Comments about ‘Letter: Health and health care’

My dad had to wait two days to see a specialist in Germany and within a week was able to have his surgery. I had to wait 6 weeks to see a specialist in the US and needed 2 weeks to be able to have my surgery. Maybe the reason why wait times is longer (if they even are) in nations with socialist healthcare is because in this nation 10-15% of people don't have health insurance and as a result are denied access to healthcare aside from emergency situations. That's not exactly a good reason to have decreased wait times... at least not to anyone who thinks the right to life is important.

The U.S. has the world's best disease care system. Our healthcare system, not so much.

About 400 B.C., Socrates observed that "The citizen properly trained in maintaining his own health will rarely need doctors."

Socrates was wrong.

Gosh, is this really the best conservatives can do?

Are repubs so desperate that they have to relate to a guy who lived over 2,000 years ago and use his philosophical quotes (taken out of context) in order to overrule modern science, which includes a far greater understanding of microbes, genetics, and disease prevention?

Should we ignore the dozens upon dozens of industrialized countries where socialized medicine is working great? Should we ignore how truly broken, overly expensive, and completely ridiculous our FOR PROFIT (free market) system is?

While we're at it repubs, lets go back to cannons and horses instead of smart bombs and aircraft carriers to defend America.

Jeez!

"other than yielding a six month waiting period for critical operations."

I live in a country with UHC, you do not wait 6 months for critical operations as people tend to die waiting for them. Critical operations go first with no waits, non critical operations you have to wait for sometimes.

Regarding costs, UHC countries spend around half the amount per person than what is spent in the US.

First, the state of medicine in 400 B.C. was such that taking care of your own health was probably a better option in most cases. It bears little relationship to modern western medicine.

Second, Obamacare is not socialized medicine. If we think it is, then we misunderstand the term.

Third, versus other advanced nations, we have the most free market based healthcare system in the world. We also have the most expensive (by a huge margin) and with rather average outcomes when compared to our technological peers. Super high cost with no better outcomes (or even worse outcomes) is not a recipe for success nor for global competitiveness.

We can argue which is the best way forward. But it is clearly not to go back to where we were.

Frank, your point is well taken. Certainly we as Americans - and I definitely include myself - live irresponsibly in the way we treat our bodies. But certainly you have to agree that some health conditions cannot be blamed on the individual. 25 years ago, while living in Utah, my three-year-old son was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes. This diagnosis coincided with my attempts to start a small business with two partners. We desired to provide health insurance coverage to our employees but because we were "a small group" and especially because of my son's diabetes, no insurance company would cover us...for any premium amount. I inquiredat at the state insurance commissioner's office and asked what a person in my situation should do and I was told "Go work for a larger organization."

I have since done that very thing but it seems that answer violates the entrepreneurial spirit that built our nation. I wasn't asking for a handout, just a chance to pay for coverage and no company would do it. I have had others suggest that government programs are in place to help me out of that situation and my response has been "Exactly."

Frank, when was the last time you got an appointment with a specialist? Why can't you see the difference between a single payer, universal healthcare system and socialized medicine? The costs of our healthcare system will be what brings us to bankruptcy so you had better see the light soon. You, today are paying a 33 percent tax to the insurance company before you ever get a thermometer stuck in your mouth.

Right now our health care is controled by big business, the mega insurance industry. They don't want to see public health care because they will lose money. Instead of paying Blue Cross Blue Shield or whoever that money could go to cover public health care. Our employer could get out the the health insurance business. We could find a job, change jobs or retire with out worrying about health insurance. We already have Medicare, just fix the problems with fraud and waste put us all on a similar plan and get rid of the insurance industry. There now that problem is fixed. I know pretty naive of me.

@ Frank: Your letter is a false dichotomy: be healthy by taking care of your health or be healthy by going to the doctor.

This is not an either/or situation.

Sometimes in spite of the best a person does they need medical care. Sometimes in spite of the worst a person does they don't need medical care.

George Burns, who drank and smoked (things your letter states should have killed him early) lived to be 100.
Jason Collier was a college athlete who did everything you are supposed to do to be and stay healthy who died at 28 from a heart condition.

During the early part of WWII, before penicillin was perfected, people died of blood poisoning from infections that occurred when they skinned their knees or cut themselves shaving - things we don't even give a second thought to now.

Taking everything into consideration - those that drink themselves to death at an early age and those who remain active and healthy to a very old age and every combination in between - people in the US pay more for healthcare and have less to show for it than those in any other civilized country.

Frank,
what you are talking about smacks of personal responsibility, which is anathema to liberals

@Twin Lights
Your absolutley right. Let me take your second point even further however. Our current system is actually more socialized than Obamacare. Under our current system if you get sick and are uninsured and can't pay for it you can go to the ER and get care. For free. Who pays for that? Well, that would be a combination of the facility providing care, and the consumers who do pay, meaning insurance companies and people who pay for healthcare out of pocket. That is socialism, society decided(or is forced)to pay for the health of other people. Obamacare forces millions of people to pay private companies. I fail to see how Obamacare is more socialist than our current system.

How can anyone know what health-care costs in Countries with UHC? All we know is whatever cost the Gov. chooses to report. I for one, am very skeptical.

Re: "Should we ignore the dozens upon dozens of industrialized countries where socialized medicine is working great?"

Yeah, we should.

Particularly since there aren't dozens and dozens.

And also because in those one or two that do actually work, the system remains barely afloat because there is an unwritten but inherent compact between their citizens and government not to abuse the system.

Too many Americans, and most aliens served by the American healthcare system honor no such compact, routinely abusing the existing system.

That's why Obamacare won't work. As we all know, it WILL impose rationing, limitations, and, yes, death panels, that will destroy the best healthcare system in the world.

All because Americans won't -- and government can't -- exercise the restraint necessry to permit a "free" healthcare system to limp along on a long-term basis, as those one or two eurosocialist systems do.

Using George Burns as a paradigm for healthy habits is equivalent to using a survivor of a Mt. Everest climb as an argument that it was not dangerous. No responsible physician would recommend his choices. UHC in the UK and other countries is generally good for acute medical conditions. For chronic conditions such as arthritis, heart disease, low back problems, etc. you are on a long waiting list. The rule is: If you want a quality doctor in the pubic system after 3 PM, good luck. While the US system has superb, if not the best, science, it is rife with waste, profiteering, conflict of interest and fraud.

"what you are talking about smacks of personal responsibility, which is anathema to liberals"

Which makes a lot of sense right? Since all southern (repub controlled) states aren't listed as the fattest, never eat anything fried, and never use road kill as a meal.

You can "clearly" see how states controlled by repubs are always more responsible, take personal accountability for their situations, etc...

sigh..

"what you are talking about smacks of personal responsibility, which is anathema to liberals" To say you are wrong is the kindest thing I can conjure up. To say you are misinformed would be to understate the truth. To say you are factully challenged would be getting close to the truth, but to say you are a willful, hyperboliclly, leaning idealogue would be the closest I could come on this thread.

I would also guess you don't get out much.

There is a lot of truth in the article. If most of us took better care of ourselves with sensible eating, exercise and reasonable lifestyles, need for medical care would be much less of an issue.

In 1964 I was a college student and a Democrat Senator spoke to the student body about the dangers of Medicare. He discussed a number of hazards, such as widespread fraud, rising medical costs, tendency to become more dependent on government among them. In 1967, I acquired a job that compelled me to understand medicare thoroughly. It soon became evident that those issues that senator detailed were happening before my eyes. It was daunting, and has become much more so. I started that job six months after medicare went into effect, and one of the worst parts was trying to deal with medical providers that overbilled, charged for services not provided and otherwise cheated. That is just a tip of the iceberg with problems that come from government involved in health care.

"a recent CNN TV special endorses socialized medicine (and by inference Obamacare)"

I wish I could impose socialized medicine on America, so that the ill-informed could understand what it really is. Then they'd realized "Oh! Obamacare wasn't socialized medicine! It was government support of capitalism, by keeping a private industry (insurance) entrenched in the health care system."

It is easier to blame someone else than yourself...

Recent reports show that nearly 50% of Americans are OBESE. That is not overweight... that is OBESE.

Some of the most common health conditions plauging our country (high blood pressure, diabetes, joint and bone problems, heart disease) can be directly tied to OBESITY.

It is so amusing to watch all these comments blame the repubs or the liberals or whatever...

People are fat. Really fat. And it is making them sick. Their fatness and the food they are eating and the lack of activity is making them sick.

With half of our country big fat fatties... how can we expect cheap healthcare?

How can you complain about rising healthcare costs and shove a McDonalds #5 down your throat at the same time?

Personal responsbility people.

Even more amusing are the attacks on insurance companies and healthcare providers...

What if some 450 pound obese dude rolled up to you in oversized wheelchair and said "Hey, if I pay you $1,000 a month, will you pay for all of my healthcare costs?"

Would you make that deal? Would you bank on the fact that the $12,000 that he pays you is going to cover the cost of the healthcare he will need this year... or next year?

puhhhlleeeeze. People are ticking time bombs and we complain when companies don't gladly pick them up and hold them tight until they explode.

Quit feeling so entitled.

Take care of yourself.

Personal responsbility.