In the D&C the Lord himself says that He established our Constitution. It
would be unfortunate to have to explain to the Lord why we gave away the thing
He gave to us. I hope we all did our homework and have upheld the Constitution
ourselves in our vote for whom to represent us. It would also be unfortunate to
have to explain to Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and the other prophets how their
prophecy, that the LDS people would save the Constitution once it hung by a
thread, did not come true by any effort of mine. It would also be
unfortunate when the eyes of the entire world are upon Mitt Romney, Utah and the
LDS church as they are now, for the world to see that WE are not practicing what
our scriptures and prophets teach regarding the sacred Constitution. It’s also unfortunate to do ones homework and see that currently the
Constitution is disregarded and trampled by the large majority in both parties.
Some people think the Constitution is dead as of now. I don't know but
it's hard to argue that it's alive and well.
There is talk about holding Hatch's feet to the fuirre and have him vote
the way Utah wants him to vote. Has not happened in the past and Hatch
qualifies as being an old dog if nothing else and you know how well they learn
new tricks.If I were to make $200K annually and then show up at the
bank with not 10 times that amount but with 50 times that amount there would be
eyebrows raised and questions asked. Hatch has over $10 million in his war
chest.Who gave him that money?Why did they give it to
him?According to Hatch's office intersested voters gave him
those donations yet it turns out over 85% came from corporations.Those corporations do not give money away. They purchase the right to
entitlements.Sorry senator Hatch yo are no longer one of usYou are one of them.
Hooray for Utah. I'm glad we didn't succumb to the ridiculous rhetoric
offered by those who claimed that Hatch was too old. Agism with a thin veneer of
conservative idealism is still reprehensible and wrong. Hatch is a dedicated
civil servant who will continue to do a great job for the state of Utah and our
country. He's been through a lot, and will bring needed wisdom and
experience to the bloviating extremes in the Senate.
@ LDS Liberal"Look it up.Fascism is extreme RIGHT-wing."Here is what I found when I looked it up: "Fascism - definition. A
totalitarian philosophy of government that glorifies the state and nation and
assigns to the state control over every aspect of national life."The Nazism or Facism that you described sounds like an awful lot of
government, which places it on the political spectrum near the 100% government
end. For all of those people, German citizens and their victims, it ended up
being way too much government. Which is exactly where we are at and headed
farther towards even more. It won't work for us either.Perhaps
we could understand better if you would define Right Wing and Left Wing for
us?Maybe you could draw the political spectrum for us as you understand
it?@ LDS Liberal"Oh my,a video from the John Birch
Society.It's even worse than I thought....However,
that just about expalins everything...."And just how does that
just about explain everything? So you found the video - Did you
watch it? Are you here to exchange ideas and have a valid
discussion? Or just to assign undefined labels?
The people have spoken!! Thank goodness we can be done with Dan L. fanatics
I wonder if many Utah voters are more positive minded than people think and took
offense at some of the tactics used against Hatch. I think the Retire Hatch
signs were offensive. Certainly, they speak of wanting change in this position
but they also speak not so well of older people suggesting that when one gets
maybe 70ish, they don't have the goods to lead. I figure this was
offensive to many, not just people of Hatch's age but perhaps to those
approaching Hatch's age. The other factor is, believe or not,
many state employees ARE actually Republicans and of generally conservative ilk.
However, Liljenquist's legislation attacked their pensions perhaps sending
a negative message to many. Again, not all public employees are "union
stooges who vote Democrat" like many tea partiers think. They are most often
dedicated public servants who want to have jobs and want to serve the public and
people. Bottom line, this was a classic overreach by the tea party
and classic negative and mean spirited campaign that backfired.
I'm reading with interest in seeing that 30% to 70% margin. But it looks
like some of the 30% are demanding that the 70% be silent. Isn't that how
dictatorships and oligarchies form? When the minority holds the majority silent
and powerless? Where only one view is allowed to be expressed and all others
Dan Liljenquist,Thank you for running! You were the best vote
I've cast in my whole voting experience for any office. It is entirely too
rare an experience that an honest man can be proud of his vote. Thank you for
giving me the thrill of voting with pride.All the best to you!
Now if the GOP doesn't win control of the Senate...his big "I'll
be chairman of the finance committee where I can do some real good" promise
will be a moot point and Utahns will have fallen for it again.
IdahoStrangerNEWDALE, IDFor an easy to understand
clarification of this issue, google: "An Overview of America video" and
watch the 29 minute presentation.============== Oh my,
a video from the John Birch Society.It's even worse than
I thought....However, that just about expalins everything....
IdahoStrangerNEWDALE, ID@Arm of OrionPerhaps you were
incorrectly taught that Nazism is at the right side of the spectrum which is
incorrect as Nazism leans heavily towards total government. =============== Glenn Beck University has taught you wrong.Look it up.Fascism is extreme RIGHT-wing.National
Socialist was a misnomer used to win Union Support - unions favored Communism
and that is how the Nazis duped them into supporting them.How many
times a week do we need to review REAL history for the mis-informed and ignorant
of the facts?Want more examples?Who promotes Live and Let Live
[Liberals]and who seeks to ban this, that and the other?
[ulttra-Conservatives]Remember, Hitler cleaned-up the drugs,
alcohol, prostitution, & pornography, Expanded the Military, Focused on Job creation and economic development, Did away with the
nanny state, Built up Nationalism and German Patriotism, Invaded
Romania and the Gulf States for their oil, And sent Homosexuals,
Non-Christians, Immigrants, Communists and those who could not be productive to
Concentration camps and gas chambers.Now - is the Right-wing or
Too bad the tea party didn't put up a better candidate against this career
politician. Term limits are long over due.
@Arm of Orion"Wait a minute Anti-Bush Obama you mean to tell me that
Hatch is a socialist and a Nazi? Wow what a strange combination of
traits!"Why is that such a strange combination? On
the political spectrum where 100% government is at one end and 0% at the other
end, Socialists and Nazis are found next to each other on the end closest to
total government.Perhaps you were incorrectly taught that Nazism is
at the right side of the spectrum which is incorrect as Nazism leans heavily
towards total government. Any World War 2 survivor from Europe can verify that
there was plenty of government under Hitler.For an easy to
understand clarification of this issue, google: "An Overview of America
video" and watch the 29 minute presentation. Not only will you gain new
knowledge about the political spectrum but also will learn why our Founding
Fathers gave us a Republic and not a Democracy and why the difference is so
important. Today, we have neither. What we have now is an Oligarchy. Also defined in the video. Yes, "enough with rhetoric."
Let us clearly define our terms so that we are not confused.
lots of nattering negativism on this thread
If Liljenquist would have won the primary, I would have voted for him in
November. I hope that Dan supporters will rally behind Hatch, like Gingrich did
for Romney. Ron Paul is hurting the Republican chance of getting Mitt Romeny
into office. In the case of Ron Paul, with the primaries over, we've got
to put pride aside, and vote for the greater good. I voted for Orrin Hatch,
because I felt like he was the best choice. Both Hatch and Liljenquist would be
able to help in D.C. and represent our economy and Utah jobs far better than
Howell, but now it is Hatch's turn to represent the Republican party.Congratulations to both Senator Hatch and Dan for a well-fought
campaign. Politics is tough. I am grateful for the opportunity to listen,
research, vote, work, and support, but I'm not quite ready to run for
Interesting side note;Since Orrin Hatch cold not secure the GOP
nomination at the Republican Caucus held last March with less than the required
60% vote….And yet, goes on to win by over 68% in the actual
Primary election Only goes to show that the Utah Caucus System does NOT
work.Even amongst Republicans.
Wait a minute Anti-Bush Obama you mean to tell me that Hatch is a socialist and
a Nazi? Wow what a strange combination of traits! Perhaps next he will be KKK
member? Enough with the rhetoric. Divisive language is part of the
downfall of the Republic.
I realize this is after the fact, but I think it's pretty hypocritical of
Hatch to call FreedomWorks "sleazy." If you get on their web site,
they are very up-front about who they are, their purpose, which candidates they
support, etc. They carefully documented each of Hatch's votes that they
took issue with. They are an ongoing, long-term, principled organization.By contrast, Hatch's super PAC (Freedom Path) is very vague,
shadowy, and secretive about who they are and their purpose. They operate out
of Nevada (finally discovered by reporters), but claim a Utah address so they
can avoid the terrible "out of state" label. Their purpose is to
operate a smear campaign. Even after some of their ads have been shown to be
outright lies, they have continued to promote them.When the election
is over, I fully expect that Freedom Path will quietly slither away and
disappear into the night.No, Senator, I think "sleazy"
applies to your super PAC much more than it applies to FreedomWorks.
I didn't like dan either. But I voted for him just to get the fuhrer our of
I am grateful for the honor and privilege to know Dan Liljenquist and the
wonderful people from his campaign. They always stood for correct and true
principles and were consistent examples of what is good in the world.
Dan’s positive character shines through as he leads with integrity and
dignity. I will ALWAYS Stand with Dan!
I was one of those who fought to get Bob Bennett ousted in 2010.I'm
also one of those who supported Orrin Hatch yesterday. I voted based on the
records of the two candidates. I agree with Senator Hatch on more than 95% of
his votes. I definitely did NOT agree with 95% of Liljenquist's votes.The Grama debacle had a much bigger impact on my vote than anything else.
Republicans are a bunch of socialists. Hatch promotes socialism.
Sheez! all of these republicans/socialists did what Romney said and voted for
this senator turned dictator for yet another term. He will die in office. Politicans will never make our lives better We are the ones that will
make our lives better. When you let hatch decieve you into think you are
powerless withgout him, the country is in big trouble. Do you like
having your gun rights taken away? Do you like being spied on? Hatch is in favor
of both. It's ironic that the most "conservative" state
in the union allows themselves to vote for the same anti-constiutional
republican for 36 years.
Re: isrred Logan, UT"How can Orrin Hatch claim to truly represent a
state when the MAJORITY of the people living in the state weren't even born
yet when Hatch took office?"Obviously Hatch represents the
values and ideals of a majority of Utahns as evidenced by the fact that we vote
for him. Scott Howell is a decent family man. It is unfortunate for him that
Obama is currently sitting in the White House. It will cost him the election.
Idaho Stranger - you should be honest when you post. Freedom Index had Hatch at
70% which put him among the 3 most constitutional minded senators. Even the
very conservative Idaho senators were graded lower than Hatch. When supposed
Tea Party PACs like Freedom Works go after senators with very conservative
records you know their agenda is not what they claim. Yes hatch has made some
votes that I don't agree with, but his overall record is excellent.
"When will "Zion" vote for the Constitution? Reliably Utah elects
the wrong man."Well, Gildas' you could be right on that. It
seems we are going to vote for Romney in Utah. And we put in Lee, and Chavetz.
And Lilinguist was put in a state seat by Utahns. And yeah, even Senator Hatch.
So yeah, I can see where you could say we reliably elect the wrong person.
Well done Senator Hatch.
@isrred: I don't care which church you belong to. I'll try to make my
point in "non-mormon:" A person's age, per se, has nothing to do
with their ability to understand issues and represent a constituency. Age can,
in fact, enhance one's ability to see a bigger picture, based on
experience. Of course, if the old person does not remain curious, open-minded,
and amenable to change, then age can become a handicap.I hoped Dan
would win too, but not because Orrin is old. I prefer to support people who will
hopefully go to Washington to serve and to spend their 2-term efforts acting on
a clear set of principles, then coming home and resuming their career...rather
than someone who spends inordinate amounts of time, effort, and money to get
Shows how "name recognition" keeps electing incumbents over and over
again. Hatch will be "84" when he retires now. It's very
irresponsible for Utahans to select an old man who is actually not as
conservative as the State deserves over a sharp, brilliant, young, true
Conservative. I'm very disappointed in Hatch and sad that Liljenquist will
have to wait for 6 more years to secure the seat he needs to be in now to help
save our republic from self-destruction. Orrin has been a part of putting our
country so far in debt that we will never be able to recover... not ever! Utah
made a huge mistake yesterday, by not properly informing themselves before
voting. We badly needed Dan!
@oldcougarI don't belong to your church, so I don't care who you
have running it...
Hatch is not a bad person, and he has not been a bad Senator. But, we could
have had a much better Senator in Dan Liljenquist.I applaud
Dan's willingness to run, and those who love our country and worked hard to
get him elected. However, winning against a six term incumbent with universal
name recognition, virtually unlimited funding (directly or indirectly) and
endorsements from most of the big name cronies people also recognize is nearly
impossible in a short campaign season.The big question is" Will
Orrin Hatch act as the real conservative he claims to be back in Washington, or
was this all calculated political posturing to fool the voters again?Time will tell.
@isrred: So, by your logic, we should retire Pres. Monson and replace him with a
fine yound Elder's Quorum president who can relate better to the young
Is Senator Hatch talking conservative? If so, it must be an election year. 3
more months of posing, then he can go back to what he does best - "good
ol' boy" RINO in DC.Look up "career politician" in
your Webster's - there's probably a picture of Orrin Hatch.
Utah's median age is 29. How can Orrin Hatch claim to truly represent a
state when the MAJORITY of the people living in the state weren't even born
yet when Hatch took office?Hatch has been in Washington FAR too
long. That's why I'll be voting for Scott Howell in November.
Money equals senator for life in Utah.
Oh, the moaning and groaning and knashing of teeth from those who voted for Dan
instead of Orrin. Get it out of your system today, please, and let's move
on to bigger things, like the presidential election this fall. Cry today, then
wipe your tears and go collect all your campaign signs and throw them away, even
the ones you set up while taking down those of your opponent. (That was a
classy move.....NOT!) It's over finally........
I love it. 70 percent of Republicans vote for the man... a landslide in any
election, and yet he is the RINO. Perhaps those who fling terms around like
RINO need to look in the mirror and possibly accept that they are the ones who
are not in the mainstream of what the party is all about.THe notion
that someone must agree with every last mot of policy with some else, otherwise
they aren't real Republicans is what has damaged the Republican brand
deeply. It is ok to have dissenting views within the party. It is what creates
balance. No one is right all the time about all issues, no one. From either
party. Any of the time.Get over the party purity thing. That has
been tried before in other countries, and usually leads to disastrous results.
I am glad the 2010 group that ousted Senator Bennett without hesitation in the
caucuses and convention did not win their game on this round. I am glad that
Senator Hatch can now continue his campaign for our Utah U.S. Senator so we have
someone in Washington, D.C. that will be able to work with people for the common
good of our country. We need people with principles that will work with others
to influence our cause. He has shown over 36-years that he can work with all
people and groups and still represent our great State of Utah for the good of
our country and state. Thank goodness that the November election
will have someone that will be there that has experience, expertise and the
knowledge and proven-capability to work for us and hopefully win in November.
I'm with UtahBlueDevil. I certainly lean to the conservative side, but we
have to remember that we as a nation deal with a wide variety of views; knowing
how to work with those who don't share your views will likely get some of
your objectives accomplished rather than none of them at all. I'm not a
particular fan of Orrin Hatch, neither am I of Mitt Romney. But Mitt as well
showed he could get some things done in a state that was wildly liberal. That
kind of pragmatism will likely serve him well as President.
How will Utah hold Sen. Hatch's feet to the fire when he votes against the
principles of the Constitution again?Surely the 73,668 voters who
voted against him will phone, write and email him and ask him the same questions
that Ezra Taft Benson and Cleon Skousen used to ask him: "Why did you vote
that way?"And what about the 146,394 who voted for Sen. Hatch?
When they observe him voting against limited government and spending money
foolishly, will they too phone, write and email him? Or will they now just
assume that Sen. Hatch will do the right thing? In reviewing the
Freedom Index where Sen. Hatch scored only 30% I find that he voted for spending
hundred of billion of dollars on such things as funding nuclear reactors in
China (via US Import-Export Bank), Foreign Aid, social welfare and pork barrel
highway projects, etc. Spending for unconstitutional functions of the federal
government. How will we ever curtail run away spending if we do not support the
limited government principle?Will we help Sen. Hatch to "support
and defend the Constitution" by raising our voices loud and long? Time will tell.
When will "Zion" vote for the Constitution? Reliably Utah elects the
RE VSTWe're quiet because of our shock with the rest of you.
Hatch has served Utah well, but his time should be over. He's in it for
him now...not Utah. It's sad only 30% of the State can see that. I'm
guessing most who voted for him did so because they A) truly believe he is best
for the job or B) did not realize it's 2012 and they've been voting
for this guy the duration of their lifetime.
Every politician that held office during 9/11 and just drank the kool-aid they
were given should be voted out of office. Clearly they did not exhibit the
courage required for the position that the people elected them.I
went to vote last night. Voter registration records listed me as democrat so I
was not allowed to vote. I have always considered myself a republican so
don't know how I got the label of democrat. I wonder how many other voters
encountered a similar error, and prevented from voting?
So the Sen. Hatch raised over $10 M? Gee, I wonder what the payback will be for
this?You don't actually believe there won't be do you?We
don't have too long to find out, I am sure.I am sorry so many are
unaware of what actual conservatism is.Insanity: Doing the same thing over
and over and expecting different results.
Congratulations to Senator Hatch! If I still lived in Utah, you would not
have received my vote. This morning I did a quick check of 11 different issues
of the Freedom Index which rates congress on their votes in regards to the
Constitution. Sen. Hatch ranges from 30% to 100%. To me, this
means that Sen. Hatch is playing politics rather than voting according to
principle.May I be so bold as to suggest to Sen. Hatch that he
review the Constitution once again? May I suggest that he use the course
designed by his dearly departed friend, W. Cleon Skousen, entitled "The Making of America"?Actually, this would be a good
suggestion for all Americans. Just what are the basic principles on which the
Constitution rests? Our nation has seriously departed from the
Constitution and the death of our Republic is looming just over the horizon. We
must stop thinking in terms of Republicans vs Democrats, liberals vs
conservatives, etc. and must begin to measure all issues in terms of the
Constitution and its founding principles. Limited government as
outlined in the Constitution has gone by the wayside. We must apply them again.
Sen. Hatch, please find them again.
Yes, I am sure Hatch will try to live up to the standards of those who tried to
oust him.... and not to the standards of those who supported him, and
understood they were sending someone back that had a history of actually doing
stuff rather than just saying "No" to everything.It is good
to see there is a little balance in Utah politics and the Tea Partiers
aren't able to run everyone out of town. Hopefully the Tea Party will
realize that you just can't be against everything and wrap yourself in a
flag, you actually have to be able to get something done.
It's now time to start working on what a lot of people in this forum want
to do -- retire Hatch.
I see why Orrin wants to be in DC, who wouldn't. As much as I wanted Dan
I'll whole heartedly support Orrin!
This isn't just a win for Orrin, it's a win for the entire state of
The bad news--all this proves is that Utahn's can indeed be bought--by
insurance companies, healthcare companies, lawyers, hospitals, and lobbyists
(Hatch's true "bosses", i.e. his campaign contributors). Sad,
isn't it? But, there is some good news here--some very good
news. I congratulate the 69,000 people who took the time to learn the truth
about voting records and issues. These great, great people voted for the true
best candidate in this race--Dan Liljenquist. My hats off to every single one of
them!And…the fight goes one in Texas, Indiana, and other
states that succeeded in ousting their RINOs. These great men and women will
take their seats in a Senate where every vote counts and these votes can
overrule and silence Hatch. Thank goodness!Finally--congratulations
Dan! You fought a good, valiant fight. We look forward to seeing you succeed in
Utah, you are now responsible for whatever fiscal destruction this man may put
upon us all.TARP? Bailouts? Debt increases? Votes for unbalanced
budgets? Yep, you got it all.I'm pleased that Liljenquist got
30% of the vote; shows that 30% of the people are focusing on principle. And
what is that principle? Fiscal restraint in federal matters.Utah
still has a long way to go to be more politically awake than it is…
Congrats to Dan Lil for trying to hold OH's feet to the fire.
Let's see. How much did the good Senator spend while campaigning in a
primary election for a position that pays less than $200,000.00 a year? Wow, he
must really care.One American: You're funny.
As for me and my house, we all voted Hatch! Congrats!
Best news of the day.
Now there's a surprise. When the Governor came out in support of Hatch on
June 6th he'd seen the results of private polls predicting the winner.
With his warchest practically untouched during the primary race Hatch will be
unstopable in the general election. Perhaps if Obama were to come
to Utah and campaign for Howell ....
Utah-- You chose to give Hatch what should obviously be his last term because of
his age (though that's not a given). I hope you hold his feet to the fire,
because if he doesn't plan to run again, he no longer is obligated to stay
true to the "conservative" values he swung back to after having
abandoned them up until he saw Bennett get ousted. He ran on
conservatism...PLEASE...make sure he GOVERNS with conservatism.