People have turned this into a rivalry discussion again and, once again, are
missing the point. The BYU part of the article was about the arbitrary and
subjective "justice" of the NCAA. These are not paid players. If an
athlete wants to recant on a signed contract, there should be language built not
the contract that includes restitution to the institution for the investment
made on the part of the individual, but not prejudicial to competing entities,
especially at the whim of the coach (with whom the contract wasn't even
made; the contract is with the institution). This is just another
example of anticompetitive behavior that is plain as day that no one has the
gall to do anything about. USC and Ohio were two similar cases with a world of
difference in punishment. The point of NCAA regulations was intended to make
competition fair, but they're clearly more interested in being more fair to
some than others.
@JustSmilingLOL, funniest post ever, since you totally just
validated what President Uchtdorf was saying! Nowhere in that quote did I see
President Uchtdorf say that the BYU athletics department wasn't a
missionary tool. What I did see was him warning against pride in
sports between fans and letting it turn into hatred for other people, or
contention, or malice, etc.I'm going to assume that includes
people coming onto their rivals' comment boards and manipulating a quote
from a member of the First Presidency to talk smack.LOL, like I
said, thanks for validating what he was saying, your post was the perfect
example of it! I really am just smiling. Got a good laugh out of that one!From the mission statement of the BYU athletic department (approved by
the church): "Our mission is to conduct the Athletics program in a manner
that will develop student-athletes of excellence in academics, athletics, faith,
and character, and to contribute to the mission of the LDS Church through the
visibility of our positive example and our accomplishments." Sounds like a missionary tool to me.But thanks again for the
laugh, that was great!Go Cougars!
In response to those trying to say that byu sports. especially football, is a
great missionary tool I quote President Uchtdorf: This sin has many faces. It
leads some to revel in their own perceived self-worth, accomplishments, talents,
or position. They count these blessings as evidence of being chosen,superior, or
more righteous; than others. For others, pride turns to envy: they look
bitterly at those who have better positions (PAC-12), more talents, (54-10) or
greater possessions than they do (PAC-12). They seek to hurt, diminish, and tear
down others in a misguided and unworthy attempt at self-elevation. Perhaps there
is no better laboratory to observe the sin of pride than the world of sports.
There are times when the lack of civility in sports is embarrassing. How is it
that normally kind and compassionate human beings can be so intolerant and
filled with hatred toward an opposing team and its fans? I have watched sports
fans vilify and demonize their rivals. They justify their hatred with broad
generalizations and apply them to everyone associated with the other team ( Max
Hall). Missionary tool??? I don't think so.
Go Utes,In your case arrogance seems to be a perceived notion based upon
bias. I have been all over the country and the only people I have heard use the
word "arrogance" in association with BYU are Utah fans. I respect your
opinion, but also factor in that it is biased.
Duckhunter - "And you and go utes are proving Max to be
@devilsh uteAnd you and go utes are proving Max to be correct.
@go utesSo waht you are really telling us is you are a utah
"fan" that is tired of having your overall sports program pounded on by
BYU's, you don't like the competition so your weak position is for the
church to just discontinue sports at its falgship university so your school
doesn't have to get embarrassed trying to compete with it. Rest
assured you are one of many LDS utah "fans" with similar wishes. You all
suffer trying to rationalize to yourselves why you actually hate one of the
great, and most important institutions of our church. It is pitiful but I have
seen it beforemany, many, times. I personally love the angst it appears to cause
The "money" at BYU during their "glory" years was never talked
about. It was easy back then. Now, it is very difficult. There is a real reason
why 1984 occurred.
Some of you are proving Go Utes' point right on this thread.DC
- Max who?
@ Go UtesRe-reading your comments for content, I can only conclude
that your real beef is not with BYU and it's arrogance and rudeness, but
only with the athletic programs. Therefore, when I look at the athletic
programs of BYU and other institutions, even within the state of Utah, I can
only conclude one thing:What hacks you off is their success.
being privy to some inside information about Chow's time at Utah, nothing
Norm Chow does would surprise me.
Go Utes - proving Maxie right once again. Pompous attitude is sickening.
@Go Utes "I am not sure what is going on at BYU, but the arrogance of too
many and other concerns are so unbecoming a university that purports to
represent the church."Not sure where you're getting that
attitude from, or what (if any) proof you have of this supposed 'BYU
arrogance'. BYU athletics is a great missionary tool for the church.
It's not the end-all be-all, and it's not meant to be. But
there's no question it's been a force for good.Curtis
Brown came to play football as someone of a different faith. He left as a
member of the Church because of the great examples and support shown by his
teammates. Brian Logan and Juice Quezada have all talked about what a great
support the church has been to them, and they aren't members.Jimmermania was big for BYU, but bigger still for the Church was the Brandon
Davies situation. There was a TON of positive PR from that great story of
redemption.Not to mention all of the firesides given by the football
team.I'd say BYU athletics does a fine job of leaving a good
@ Y Grad / Y DadYou raise good points. I see that my use of the
word "constantly" was distracting to you. I hope that you realized that
I used that word figuratively. I assure you that I sleep and do other things
each day besides apologize for frequently-observed poor sportsmanship,
arrogance, pride, etc. at BYU. I did hope to convey that I have had to
apologize/ defend far too often. Yes, even outside of my bubble in Salt Lake
City when I have travelled. Sadly, I see these unfavorable traits in many (but
certainly not all) of its graduates as well, even those not affiliated with the
athletics programs. I am not sure what is going on at BYU, but the arrogance of
too many and other concerns are so unbecoming a university that purports to
represent the church. As stated earlier, the church would be better off
discontinuing athletics at BYU, as with Ricks college. I would like to see a
study as to how many converts to the church BYU athletics is responsible for.
If it is truly great, I wonder why the church did not try to build the Ricks
program up. Best wishes.
@ Go UtesI can understand some people loving all things BYU for many
reasons, including what it TRIES to be. I can understand some people
hating all things BYU for many reasons, including what it TRIES to be, but
isn't. But I think if you are CONSTANTLY apologizing for
BYU's sports teams, in Salt Lake City, then one of two things is at play:
either you are the one in a bubble, surrounded to an unhealthy extent by like
minded haters, or you got a lot of people really puzzled by your obsession. I too am as Mormon as they come, and yes, I have occasionally had to
apologize or explain something incongruous about BYU athletics or it's
fans behavior. More often than not, I have been pleased with the opportunities
BYU athletics have given me to discuss more important things with individuals
@ JParkerfanReally? I am as LDS as they come and I find BYU sports
an embarassment to the church. If you can't comprehend how some LDS are
not Y fans, you really need to question some of the gross assumptions upon which
you have been raised. The sooner BYU cancels its sports program, the better.
Ricks had the right idea when it changed to BYU Idaho. I have constantly had to
defend the church by noting that BYU and its fans by no means represents the
vast majority of Mormons throughout the earth. Time to get out of
the bubble dude. If you are judging a church by the strength of the sports
program at one of the schools that it runs, it is time to rethink some things.
Somehow I have a feeling that the work of the church would go forward without
BYU sports. Crazy idea, I know, but just might be true.
This is just more fallout from Riley Nelson's transfer from Utah State and
the resultant "Riley Nelson Rule" the NCAA instituted. I suspect the end
result is that more institutions will discourage their athletes from serving
missions because of fear the BYU will poach them.
Never could figure out how LDS could claim they aren't fans of BYU. If BYU
does well then that is good for the church. I certainly like other college
programs, but will always be a fan of the church's University.Hope J. Parker is smart on his college and goes somewhere that has a classy
and moral coach. That pretty much narrows it down to BYU, MSU, and UNC.
Jabari Parker's mission decision is nobody's business but his own -
not even his family or bishop!
hedgehog,You're right. Norm is a better fit for the utes.
I've known him for years, and can honestly say that the utes and chow
deserve each other. Doug Scoville was thw right fit for the cougs.
Not every Mormon is a byu fan, and not every byu alumnus is a byu fan either.
I find it ironic when a certain fan base wants to keep Parker's mission
decision quiet, because at this point, it doesn't appear he's leaning
towards Provo. However, they are secretely hoping/praying he'll decide to
serve, because it will give Rose two extra years to recruit him.
Would everybody please lay off Jabari Parker and his personal decision on
whether to serve a mission or not. It's nobody's business and
shouldn't even be the subject of speculation, particularly by newspaper
reporters working for a church owned publication. He's a celebrity and I
understand his life is open to scrutiny. But some things are off limits and I
consider this one of them.On Norm Chow, I'm not sure why people
are surprised. Many coaches prevent transfers from staying in conference. For
Hawaii, BYU is one of its biggest games and rivals (although not reciprocated by
BYU), so why would he allow him to transfer here. I don't have a problem
with it, don't think it's petty, and could easily understand it if it
were the other way around.
Norm chow will always be a Ute at heart. When he retires at Hawaii he'll
always look back on his time as a coach at Utah with fond memories.
worf"Norm Chow was never a good fit for BYU.That's funny
stuff." 27 years and he wasn't a good fit. Ha!Roscoe is going to get busted by the NCAA for meaningless slogans, frumpy
t-shirts, and Pop Warner-type rituals.
Norm Chow was never a good fit for BYU. It was Doug Scoville who built the
passing game for the Cougs, and if not for Edwards, Norm would have been a short
Unbelievable! The NCAA can work hard to sanction a coach for being polite, yet
turn a blind eye to let Ohio State's "Tattoo Five" play in a BCS
Light reading, thanks. Parker's mission decision is off limits to anyone
other than family and his bishop. That includes trolls and the press, your poll
notwithstanding. It is very personal decision.