Nice try Ranch to define it the way that includes the perversion of those who
engage in the behavior of homosexuality. Morally wrong but nice try.There is no room in the Boy Scouts for anyone who engages in the behavior of
homosexuality. Glad the board made the correct decision.
Oh you men make me laugh. How about if we just turn the question around. What
would the public think if men were allowed to take girl scouts on campouts?
Would anybody NOT be alarmed? Would anybody complain about
"discrimination"? Would anybody tell the mothers of those girls to
chill out and to be reasonable?Letting men who have normal
heterosexual feelings go on overnight campouts with girls would just not be
acceptable. Nobody would argue that point.So, why are we arguing
about letting men who like to have sex with other men take young men on
overnight campouts? If you can't figure it out, just ask a mother; she
will set you straight in a hurry.
Who is more of a threat? A openly gay man who is most likely not hiding
anything? Or a predator, who hides as someone else, and then abuses your kids?
I think this is a case of worrying about the wrong things. All gay
men are not predatory, just like all hetro men are not abusing little girls.
Ranch,Why are tou so combative today. Is that the best way to
"win" your argument?Let's answer the question of what
"morally straight" means before getting combative.Can
someone who abuses his body be morally straight?Can someone who
entices someone else to abuse his body be morally straight?Can
someone tell boys that having sex with men or other boys is perfectly acceptable
be morally straight?Can someone who promotes same-sex
"marriage" be morally straight?Instead of defending your
chosen lifestyle, why not admit that your lifestyle choices limit your
interaction with impressionable boys?
Re: Ranch Here, UTThe parents of the boy scouts I know want their
impressionable young men mentored by adult males who do not attracted to the
same sex. When teaching the Boy Scout Oath want leaders who set an example they
@Mike Richards;Thank you ONCE AGAIN for comparing us homosexual to
"sexual predators". You're so kind and knowledgable about the
subject. Like you forget that the majority of sexual predators are heterosexual
men.You ask who a young man should look up to?A Business
man? Check.An honest man? Check.A finacially stable man? Check.A good neighbor? Check.A charitable man? Check.Oh, I forgot.
We gay's can't be any of that. Sorry, buddy, but I meet all those
criteria - AND I would be married to the love of my life, but you
"religious", "god fearing" folks in this great state have said
that I can't.
@Eric;"Morally straight" doesn't mean Heterosexual. It
means MORAL. Being a homosexual or non-Christian doesn't make one amoral
or immoral. We too can be "morally straight". We to live
"moral" lives.You need a lesson in what morality actually
Obviously this is about gay scouts and leaders. The LDS position is that people
with those inclinations are no different from anyone else as long as they behave
morally. So why should the scouts be excluding people with those inclinations?
Who among us doesn't have problematic tendencies?
"To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally
straight." I guess I missed something. Are the Boy
Scouts going to exclude couch potatoes, people who brag that they
"haven't read a book since high school" and those who cheat on
their taxes from becoming leaders? That actually sounds like positive change to
Re: Esquire Springville, UT"Whose moral standards should they apply,
yours?"One man's definition of promiscuity is another
man's definition of acceptable moral standards.
@ Curmudgeon,What kind of person do you want your boys to look up
to? What morals are sacred to you? What kind of jokes do you want your boys to
hear? What kind of activities do you want your boys to participate in?For that matter, what is repentance to you. Does it include confessing? Does
it include forsaking? Does it include counciling? Does it include restitution?
Who certifies that the behavior has stopped? I certainly believe in
repentence, but not repeated repentence for the same type of activity.One of my sons left a suicide note that "damned" a scout leader for
something that had happened more than a decade before. How much was that scout
leader responsible for his suicide? We'll never know. Action have
It is a very sad thing that the BSA has closed their doors to many young men and
their families. I can't support an organization that won't treat
everyone with respect.
Mike:You are consistent if nothing else. So it follows that vetting
a prospective Boy Scout leader would require an inquiry into whether he has ever
had sex outside of marriage, right? That would, of course, eliminate a lot of
men from consideration, and might result in a severe shortage of leaders. But
the bar would still be held high.What if the errant male had
repented? Would you still be the first one to throw a stone? Is there room in
your world for redemption and forgiveness? Is that just possibly a component of
being "morally straight"?
Esquire asked, "Whose moral standards should they apply, yours?"No. I'm neither God nor hundreds of generations before ours who
overwhelmingly found same-sex relations to be destructive and taboo. But I do
try to learn from them. You can find out for yourself. Perhaps try reading as
many modern objective studies you can find about the problems that accompany
@ Curmudgeon,If you've read my posts over the years, you will
know that I stand 100% behind total sexual abstinence outside of marriage. No
sex before marriage. No extra-marital sex within marriage. Because marriage
has been defined as a union between a man and a woman, that automatically means
no same-sex sex.That is part of being "morally straight".
Sex is not the only component of being "morally straight"; but, as I see
it, no person can engage in same-sex sex, extra-marital sex, or premarital sex
and claim to be "morally straight".Boys accept as normal the
lives of their leaders. No boy should ever be exposed to a double standard by
any leader. If the leader doesn't believe in the program enough to live by
the rules that are binding on the boys, that person should not be allowed to be
It isn’t a coincidence that the scout oath contains the words,
“morally straight” since its inception.
Mike Richards:While I agree that the BSA should be able to set its
own standards for its leaders, and that homosexual sex is wrong, isn't it a
little over the top to label all homosexuals as predators? That smacks of
paranoia and stereotyping.For consistency, I hope you would apply
the same strict standard to heterosexual men who engage in extra-marital sex,
which I suspect is also not "morally straight" in your eyes. Boys do
not need that kind of example either.
Re: Esquire Springville, UT"Whose moral standards should they apply,
yours?"Ask any eagle scout and he will explain the Scout Oath
and exactly what it means to be "morally straight".
Are morals debatable? Have we been blinded by the gay agenda to the point that
we don't know the meaning of "morally straight"?Our
children need to be protected from predators who would use them and abuse them.
Letting a predator serve as a leader of young boys, boys who respect leaders,
would destroy those boys so that that "leader" could find
self-gratification in abusing those whom he was charged to protect.Keep the predators far from our impressionable youth.Keep the
predators far from those who would submit to the appetites and passions of those
"leaders".Keep the predators from destroying the lives of
those whom they were charged to teach and lead.No person who is
known to engage in same-sex sex is qualified to lead boys. Boys do not need
that kind of example. Boys, and their parents, should know that their leaders
are "morally straight".
Shouldn't the objective be creating better citizens? If we are concerned
with only a portion of young people, then we are not utilizing all of the
available resource going forward. Is this any way to prepare for the future?
letters a little late. BSA already said they are not making any changes
in relation to homosexuals serving as scout masters.
Whose moral standards should they apply, yours? And it also leads to the same
argument that scouting used to resist change: you aren't forced to join
this private organization.
Let's suspend judgment until their consideration is complete. I, too,
expect standards of morality to be upheld. Hopefully their consideration
process will allow them to refine their stance on this contentious issue. It should be that religious morality shows love for all people and
allows them latitude of choice, but cannot condone behavior that is destructive
to both families and society.Support your annual Friends of Scouting