@ Ranch 7:13 a.m. June 15, 2012**How about books like
"Twilight" that expose your children to stalkers, disobedience and risky
behavior?**Twilight s/b banned simply for the fact that it makes
Anne Rice novels look like Pulitzer Prize material.
People are getting bent outta shape by a book espousing (note the word play) one
persons opinion.I wondered where all the moral outrage focused on
the DaVinci Code and Hunger Games would get channeled into?
Mike, I modified your first paragraph to accurately reflect my feelings.'Yes, what a shame that PARENTS can't protect their own
children from the Mormon agenda to indoctrinate our children into their way of
life.' This is truly how we feel. You can't keep your
children bubble wrapped their whole lives. They may someday be exposed to
something with which you disagree. I would rather that be when they are young
and I have a greater impact.
@Mike Richards;For your information, LIFESTYLE includes every single
aspect of a persons life. The one small difference between gays and straights
is who they're attracted to and who they have relations with. So, one very
small aspect of one's life is what you're railing on and on about as
our "lifestyle".Well, let me tell you something. My
"lifestyle" is EXACTLY LIKE YOURS in every single way but this one small
piece, and that's all you focus on. All you see is "gay *" when
you see a gay couple. In my estimation, that sir, is the real per version in
our society.Would you like to ban books like Hucleberry Finn becuase
it exposes your child to race*?How about books like
"Twilight" that expose your children to stalkers, disobedience and risky
behavior?Frankly, I wouldn't want my kids exposed to the
bigotry of that piece of paper you call "inspired": The proclamation to
Re: George Bronx, NY "In my world we protect our innocent child from
people that believe they are justified in abusing their personal religious dogma
to oppress others ..."Removing a book on alternate life styles
from an elementary school library can hardly be considered abusing our
"personal religious dogma to oppress others". We have a responsibility
to protect our children from indoctrination that promiscuous behavior is OK
because it will inevitability lead to unhappiness down the road.
And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is
better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast
into the sea. Mark 9:42
I have to wonder if any of the people so dead against this book have actually
taken the time to read it. It features two women raising a family. No where in
the book does it promote homosexuality - not once does it mention sex
(homosexual or otherwise). What is does promote is the acceptance of children
living in families that are different from the mainstream. The outcry against
this book makes me wonder what it is we want our kids to learn. Because what I
see we are teaching them is intolerance and hatred. Heaven forbid they play
with the child from the single parent home. That boy in foster care...better
not speak to him. The little girl living with her grandparents...definitly off
limits. Tolerance and inclusion are learned. Unfortunately what I see the
parents of Davis County teaching is anything but tolerance and inclusion of
@lanethank you Lane if you go back and read the threads you will see that
was exactly the point I was trying to make for two days until I got tired of the
Hold on George and L. White. Read this: "Like I said yesterday.
Imagine you have a book full of naked women (not porn, but educational such as
female anatomy, breast cancer, pacific island cultures, artist's paintings
of nudes, and so forth). Would you want that book available to Jr. High or
Highschool kids or would you want it available with parent's
permission?"We are not talking about elementary school children
in your argument. We are talking about teenagers.I, a parent, want
correct and educational material for my children to study. I would trust my
children with reading and understanding this material - just like I had to in
7th grade health. Everyone in the sixties took 7th grade health and learned
(with books and pictures) the facts. Why would anyone want to hide what happens
to our bodies? This is important stuff - and backed up with parential
instruction, your child is much smarter and ever so much wiser and, if you have
taught them correctly, safer.
@VIDAR 1:57 p.m. June 14, 2012I'm not Eric, but I'll
respond anyway.First, the books you list (with the possible
exception of "The Anarchist Cookbook") are well beyond the reading level
of all but the very most advanced elementary school students, so I would not
expect to find any of them in an elementary school library on that basis
alone.Now on to the books:"If I Did It: Confessions
of a Killer" - No (exclude from elementary school library)."The Communist Manifesto" - Yes (include in the library), though I
can't imagine any elementary school student comprehending it."American Psycho" - No."Lolita" - Yes, because it
is not explicit, and it decries the evils of the subject matter it addresses
(pedophilia)."The Anarchist Cookbook" - Probably no, because
of the many extremely dangerous (and generally illegal) "recipes" in
it."Mein Kampf" - Yes, though again, I think it would be
incomprehensible to elementary school students.Apparently you would
ban all of them. I would ban some of them. The real issue is, where do we draw
the line on behalf of all elementary students? Who says?
@L white In my world we protect our innocent child from people
that believe they are justified in abusing their personal religious dogma to
oppress others , that is my world, thank you for asking.
Yeah since book banning was so successful in 1930 Germany.....Ohhhh
how the more things change the more they stay the same. When will we learn?
Mr. George,Now, you've got me upset!There is
nothing in this world as precious as a little child! No one, not you, not me,
not anyone, has the right to lead a little one astray. Where in the world is
your understanding of "rights" vs "responsibility"? Did I miss
something somewhere? Did it become permissible in your part of the world to act
without taking full and complete responsibility for the consequences of your
actions? Here in Utah, we believe in freedom to act with the knowledge that
everything that we do will be reported, with full accountability to our Maker.
Furthermore, we believe that leading a child astray is a blemish on us, on our
character, and on our responsibility to our Maker to watch over and protect
those children, whether they are in our own family or whether we have some kind
of stewardship over those children as a teacher or a leader.I will
never understand the mindset of people who will not protect the innocence of a
@VIDAR again with the extreme examples, redshirts examples had no
comparison to "r rated movies" we are talking about public educational
materials that show accurate representations of the human body. Why should you
be allowed to corrupt my child's education because of your religious
beliefs. teach your beliefs in your home. Public education is not about your
religious beliefs. If you do not want your child exposed to accurate science
then send them to a religious school or buy the education materials that expose
your religious dogma and teach them at home. @L White the moral compass that protects individual liberties and right to choose? I am
not sure where you lost those.
Oh for heaven's sake!When did we become a nation of people who
berate mothers and fathers for trying to protect their children from
"literature" that those parents find offensive?When did we
become a nation where bullies can force us to give children access to material
that we (parents) find offensive?When did we lose our moral compass?
Eric SamuelsenProvo, UTOk, lets test that theory, would you be ok
with the below real books being placed in an elementary school library?If
I Did It: Confessions of a KillerThe Communist ManifestoAmerican Psycho by Bret Easton EllisLolita by Vladimir NabokovThe
Anarchist Cookbookmein kampf
GeorgeBronx, NY@redshirt Then buy her whatever book you
want, she is your kid, you have the right to raise your kid anyway want with
whatever values you want to teach her, unless you are abusive enough to convince
a family court judge to take her out of your home.However in elementary
school everyone’s kids are there, lots of different families with lots of
different values and beliefs, is it really that unreasonable to ask the school
library to restrict access without a parent’s permission.This is not
a book I want my kid to read.Just like I do not like my kid to see a movie
before I see it. Is restricting kids from seeing R rated movies without a
parent censorship?I am responsible for my children, so I can object if I
find a book on an elementary school shelf, if enough people agree with me, then
it is put behind the counter or taken out of the school altogether.That is
not to say I want the book burned, like I said, buy it for your daughter then.
@RiflemanForgive me for intruding on the discussion of religious doctrines
of your church, but I'm pretty sure The Proclamation on the Family was not
intended to be wielded as a weapon to bash non-traditional families.
@redshirt yes I want my daughter to have access to those books. I
would prefer she be given accurate information rather then the white washed
world of those that want to distort reality driven by religious fanaticism.
Restricting what a child reads is not the same as restricting what an adult
reads.We censor many things from minor children.Requiring a
parent’s signature is not that unreasonable.Unless everyone wants to
emancipate all school aged children; ultimately the parent/legal guardian is
legally and financially responsible for the minor child.Given this, I
believe a parent has the right to object to material they find inappropriate at
an elementary school.It was not only one parent that was bothered by the
books content.Any parent can buy this book if they want; they also could
check it out from the public library which serves a greater range of patrons.An elementary school library needs to be careful the kind of books they put on
the shelf.There are many different lifestyles, and families, do we really
want a book about each of them on an elementary school shelf?
It's obvious that today, only posts that mock the family and mock those who
stand up for "The Family: A Proclamation to the World" are going to be
allowed.When a newspaper defends the destruction of society by
giving voice ONLY to those who promote an alternate lifestyle, who promote
putting books about their alternate lifestyle in our libraries, who become riled
when parents speak against those books and that lifestyle, then that newspaper
has become an advocate for that alternate lifestyle.When that
newspaper is the Deseret News, the people of Utah have every right to complain
to the owners and managers of that newspaper. The owners of the Deseret News
are fair minded, but they will never promote an alternate lifestyle. Listen to
the "talks" that the owners have given in General Conference. Find ONE
TALK that promotes the alternate lifestyle that the Deseret News is promoting.
Find just ONE TALK that promotes putting books about that alternate lifestyle in
our schools where our little ones will have their innocence destroyed.
Re: LDS Liberal Farmington, UT"I’ll be sure to mention your
comment to 6 of my cousins, my Home Teacher and his family, a neighbor around
the corner, as well as a former Bishop and his adopted children ..."While you are at it you might want to ask them for your Church's
official position on traditional families. And yes, lucky is the child adopted
into a loving traditional two-parent family.
The funny thing is the book has not been banned or even removed from the
school's library. They have take a book and made it so that a child must
have permission from their parent before they can get it.Like I said
yesterday. Imagine you have a book full of naked women (not porn, but
educational such as female anatomy, breast cancer, pacific island cultures,
artist's paintings of nudes, and so forth). Would you want that book
available to Jr. High or Highschool kids or would you want it available with
parent's permission?To "LDS Liberal" the church you
claim membership in believes in a "Black & White, All-or-Nothing view of
everything in the world." That is called the law of opposition, you believe
in moral relativism.
Kids go to school to learn how to read. Yes indeed. And in my experience, the
best way to learn how to read is to have lots of books available. Funny books,
sad books, adventure books, exciting books, thoughtful books. Books about
people like yourself, as well as books about people very different from
yourself. And books describing a variety of lifestyles. Lots and lots of
books. A cross section of books, a variety of books.
@RiflemanSalt Lake City, UtahLucky is the child that lives in a
loving home with his (or her) birth mother and birth father. It's just a
lot less confusing.•10:59 a.m. June 14, 2012===============
I’ll be sure to mention your comment to 6 of my cousins, my Home
Teacher and his family, a neighbor around the corner, as well as a former Bishop
and his adopted children who will most likely find your comment utter
non-sense.Your Black & White, All-or-Nothing view of everything
in the world blinds you to a lot of reality.
How much propaganda does society need? Every society that has had major changes
in social norms started by indoctrinating the children. Hitler had 4,000,000
youth brain washed in 1936. China currently has 73,000,000 youth registered in
its "Communist Youth League of China". It also has the "Young
Pioneers" for those aged 6 to 14. Russia has the "Young
Pioneers".Now, we have 2.5% of the people in America trying to
push their gay/lesbian lifestyle on the rest of us. In a recent poll, many
people thought that 25% or more of Americans were gay or lesbian. The
gay/lesbian "brain washing" is working. They have falsely inflated
their numbers to coincide with America's perception, instead of telling us
that they only consist of 2.5% of Americans.Why do we need ANY books
in ANY library promoting the gay/lesbian lifestyle? Our children
are the most precious part of society. They must be protected from those who
would expose them to a deviant lifestyle. No one has the right to teach
principles that will destroy a child's innocence.
@Rifleman"Parents in Utah send their elementary age children to school
to learn reading, wring, and arithmetic. They don't want them fed
propaganda on alternative lifestyles that they don't agree with."Until they're assigned some sort of activity like drawing a picture
of their family and one of the kids happens to come from that type of home.
Parents in Utah send their elementary age children to school to learn reading,
wring, and arithmetic. They don't want them fed propaganda on alternative
lifestyles that they don't agree with.Lucky is the child that
lives in a loving home with his (or her) birth mother and birth father.
It's just a lot less confusing.
...and book banning is always closely followed by book burning.
Yes, what a shame that PARENTS can't protect their own children from the
gay/lesbian agenda to indoctrinate our children into their way of life.What a shame that children will retain their innocence.What a
shame that children will not be confused by two lesbian women who want them to
"adore" and "accept" their lifestyle.What a shame
that children will be protected from a lifestyle that is counter to everything
that the people of Utah stand for.Oh yes, there is a very loud 2.5%
in Utah who insist that same-sex sex is normal and that children should be
exposed to it as soon as possible so that they'll be ready to participate
when those who practice it need fresh "converts".Their
agenda is insidious. Let them whine and moan that they are not
allowed to indoctrinate our children. Let them complain that they are being
stifled. Let them tell us that we are inconsiderate of their feelings. Our
children are worth the abuse put on us by those who would destroy our children.