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'Coming to our Census' series explores demographic issues

Published: Saturday, June 23 2012 1:00 p.m. MDT

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wrz
Salt Lake City, UT

@Cougar Claws:

"When we get legislation who will finally address these issues, your 'millions of Hispanics' who are here illegally will need to go back to where they came from until they can get earn their way here the correct way."

And, just how will you get millions of Hispanic to go back to where they came from? They won't go on there own accord, and ICE is refusing to round them up and ship them out.

Face it. Illegal Hispanics are here to stay. Our legislators and federal law enforcement don't have the guts to do anything about it. And since they are (according to DNews) mostly of the same ethnicity (Hispanic), they form communities within communities where they don't have to learn English or adopt the American culture and way of life. No need to. We are witnessing the beginnings of a very serous schism of the population in America.

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

wrz,

Most frequenters on here know that my beliefs on immigration are fairly forgiving. I believe in sustaining and enforcing the law. But I also believe that we the people have a right to assign appropriate punishments for certain crimes. I favor legal retribution in some form of either paying or working off their crime (just as other crimes allow for) according to their ability to do so; but I also believe that anyone who refuses that, wanting to remain illegal, should be forced to leave this country.

My stance satisfies the law, satisfies future and current enforcement of the law, satisfies repairing the economy, and satisfies every possible claim for justice other than 'eye for an eye' which I do not subscribe to.

On the other hand, your argument doesn't satisfy anything. 'just how will we send them back' isn't the problem. We are more than able, just not willing. One party's unwillingness to enforce currently established law isn't a rational argument for abdicating that law. 'Just face it'??? You're arguing for anarchy and injustice. No system of justice could exist based on the rational that we 'just accept ignoring laws'.

wrz
Salt Lake City, UT

Soon Utah residents won't need to spend time in the sun. Lilly-white will be a non sequitur.

wrz
Salt Lake City, UT

@A voice of Reason

"I believe in sustaining and enforcing the law."

Punishment for breaking immigration laws is deportation. Therefore, you believe in deportation.

There is no provision in the law to do anything else... such as what you and the president propose. In fact, the pres himself is breaking the law, perhaps a law more serious than illegal entry. What law? Aiding, abetting, harboring or encouraging illegal aliens (8 USC 1324).

"But I also believe that we the people have a right to assign appropriate punishments for certain crimes."

Not so. We the people don't make laws. That task belongs solely to the US Congress.

"On the other hand, your argument doesn't satisfy anything."

It satisfies millions of law abiding US citizens.

"..'just how will we send them back' isn't the problem."

We don't need to lift a finger to send them back. Just enforce E-Verify (a federal law), stop issuing driver licensing, stop educating their kids, stop giving them free healthcare, etc., etc., etc., and they will deport themselves. In the meantime, hopeful immigrants who are doing the right thing, waiting in line will get their turn, and will be setting an example.

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

wrz,

I in fact do not believe in deporting all those who have broken the law. To suggest I don't excludes a possibility and one I happen to believe in as I explained in my previous comment.

We the people choose our laws through propositions, elected officials, elected judges, and the democratic process. People can call for specific actions from those elected persons. This is how our country operates.

The very fact that plea bargains exist make my point for me- which is that we are NOT bound and without choice as a people. Plea bargains are the very "provision" in the law that you argued did not exist. Any enforcement of the law on U.S. soil requires due process, regardless of citizenship. Our law and any humane law does not justify executing a murder without a trial SIMPLY because they are not a citizen. Currently our courts judicially decide immigration cases and therefore plea bargains are legally authorized and sanctioned by the law.

I'm not even arguing that my position is right, just that it is compatible with law. Where as your argument to "just face it" and accept illegal activity is anything but lawful.

Hank Pym
SLC, UT

I foresee one problem w/ Utah becoming more cosmopolitan & diverse. The established but shrinking majority will IMO feel threatened & play up the persecution complex like never before.

@ Mr. Bean 4:46 p.m. June 24, 2012

Learn Mandarin! That will be the native tongue of our overlords.

jskains
Orem, UT

One flaw with all this is what is a Hispanic? It's a horrible term that means really nothing. Martin and Charlie Sheen are Hispanic. Cameron Diaz is Hispanic. There are a lot of people who are as white as anyone else that are Hispanic and many have become so part of the American culture, that you couldn't pick them up in a lineup. Some say that the Whites will always be a majority because one day "Hispanic Whites" which make up 53% of the Hispanic population will just be absorbed into the "White" category. It's confusing and the real problem is no one has the entire picture in their head the way it should be.

Kitenoa
Salt Lake City, UT

Whether we like it or not, changes to the demographic make up of this country is coming fast, with a huge surge in minority pouplation. That is a fact according to the article. I just hope people of all backgrounds would carry their fair shares of keeping the United States a land we can all be proud of today, tomorrow, and for the coming generations. Looking back, I do appreciate those people in history who built this great Republic; but at the same time mourn the destruction of the native people who were the first American "citizens". Today, life goes on, we must do the best we can with what we now have, and move forward with faith in ourselves and others.

milicent
Mansfield, Qld

Utah was built over time on the back of the strengths and courage of immigrants of a century and a half or more. Current native Utahans are not being driven out or deprived of their lands, rights and livelihood as were Native Americans of the 1800's.

It seems very much out of character with Utah's immigrant culture for current-day immigrants to be so reviled and disliked. Former-day immigrants were poor sod-busters - no wealthy amongst them. The new immigrants are stronger and of a better economic and educational base than the former ones were. The positive results of their contributions will come to fruition in the economy earlier than was the case in earlier generations.

If we are to believe that the future of the State of Utah is to be better than its past, then, by definition, it must change. Increased immigration with a mix of rich and poor, skilled and unskilled is modern-day Utah's inheritance.

Less criticism, more encouragement and a clearer vision is required if the current generation of native Utahans are to measure up to their opportunity.

Let's not embarrass ourselves by forgetting the value of our heritage.

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