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Comments about ‘Defending the Faith: We can learn from history and the sins of Nephites’

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Published: Thursday, June 7 2012 5:00 a.m. MDT

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Rikitikitavi
Cardston, Alberta

All who have taken Moroni 10:3-5 to heart clearly know the power of this witness for Christ. Page after page testify of the Savior and especially in Mosiah teach of the Atonement and in III Neph recount the visit to the American continent of the Lord himself. This volume is indeed written for our day. All the misdeeds of the Nephites are examples for us to learn from and certainly to avoid.

Thinkman
Provo, UT

I took Moroni 10:3-5 to heart each time (12-14 times) I read the Book of Mormon cover to cover. I thought I KNEW it to be a true account of ancient Americans as claimed by the title page and Joseph Smith.

After using logic, reason and doing some research on from LDS church historical sources, I later realized that I KNEW without reservation, that the Book of Mormon was a concoction promoted, if not written by Joseph Smith.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Thinkman,

Obviously either your first conclusion was true or your second was.

Other than the application of logic and reason (which certainly many converts have had to do when entering the church) was there ANY other difference between your first and second conclusion?

I am curious because I know a lot of very well-versed LDS with pretty substantial "logic modules" who still have a testimony of the BOM.

airnaut
Everett, 00

Dr. Peterson left out what the Anti-Christs taught the people with those flattering words…

That they were better [more blessed] by God,
That they deserved what God blessed them with,
[That whole PRIDE of materialism]
And that they should despised the poor and needy, saying they brought it upon themselves as a judgment from God himself and so they should not be inclined to re-distribute the wealth they’d been given so freely.

About the same things I hear on AM talk radio.

BTW – It was not the sexual immorality that caused their ultimate demise,
But their OFFENSIVE wars and allowing greeding Gadianton’s to direct their Government into War-Profiteering by going into the Lamanites lands, seeking to utterly destroy them, to rob, and plunder once and take all [rather than defensively protecting their lands and families and religion on their own turf] that God withdrew his blessing and allowed the “un-believing” yet less-wicked Lamanites to wipe them out.

Materialism, Greed, and Pride was their down-fall.

And in the end, God saved --
the long-haired,
pipe-smoking,
Commune living,
1/2 naked,
unbelieveing Lamanites.
The Liberals.

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: We can learn from history,and Biblical languages.

All who have taken Moroni 10:3-5 to heart clearly know the power of this witness for Christ?
OK,read Moroni 10:34. Jehovah( YHWH )The Eternal Judge.

From LDS revelation, we learn that Jehovah is the English form of the actual name by which the Lord Jesus was known ANCIETLY (D&C 110:3 ,Jehovah appears to JS, ‘Abraham 2:8 ‘,My is name is Jehovah) 788 Mormon Doctrine. s/b YHWH, JS was unaware of the poor KJV and didn’t know the Personal name of God(LORD)YHWH.

Abeille
West Haven, Utah

Sharrona,

I've seen you write this stuff several times before, and I don't understand your point. Are you trying to say that Joseph Smith didn't know who YahWeh was (YHWH), and that he confused him with Jehovah? The LDS people believe that Jesus was the God of the Old Testament. He was known as YHWH, or Jehovah. He was the Creator of all things. Even Wikipedia shows that YHWH = YahWeh, and the first line of text even says, "Yahweh, often rendered Jehovah or the LORD (in small capitals), is the god of Israel in the Hebrew Bible." Seems like more than just the LDS understand this. Also, you say 'JS was unaware of the poor KJV and didn't know the Peresonal name of God (LORD) YHWH.' First, by his own history, he quotes James 1:5 verbatim out of the KJV version of the Bible (see JSH:11). Second he, along with other church leaders, studied Hebrew in the School of the Prophets. So, I'm quite certain he knew that YHWH was a name of Jehovah - the Lord, Jesus Christ. But more importantly, he had met him - something neither you nor I can claim.

filovirus
Salem, OR

@ airnaut
"That they were better [more blessed] by God,
That they deserved what God blessed them with,
[That whole PRIDE of materialism]
And that they should despised the poor and needy, saying they brought it upon themselves as a judgment from God himself and so they should not be inclined to re-distribute the wealth they’d been given so freely."

I think Alma's and Mosiah's sons were more following the Order of Nehor than teaching what the people of land of Antionum believed. The Zoramites were probably more associated with Lamanites than with the Nephites, whereas the Order of Nehor was a competing religion who had a differing view on Christ and the atonement.

Also, the Nephites didn't work in a re-distribution of wealth system, but rather a system where everyone worked for their own needs. Or rather, they didn't believe that the upper class should get rich at the lower class' expense and not actually earn their own keep.

A Scientist
Provo, UT

I have taken Moroni's Challenge too, a number of times, and all I got was a firm conviction that the book is contrived fiction with a lot of King James Bible passages quoted in it.

Of course, you must not dismiss my testimony out of hand. Read my words carefully. Pray about it. Study it out in your hearts and in your minds. Ask the Holy Phantom if it is not true. If you ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith that it is true, the truth of my words will be manifest unto you.

If you conclude that my words are false, then you lack sincerity, lack humility, lack faith, or are otherwise unworthy.

Trust me.

User41
Provo, UT

From the article: "Do we know, though, how to recognize their modern counterparts?" -- Oh, come now Dr. Peterson... The comment sections of your articles are always rife with these counterparts! How could we miss them?

ScottH
MEDFORD, MA

"Do we know, though, how to recognize their modern counterparts? And, please, don't doubt that they exist." If you know they exist, are you not doing everyone a grave dis-service by calling them out by name, rather than by innuendo? "We know that terrorists exists and are plotting to destroy us... I know who they are, I know them by name". It seems that a threat like you describe, with the information that you have, needs to be shared broadly - for the sake of the souls that you are so desperate to save.

MarkH
England, 00

So professor Peterson calls out the sins of the Nephites and then tosses it over the wall with his question "how to recognize their modern counterparts?" No hints, no analysis or rational indiction? Looks like now anyone who reads this can simply apply it to anyone who doesnt share his or her particular beliefs or view of the world. Political idealogies? Scientific community? social and cultural activists? people who drive jeeps and wear Tommy Bahama shirts? All are fair game. Sorry, professor, your article doesnt go far enough and amounts to a bunch of sunday school class pablum with big words.

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

How very interesting it would be to know on what planet the Book of Mormon people were inhabitants. There certainly is no evidence of their having lived on planet earth. Anyway, the BOM is only secondary to a believe and acceptance of the LDS faith: Joseph Smith is the key issue: if in deed the greatest unique event in all man's history the Personal appearance of God Himself and Jesus the Christ did congregate and speak with Joseph Smith then that is of such gigantic significance that all other following events are just frosting on the cake. If indeed there is a cake, and that is the question.

JLFuller
Boise, ID

If there was ever a correlation to today's political scene in America, Dr. Peterson hit it on the head. The flattering words of the socialists leading the children away is as obvious as anything ever was.

Ernest T. Bass
Bountiful, UT

Wow. An incredible amount of hubris, and I'm not talking about the Nephites.

Samuel the Liberalite
Farmington, UT

filovirus
Salem, OR

Read the prayer given from the Rameumptom;

“…but we believe that thou hast elected us to be thy holy children;
“…thou hast elected us that we shall be saved, whilst all around us are elected to be cast by thy wrath down to hell;
“…O God, we thank thee; and we also thank thee that thou hast elected us,
“…And again we thank thee, O God, that we are a chosen and a holy people. Amen.”

Now it came to pass that after Alma and his brethren and his sons had heard these prayers, they were astonished beyond ALL measure.

To me, it's like those who listen to Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity.

and you said, "Also, the Nephites didn't work in a redistribution of wealth system"

[I disagree - Having ALL things in common IS precisely the definition of re-distribution of wealth. Just as the Family unit, the United Order, Zionism, and the Kingdom of Heaven are all Socialist/Communist organizations – I know Conservatives have a hard time with that, but the facts are the facts.]

-RJ-
South Jordan, UT

An insult to my TBM faithful parents sir.

Vin
Harrisville, UT

The beginning of Mosiah 26 explains clearly some factors that caused this rising generation to fall into unbelief:

5: "because of the dissensions among the [church] brethren they [the unbelievers] became more numerous"
6: "For it came to pass that they did adeceive many with their flattering words, who were in the church, and did cause them to commit many sins"

I think Dr. Peterson has been involved in this himself, but just like him, I'm going to coyly omit specifics.

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: Abeillehe, JS studied Hebrew in the School of the Prophets.

Joseph Smith said,“Eloheim is from the word Eloi, God is singular number; and by adding the word heim ,it renders it “Gods.” ( H of C, 1844),Wrong.
In Hebrew the form of the word Elohim, with the ending -im, which normally indicates a masculine plural, however with Elohim the construction is usually grammatically SINGULAR, (i.e. it governs a singular verb or adjective) when referring to the Hebrew God, but grammatically plural (i.e. taking a plural verb or adjective) . See # 430 Strong’s Hebrew concordance translates Elohim to God in the on (KJV),.Not Gods.
“In the beginning God” (Genesis 1:1 Greek Septuagint) ,not Gods.

Q. What is the Father? A. He is a personage of glory and of power. (5:2.). Lectures on Faith. School of Prophets. JS agrees God is Spirit..…”(John 4:24).

sharrona
layton, UT

@Abeillehe,JS studied Hebrew in the School of the Prophets. Also theology.
The School of Prophets. Q. What is the Father? A. He is a personage of glory and of power. (5:2.). Lectures on Faith.

J S,“Eloheim is from the word Eloi, God is singular number; and by adding the word heim ,it renders it “Gods.” ( H of C, 1844).
In Hebrew the form of the word Elohim, with the ending-im, which normally indicates a masculine plural, however with Elohim the construction is usually grammatically SINGULAR, (i.e. it governs a singular verb or adjective) when referring to the Hebrew God, but grammatically plural (i.e. taking a plural verb or adjective) . See # 430 Strong’s Hebrew concordance translates Elohim to God in the on (KJV),.Not Gods.

“In the beginning God” (Genesis 1:1 Greek Septuagint) ,not Gods.

Ernest T. Bass
Bountiful, UT

Why doesn't FAIR/FARMS & Mr Peterson just answer the questions? Their spin and convoluted possibilities make Fox New look outright objective by comparison.

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