see a clear path wherein Utah's football program is diminished to nothing. At the end of the day... and in the big scheme of things ... football doesn't mean much. Utah will find that, in the end, it cannot please everybody nor can it be the competitive team its fans want it to be. You can't have mediocre recruits and end up with a good football program.

  • U 90 Corona, CA
    July 5, 2012 10:29 p.m.

    Veritas,

    That "in-state joke program" you referred to currently owns the Cougars :)

    You must be having a bad day because your posts are usually thought out a little better. Utah's football program has been gaining momentum for the past 10 years, and up until a few years ago the Utes have been mainstays in the NCAA b-ball tournament. I hope the hoops tradition returns to the U soon. But lets not kid ourselves, Utah definitely has the upper hand on BYU in football right now.

  • Pragmatic Salt Lake City, UT
    July 5, 2012 9:26 p.m.

    Who really cares?? I can see a clear path wherein BYU's football program is diminished to nothing. At the end of the day... and in the big scheme of things ... football doesn't mean much. BYU will find that, in the end, it cannot please everybody nor can it be the 'Lord's university' and have a good football program; both.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 5, 2012 9:19 p.m.

    @ Veritas Aequitas
    Fruit Heights, UT

    LOL.

    Need a tissue?

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    July 5, 2012 9:09 p.m.

    I am more than okay to let this thing die a natural death.

    I detested going to those games. Too much hate on both sides.

    Go Cougars!

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    July 5, 2012 9:07 p.m.

    Vertias me a break. BYU never carried Utah. BYU is in it for themselves; always have been. In the 80s all the Y talk was how the Y was going to be leaving for the PAC 10; I grew up in Utah so I remember such baseless ramblings. If you still disagree go ahead and list all the way Y fan delusion thinks BYU " carried Utah." Oh brother the desperation of Y fans has hit and all time high or would that be low. How about BYU quits trying to hold Utah back and does it on their on. If they are so great and mighty (though they can't seem to beat the Utes) Utah dropping them should be no big deal though we know Idaho State, Idaho and New Mexico State paints a far different picture. BYU fans talk a good talk; time to follow through and quit worrying about what the Utes as it all is bit too desperate at this point, though I admit, amusing.

  • PAC12Fan South Jordan, UT
    July 5, 2012 8:56 p.m.

    Everyone needs to relax! The game will continue somehow, some way. The fans on both sides that say they don't need, want the game are simply in need of help themselves. It may go a year without but the supporters won't stand for it not being played. If BYU wants another dose, the Utes should oblige. Until BYU gets into a great conference, the recruiting gap will widen. BYU will occasionally win a game but Utah will win the majority of the games in football.

  • Juice Box Eureka, UT
    July 5, 2012 8:18 p.m.

    It may be "murder" as you put it, but Utah cannot trade any non-conference games for just anybody anymore. Most of the schedule is already decided by default. The rivalry will end, even if some don't want it to.

  • Veritas Aequitas Fruit Heights, UT
    July 5, 2012 8:12 p.m.

    Truth is, Utah wants any excuse not to play BYU.tah cannot stand on their own two feet in the state.

    As long as BYU has carried Utah on their back, Utah is now ready to "pretend" they don't need the game.

    Utah is, has been, and will be only as good as the Utah - BYU game.

    Utah's seaon has always been defined by the holy war. Take that out, and who in the state cares about Utah football?

    ---

    That being said, I hope Utah runs the other way, as BYU "competes" against any major program willing to schedule the better institution, while Utah cowers and prepares for Colorado.

    Utah athletics continues to be an in-state joke.

    If they run and hide, the joke gets bigger and better for BYU fans...

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    July 5, 2012 7:03 p.m.

    motorbike

    A couple of losing seasons with no bowls and half-empty stadiums for the one-and-done cupcakes Utah will have to schedule to get those 7th games, and the Utes will be begging BYU to revive the seriers to help the Utes refill RES; all you have to do is look up the hill to the HC to see how quickly Utah fans desert their teams as soon as they hits the skids - it's only a question of "when".

  • BYU_Aggie LOGAN, UT
    July 5, 2012 6:58 p.m.

    @Henry Drummond: No, he actually meant when Utah completely dropped Utah State, who stopped playing the Aggies regularly long before BYU started 2-1 with them.

    Ever heard of "Battle of the Brothers?" Google it. Utah is quite experienced at ending rivalry games.

  • IA Cougar West Des Moines, IA
    July 5, 2012 6:55 p.m.

    Bottom line is this: Money. When Utah left to the Pac12 (and who wouldn't have rejected that offer?) the rivalry was done right there. The fans ruin it past that point by thinking they are mightier and better than the other. I see this particularly from Utah fans who now that they are in the Pac12, they are better than BYU. Comparing the 2:1 arrangement BYU and Utah State have isn't even close to an apples comparison. If Utah State brought 45-60,000 fans to their stadium, it would be different, but they don't. And back to my first point. Why would it be different? Money. Unfortunately, rivalries and killed over money and this is another one that will be lost in the shuffle for the all important and greedy dollar. It has ruined pro sports and now it is ruining college sports. It's a shame!

  • Wallbanger Spanish Fork, UT
    July 5, 2012 6:43 p.m.

    This will work itself out eventually. Let's just get some football going!

  • Aggielove Cache county, USA
    July 5, 2012 6:23 p.m.

    Not sure we care what Meyer thinks....

  • Joe Schmoe Orem, UT
    July 5, 2012 5:59 p.m.

    I don't buy the money issue. I think Utah would make MORE money playing BYU on ESPN than almost any other game they will schedule. Someone tell me how my thinking is wrong.

    I think in reality Utah sees playing BYU as a tougher game than they want to schedule out of league play. They know that they will struggle to get as many wins in the pac 12 that they used to get in the MWC so the out of conf. games take on MUCH more significance when they look at needing 6 wins for a bowl bid. Why take a chance on BYU when they can schedule a sure thing?

  • THE MTN MAN Taylorsville, UT
    July 5, 2012 5:33 p.m.

    It's sad to see Utah bullied by their conference overlords. You will NOT play your rival on rivalry week. In fact, you should NOT play them at all. Oh, and by the way, you WILL open your campus to athletic events on Sundays, even though half of your fans would rather not be there on that day.

  • Yerffoegn Maricopa, Az
    July 5, 2012 5:14 p.m.

    Praxis-That is what rivalries are. "Been there done that". That makes them rivalries. You you don't throw it away for that reason. Hateful? yep. Mean? sometimes. Spiteful? Heck yes. FUN? always. Chris Hill is an egotistical clown. Whitt, big red nose and floppy feet as well.

  • MESOUTE SLC, UT
    July 5, 2012 4:53 p.m.

    RobertC,
    The Utah State Legislature is highly conservative, overly conservative in fact. Mandates do not fall into ideological lunacy.

  • praxis Salt Lake City, UT
    July 5, 2012 4:44 p.m.

    Utah - BYU game and rivalry.

    Been there, done that, got the t-shirt - it's time to move on.

  • JohnsonR SLC, Utah
    July 5, 2012 4:32 p.m.

    This is something both U and Y fans can agree on. Let’s put it on the ballot this coming election and let the people who pay for the schools decide.

  • RobertC SLC, Utah
    July 5, 2012 4:22 p.m.

    I'm only kind of kidding when I think that maybe ... just maybe... the state legislator or governor could jump in here and mandate that Uof U plays BYU every year.

    It is my taxes that pay for the school... Seriously…, Why Not? Money is the ONLY reason holding it back. I freakin pay for that school up on the hill and I want a UofU-BYU game every year.

  • SundanceKid27 OREM, UT
    July 5, 2012 4:16 p.m.

    "BYU not playing Utah..."

    Sorry Meyer, it is Utah who doesn't want to play BYU.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 5, 2012 3:58 p.m.

    As much as everyone wants to make this about Utah scheduling down or running away from BYU because the rest of the schedule is so difficult, it's really all about money - period.

    It's hard to argue with going after that extra home game when every other year when Utah's at the bottom of the money pool in the Pac 12. With as much emphasis is now placed on facilities and "wowing" the recruit, every penny Utah can get it's hands on is important.

    That said ... this is one Ute fan that says don't let the rivalry suffer because of money. This game not only needs to be played every year, I agree with Alex Smith, it belongs at the END of the year. Chris Hill needs to start pushing back with the Pac 12 on this and figure out a way to play BYU in the last or second to last game of the season. I'm sure Colorado and CSU would welcome this same thing.

    Go Utes.

  • Hatch Sandy, UT
    July 5, 2012 3:57 p.m.

    Unfortunitely its not about Utah and BYU fans. Its about the money. It would take a gutsy move by Utah to schedule BYU going forward. But it is not likely to happen. If roles were reversed I also am not sure if it would happen. But long term it would be best for both schools. For BYU strength of schedule and for Utah fund raising.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    July 5, 2012 3:53 p.m.

    "Others swear it would be murder in the first degree, thanks to an unwillingness to help an old opponent."

    Do you mean BYU dropping the Utah State rivalry and then only agreeing to play them a two for one basis?