Now for his real opinion - the one not aimed at getting the "GLBT" vote
with election season just months away...
To Hoosier87American Fork, UTOK, three plus years ago, I posted on
here that Obama would turn out to be the worst President in American history -
can we all now finally agree that has come true?--------------------------No. There are several who are worse.
George Walker Bush is, by a long shot, the worst. Jimmy Carter comes next.
Then Harding. Nixon is a mixed case -- great in some ways, terrible in others.
To call President Obama the worst is not supported by historic fact.
I support marriage equality for all US citizens.I will vote for the
Presidential candidate who supports the principles of equality before the law
guaranteed by our Constitution.And it looks more and more like that
is Obama, not Romney.
LValfre,If you feel threatened by my right to vote, then it should
be you leaving the country. That's about 1000 times more logical. It works
the same way as the burden of proof. You are the one not liking things as they
are, if anyone is morally obligated to leave it is the people who won't
follow the law and the constitution our founding fathers ordained.Again, the people who want to take away my right to vote and dictate their own
constitution should be the ones to leave. That argument can withstand scrutiny
from every direction. Denying what is objectively apparent doesn't justify
you more, it only makes you more accountable to the truth being denied.The whole problem with supporting gay marriage relies on denying the design
and function of their own human body and people trying to have a court take my
voting rights away are denying the basic principles of freedom that any
government needs for peace.It's all about denial and rejecting
the truth. The truth isn't hateful or depressing- it's a wonderful
thing. Family is wonderful. Where being slave to homosexual impulses will
produce nothing but misery.
"Analyzing studies of cultures spanning several thousands of years on
several continents, Harvard sociologist Pitirim Sorokin found that virtually all
political revolutions that brought about societal collapse were preceded by a
sexual revolution in which marriage and family were devalued by the
culture's acceptance of homosexuality."WRONG. Please expand
on that and comment with some proof. All great empires and cultures
failed, outside of natural disasters, from economic reasons. They push war too
far for too long and before you know it they're broke and invaded. Think
Rome. Think Germany (both WW's). Think where America's heading. The constant push of war, or spreading democracy (modern day Crusades in
my opinion), will collapse a society. Homosexuality? It's been happening
since the beginning of time and is NO threat.If you feel threatened
by gay marriage then when its legalized ... leave this country.
Re: no fit in SG St.George, Utah"What exactly will you anti-gay
marriage folks do when gay marriage becomes the law of the land?"We will remark that it is a sign of the times foretold by the prophets of old.
They also foretold of the consequences and of the cleansing that will occur
Re: George Bronx, NY"thank you for finally getting of the fence
President Obama, better late then never."What took him so long
to come to this stupendous decision? Perhaps he has been afraid to make his
opinion on the subject known for one reason or another. Not the mark of a
spring street,First, you should know that the constitution does not
actually authorize SCOTUS to use the judicial review doctrine. They have been
illegally twisting the constitution since Marbury v Madison. And if you think
I'm alone in thinking that, you might want to take a history course from
day one until now. Thomas Jefferson called it an oligarchy and the man hit it
square on.Second, I have MORE than adequately explained over and
over on this site how no such right is in the constitution and I have NEVER...
no, not even one single time been given an answer as to how gay marriage could
still be found to be a right.Read on the other "Obama
evolves" article going right now and you'll find my argument. The only
plausible argument is "equal protection of the laws" which I have more
than refuted. The only argument left for gay marriage is to ignore the law as it
stands, ignore human nature, and reject all morality in favor of "I can do
whatever I want and I'm justified".I have news for you. It
isn't justified. It isn't even biologically justifiable. It's
Marriage reflects the natural moral and social law evidenced the world over. As
the late British social anthropologist Joseph Daniel Unwin noted in his study of
world civilizations, any society that devalued the nuclear family soon lost what
he called "expansive energy," which might best be summarized as
society's will to make things better for the next generation. In fact, no
society that has loosened sexual morality outside of man-woman marriage has
survived. Analyzing studies of cultures spanning several thousands
of years on several continents, Harvard sociologist Pitirim Sorokin found that
virtually all political revolutions that brought about societal collapse were
preceded by a sexual revolution in which marriage and family were devalued by
the culture's acceptance of homosexuality.When marriage loses
its unique status, women and children most frequently are the direct victims.
Giving same-sex relationships or out-of-wedlock heterosexual couples the same
special status and benefits as the marital bond would not be the expansion of a
right but the destruction of a principle.
What exactly will you anti-gay marriage folks do when gay marriage becomes the
law of the land? Should you have neighbors and fellow employees who fits
this description, how will you treat them?How will you handle this when
your child brings a friend home who is a child of gay, legally married
parents?Can you politely greet this family when they sit next to you in
the pew at your Church?Perhaps it is wise to think about this, so you can
stay calm, and deal with this in a fine, charitable, Christian manner.
@voice of reasonwe are constitutional democracy which means you do
have the right to vote but if your vote violates the constitutional protections
then it will not stand. As has also been previously pointed out to you we have
many rights not explicitly written into the constitution. The courts acting
within their power of review have repeatedly know found that your desire to vote
away gay marriage does indeed violate the 14th amendment.
Despite what a President may finally decide is politically expedient, what
congress may legislate or what courts may rule. Despite what some or even a
majority may want to call it, marriage always has been, is, and always will be:
The union of a man and a woman as husband and wife. While the legal
confines can be changed and called marriage under the law, marriage will only
ever be between a husband and wife.Wife: A woman married to a manHusband: A man married to a woman
isrred,Treated equally?We are equal. We equally own our
government and can equally vote. We both have just as much of a say as the next
person. The moment the LGBT community took this to the courts, they suggested
that my vote became second-class and that I would be the one with less rights
while you enjoyed a government of your own dictation.The United
States government is not a "democratic party dictatorship". Until you
recognize my right to vote, whether you agree with the outcome or not- then you
aren't arguing for equality.---And before anyone
suggests that I'm voting to take away a right, point to marriage in the
constitution. It aint there. And equal protection OF THE LAWS means existing
laws apply to all. As long as a gay-marriage ban applies to all citizens,
equality before the law is preserved.State recognition isn't a
human right, otherwise this country would have to endorse every LDS practice as
moral- state recognized baptisms for the dead and so on.You take
away equal votes and this country will fall apart and the people will not
Neither Presidential candidate can be trusted. Neither has really "changed
his mind" about anything because changing one's mind requires actually
having a position to change from. Both seem to have no idea what it means to
believe in principles and will say whatever expediency demands. One
claimed he supported traditional marriage, refused to take a definite position
but kept "evolving," weaseled out of making a clear commitment to either
marriage or a radical redefinition of society's basic institution, and is
now caving in to political correctness. What a perfect time for polygamy
advocates to start pressuring him.The other hides his money around
the world, can't decide what protection an unborn human being is entitled
to, and marched in favor of the draft while neither he nor his kids served in
the military. The days are gone when multiple Presidential
candidates were qualified, capable, and ethical. In recent elections, we've
been stuck deciding who is less incompetent, self-serving, and unprincipled.
Continued negative campaigning will be no surprise; it's inevitable when
candidates have little to offer and have to hope their opponent's faults
scare the voters more than their own.
@Liberal Ted "It is not right to re-define the definition of marriage
from One man and One woman." why not the definition of being between one man
and one women is e definition only in the US and one that only dates back about
a decade? why is it all of a sudden beyond reproach?
@Stephen Kent Ehatcivil rights are never a "states issue."
People do not need to get your permission to not be treated as second class
liberal ted: " Socialism has failed in every society, "Please tell that to Norway, Sweden, France, Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands,
Germany, etc.All are doing as well as could be expected with a
recession. France just barely elected another socialist president!
@Stephen Kent EhatIncidentally Obama himself said it's a state issue
which is something he previously said. The only thing changed is... well
probably not even his position on gay marriage, just that he's come out of
the closet on it.@Go Utes"An unsurprising move from this
wishy washy president. "Hah. That's funny because
you're probably a Romney supporter.
You don't change your stated view on something this big 6 months before an
election unless you think you'll benefit from it. Obuma must think
he's going to gain something from this or he wouldn't have done it
now. This shows he'll support whatever to get re-elected. This should not
be a shock to any of us.
The smart political move would have been to wait until after the election. I
salute the President for taking such a courageous stand.
Dr King said "the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends towards
justice. It bends towards justice, but here is the thing: it does not bend on
its own. It bends because each of us in our own ways put our hand on that arc
and we bend it in the direction of justice...." thank you for offering your
hand to move our country towards a more just society Mr President.
"Polling suggests the nation is evenly divided on the issue"? Hardly. As
another news item today points out, North Carolina is the latest state to pass a
marriage amendment supporting traditional marriage making the total 19. Several
others are in the works. In nearly every case where the issue is put to a
popular vote, marriage amendments or traditional marriage laws win (yes, even in
California--twice!). Not exactly what I would call evenly divided.
I thought that the presidents children are off limits. Yet he seems to bring
them into the political arena at every chance he can get. Example BP oil spill,
Romney's kids compared to his, the current issues with the LGBT
community.So does this mean his kids are no longer off limits?
Seems foolish to sacrifice your children for political gain.This is
of course a desperate attempt to fire up his base that has walked away. The fact
remains that people do not have jobs, and are hurting finacially. Hope and
change has finally come full circle to the hype and fundamental change that was
always the focus. Socialism has failed in every society, and has failed
obama.It is not right to re-define the definition of marriage from
One man and One woman to any human being that loves each other. That is not
marriage. Never has and never will be. It is not the same, it is different. Call
it civil union and attach the rights that others enjoy. But, it can never be
marriage. This is a federal issue, that he has pushed back onto the states.
Man of principle? Somehow I get the feeling that if the national polls had not
shown a slight majority of Americans in support of gay marriage, Obama would
still be "undecided" on the issue and his position would need to
continue to "evolve" until the polls gave him a more clear indication of
which way the wind is blowing. An unsurprising move from this wishy
washy president. I will give him credit, however, on ordering the Osama raid.
That took guts.
Is this what you call a "flip flop?"
Martin Luther King once said "There is little hope for us until we become
toughminded enough to break loose from the shackles of prejudice, half-truths,
and downright ignorance." Today our president made a stride in the right
direction hopefully all people of good conscious will commit to doing the same.
This does cause a wrinkle for me.... no yet sure where I stand on this. I do
understand the whole "evolving" comment.... just why must it be called
"marriage". I just guess the term marriage is evolving like the terms
honesty and commitment have evolved. If Romney just weren't
running around telling whoppers (and yes, I do hold him to a higher standard
than others, just as I expect more out of any LDS elected official), I might be
able to jump to that side easily. But he continues to do so.... and makes it
really hard for me to support him.
Talk about having guts, standing up for what's right, as opposed to what
will win you votes.Of the states up for grabs in November, many have
passed amendments similar to North Carolina's, while only Iowa and New
Hampshire have legalized gay marriage.In a move that could really
damage his re-election changes, good to see one of the candidates in this
election stand up for what they think is right, not what their handlers are
telling them will appease voters.And to the flip-flopping charge,
just inaccurate. The President approved of Civil Unions in 2008, just
wasn't sure about going all the way to marriage. Not near the same as
being completely for the right to choose, and then completely against it when
you're looking for conservative votes as Mitt has done.
@alt134you are to kind i would have included reagan, Bush and Bish junior
in that list since all three drove our economy into the ditch when they where in
office. Apparently adding jobs expanding healthcare and ending two wars is a bad
thing in the modern conservative movement.
First - Nice political move Mr. President. Couldn't make up your mind in
the first 3 years and now is the time to make this speech. NICE!!! As for
(mcbillay and others) who posted, "Finally a President who doesn't see
me as a 2nd Class citizen" etc. Please, yes there are some who think being
gay is not right. HOWEVER!!!!! Nobody is or ever has called or referred to a
gay person as a 2nd class citizen. You cannot say it because it is not true.
People do not agree with your actions...YES! The do not refer to you as a 2nd
class citizen. If you want to be gay, then go be gay, be the best gay person
you can be. But, just like many black people who play the race card. Do not
think you are being taken advantage of, you're not!! Be black, be gay, be
whatever. I will remain to be white, be straight and do my best to be the best
person I can be. Simple as that, if you are black or gay or whatever, I will
still hold the door for you. Quit looking for the negative though.
Kishkumen are you for real? Ended the recession? More jobs every month? You
better go check the facts. I believe this one issue will be the
most detrimental issue to society. I've heard that sentiment scoffed at but
I've heard of some general authority predicting that this would divide our
country more than anything else. This announcement gives me a pit in my stomach
as I see that prediction coming true. I have officially lost
another big chunk of respect for Obama. He is facilitating the destruction of
our nation. Morals gone to the dogs and the animal kingdom in general. So sad.
Mr. Obama's change in position on same-sex marriage did not create one
job.Stating his "personal" opinion does not affect one piece
of pending legislation anywhere.It still happens to be the fact that
President Obama said, "If everyone is family, then no one is family." --
Barack Obama, Dreams from My Father, p. 347.The following still
happen to be fact:Same-sex marriage is recognized in seven states,
in D.C., and in only 2 of 564 U.S. Indian tribes.Same-sex unions
equivalent to marriage are recognized in nine states.Same-sex union
registry and specific, limited benefits are provided in three states.Same-sex marriage is expressly prohibited by state constitutional amendments
in thirty states.Same-sex civil unions equivalent to marriage are
prohibited by state constitutional amendment in nineteen states.Same-sex marriage is denied by statute or appellate court decision in
forty-one states.In the 31 states in which same-sex marriage has
been on the ballot, the people have decisively rejected same-sex marriage.In the 30 state marriage amendments on ballots, the combined total vote
rejecting same-sex marriage is over 63%.It's a state issue.
Gee how predictable. Just before the election and just in time to try and rally
his far left zombies. This man has no principles - only a rigid ideology and a
willingness to do anything for votes. This isn't going to play well with
independent voters which should expand Romney's aleady 10 point lead among
thank you for finally getting of the fence President Obama, better late then
@anyone saying the words flip-flopper. You do know what
flip-flopping is right? It's when you take a position, reverse it (the
flip), and then go back to the original version (the flop). So a lot of things
called flip-flopping are not that such as this change on gay marriage or
Romney's change on mandates. If it's only one change, it's only a
flip.@Hoosier87"I posted on here that Obama would turn out
to be the worst President in American history - can we all now finally agree
that has come true?"Buchanan and Hoover were way way worse.
Obama's gained jobs over 24 consecutive months, gotten us out of the Iraq
war, passed a healthcare expansion that will provide access to millions of
people. Besides, this gay marriage thing is a good thing. @Al"no to Gitmo then yes"He didn't say yes. Congress
just blocked him so he didn't really have a choice. Again, flip-flopping
means returning to the original position after flipping.
Prepare to see a lot more 'evolution' once Nov 6 is past if he wins.
It's not just Obama whose views are evolving on this issue. It's the
entire nation. In 1996, 27% of Americans supported same sex marriage and 65%
opposed. Today, over half the country supports same sex marriage. It's an
idea that all of you who oppose it will have to get used to. You're going
to be on the wrong side of history. Your children and grandchildren will be
unable to comprehend how you could ever so vehemently oppose something so normal
and fair to them.
@ LindonMan: "... the question is whether or not it is able to be legally
upheld under the Constitution."If what is able to be legally
upheld under the Constitution? His opinion?
I wonder what else President Obama will 'evolve' on this election
Obama; says no to rendition then says yes, no to Gitmo then yes, no to the
Patriot Act then yes, no to gay marriage and now...Let meet this
right, President Obama accuses Mitt Romney of flip-flopping? I guess that
accusation won't stick anymore.
I'm continually impressed with our president's bravery and
accomplishments. He got us out of the recession a few months after he became
our president. We are now gaining jobs each month rather than losing them as
was the case at the end of President Bush's term. His leadership helped us
catch Bin Laden. He is ending the war in Iraq. And now, he is pushing for
complete equality for all U.S. citizens. I liked President Bush too, but
President Obama is amazing.
Now that we have the President's declaration supporting fairness and
Marriage Equality for gays and lesbians, I want to hear Candidate Romney justify
the five points of the National Organization for Marriage Pledge that he was so
quick to sign during the Republican Primaries.Especially the requirement
that he only appoint anti-gay Judges to the Federal Bench and Supreme Court, and
an anti-gay candidate to the position of U. S. Attorney General.
As to the flip-flopping issue, please note that democrats weren't the ones
calling Romney out on his abortion issue, etc. Democrats full-heartedly believe
that he has become anti-choice on abortion, and that's precisely why they
wouldn't ever vote for him. Our worry isn't that he won't stop
pandering and 'evolving' more to the right to please party bosses,
it's precisely that he will continue to trend right. A main
concern with Romney is that he seems to have complete amnesia when it comes to
history. He is now claiming credit for the recovery of the auto industry, even
though it recovered through exactly the opposite course of action from the one
Obama is quoted as saying that it is important for him "personally" that
gay marriage be allowed. This may be a personal desire of his, but the question
is whether or not it is able to be legally upheld under the Constitution.
It's a great day to finally have a sitting President that believes that I
deserve to be treated equally under the law in this country! Obama 2012!
OK, three plus years ago, I posted on here that Obama would turn out to be the
worst President in American history - can we all now finally agree that has come
true?Is there any doubt?For Heaven's sake - a
convict serving time in a Texas prison got nearly 40% of the vote in the West
Virginia Primary last night because DEMOCRATS in that state can't stand
Obama.Now he feels the need to support gay marriage - a proposition
that was voted down in North Carolina just last night. A "swing" state
that Obama needs to win for re-election. I challenge anyone - tell
me why he's not the worst President EVER!
It's about time. We have allowed our Gay brothers and sisters to be treated
as second class citizens for too long.It's way passed time to
treat our gay and lesbian neighbors as equally as we treat our straight
Just read about this on another news source.Progress, it comes in
More the reason to get this guy out of office. Vote for Romney!
Wow thought he wouldn't do it. Obama has secured my vote.
As we head into the final stages of the election, hopefully we will begin to see
more clear distinctions between the candidates which will help everyone have a
more informed vote. I do respect a person for taking a stance on a topic rather
than skirting the issue. We now know what direction Pres. Obama will take on
this topic. I would like to have a better idea of what he sees for the fiture
direction of the US: a more socialistic society or one more of states rights and