'Coming to our Census' series explores demographic issues
Utah was built over time on the back of the strengths and courage of immigrants
of a century and a half or more. Current native Utahans are not being driven out
or deprived of their lands, rights and livelihood as were Native Americans of
the 1800's.It seems very much out of character with Utah's
immigrant culture for current-day immigrants to be so reviled and disliked.
Former-day immigrants were poor sod-busters - no wealthy amongst them. The new
immigrants are stronger and of a better economic and educational base than the
former ones were. The positive results of their contributions will come to
fruition in the economy earlier than was the case in earlier generations.If we are to believe that the future of the State of Utah is to be
better than its past, then, by definition, it must change. Increased
immigration with a mix of rich and poor, skilled and unskilled is modern-day
Utah's inheritance. Less criticism, more encouragement and a
clearer vision is required if the current generation of native Utahans are to
measure up to their opportunity. Let's not embarrass ourselves
by forgetting the value of our heritage.
Whether we like it or not, changes to the demographic make up of this country is
coming fast, with a huge surge in minority pouplation. That is a fact according
to the article. I just hope people of all backgrounds would carry their fair
shares of keeping the United States a land we can all be proud of today,
tomorrow, and for the coming generations. Looking back, I do appreciate those
people in history who built this great Republic; but at the same time mourn the
destruction of the native people who were the first American "citizens".
Today, life goes on, we must do the best we can with what we now have, and move
forward with faith in ourselves and others.
One flaw with all this is what is a Hispanic? It's a horrible term that
means really nothing. Martin and Charlie Sheen are Hispanic. Cameron Diaz is
Hispanic. There are a lot of people who are as white as anyone else that are
Hispanic and many have become so part of the American culture, that you
couldn't pick them up in a lineup. Some say that the Whites will always be
a majority because one day "Hispanic Whites" which make up 53% of the
Hispanic population will just be absorbed into the "White" category.
It's confusing and the real problem is no one has the entire picture in
their head the way it should be.
I foresee one problem w/ Utah becoming more cosmopolitan & diverse. The
established but shrinking majority will IMO feel threatened & play up the
persecution complex like never before.@ Mr. Bean 4:46 p.m. June 24,
2012Learn Mandarin! That will be the native tongue of our overlords.
wrz,I in fact do not believe in deporting all those who have broken
the law. To suggest I don't excludes a possibility and one I happen to
believe in as I explained in my previous comment.We the people
choose our laws through propositions, elected officials, elected judges, and the
democratic process. People can call for specific actions from those elected
persons. This is how our country operates.The very fact that plea
bargains exist make my point for me- which is that we are NOT bound and without
choice as a people. Plea bargains are the very "provision" in the law
that you argued did not exist. Any enforcement of the law on U.S. soil requires
due process, regardless of citizenship. Our law and any humane law does not
justify executing a murder without a trial SIMPLY because they are not a
citizen. Currently our courts judicially decide immigration cases and therefore
plea bargains are legally authorized and sanctioned by the law.I'm not even arguing that my position is right, just that it is
compatible with law. Where as your argument to "just face it" and accept
illegal activity is anything but lawful.
@A voice of Reason"I believe in sustaining and enforcing the
law."Punishment for breaking immigration laws is deportation.
Therefore, you believe in deportation.There is no provision in the
law to do anything else... such as what you and the president propose. In fact,
the pres himself is breaking the law, perhaps a law more serious than illegal
entry. What law? Aiding, abetting, harboring or encouraging illegal aliens (8
USC 1324). "But I also believe that we the people have a right
to assign appropriate punishments for certain crimes."Not so. We
the people don't make laws. That task belongs solely to the US
Congress."On the other hand, your argument doesn't satisfy
anything."It satisfies millions of law abiding US citizens."..'just how will we send them back' isn't the
problem."We don't need to lift a finger to send them back.
Just enforce E-Verify (a federal law), stop issuing driver licensing, stop
educating their kids, stop giving them free healthcare, etc., etc., etc., and
they will deport themselves. In the meantime, hopeful immigrants who are doing
the right thing, waiting in line will get their turn, and will be setting an
Soon Utah residents won't need to spend time in the sun. Lilly-white will
be a non sequitur.
wrz,Most frequenters on here know that my beliefs on immigration are
fairly forgiving. I believe in sustaining and enforcing the law. But I also
believe that we the people have a right to assign appropriate punishments for
certain crimes. I favor legal retribution in some form of either paying or
working off their crime (just as other crimes allow for) according to their
ability to do so; but I also believe that anyone who refuses that, wanting to
remain illegal, should be forced to leave this country.My stance
satisfies the law, satisfies future and current enforcement of the law,
satisfies repairing the economy, and satisfies every possible claim for justice
other than 'eye for an eye' which I do not subscribe to.On
the other hand, your argument doesn't satisfy anything. 'just how will
we send them back' isn't the problem. We are more than able, just not
willing. One party's unwillingness to enforce currently established law
isn't a rational argument for abdicating that law. 'Just face
it'??? You're arguing for anarchy and injustice. No system of justice
could exist based on the rational that we 'just accept ignoring laws'.
@Cougar Claws:"When we get legislation who will finally address
these issues, your 'millions of Hispanics' who are here illegally will
need to go back to where they came from until they can get earn their way here
the correct way."And, just how will you get millions of Hispanic
to go back to where they came from? They won't go on there own accord, and
ICE is refusing to round them up and ship them out.Face it. Illegal
Hispanics are here to stay. Our legislators and federal law enforcement
don't have the guts to do anything about it. And since they are (according
to DNews) mostly of the same ethnicity (Hispanic), they form communities within
communities where they don't have to learn English or adopt the American
culture and way of life. No need to. We are witnessing the beginnings of a
very serous schism of the population in America.
Re: Mr. BeanIf they want to fulfill their reasons for coming here
(partaking of opportunities), that means becoming educated and learning English,
which requires being here legally. I applaud the families who have followed the
rules and got to where they are they right way. When we get legislation who will
finally address these issues, your "millions of Hispanics" who are here
illegally will need to go back to where they came from until they can get earn
their way here the correct way.
Assimilation can only happen when all groups speak the same language. Right now
the trend in the U.S. seems to be a two language country being acceptable.
@Say No to BO:"Sadly, assimilation isn't even their
goal."You got that right.Why should Hispanics
assimilate when they are pouring into this country and Utah by the millions?
Which means they have their own communities where language, customs, etc.,
changes are not necessary. Get ready to eventually need learning and speaking
Spanish... in America!
Lest we forget, Utah recognizes the domain of the Ute Indians. It was second
choice to "Deseret" (name of this newspaper?) Most Mexicanos are of
Spanish/Native American mix. So what, if they are coming home? We sent them
there in there in the first place. Re: Trail of Tears.
Amen to most of what was previously said. America is a great country for a
reason. America was BUILT UP as something great through hard work, honesty,
integrity, and through the blood, sweat, and tears of our forbears. Our
generation is fighting to keep it that way. If you want to come to this country
to contribute to, and give to what we have built, then great, you are more than
welcome. If you want to continue to build American culture then great. But if
you want to come here to leech off the system and make it another third world
country, please go back home. In the words of the previous poster, BE AMERICAN.
We will only be a free nation as long as we continue to live by the values this
country was built on.
What? Do you not have compassion for those students who have just graduated and
can't find jobs?Do you not have compassion for those barely
squeaking by, while our gov.steals money from our wallets to support those who
came here illegally milking the system.Go to a premier showing at a
movie theater and there's a block long line. How far would you get walking
up to the ticket window so you can buy the first ticket.Not far,
then why would we cater to those who have illegally crossed our border when
there are thousands who have been waiting 15 years (the right way)to come here
to be with THEIR families. We know them, their health, their backgrounds, their
purpose.If you are not boarding Illegals, giving them food, paying
for their education, teaching them a job skill, paying for their medical THEN
DON'T TELL US YOU ARE TAKING MONEY FROM OUR WALLETS to do so. You are a
Socialist, a Communist, or a progressionist (same thing). You are not a
Constitutional loving American.Come here, assimilate here, love
america but do it the right way. Don't try change our rules. Be American.
As a Latino man i came legally to this beautiful state 24 years ago.Since then I
have make many friends white and othes nationalities. But things has change I
see the far right and the far left of many people trying to capitalized from the
situation of the illegal immigrants, why do they just try to tell congress to
come up with a practical solution to benefit the families and in hope that after
that new laws will finally put a solution to this sad time that we are facing
and then a new era of understanding and progress for our state and country will
come. It comes to my mind Rodney King words "CAN WE JUST GET ALONG".
My concerns with 'the changing face of Utah'...1) If you
move here, learn English. I'd learn French if I moved to France. Pretty
simple.2) I'm fine with a white minority someday. I'm not
fine with Utah's cultural identity changing. I would NEVER move to mexico
and try to establish a BBQ-fest to make Americans feel more at home and expect
the state to pay for it cause I'm a minority.3) While I
wouldn't establish BBQ-fest on another people's dime, others not only
do that here but arrogantly devalue or disrespect American culture. I've
known people who come here and practically hate anything that is American
culture, food, language, etc.I appreciate other cultures completely.
I just won't pay for it via government. Utah should do things the Utah way
just as other countries do their thing. I expect immigrants to try to appreciate
and show respect to my culture and their new home, not try to change it. If they
do that becoming a minority shouldn't be a threatening concept to
anyone.Culture shock shouldn't happen at home.
Of course ethnicity and culture are two completely different things. This
article seems to attempt to conflate the two. Ethnic diversity is fine.
Cultural diversity is NOT necessarily fine. Utah and the country have become
flooded by a culture which disrespects this country and many of the principles
upon which it was founded, including the rule of law. This is NOT good for
America. In fact, it is very BAD for America. The Deseret News article largely
sidesteps this issue, of course. I respect the Velasquez's for coming to
this country legally.
As an immigrant, I love everything this country stands for that's why I
raise my children to be American first and nothing else. I
don't understand why people move to the US or foreign country and whine
about the new language and environment. It drives me nuts to see the US
government change the rules that only benefit some minority groups. I support
English as the official language and those that don't want to learn should
pack their belongings and go back to where they came from, it's that
simple. If you don't want to assimilate, do us a favor don't come to
The vast majority of the world's population has brown skin and black
hair.What does it matter that non-lily white people move to Utah? If skin
color bothers you, you've got some huge problems.
I believe it is silly to keep identifying people by the appearance of their
skin. It only serves to perpetuate perceived differencess and foster division
among people who, in reality, are all children of God. Can't we get beyond
Utah's schools are being starved at the most critical time as the state
grows more diverse. This will lead to huge challenges ahead and I predict much
of it won't be pretty.
Utah Welcome's all Legal Immigrants who come here, work, Pledge allegiance
to our Flag, make Utah a better place to live. Illegal Immigrants who come here
to commit crime, fraud our welfare system, have children to gain entrance,
entitlements and take not give to Utah, (NO!)
We have white elderly friends who are leaving America, to retire in Mexico.
They have lost so much of their investments they cannot afford to live in the
communities where they have raised their families. Soon, the ethnic groups will
have created a third world environment in America with no one of wealth left to
give them handouts.
These far out, radical predictions rarely come true. Maybe Utah will become a
land of minorities, and maybe it won't. Just as computer models predict
(absurdly, I might add) that the earth will be so hot we cannot live on it 2100,
that the rising seas will flood half the land mass on earth, etc, etc. Fact is,
the earth is not warming, seas are not rising, and the promised land called the
United States is becoming so economically unattractive, that immigrants, legal
or illegal, and not all that excited about coming here anymore. The U.S.
unemployment rate is higher than many countries in the western hemisphere, and
the authoritarian trend under Obama and the Democratic socialists in this
country, is now discouraging many from coming here. In fact many Americans are
now beginning to leave for better places to live. I wouldn't put a lot of
stock in the conclusions of this story.
Assimilation needn't be a long process - it wasn't for my grandparents
who both emigrated to Utah in the late 19th century. They learned a new
language, worked their way through school at the U, found a career in NYC, and
raised their family in a community teeming with other immigrants. Their
neighbors were of different races, ethnicities, religions, and political
persuasions, but they shared a common goal: assimilation. They didn't
abandon their heritage, but they embraced their new country. My grandfather
received a silk, pocket-sized American flag the day he took the oath of
citizenship, which he carried in his wallet the rest of his life. My
grandparents and others like them assimilated quickly because they wanted to.
Today's immigrants who want to can and do assimilate - even in places like
Orange County, which used to be a lily-white Republican bastion but now enjoys
remarkable racial, ethnic, religious, and political diversity.
@raybiesSadly, assimilation isn't even their goal. We are well on
our way to becoming Quebec (but probably not Bosnia).Jacob Vigdor at Duke
did a census analysis of assimilation trends. It is a fascinating look at our
future.But alas, the Deseret News and reporter Cortez are busy putting
lipstick on a pig.
Assimilation is a long process, sure, but one advantage Utah has is its
strong-values, in particular its religious background. The LDS faith has the
potential to enliven underprivileged people of all origins. It values education,
hard work, and family. These values create a strong and viable society that can
weather any demographic.