Comments about ‘In our opinion: End the abuse of LGBT teens in Utah’

Maybe the reason that the LGBT kids are depressed and feel guilty, is because they know in their heart and soul that what they are doing is not right.
Bullying is wrong and needs to be confronted and stopped in schools.
I do feel that LGBT adults teach the LGBT kids to take on a victim mentality in many ways.
Not saying it does not happen, but it is not only gay kids that are bullied.

@twin lights

you are right there clearly is a difference between bulling and debate. There is even a difference though much smaller I would say between bulling and using the law to restrict basic protections and rights. How would you feel if these places you lived decided that they would not protect your right to practice your religion, offer basic protections against people discriminating against you in the work place and housing and not refuse to recognize your temple marriages?

What does the word "accept" mean? Do I have to "accept" a lifestyle that I know will bring misery and hopelessness to those who live it? Do I have to "accept" a lifestyle that requires that those who believe in it "recruit" teenagers even when that "recruitment" destroys the lives of the "recruited"?

We have moral laws that we can choose to obey or that we can choose to ignore. Those who ignore those laws will feel the pains of disobedience. Who are we to try to take away the pains of disobedience from those who would choose to disobey moral laws?

We reap what we sow. Those who sow mischief will reap mischief. God allows us agency to choose what we will do with our lives but He does not prevent us from receiving the consequences of our choices.

Teenagers should be protected from foolish acts that will ruin their lives. They should be safeguarded from those predators who would use them and abuse them. Teenagers are children and as children they still need to be protected from adults who would lie to them and ruin their lives.

George,

Let's lay aside for a moment the issue of marriage (too hot - you and I will both run out of comment space).

Though I get your point, bullying and legal restrictions are not really analogous. One is how I act. The other is how society as a whole does. We often treat the actions of the societal group differently than the actions of the individual.

Over the last decade or two, the law has increasingly protected the rights of the LGBT community. Not saying it is now perfect, but the trend is clear reference housing and jobs.

But I would doubt that most teens who feel bullied feel that way because of housing or job situations. I assume it is because of how others (friends, family, peers, teachers) treat them, talk to them, etc. That is what needs to change.

BTW, I have a good friend who was kept from an apartment because she is LDS. No, I am not saying that two wrongs make a right or that it is worse or even the same for LDS folks, just noting that religious discrimination is not dead yet either.

@ Mike Richards

There is a difference between accept and bully. Nothing Christ ever taught, nor any of His prophets authorize to treat anyone as second class, regardless of the lifestyle they choose to live.

Accept can simply mean, I disagree with your choices, but I understand they are your choices and you can make them. Ever hear "I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves."?

@Darrel,

What about property rights? What does the 5th Amendment say: "nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Can the government force me to rent my property to someone whom I would rather not rent to?

Can the government force me to serve hesomeone in my business whom I would rather not serve?

Who gave the government that right? Where is it stated in the Constitution?

Granted, kindness is not defined in the Constitution. We, who are Christian, believe in a higher law, but will government force Christ to allow entrance into His kingdom those whom Christ has not qualified?

You seem to be saying that our property is not our own and that we are all pawns of the government, a government that derives its powers from the governed. If we, the people, hold all the power and all the authority, then where did the government get the right to tell us how we would rent our property and how we would decide who would be renters?

@Mike,

I never brought up property at all. But...

"Can the government force me to rent my property to someone whom I would rather not rent to?" Depends on the reasons...because they are LDS? Because someone offered you more?

You cite the 5th ammendment, which also takes about life and liberty, before property. Government has the job to protect both of those, so it protects my rights to be LDS and to not be denied a roof over my head because I choose to be so.

Again, with the business, if you can come up with a professional bona fide reason, no. However, the government can control Interstate commerce i.e. how business is conducted.

Christ can allow whom he desires into His kingdom. He has earned that right. What He has not given us is the authorization to treat anybody with any less than the love He has shown us. Let God judge them, that is not our place.

@twin lights
I can agree with you they are different but it does influence the kids I work with because it is another reminder that they are viewed as less then, which frankly some bullies use as an excuse for their bulling behaviors. I really was not trying to show disrespect for your religious beliefs and if I did I do apologize. I was attempting encourage you to step into the shoes of the LGBT community in a small way and see it from their perspective. Living in NY , though I am not LDS myself , I am acutely aware of discriminatory attitudes towards the LDS church and other religious minority groups. It is a little strange but I often find myself trying to straighten out misconceptions about the LDS church and while a lot of what I see and hear is more a miss understanding of your religion there are definitely those that would not think twice about discriminating against a member of the LDS church. I hope social attitudes continue to evolve towards increased respect towards both the LGBTQ and religious minorities. thank you for the civil discourse are rare commodity in todays market of ideas.

Obviously Mike Richards would not rent to a homosexual if he was a landlord. Wonder if he would rent to blacks back in the 60's and 70's?

You're not making a good show of yourself Mr. Richards. Best read that bible again and start praying for answers because from what I'm reading you're misguided at best.

"Maybe the reason that the LGBT kids are depressed and feel guilty, is because they know in their heart and soul that what they are doing is not right."

With respect, I don't know what you think I was "doing" during the many years in which I struggled with my sexual orientation, but for the record, I was celibate-- completely.

Sexual orientation isn't a behavior. The depression and guilt I felt had nothing to do with knowing I was "doing" something that wasn't right.

Rather, there was a profound fear that I was something that others despised or made fun of. I didn't "earn" that. I simply recognized that I had a trait that others found evil. And there was simply nothing I could do about it except pretend that I didn't have that trait.

That's the source of the unhappiness and the stress and the misery. It is often referred to as "the Closet."

Peace.

This article will do more good that you can imagine. I've worked with these kids for more than twenty years. I've also been shocked by those who somehow see violence as being acceptable when you encounter something you don't understand. Maya Angelo expressed similar sentiments to those expressed in the editorial. "Hatred is an acid that destroys the vessel that contains it."

Utah seems to be the private TEEN TORTURE capital of America. How many innocent kids are locked up in re-education camps presently? Tens of thousands, I suspect.

Provo Canyon School, Diamond Ranch Academy, Discovery Academy, Teen Help (formerly WWASPS) ET CETERA....

These places reportedly torture kids for profit. And when kids die in these programs, no one is held accountable. That is an indication of deep corruption.

I was locked up in a place like these programs as a teenager. It harms you in a way that no one can see and it never leaves you. When your mind breaks, it is never going back to normal.

Steps should be taken to make sure all who are bullies are stopped. A lot of these bullies are victims in their own homes and need counseling themselves.

I don't think however that there should be a special class of victim.

Children are bullied for being poor,overweight,learning disabled,socially inept, or physically less attractive. Why not address all these issues?

I suspected this might happen.

Finally there is a move to deal with bullying in school, something that has, more or less, been a problem for ages. Then all the attention is diverted to only one class of bullying - that directed at practitioners of the LGBT lifestyles.

Let's talk about bullying and let's expose it as wrong but let's regard straight victims of bullying as being at least equal to those not included in the LGBT agenda. I suspect there are thousands of victims of bullying being ignored because of this unequal viewing of victims.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah
@Darrel,

Granted, kindness is not defined in the Constitution. We, who are Christian, believe in a higher law, but will government force Christ to allow entrance into His kingdom those whom Christ has not qualified?

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Gee, I don’t know if I agree with you Bro. Richards….

1st of all, read the Sermon on the Mount;
2And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

So far, these bullied kids inherit the Kingdom of Heaven and shall be comforted.
Next, I know many Gay and Lesbian Latter-Day Saints – Temple Worthy.

Judgement is not yours.
Least Ye be judged by that same measure...

So the assumption is that because I teach my kids right from wrong (right - self control and living the law of chastity no matter what my inclinations are, wrong- doing what feels good)that I'm encouraging bullying?

"Children are bullied for being poor,overweight,learning disabled,socially inept, or physically less attractive. Why not address all these issues?"

I'm sorry, but when I was growing up we thought those were the only kids who were being bullied. It was NEVER discussed that we should treat homosexual kids like everyone else. I don't remember anyone getting chastised for telling a boy to "stop acting like a girl." It seems to me one of the most popular games played at recess was Smear the Queer.

Like Linguist mentioned, most of these LGBT kids who are bullied, who feel alone, and who are misunderstood are not sexually active. I am sure it tears them up to be reminded that it's their own fault they are depressed. They are suffering from an extreme internal conflict that is brought on by small-minded people who think they understand what is going on with the teens, but they really don't.

It's time many of us stop thinking we know what's best for others and just love them.

George,

First, there is no need for you to apologize. I felt no disrespect from you at all. And I appreciate your defense of LDS beliefs. Thank you.

Second, I think that no person (whatever their challenges in life may be) should be made to feel as if they are somehow less. Given the enormity of what so many must face (in a variety of circumstances, not just LGBT) they simply do not need to start with that kind of handicap in life. They need to know they are more than adequate to the challenges ahead.

The problem we (the LDS community) must address is what behavior we must expect from ourselves even as we deal with those with whom we disagree. As I have tried to indicate, my view is that tolerance and love do not require agreement or sanction - just love and the ability to continue to interact with those whose choices are different than our own.

Finally, thank you as well. More can be solved with civility than without. The marketplace of ideas really cannot function without it. An understanding that our society seems to be losing.

@ O'really

"So the assumption is that because I teach my kids right from wrong (right - self control and living the law of chastity no matter what my inclinations are, wrong- doing what feels good)that I'm encouraging bullying?"

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No, teaching your kids right from wrong is fantastic. But most people would teach that bullying and being mean, regardless of your opinion is wrong.

What I'm tired of is the "bullying" done to ALL children by Media, who insist on blowing the gay issue waaaaay out of proportion to reality. (See The Atlantic article last week that stated while only approximately 2.8% of the population is actually gay, our youth when surveyed report their belief that fully 25% of their friends are gay.) This is a problem! Why such a disconnection from reality? Our youth are at risk of being "taught" that they have a 1 in 4 chance of being gay!!! This is ridiculous. As a 50+ year-old it is crystal clear to me that the Media has an agenda and it is NOT in the best interest of our children.