Quantcast
Opinion

My view: Liberals, conservatives need each other

Comments

Return To Article
  • Furry1993 Clearfield, UT
    May 15, 2012 9:35 a.m.

    To Brer Rabbit
    7:42 p.m. 5/11

    I agree that the problem the country faces comes from the fact that the political parties do not work together. I disagree that the President is "likely" the cause. I call your attention to the numerous quotes from Republican politicians who have said that they will do whatever is necessary to ensure that the President's policies fail (and -- my comjment -- to heck with the country in the process). Under the GWBush administration, the Democrats cooperated with the Republicans and some really lousy legislation was enacted -- legislation that put the country's economy right down the toilet. During President Obama's administration, the Republicans have acted lock-step to block the President's policies, regardless how beneficial they might be. I would suggest that the blame be put where it belongs (and that is not "likely" the President).

  • Brer Rabbit Spanish Fork, UT
    May 11, 2012 7:42 p.m.

    I generally believe that divided government is best because if the Senate and House are of different parties one can investigate and bring to light the malfeasance of those in government positions. We have seen what happens when the Administration, Senate and House are of the same party, they can get away with almost anything

    The problem we have now is that each political party, one in the Senate and the other in the House, they are able to avoid responsibility for running the government and blame issues such as debt control on the other party. This is likely due to poor leadership by the president. In other words there is no adult to manage the children.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    May 11, 2012 10:58 a.m.

    Political parties are evil and all they do is create divison.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    May 10, 2012 10:49 p.m.

    Why is the Donkey (the Democrats symbol) blue in the graphic? It does not make sense.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    May 10, 2012 4:04 p.m.

    conservatives do not need liberals and neither does America - liberals are the very definition of what is wrong with the country today.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    May 10, 2012 3:33 p.m.

    People think that "absolutes" are not absolute. People think that one person should have the right to decide on an abortion, when three lives are at stake, the Father, the Mother and, the unborn infant. Agreeing that one person should decide the fate of three lives is certainly not logical.

    Many "political" issues are considered only from the viewpoint of one person. The "left" tells us that unless we are forced to help the "poor", that we are an "unchristian" nation. Christ told us to "render unto Ceasar". Who is unchristian, the "left" or Christ?

    Political expediency has little to do with what is "right" or "wrong". Thinking people look far beyound the polls and ask themselves what would happen if everyone had that attitude.

    What would happen if everyone lived same-sex marriage? What would happen to society? How long would it take before the entire human race was extinct?

    What would happen if everyone believed that some "rich guy" would pay their way through life? How long would it take before the "rich guy" took his money to another country?

    If a principle is valid, it must be valid 100% of the time.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    May 10, 2012 12:16 p.m.

    BUT --

    This requires COMPROMISE.

    And currently, the ultra-Conservatives who have high-jacked the Repulican Party are the most stiff-necked and bull-headed group I have ever witnessed. They flay-out REFUSE to compromise on anything....
    Even if it takes down the entire country!

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    May 9, 2012 11:52 p.m.

    Good legislation should be passed regardless of who proposes it.

  • Reasonable Emotion Springville, UT
    May 9, 2012 6:29 p.m.

    Great article!

  • DVD Taylorsville, 00
    May 9, 2012 1:18 p.m.

    So, in a nation of 320 million people, we aren't all going to toe the same beliefs in all things. If there is no ground to give, and no compromise possible, then how can a democracy be maintained?

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    May 9, 2012 12:35 p.m.

    I have to wonder if procuradorfiscal is just a person acting as a political satirist. Can one really answer like that and not be?

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    May 9, 2012 11:52 a.m.

    "It should have been evident to clear-eyed observers that the Republican Party is becoming less and less like a traditional political party in a representative democracy and becoming more like an apocalyptic cult, or one of the intensely ideological authoritarian parties of 20th century Europe.

    The only thing that can keep the Senate functioning is collegiality and good faith. During periods of political consensus, for instance, the World War II and early post-war eras, the Senate was a “high functioning” institution: filibusters were rare and the body was legislatively productive. Now, one can no more picture the current Senate producing the original Medicare Act than the old Supreme Soviet having legislated the Bill of Rights.

    Far from being a rarity, virtually every bill, every nominee for Senate confirmation and every routine procedural motion is now subject to a Republican filibuster. It is no wonder that Washington is gridlocked: legislating has now become war minus the shooting... As Hannah Arendt observed, a disciplined minority of totalitarians can use the instruments of democratic government to undermine democracy itself."

    (Mike Lofgren, served for 30 yrs as a GOP staffer retired in 2011; "Good-bye To All That")

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    May 9, 2012 7:16 a.m.

    We need legislators, Republicans and Democrats, who can work together
    Third try
    "We have been studying Washington politics and Congress for more than 40 years, and never have we seen them this dysfunctional. In our past writings, we have criticized both parties when we believed it was warranted. Today, however, we have no choice but to acknowledge that the core of the problem lies with the Republican Party.

    The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition."

    Norm Ornstein, American Enterprise Institute; Thomas Mann Brookings Institute
    The Washington Post

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    May 9, 2012 7:03 a.m.

    @Spring Street
    Your statement is funny because its true. Anytime everyone is saying all evil comes from left/right I truly question their ability to discern facts. Maybe they just don't have enough of them (facts). Total partisan people remind of children that borrowed their parents political ideas and never evaluated them.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    May 9, 2012 6:41 a.m.

    The principle that most people have forgotten is that in America, the people never demand that the government do anything that is not authorized. In America, the people should have sufficient respect for each other that they would never demand that a neighbor do something that they can do for themselves. In America, the people should have sufficient understanding of the Constitution that they know that THEY, THEMSELVES, are the driving force behind freedom, behind liberty, and behind mercy.

    Somewhere, in my lifetime, that has changed.

    Citizens now demand that the government do everything for them. They don't seem to realize that demanding that the government provide something is the same as demanding that their next door neighbor provide that "something".

    Compromise, when it means abandoning the Constitution in order to "get" something, is the fast-path to destruction.

    We can debate how AUTHORIZED duties are performed and funded, but we must never allow the government to overstep its authority - no matter what the personal benefit might be.

    Instead of asking your neighbor for help ("government programs"), why not ask your neighbor how you can help him?

    America's greatness is her people, not her government.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    May 9, 2012 2:10 a.m.

    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts -Bertrand Russell

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    May 8, 2012 11:08 p.m.

    Re: "on and on we go with the same worthless partisan snipping [sic] that got us into this mess . . . ."

    It's not the "snipping" that got us into this mess, rather, it's reaching across the aisle to compromise with liberals.

    A bitterly polarized and dysfunctional Congress would be a welcome breath of fresh air. EVERY time Congress proposes a "solution," Americans suffer.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    May 8, 2012 10:51 p.m.

    2nd try

    "We have been studying Washington politics and Congress for more than 40 years, and never have we seen them this dysfunctional. In our past writings, we have criticized both parties when we believed it was warranted. Today, however, we have no choice but to acknowledge that the core of the problem lies with the Republican Party.

    The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition."

    Norm Ornstein, American Enterprise Institute; Thomas Mann Brookings Institute
    The Washington Post

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    May 8, 2012 10:03 p.m.

    @Mike Richards

    Thank you for taking the time to comment.

    I too have had relatives that lived near Schofield, working cattle and the mines.

    I have not had family experience or otherwise where people expected wages for little or no work.

    As far as the mines go, people I know were thankful for the work and thankful someone was at least trying to look out for their safety.

    You seem kind of subdued.

    Hope all is ok.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    May 8, 2012 9:48 p.m.

    So many commentors here who claim to revere the Constitution are forgetting that the Constitution relies on one fundamental assumption: That the people involved in government and the voters who elect them will use common sense and at least some wisdom.

    That's pretty rare these days.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 8, 2012 7:44 p.m.

    When every Republican presidential candidate says that they would reject a deal that was 10 parts spending cuts to 1 part tax increases you know that there is no one on the other side with whom to negotiate anything.

    Bush was not popular with Democrats (you noticed?), but he got some Democratic support for all of his signature proposals. Compare that to the total obstruction the Republicans have offered Obama, and you will see where the problem is.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    May 8, 2012 6:17 p.m.

    re: There You Go Again,

    Yes, there have been a lot of tragedies. A lot of people were hurt by greed, both on the part of the owners and on the part of the workers. Much of my family worked in the coal mines near price. They lived the experience.

    There was a time when unions made a difference for good. There was a time when the individual had almost no voice.

    Now, the opposite has occurred in many industries. People demand wages for little or no work. Some think that sitting on a stool is the "duty" that pays their wages. OSHA has made it almost impossible for a person to get hurt on the job. That's a good thing. What's not good, is that too many people think that they are entitled to a good wage regardless of the health of their company, regardless of their productivity. That attitude destroyed two auto makers. That attitude has destroyed countless businesses, businesses that now operate offshore.

    Honest people can compromise. Greedy people don't care about being honest - whether they are the workers or whether they are the owners.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    May 8, 2012 5:58 p.m.

    Actually, part of the problem is that we don't even refer to the political poles as republicans and democrats anymore...just liberal and conservative. I'd love to be a liberal republican. There's just no room in the tent anymore.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    May 8, 2012 4:20 p.m.

    @robert

    consider yourself painted. next time you get frustrated with how our country is run take a long look in the mirror.

  • Robert Rexburg, ID
    May 8, 2012 3:11 p.m.

    I wouldn't oppose liberals if they weren't wrong on so many things. If that's being partisan, paint me red.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    May 8, 2012 2:49 p.m.

    on and on we go with the same worthless partisan snipping that got us into this mess and that the article writer talks about the need to eliminate. You want to know why we are where we are? look in the mirror and take some personal accountability for your partisan bickering.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    May 8, 2012 2:22 p.m.

    atl134:

    You keep insisting that Obama made a genuine attempt to cut spending in exchange for some modest tax increases and that the Republicans rejected this "honest attempt" to reach some kind of middle ground.

    Hogwash! What Obama and the Democrats really offered was another empty promise to cut spending sometime in the future in exchange for immediate tax increases. The tax increases would impact taxpayers immediately and would be permanent. The spending cuts (which were not real cuts at all, but just reductions in projected increases) would never materialize. The promise would not be kept and government spending would continue to spin out of control.

    And of course, the Republicans are the bad guys for rejecting this "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" offer.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 8, 2012 1:47 p.m.

    @procuradorfiscal

    "When liberals begin to question some of the most insensate of their sacred canons . . . then, we'll talk."

    Obama offered to cut from entitlements, to the chagrin of his party, in exchange for Republicans having to give up some ground on the raising taxes issue. So I'd say we've already made those sorts of overtures and have been turned down. That's why we got a 2 trillion dollar debt deal instead of 4 trillion.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    May 8, 2012 1:37 p.m.

    @procuradorfiscal

    "When liberals begin to question some of the most insensate of their sacred canons . . . then, we'll talk."
    Do many conservatives question some of the most insensate of *their* sacred canons? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

    "[Liberals] just doggedly, disingenuously, and unashamedly refer to their deranged, liberal/socialist aberrations as 'solutions'." "[Liberals need to] stop being the source of all the political ills that haunt our Nation and have come to threaten its very existence."
    Proc, your extremist-biased 'groupthink' is showing . . .
    It is closed-minded vitriol like this (and the extreme left is guilty of it, too), more than anything else, that is the reason that Washington DC is a broken, disfunctional mess.

    "[Liberals think] that conservatives are the Mephistophelian miscreants"
    The far-left extremists might hold this view, but they are the fringe minority among liberals, and I certainly don't feel this way. I think we need *more* open-minded moderate conservatives (but I don't think you want to hear that). I also think we need more open-minded moderate liberals (and I KNOW you don't want to hear *that*).

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    May 8, 2012 1:00 p.m.

    They need each other in order to dupe the american people into doing nothing while they destroy the constiution. That's what they need from each other. They need to keep the sheeple fighint against each other on fake issues while they do their damage.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    May 8, 2012 12:46 p.m.

    Re: "@procuradorfiscal -- You really need to get over the "liberals are the source of al evil" type of thinking."

    You bet I will! The very moment they stop being the source of all the political ills that haunt our Nation and have come to threaten its very existence.

    You can count on it.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    May 8, 2012 12:37 p.m.

    @Mike Richards

    2:07 AM?

    You old night owl.

    Let's see, where were we?

    Ah yes...

    The garment industry?

    Check out "The Triangle Fire" documentary.

    It might provide some perspective.

    Who knows?

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    May 8, 2012 12:16 p.m.

    Re: "@procuradorfiscal - Thanks for exemplifying the problem, rather than the solution."

    Any time.

    Right back at 'ya for verifying that "seeking solutions" is just liberal newspeak for "being willing to surrender to liberals" and that liberals really believe they can shame conservatives into surrender, if they just doggedly, disingenuously, and unashamedly refer to their deranged, liberal/socialist aberrations as "solutions."

    When liberals begin to question some of the most insensate of their sacred canons -- that nothing in America works correctly, that the entire Nation is crying for liberal "solutions," and that conservatives are the Mephistophelian miscreants denying them those "solutions" -- then, we'll talk.

  • George Bronx, NY
    May 8, 2012 11:53 a.m.

    thank you to all the posters that show tribalism is alive and well here at the DN. You want to fix our broken system start by taking a closer look at your own unwillingness to engage in a civil discussion with the end game being a viable solution for everyone not just those you want to win.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    May 8, 2012 10:33 a.m.

    This is an extremely well-written and insightful article, clearly much more so than some here (*cough*, procuradorfiscal, *cough*) are comfortable with. I also wholeheartedly agree with Mike Richards' post (I hope that Mike, nor anyone else, dies of shock due to my agreement with his post; in all honesty, I have a great deal of respect for Mike's consistency and vigor in articulating and defending his convictions, even though I strongly disagree with some of them).

    I have long believed that healthy discussion and debate of public policy alternatives, along with the willingness to "think win-win", to "seek first to understand, then to be understood", and to "synergize" (Stephen R. Covey's 4th, 5th, & 6th "Habits"), will ultimately lead to the best outcomes for our communities and our nation.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    May 8, 2012 10:24 a.m.

    The problem is both ends of the spectrum and the extreme behavior of them. Especially the "my way or the highway" approach. On the left you have Soros and his money pulling the strings. On the right you have the Tea Party pulling the strings. Guys like Hatch, who are conservative but cross the aisle on occasion to make good legislation get vilified by the far right for even dealing with Ted Kennedy or others. Even when the legislation benefits all (the original CHIP as an example). There are not any Left leaning senators that try to work the middle anymore with the possible exception of Lieberman on occasion. They are all scared of Soros.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    May 8, 2012 9:31 a.m.

    @procuradorfiscal -- You really need to get over the "liberals are the source of al evil" type of thinking. I am relatively liberal, and I assure you, I have no interest in buying votes for anybody or being mean spirited or even prancing for that matter. Without liberals we would still have slavery. Without liberals women would not be able to vote or have property rights. Frankly, without liberals we'd be a 3rd world country. I agree with this article, though, that without conservatives pulling back a little, change could come too fast or be too expansive. Both ways of thinking are beneficial to society, but it's hard to see the other point of view sometimes.

  • Alex Salt Lake City, UT
    May 8, 2012 9:22 a.m.

    @procuradorfiscal - Thanks for exemplifying the problem, rather than the solution.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    May 8, 2012 9:02 a.m.

    Re: "Solutions are only possible, though, if liberals and conservatives shed the tribalism . . . ."

    That's liberal tribalism talking. And use of the term "solutuions," as liberal newspeak for "surrender."

    We don't need more compromised, liberal solutions. Genuine solutions are already in place and were working quite well for centuries, until liberals started offering their "solutuions."

    What we really need are politicians with the moxie and backbone to stand up to liberals, smoke them out of their carefully constructed rhetorical fortresses, and point out that prancing liberal "solutions" are, in fact, unclad -- they solve nothing.

    Further, liberal "investments" invest in nothing beyond liberal vote-buying; liberal "conservation" destroys; liberal "compassion" is cynical, mean-spririted, and destructive of the human spirit; liberal "logic" is anything but; liberal "morality" is the worst form of libertine immorality; and liberal notions of "justice" and "fairness" are based on the very injustices sought to be prevented by the wise framers of our Constitution and Nation.

    Happily, liberals must be running scared for them to suggest any use whatever for conservatives.

  • On the other hand Spanish Fork, UT
    May 8, 2012 8:52 a.m.

    We have a political system that favors binary choices. It's almost guaranteed that two polarized factions will emerge from such a system, and that the candidates they select will hold non-centrist beliefs. It's a recipe for artificial conflict, built right into our electoral process.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    May 8, 2012 8:30 a.m.

    When two "opposites" are actually largely the same then perhaps we don't need either of them or we need a third choice.

  • Noodlekaboodle Salt Lake City, UT
    May 8, 2012 8:29 a.m.

    @Mike Richards
    You missed the point. The article was to say that neither side should be able to control an entire situation. Not liberals, and not conservatives. You examples are of times when this didn't happen. Your morality bit is getting old as well, No one (ok almost no one) wants to "destroy society" just because someone disagrees with you solutions doesn't make them an immoral person. Hate to break it to you Mike, your no better than the rest of us.

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    May 8, 2012 7:51 a.m.

    I have always maintained that the country needs liberals to press for change when needed, and conservatives, to prevent liberals from giving away the store.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    May 8, 2012 7:03 a.m.

    Yes, this is why Limbaugh threw the elections away. He doe not want to lose his audience.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    May 8, 2012 2:07 a.m.

    Strong opinions that are centered on priciples are good. Strong opinions that are centered on self-serving selfishness are bad.

    If labor demands high wages, low hours, and limited duties regardless of the fact that high wages, low hours and limited duties would force the business to go offshore, those demands are based on selfishness.

    If management demands more productivity at the same pay scale, no overtime, dangerous work conditions, those demands are also based on selfishness.

    When labor and management sit down together and formulate ideas that allow the business to be profitable AND allow the workers to be fairly paid for the duties performed, then that business has a chance to survive.

    Look at the "garment" industry. It is gone. Look at the "demands" that drove that industry offshore.

    Some "principles" are not negotiable. Morality is not negotiable. Honesty is not negotiable. Integrity is not negotiable. Those who would destroy those principles because of selfish behavior should understand that they are destroying the foundation of society. Destroying society is not negotiable.