It's so sad to see the criticism flailing back and forth between
people's choices with how they're spending their 24 hours each day.
Like any decision, it is personal and we can't criticize others'
choices. My father chose the military as his career, and did not regard his
sons' decisions of music or business as an affront to the Army. :)An
article touting the benefits of apples doesn't inherently imply oranges are
bad or second rate. I felt like this article seeks to clarify that for many who
choose to be home with their kids, it is an open-eyed and intelligent and
deliberate decision. It seeks to give credit for that decision where credit is
due. We as a society need to respect and regard motherhood as a legitimate
career path much like lawyer or business entrepreneur or teacher. Yes, it goes
deeper and longer-term, but let's start there and quit bickering.
In my family, extended family, and neighborhood almost everyone worked. Mom and
dad worked full time and also managed our baseball teams, got involved in our
school efforts, and were always there for us. We didn't have a lot of
money. We had to work to afford our own car insurance and opportunistically
drive our parents cars when they were available. We had to take school loans
and work out college for ourselves financially. I in particular have been
working since I was a kid in little league baseball. Watching them lead that
life by example gave us kids a strong work ethic.The reality is a
working mom who's also a parent has a lot more on her plate than one who
doesn't have to work.Work takes up atleast 8 hours a day, 5
days a week, for life!!! There's no replacing that with being at home and
saying it's just as much if not more work. So you have to raise the kids
(when they're home from school), so you have to do the laundry, dishes,
yard work, whatever. So do working moms .... AFTER WORK.
I respect and appreciate the variety of truths that we are sharing here. This
topic is not just sociology; it is psychology, theology, all the -ologies you
can think of, probably; it's deeply existential--a matter of human identity
and being, and I sense my personal ignorance to speak adequately about this, yet
I wish to contribute meaningfully. Regardless... as Wendell Berry says,
"Respect, I think, always implies imagination--the ability to see one
another, across our inevitable differences, as living souls." And as
always, W.H. Auden presents a valid either-or: "We must love each other or
die." But no last words for now . . . to put to rest is to put to sleep, in
the veterinary sense; we should leave somethings alone, but never leave each
other alone, in the sense of abandonment or dismissal. Compassion gives us a
atl134 writes: "So you think it's immoral for women to work? Or for a
father to be the stay-at-home parent?"This story is about
children and most of us didn't consider ourselves in that category by the
time we were in high school.
Lasvegaspam,Sometime when you have time. Look up Harlo's
experiment. You'll find it informative on the importance of mothers.I'd say the two thousand stripling soldiers had full time stay at
Shaun, At the end of the day nobody cares about your child the way you do.
Have you never babysat for another child, only to discover, surprise, surprise,
that yes, you can keep him/her safe and clean and fed, but you cannot even force
yourself to care about another child the way you care about your own? If
you’re a Mom, you understand this because you’ve experienced it.
My child goes to daycare and my child is more outgoing than my friends children
who happen to stay at home with their mom. Plus my child does so
many activities at daycare that I do not think any stay at home mother could
have the energy to accomplish all what my child receives during the day. Also what is missing from this conversation is the effort of parent(s).
I know stay at home mothers who barely acknowledge their children and watch tv
all day and basically parent from the couch.
In order to stay at home with my children, I found that we could live on less.
We had an older fixer upper home, only one good car, and we didn't eat out
much or buy prepared foods. I baked a lot and grew a home garden. I also tended
some of the best children, for wonderful mothers. Mothers who dropped their
children off as the last thing before they went to work and picked them up
first. Mothers who I made lunch for so they could nurse their babies. I taught
the children to call me Auntie. Many families have both parents work because
they want to. Really some are working for the extra things. Some are working
because they would have nothing otherwise. It is Okay if your career is very
important to you. We all make choices and should not have to justify or explain.
Mothers that work outside of the home are no less mothers then those who work in
re: I AM LDS 2So how do you "define" success as a mother?I'd really like to know your check boxes!!!!And HOW do
you 'respect' them more? You just showed your true colors. RE:GZEYou need to get out more because I see women everyday who
have "Mom" at about #17 on their list. They are stay-@-home, working
and all other types. Not every Mom is a Mom 24/7. SOme just got stuck with a
So, Redshirt, let's put a fine point on this: you erroneously asserted
"The experts all agree that outsourcing parenting to daycares results in bad
behavior." Your statement is not only not true, but the research you,
yourself, cited, contradicted that very assertion.We call that
misleading people.Remember what President Kimball said about any
communication made with intent to deceive?The most recent research
on Child Care (within the past 5 years) does NOT support your claims. Children
parented by SAHMoms are NOT better behaved, are NOT smarter, are NOT more
emotionally stable or anything of the sort.But you have your mind
made up, so rather than search for the truth, you search for anything and
everything you can throw against the wall in support of your preconceived
notions and see if anything will stick.That is not science. That is
not journalism. And that is not honest.
I M LDS 2: To suggest that doing both (being a full-time Mom and a full-time
employee) is THE most admirable thing is (to quote you) wrongheaded and
infuriating! Both things require dedication and skill – being a
full-time, at home Mom and being a full-time employee. Why would anyone suggest
that doing BOTH is ideal, or most admirable? Are you
anti-female?Would this ever be required of a man? How
could anyone, by any stretch of the imagination, consider this ideal for
Redshirt,Don't let the facts get in the way of completely
distorting the truth!From the (over 5-years outdated) study you
cited:"...keeping a preschooler in a day care center for a year
or more increased the likelihood that the child would become disruptive in
class...The effect was slight, and well within the normal range for healthy
children, the researchers found. And as expected, parents' guidance and
their genes had by far the strongest influence on how children behaved."From the 2003 (almost a decade out of date) study you cited:"The study authors noted that their study was not designed to prove a
cause and effect relationship. That is, the study cannot prove whether spending
more time in child care causes children to have more problem behaviors."and"The strongest predictor of how well a child behaves
was a feature of maternal parenting that the researchers described as
sensitivity--how attuned a mother is to a child's wants and needs."and"children whose parents had higher incomes and who
were more highly educated also were more socially competent and less likely to
engage in problem behaviors."Any more distortions you want
I M LDS 2,More respect for out of home moms? Whatever.
Though the funny thing about this decline in stay-at-home motherhood is that
it's the Democrats who are fighting for it. No really, they are, since
they're the ones who oppose the increasing concentration of wealth at the
top. They're the ones who always have to push for the minimum wage
increases. They're the ones who want to push for unions, and for businesses
to provide benefits that help families be able to actually make it on one
@Redshirt"The experts all agree that outsourcing parenting to daycares
results in bad behavior. "The studies show that "outsourcing
parenting to daycares" is more likely to result in bad behavior. Your
statement asserted it without the qualifying phrase which suggested it was a
guarantee."Now, compare that to a stay at home parent who is
with their kids for 16 hours a day."Those kids are in school
once they're 5 years old so most of the time the kids are away about 8
hours a day so your statement only applies for about 1/3 of the years for a
child. "what matters is how you raise your kids."And they might do a very good job. My parents ended up divorcing and my mom
worked after said divorce and my sister and I turned out just fine.
@Rifleman"Lucky is the child who lives in a 2-parent home with both
his birth mother and father, and where his (or her) mother who can stay at home
teaching him to make correct choices while his father works to support their
family financially."So you think it's immoral for women to
work? Or for a father to be the stay-at-home parent?Besides, when I
was in middle and high school my mom worked. Not that it made a difference
anyway. She had a 7:30-3:30 job so we (my sister and I) were gone from the house
almost the entire time she worked during the school year anyway.
To "tallen" so what you are saying is that on an average day you are
gone for 10 hours to commute and work, assuming you sleep for 8 hours a day,
that means that at best you are actively parenting your kids for 6 hours on any
given day. Now, compare that to a stay at home parent who is with their kids
for 16 hours a day.You are saying that you want the same respect and
rewards as a mother who is actively parenting her kids for 16 hours per day
while you only put in 6 hours per day?I am sorry, but unless you are
a single mother who has no choice, you are not doing your kids a service by
sending them off to daycare or having latchkey kids. If money is an issue,
downsize, cut things out of your life. It doesn't matter what
"stuff" you have, what matters is how you raise your kids.
Hey, come on now. If women don't work how do you expect them to afford
their SUV's, smart phone and Paris Hilton sunglasses?
I M LDS 2 writes: "But I have much more respect for women who succeed in a
career AND as mothers!"A latchkey kid is defined as "a child
who returns from school to an empty home because his or her parent or parents
are away at work, or a child who is often left at home with little or no
parental supervision." The day comes when the child grows up and the woman
with the career is left to wonder what could have been.There is more
to this life than measuring success by the amount of stuff a parent has
GZE-No-one is saying that you are only a mother if you are home. You are
taking these comments too far.The truth is stay-at-home moms do not
love their children more, have more dedication or committment than moms who have
to work outside the home, but they are physically THERE for their kids. They are
drained from parenting, but not from work and parenting. Are there kids of
stay-at-home moms who are neglected? Yes. Are there kids of working moms who
thrive? Yes. And there is the whole spectum in the middle. It is
logical that moms who stay at home have more time with their kids and given the
enormous job of parenting that is best when that can take place. You cannot be
great at everything at the same time. We humans are not limitless in our
energy, time and emotional availablity. However, our love and care is limitless
when it comes to our kids. Every woman makes the best decision she can given her
Redshirt:Here's how I desereve the title. In a week, I spend 8
hours a day plus an hour "lunch". That's 9 out of 24 hours that
I'm out of the home, 10 out of 24 if I have an hour commute time (which is
about average). So I am a mother 14 out of 24 hours. Add in the fact that
there are two days a week that I am off, meaning I am a "mother" 24
hours a day for 2 days. Let's say, just for arguments sake that I am
"not a mother" while I'm at work and not a mother while my
children are sleeping (hah. yeah right), I am still caring for my child at least
50 hours a week. I am considered a full time employee at 40 hours a week, so
why not a full time mother at 50? Those hour calculations are actually being
very generous seeing as I get up with my children at night, so I really
shouldn't be throwing those hours out and that even at work, I need to
ensure my children are cared for.
To "I M LDS 2" it isn't a judgmental presumption. It is a fact
that kids that are raised in daycares have more behavior problems than kids that
are raised by their mothers.See "Poor Behavior Is Linked to Time
in Day Care" in the NY TimesSee "Child Care Linked To
Assertive, Noncompliant, and Aggressive Behaviors" at the National Institute
of HealthSee "Study ties day care to some behavior problems"
at MSN.The experts all agree that outsourcing parenting to daycares
results in bad behavior. Not to mention the guilt that many working parents
feel that results in over-indulgence of kids in daycare.To
"GZE" you may not stop being a mother, but you stop being a full time
parent when you are not the primary person to be with your children during the
day when they are home.
Rifleman,It is the judgmental presumption that women who work
outside the home and have a career are "second rate" (or "second
best") mothers that is wrongheaded and infuriating.
You do not stop being a mother because you are away from your children. You do
not stop being a mother when you are at work. You do not stop being a mother
when you are asleep. If my mother-in-law is any example (and I believe she is),
you do not stop being a mother when you are 82 years old, have had a stroke, and
have not have one of your children living in your home for over 30 years. If you want to argue that stay-at-home moms are better, or more
dedicated, or whatever, knock yourselves out. I have known children with
stay-at-home moms who come to school dirty, unfed, and with their homework
undone. I have known mothers who work outside the home who take care of their
children's physical and emotional needs flawlessly. And vice versa. Each
family does what works for them. It is not the place of others to judge.I did not say word one about the content of this article. I simply
found the headline to be flawed. Apparently, the DN agreed with me and changed
Re: I M LDS 2 Provo, UT"But I have much more respect for women who
succeed in a career AND as mothers!"It was LDS President DavidO.
McKay who said “No Other Success Can Compensate for Failure in the
Home”. Lucky is the child who's mother can stay at home and teach
them correct principles when the children are young. It certainly beats
whatever is second best.
To "GZE" sorry, even the Dad who is gone all day at work is not a
"full time" Dad.How can you be a full time Mom if you have
outsourced raising your children? They say that the most important years of a
child's development are the first 5 years of life. If you have paid for
somebody else to rais your kids, do you deserve the title of "Full Time
I was a stay at home mom for 18 years while our kids were young. It was
exceptionally hard work, but I loved it. When our youngest of 5 was in 3rd
grade my husband's work changed and I was needed to work outside the home
to help support our family.Thankfully I now only work part time, but
for a year I worked full time with an half hour commute. Yes, I was a mother
even when I was at work, but I was not THERE for my kids. I came home
emotinally and physically spent. I had very little to give to my family. My
heart was full time, but my actions and availablility were very part-time. I
feel for moms that have that responsibility to work full time - for many or all
of the growing up years of their kids.
@ article headline and riflemanThere are at home fathers that adjust
to taking care of the kids out of necessity in the inconsistently fluxuating job
world. More women have the corporate jobs now, and not enough men (generally
speaking) can support larger families with all to many of the other jobs out
there. I kept that general to not offend and to avoid specifics that can
vary.Basically, taking care of the children is priority one. Still,
there are factors financially that aid in opportunity for children that is part
of taking care of them. Men can nurture as well. Sure I see the stance that
women should be in that role, but society is ever forcing other options. More
women have corporate jobs that pay the higher wages than men right now. That is
a fact. Why? Well that can be debated. Is it the highering process more than
women seeking jobs. Why are more jobs offered to women? That can be debated as
well? Does it go back to equal rights, or are the 1% exploiting women for
favors? What about women avoiding having children or choosing to have more
husbands stay home? All men aren't pigs.
I see they've changed the headline. It no longer references
Thank you deseret news for changing the title.
I respect fulltime, stay at home mothers.But I have much more
respect for women who succeed in a career AND as mothers!
Re: GZE SALT LAKE CITY, UT"So fathers who work outside the home are
not full-time parents?"A careful reading of the article suggests
it is about "Stay-at-home mothers" By definition that would exclude
BOTH fathers and mothers who work outside the home.And no, Fathers
in traditional families don't have more important things to do. They just
have different things to do.
@tallenWOW, what hostility. For your information, the woman that
went to work (our friend, by the way), did have to work. That was not the
point. And also, by the way, my wife did not brag about it, she told her about
it with sorrow, so she would not find out about it from someone else, and they
hugged and cried together.I am sorry that this touched a nerve, so you had
to attack what was said and not take it for what it was worth. I wish we all
made enough to stay at home and teach our children, weather it be "book"
learning, or work learning, but that is not the world we live in.I am just
grateful that I and my wife have been blessed to have her work as a mother at
home with my children.
gze:the article is about stay at home moms. are you reading a different
article? full time? you might put aside your "hurt feelings" and reread
today everything that is written or said offends someone. You choose to be
offended. My suggestions is to "grow up".
WRK: Yet another jab at working mothers. Thanks. I do worry about what my
children THINIK. I also worry about putting food in my childs belly, a roof
over his head, and clothes on his back. Now, if you want to hire my husband to
earn enough to support his family with good upward movement then I will stay
home gladly. Until then, I have to go to work. My guess is that the woman your
wife babysat for was in the same position, thus the tears when your wife bragged
that another child thought she was mom (when honestly, children can only learn
so many words so fast so female caregiver becomes mome. Your wife was not more
valuable to that child than their own mother). Your wife was wrong to brag to
that woman about that. It proves that you two do not understand the world of
having to use two incomes to provide for a family.
@GZEI have a wife that wanted to stay at home and raise my children.
In doing so, she also took on the oportunity to help another Mom raise her
children while that Mom went to "work" (as if my wife did not work).
When my wife told this individual that her child had called my wife
"Mom", that individual cried. It was a sad time for someone. Now,
whether you are upset by the headline or not, I think it is what the children of
these parents THINK that should concern us, and not worry about if a headline is
offensive or not. Just saying...
I forgot that I stop being a mother when I go to work. I guess that means that
I can stop worrying about my baby from 9-5, stop using all my break time to
pump, stop fielding phone calls from my babysitter, and stop using all my sick
leave to care for my baby when he is sick because I'm not a mother anymore?
WRONG!! I agree, that headline is 100% offensive. In fact, the worst thing
about Ann Rosens comments is that people are feeling free to take these little
jabs at working mothers. I've seen comments from stay at home moms that it
would be easier for them to be a working mother implying the same thing this
headline does; that mothers who work stop being mothers while they are at work.
@RiflemanSo fathers who work outside the home are not full-time
parents? We are only to be considered parents during the time our children are
within our lines of sight? Or is it only women who have to be in the presence
of their children 24/7 to be "full-time." Fathers have more important
things to do?And you know what? I was adopted at birth. I never
knew either my birth mother or my birth father and I was still one of the
@GZE: I agree, as the headline and your post excluded fathers.
Re: GZE SALT LAKE CITY, UT"There is not a mother on this planet who is
not a full time mother from the day her child is born until the day she
dies."Sadly your statement is incorrect. Many bio-mothers are
too busy looking for drugs and boyfriends to spend much time worrying about a
child she considers an inconvenience.Lucky is the child who lives in
a 2-parent home with both his birth mother and father, and where his (or her)
mother who can stay at home teaching him to make correct choices while his
father works to support their family financially.
Full Time Mothers? Really?There is not a mother on this planet who
is not a full time mother from the day her child is born until the day she
dies.That is a really offensive headline.