If you want to be seen "in full public view",(Alison Moore Smith's
blog), then what's the problem?If "they" will
"finally see what we're really like", what's prevented this in
the past?I grew up LDS in southern California. There was never any
hiding our fish-bowl lives. Every student on my campus knew I was running for
student gov't as a Mormon candidate. I flaunted it at every opportunity,
abstained from every drug/sex/obscenity-laced party I was invited to, and still
won my election in the 1968 culture. I got the Doors to perform at our
high-school (not my brightest acheivement), remained popular to my graduating
day, and was a virgin at my wedding four years later.I passed out
Books of Mormon, was castigated by my friends when I invited them to church, and
could have cared less about all the whiny issues presented in this article.
There never has been and is not now a "mystique" about Mormons. Let me help Alison and the fretters quoted here: They see LDS lives in
full view. It's the doctrines, not the life-style, that is the
Dear Rachel Zoll wrote an interesting article here, which my peers in several
different vocational fields are reviewing. Each are discussing the pros and
cons of voting for Gov. Romney on many levels, but for their special
interests.1- The journalistic: Was it thoroughly understandable?
Were terms, statements and history defined here for the uninformed? Was the
context constant with the topic? Was the thrust of the article summarized at
its close? Are all statements accurate and defensible?2- The
political: Was it on-point with current campaign statements, rhetoric, and
issues? Did it veer off-course into the speculative, with an ulterior motive?
Will the Governor follow his political past, his religious past or both, with
respect to policy reversals in the future?3- The religious:
a-"Where's the beef?" Over what specifically is all the angst
expressed by the quoted LDS leaders and spokespersons? b-Will Romney be
honest or equivocate with respect to his personal beliefs? c-We
didn't thoroughly vett Pres. Obama on religion issues. We won't make
the same mistake. Is it too much to ask for total transparency of
the person we trust with their hand on the...?
Can we get back to a substantive dialogue ON TOPIC here?1- Why does
Prof. Millet say the Church "is not ready for the onslaught", yet the
author posits that the Church has been used to it for the past 2 centuries?2- What is it specifically that the Church is "gearing up to
defend"? I thought 1890 and 1978 settled the controversies? Please
enlighten this comment.3- How exactly would you prefer your
doctrinal reversals to be described by a non-LDS public?4- Why are
churches, politicians or institutions miffed by the moniker "Flip Flop",
when the flips are their choice, documented public record, and they should be
standing by them?Thank you for only replying with facts.
America gave up on marriage and family and religion 50 years ago; now today
ironically, our country is passionate about a different kind of marriage (same
sex) which is becoming a new religion. Every attorney (including Joe Biden whom
I used to admire) will some day have to decide what is more important: the Bible
or the Constitution. And every scientist will have to decide what is more
important: science or my family. Decide between one or the other. A
Christian can not be popular. I used to think Mr. Biden was a great Catholic,
he is proving me wrong----law and the constitution and being popular is his
religion. I voted for Mr. Obama and think he is bright and nice and moral and I
think his family is adorable, and yes the stock market has doubled in the last 3
years----he has had a great term in my view----yet his party is more and more
anti-family and anti-Bible and anti-religion.
Mormons love liberty and the Constitution. Having a "Mormon" in the
whitehouse does no good unless that person follows the "law"
(Constitution) as is prescribed in the 98th section of the Doctrine and
Covenants. If Mormons follow that then we can have a healthy discussion
focusing on how to get out of this mess rather than who is to blame.
Furthermore we can quit making the same mistakes and stop the deceptive
practices. Peace, unity, equality, prosperity,personal responsibility, liberty
- isn't that what we want?
m.g. scottLAYTON, UTRe: TA11:41 p.m. May 5, 2012"It will be interesting if Romney wins, and the Senate Majority Leader is
still Harry Reid. Two of the most powerful leaders in the country who might sit
next to each other in church as brothers, and then contend with each other on
Pennsylvania Ave. That scene will, for better or worse, show that the LDS Church
cannot be pigeon holed as a right wing only church. (That will probably be for
the better)."============== ???What?!And exactly why – (since Senator Reid is also a faithful LDS) –
why would Mitt Romney need to win to show that the world that members of
the LDS Church are not pigeon holed as right wing only church?Doesn’t the fact of Senator Reid already prove that, without Mitt
Romney?FYI -- injecting Mitt Romney winning runs smack opposite and
counter-intuitive to making your point, because it would re-enforce the
right-wing only totalitarianism already found with Utah Mormon Republicans.
Reid used to be a lot more conservative than he is now.
If one believes in the Book of Mormon and that Joseph Smith was a prophet the
history is a moot point. All religions have some dark histories even
Christianity. Christ is the only one that is perfect.
I am a Mormon ...........and have been for 27 yrs...........I don't think
that if Mitt wins it will be the second comming because God said no one knows
when that will happen .I voted at every election,but i also pray for weeks
before the elections and wait upon God's answer,If you truly believe in God
he will let you know what should happen.I joined the church the day after
Hurrcaine Gloria came though New England.When i was dragging my feet about
joining,God spoke to me in my heart,That's when i joined and can't be
any happier than i am now.....The blessings that have come my way is great
because of my doing my family history i was able to find my Father who died when
i was 10 yrs old and my mother died in 2008.Thanks to the temple i was able to
be sealed to them,knowing that i will be with them when i die.People
shouldn't judge my religion unless they have read the Book of Mormon and
prayed about it
Opposition makes people think about and stand up for what they really believe
in. Hence, it should never be suppressed or ignored.
If there weren't so many "historical" problems, the spotlight would
not be so painful. But, because the Church declares itself uniquely connected
with the powers of heaven, there will be those determined to publicly challenge
its authenticity. There will also be those, on the left and on the right who
will use Romney's faith as a political weapon against him. But he will also
enjoy the support Mormons who would vote for any Mormon just because he or she
is a Mormon.Personally, I am more interested in what he would do as
president. And outside of restating his support of Bush era fiscal and foreign
policy and his unbridled support for the Ryan budget. I really don't see
how his equity capital management experience at Bain Capital or his unremarkable
record for job creation in Massachusetts, qualifies him for the presidency. If
it were all about how to make a lot of money, he would be a great candidate.It is amusing that his greatest political success was probably the
Massachusetts health plan. You know, the one that Obama Care was modeled after.
Re: TA1It will be interesting if Romney wins, and the Senate
Majority Leader is still Harry Reid. Two of the most powerful leaders in the
country who might sit next to each other in church as brothers, and then contend
with each other on Pennsylvania Ave. That scene will, for better or worse, show
that the LDS Church cannot be pigeon holed as a right wing only church. (That
will probably be for the better).
Religion doesn't belong in politics but if you're going to put it on
the table don't be surprised if it turns out to be a liability rather than
The Church and membership has lived with so much hatefulness aimed at us for so
long that nothing these new comers can produce will have much lasting affect.
Keep in mind that not all Evangelicals are like the hate mongers you see at
conference time. Christ said his sheep know His voice. Our Evanglical brethren
are members of the Church of the Lamb of God too - for the most part anyway.
They know right from wrong and I think they sense the wrongfulness of the haters
whether or not they understand who and we are and what we teach.
Perhaps as some of the other writers have alluded to the members of the LDS
Church will begin to realize that LDS does not necessarily equal Republican. And
that the "friends" who "share" the "same values" we have
may not really be "friends". Perhaps this will lead us to seriously
consider and study who we vote for and maybe - just maybe, get a few more of us
off our couches and involved with the political process in our communities. That
might be the major benefit of having a prominent LDS Church member involved in
the Presidential race.
What I feared came upon me. That is a paraphrase, but it is in the Bible. Let
us stop fretting and looking for trouble. Live life with integrity and values,
forget what others say. I am a convert to the church living in a small town
populated with a lot of Mormons. It was not their lives that got my attention.
It was all the negatives. When the missionaries came, I said to my husband,
lets listen to them and see if they are as crazy as we have heard. Now lets
calm down and work to preserve all religion.
Mormons can be Democrat or Republican. Neither is more correct. Everyone please
face it.Increased exposure for the Church will be energizing. I am
already getting excited. Marriott cannot keep Book of Mormon's in stock.
Now if everyone will just live their religion the Church will be OK. Its when
we don't live it that we get into trouble.And they are never
going to like us. So get used to that too. But those who ask intelligent
questions deserve intelligent answers, so please, study up. You may be the only
source of information they will have.
Back on subject... we have the following from Romeny"If these
reports are true, this is a dark day for freedom and it's a day of shame
for the Obama administration," Romney told a crowd of supporters in Virginia
on Thursday morning. "We are a place of freedom here and around the world
and we should stand up and defend freedom wherever it is under attack."This from a man the criticized Obama for "politicizing" the
killing of Osama, then turns right around and tries to politicize this mans
plight. This from the same man who says the above, then would deny anyone from
Cuba fleeing that countries oppression the same sanctuary. The mean
season goes both ways. Mormons claim Obama isn't a
"christian"..... and others claim Mormons aren't Christian. The
circle goes round and round. Heck there are more than a few who still
can't accept Obama is an American. So yes, the political mean
season has started. It started about 4 years ago.
Way to go Democrat! Any Mormon who uses his religion to criticize another s
politics doesn´t understand his religion. After all, most Mormons
don´t even know what a democrat or a republican is let alone who is running
for president of the US. Our religion is much bigger than petty political
Mountainman.... agreed. I can't think of a primary where the candidates
didn't attack each other, and make over the top statements, in either
party. Hence the claim that democrats are x, and republicans are something
totally different is silliness. No kidding a candidate will say comments like
"who do you want on the other end of the phone during a crises"... duh,
it is always going to be themselves as the most qualified.Truthseeker - I agree with you completely. How the church claims to be
non-partisan, then has its shell corporation run a paper that is anything but
non-partisan, it makes for a very awkward relationship between the two. Its
kind of like saying "my family is about loving everyone, but my kid hates
your guts". I really do think the DN could serve its mission to inform and
educate without becoming a tool of a political party, one for which 40 percent
of the US members do not belong. I think our invested tithing money could be
used in better pursuits.but that is just me. ( a former
conservative that is tired of the negative tone of the party now )
....."This dialogue makes us stronger".Mitt Romney......What can be said
that hasn't already been said a zillion times by the left..Mitt has now
been endorsed by Michelle Bachman,the founder of the tea party caucus in the
house of representatives and strong evangelical Christian woman....I believe
this to be an unbeatable link-up...This should send the stock market soaring
early next year. People are just itching to buy and sell.....
The country will be hearing a new little slogan should Romney win.....how does
"Salt Lake City Politics" sound?
I can't help but imgaine the ridicule or black eye Mitt Romney and his
Super PAC will cause the LDS church for rinning the extrememly negative,
mud-slinging campaing he has already ran for the nomination.I
thought one could get ex-communicated for causing negative publicity toward the
LDS church.This election should be telling....
If you think the general election campaign is going to be a down and dirty fight
with Mitt Romney running for President, just what do you think it will be like
if he is elected? Do you think that the Moromon issue will just disappear? No,
it won't, if Mitt Romney were to be elected President the church is going
to be the one taking all of the flack not Romney himself and 4 years is a very
long time. It is going to be a very tough time for our Missionaies in the field
in the U.S.
RE: TheProudDuck,We're really not that far apart on this point, are you
sure?They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied,
"You are right in saying ‘I am’."(Luke 22:70) Jesus knew
the Jewish leaders would know he was telling them that He was God. Which
led to God on the cross. “Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he
laid down his life for us:(1John 3:16)@zoar63 (Exodus 3:14 Greek LXX, The
Apostles Bible) God said unto Moses, ‘I am’ (the BEING) )HE WHO IS
(ho on): and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, HE WHO IS
(ho on) hath sent me unto you. “Hear, O Israel: The
LORD(YHWH) our God(Elohim) is one LORD(YHWH)..(Deut 6:4)Shema.*Namebaptizing in the* Name(not names)of Father ,and of the Son, and of the Holy
Ghost.(Mt 28:19)Three persons but one God,(Tri)same being or essence(unity).
Monotheism. Christians worship One God.
@obryckiSANDY, UT"am not a mormon, but grew up in
Utah. Don't mormons believe that when a LDS president takes office, the
second coming of Christ will happen?"This is how Urban Legends
Sharrona -- Leave Elder McConkie and his awful ultra vires book out of this.
We're talking about Mormon doctrine, not Mormon Doctrine, the latter not
being any authoritative statement of the former.More Mormons need to
read and understand the Athanasian Creed (if only so Elder Holland doesn't
misunderstand the meaning of "immensus" again, and try to make a joke
based on the misunderstanding). I hear all the time from Mormons that they
think that the Trinity means the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the same
person. You'll hear it argued "When Jesus was baptized and heard the
Father praising him from heaven, was he talking to himself?" That argument
only makes sense if you think Trinitarianism is Modalism. But the Athanasian
Creed warns not just against "dividing the Substance" (i.e., pulling a
McConkie and contradicting the canonized scriptures that declare that the
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, calling them three separate Gods), but
also against "confounding the persons" -- that is, overlooking their
distinct and independent personhood.We're really not that far
apart on this point.
I'm excited about the attention, maybe it will give us a chance to clear up
the misinformation spread by many hired hands. Of course, Mormons are usually
too busy serving etc, to combat everything said against them by liberal
activists and religious extremes (out of the two, the liberal activists are much
more vocal and dishonest, and oddly, they almost always deny who they are, why
they are doing it, and so on). I hope LDS will find a little time
to speak the truths, otherwise we let the anti-Mormons define us, and those same
anti-Mormons who post here all day, are everywhere else. They comment under many
names, and in some places (CNN for example) they are much less likely to try to
appear civil and non-bigoted.
Mitt Romney is not my choice for President, because he flip flops on too many
issues, and I fear that he will cater to globalist and banksters, that will
finish destroying our country. We have some serious problems where we are
losing our freedoms fast, and Ron Paul is the only one who can get our country
back on the right track. I have to vote for the man who is consistent, and
stands by the Constitution and freedom. We have some evil globalist that have
taken over our country and the world, and the only way to change this is to get
someone who is knowledgeable on all the issues. Our food (GMO), water
(fluoride, aluminum, etc.), and air is poisoned, safe medical treatments are
kept from us, the FDA is trying to take away our supplements like they did to
the European Union, and there is a depopulation movement that we need to stop.
Mitt Romney is not knowledgeable on the tyranny we are going through with our
food, supplements, and the dictatorship when it comes to health treatments. If
we do not have our health, we have nothing. RON PAUL 2012!
The LDS Church's stance is that it doesn't endorse a political
candidate or party. Considering that it owns Deseret News which
supports/promotes Republican policies and candidates I don't see how this
Obrycki: "Don't Mormons believe that when an LDS President takes
office, the second coming will happen?"No we don't, but
just the same, I wouldn't stand next to a Mormon when lightening strikes!
What a great real man we have in Mitt Romney. We cannot find any close to him
among the other candidates.God bless all those that accept Mitt as our
next Resident of this great nation of the free.When God calls a man,
support him all the way."Many are chosen, but a few are
The may be the greatest moment of growth for the church since its restoration,
win or lose the US Presidency. With its central mission to spread its
message to the far corners of the earth, at no other time in history has the
church had such an opportunity as this, with one of its members challenging for
the top job in the political world, and at the peak of the digital age.Yes, there will be antagonists, but they will increase worldwide interest in
the church. Many will want to know for themselves, and will seek to find the
answers. As Pres. Hinckley said, you bring all the good that you have, and
let us see if we can add to it.
I think the nomination of Mr. Romney will certainly shine a bright light on the
Church; hopefully, it will cause more 'casual' members to take a
second look at their own religion.As an active member myself, I've
already been asked some questions about Mr. Romney. I'm a U.S. citizen
living and Canada, and I will vote for President Obama.
Given the scorched-earth and dishonest quality of Romney's campaign to
date, HE is the one who is perpetrating the "mean political season."
I get so tired of those who disagree with Harry Reid's politics accusing
him of being a less than devout LDS. Everything I have ever heard about Senator
Reid is that he is a VERY devout Latter-Day Saint. I am just sad that the media
almost NEVER mentions it. That we could have an LDS president AND an LDS Senate
Majority Leader at the same time is something that I would think the media would
be interested in. I also think that when the campaigns swing into
high gear this fall, Harry Reid will step in and defend his faith -- even when
the attacks are designed to support his candidate Barack Obama.
Re: m.g. scottI'm not worried at all, I'm thankful that
Mormon church is getting more publicity because it will help open up the true
history of the church as more people look into it. My hope is that my family and
friends that are still stuck in the Mormon church will find the truth like I
@ Utah Blue Devil. You must have missed the Hillary, Obama debates last election
when Hillary told America, “Obama isn’t qualified or prepared to
lead this nation”. Imagine that, one liberal attacking another liberal!
When the Church claims it doesn't endorse a political party or candidate I
guess they mean over the pulpit. Clearly the Church-owned Deseret News promotes
Republican viewpoints and candidates. Deseret News might claim they are merely
a counterpoint to the Salt Lake Tribune. But then they are taking positions in
support of the Republican Party and the claim about no endorsement rings hollow.
@mountainman.... so are you saying the Newt and the rest of them are a shell
for the democrat party? Do they know that they are in fact liberals, and Romney
is the real conservative?Holy smokes - blaming the democrats has now
moved to a new level. When republicans attack one of their own, it is actually
because they are doing these attacks on behest of the liberals. What the heck else can we blame on this homogenous group of people called
RE" HawkyoBats are not all blind. Some have diminished vision
due to adaptation to their environment. Some bats fail to develop their eyes
because they function better without them. Maybe some people would see better
without their eyes too. While it's a popular expression, modern science
has proven it false.Just becuase people disagree with one's
views does not make them dishonest. I would hope those who disagree with you
would not label you as dishonest. I'm sure you're a decent person who
tries their best, although I disagree with you.Romney and Obama have
alot in common. They also have their differences. One thing they have in common
is they both love power and want to be President. One difference is the amount
of money they have in their Caymen Islands bank accounts.
Romney has ran as negative of a campaign as possible to "win" the
Republican nomination. He did not win with ideas, policies, or goals. He won
with money spent on negative ads. If I were Obama I'd be the one afraid of
a "mean political season".I'd really like to see Romney
step up to the plate and condemn the negative ads the Super Pacs run on
'his behalf'. An honorable Christian would do that.
Star Bright, so on top of everything else that we will be judged
on when we die, the way we voted will be also. got it. i'm gonna go ahead
and guess that only people who voted republican are getting into heaven???
It's a very sad commentary when church members are "accustomed" to
verbal abuse and much worse after walking out of their own meetings. There is a
very large silent community that won't saying anything on behalf of the
church, and small but loud bigoted community that nobody stands up too. Mormons
are not the problem in Utah.
@TheProudDuck, The "Social Trinity" concept views the Trinity consists
of three persons -- each a distinct person, with a distinct consciousness --
whose unity consists of a loving relationship. If there's a difference
between that understanding and Mormon doctrine, I don't see it. OK,JS
taught the trinity(actually modalism) at one time: …the doctrine of
Christ, and the only true doctrine of the Father, and the son, and the Holy
Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.(2Nephi 31:21)then,..Father,
Son, and Holy Ghost comprise the Godhead. As each of these persons is a
God…these three are the only Gods we worship.. (Mormon Doctrine, Bruce R.
McConkie.…baptizing in the* Name(not names)of Father ,and of
the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.(Mt 28:19)Three persons but one God,(Tri)same
being or essence(unity). Monotheism. Christians worship One God.The
Athanasian Creed explains, And the catholic (universal) faith is this: That we
worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the
Persons, nor dividing the Substance.
With all this mean talk I do worry a bit about bias creeping into the LDS
majority communities from watching TV and the media. I hope everyone
understands that when an Evangelical preacher says something bigoted that he/she
does not represent all Evangelicals.When I lived in Florida, New
York, and L.A., my Evangelical neighbors were always outstanding to their Mormon
neighbors. The majority in Utah too, except one small group around Salt Lake.
Re: scotchipmanEvery church, organization, political party, ect.
that has any history, will have some bad elements and episodes. That the LDS
Church has some is really not the point. The point is, if the Joseph Smith
story is true, then none of the rest really matters. And if it isn't true,
(as I assume you believe) then why worry?
@ Noodlekaboodle - So, where were the deseret news article refuting the
ridiculous birthers or the people who accused Obama of being both a radical
christian and a muslim? Oh, I get it. You only defend people in your
club."If the Associated Press makes such an article I am sure
the Des News will print that too. Stop blaming the Des News for the Associated
Brother Chuck Schroeder "HOLD ON HERE." "That's why the DNews
trys to break the World's Record for the most stories about Mitt
Romney?."First of all, check your reading. This article is from
the Associated Press not the Des News. The DNews reprints syndicated reports
from around the world. That is their job.Second, turn to any cable
news channel. Stories about Mitt Romney are running all day and night.
The increased publicity of the Mormon church will bring out more of the true
history of the church which will lead a few to really study for the first time.
Most Mormons refuse to really look into the true church history which can open
their eyes, they instead continue to only read church approved literature which
protects them from reality.
Koeger "Let's hope not, otherwise I would expect the likes of Harry
Reid to step up to the podium and say "Enough is enough! Leave my Church
alone!"That would be awesome. I like having Senator Reid in
office with differing opinions. It makes it so Romney isn't a spokesperson
for the LDS Church.
RE: LDS LIBERALI am curious, you and many like you mention Romneys
flip flops as a negative. Are you aware of some of the huge flip flops by
Obama? If not, here are a couple. Before becoming President, Obama said that
it was un-patriotic for Bush to run up a 9 trillion dollar debt. Well, if that
is what qualifies for un-patriotic, then Obama is a traitor for his 15 trillion
debt. Or try this gem. A year ago, Obama, with much class I'd say, said
that we should not "spike the football" with regards to the killing of
Bin Laden. Now, he is spiking more footballs than the entire NFL. Or just for
fun, let's try this one. Obama said that he would not allow one dime to be
added to the debt to have his health care plan passed. When ads like these,
shown in Obamas own words, go on the air, I doubt anyone is going to accuse
Romney of being the flip flopper. I could go on about things like
waterboarding, Guantanmo, ect....
It's been a mean 3 1/2 year political season already when it comes to
religion. I still get mean-spirited, foolish emails claiming that President
Obama is a Muslim, and I expect that will continue.
Outmeal "Relax folks. The anti-Mormon Fundamentalists and Evangelicals are
in the Republican party. The more secular and liberal Democrats could care less.
The general election will not turn on religion."You should see
MSNBC they have already started 24/7. Most of it just made up as they speak
Ronald Reagan said, “it isn’t that liberals don’t know a lot,
it’s just that what they know isn’t so”. The same could be
said about those who attack the LDS church, most of whom are in fact, liberals!
Some would argue that liberalism is its own religion.
This Associated Press article provides a look at politics and Mormonism similar
to what you see in the Salt Lake Tribune on a daily basis with commenters
stating their opinion routinely. This type of article does bring out more
comments than on most topics due to religion and politics being discussed in the
same article. The DN is fair and balanced for about half of the Utahns so the
Tribune has their audience, also. Glad to see that this is starting to include
more people around the United States who will get to see more articles in the DN
as they are perusing the Internet. There is a purpose for what happens and the
message moves forward along with the good-will, fun-loving, kind-hearted, and
volunteerism of people of all ages that moves Utah forward, whether they like it
or not. The United States of America is such a wonderful place to live and in
most countries around the world there is not an open and frank discussion in the
media as we have here. Government is even open for a lot of the happenings, and
that is not always the case for many. Be grateful and happy
RE: ObryckiIt is called the White Horse Prophecy but not spoke much
about these days. The Prophet Joseph smith taught it.
If you don't see a difference between Romney and Obama, you're blind
as a bat, or dishonest.
He doesn't vote "in favor of" abortion; he votes in favor of the
right of the woman, and not the government, to make that very difficult and
personal decision. Furry 1993:So it's OK to abort a child (one
of God's spirit chidren) if it means you are just supporting a woman's
right?So next, as some are proposing, that we euphenize handicapped
children, that would be ok too? What's the difference in one day?
As someone once said "There is no such thing as bad PR". People should
relax and enjoy what is happening. They said the same thing about Kennedy (JFK)
and catholicism. Washington was going to move to Rome and the list goes on.
Being a member of the LDS Church can be very difficult thing. For example 10%
of your gross salary towards the Church and people only have a physical
relationship with their wife or husband. How about that. People should get off
the LDS or Mormon bandwagon and focus of political policys both local and
forgein. For example, will Mitt bring the troops home, what about North Korea,
China, the Middle East. What about unemployment, what about health care, the
price of gas. Come on folks start asking real questions, not questions that
relate to a man's or woman's personal beliefs.
@TheProudDuckI think a lot of it is demographic voting patterns. Consider
this: Democrats are more willing to vote for women, blacks, Catholics, jews,
hispanics, muslims, people married 3 times (it was asked at a time Giuliani was
running), homosexuals, and atheists. Republicans are more willing to vote for
the elderly (McCain was running), and mormons. Notice how everyone is divided up
into the groups that tend to vote for the respective parties (other than
catholics which are more 50-50). An exception was back in 2007 when Democrats
were more willing to vote for Mormons than Republicans. I think this mostly
changed because of prop 8. So I think a part of the issue with Mormons and the
Democratic vote (at least why Democrats are less willing to vote for them,
I'm definitely not going to pretend there's 0 bigotry among Democrats)
is that the word Mormon triggers thoughts like "conservative" or
"prop 8" and some responding to the poll think of whether or not
they'd vote for the average LDS candidate.
The evangeligical antagonists (like those ourside of Temple Square) will be the
one's to keep and eye out for, They have the theological axe to
grind....not the Democrats.Funny how your statement before the above
quote proves you are wrong.I don't think Reid would ever stand
up and support the Church. If you have some references to prove that, I would
be happy to change my mind.
re:lost in DCappropo nameActually, Harry Reid has a mixed
record on abortion, as does Mitt Romney. Reid maintains he is against
abortion except rape, incest and life/health issues.Reid:Voted
YES on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives.
(Mar 2005)Voted YES on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during
other crime. (Mar 2004)Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions except
for maternal life. (Mar 2003)Voted YES on maintaining ban on Military Base
Abortions. (Jun 2000)Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct
1999)Rated 29% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003)
However, this has not stopped conservatives from distorting
Reid's positions. Did Harry Reid vote in favor of same-sex
marriage in NV? There has been no same-sex marriage issue in a general
election. Reid has stated he believes marriage should be between a man and a
woman. Maybe you can provide your sources.
@obryckiWhat I you are referring to is the so-called "White
Horse Prophecy" (the whole "constitution will hang by a thread"
thing) which is not regarded by the church to be doctrine or a prophecy.
I'm not sure if it makes any claims about the second coming though. There
are some members who do believe it nonetheless and that is where you got it
LDS Liberal and others, polls have shown that Democrats are more likely to vote
against a Mormon than Republicans. Sure, there are evangelical
Christians who oppose Mormons for theological reasons. There are also (more)
secular Democrats who oppose Mormons for cultural, moral, and philosophical
reasons. (That is, they don't think highly of *any* conspicuously
religious people.) It may well be that elite Democrats are,
personally, broad-minded enough not to care about a man's religion.
However, they are also ruthless enough to use any tool that comes to hand. Rest
assured that the broadside of Bill Maher (Obama's biggest donor)against
Mormonism the other day, is just the opening plausibly-deniable salvo. The
Obama campaign itself won't take the cheap shots, but they will make sure
they are taken. That's the Chicago way.
Regarding the nature of God, Mormons sometimes go too far in opposing the
doctrine of the Trinity, which they usually misunderstand as meaning that other
Christians believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are the
same person wearing different hats at different times. (That's actually a
doctrine called Modalism, not Trinitarianism.)In fact, there are
interpretations of the Trinity that are consistent with how Mormonism views the
unity of the Godhead (see D&C 20:28). The "Social Trinity" concept
views the Trinity consists of three persons -- each a distinct person, with a
distinct consciousness -- whose unity consists of a loving relationship.If there's a difference between that understanding and Mormon
doctrine, I don't see it.
To lost in DC 3:26 p.m.You have a problem with Senator Reid voting
in a way that protects each person's free agency? (And that's what he
does. He doesn't vote "in favor of" abortion; he votes in favor of
the right of the woman, and not the government, to make that very difficult and
personal decision. He votes in favor of people having the same CIVIL rights,
regardless their sexual orientation. That's what free agency is all
about.) It's sad that you would mis-construe his positions and his votes
the way you did in the referenced comment.
Stand strong.Don't get in debates over this.But, by all means,
don't get pushed around either.
LDS Lib,yes, clown prince harry will stand up for his convictions. Many
of his votes, however, say his convictions are more firmly grounded in the
democratic platform than in LDS doctrine. His votes in favor of abortion and gay
marriage are perfect examples
The title is all wrong; "Mitt Romney, Mormons brace for a mean
political season"it should read;"Mitt Romney,
and Utah Mormons brace for a mean political season"FYI - Most Mormons are not Americans, therfore Most Mormons are not
As for the article itself: those who care most about Romney's Mormonism are
not evangelicals, secularists, or the members of any denomination. Its Mormons
that care. Romney's religion has never been a losing factor for him. In
fact, its a net plus with fundraising.I think that part of coming of
age as an religio-ethnic group in America is being able to take your lumps and
realize that not every criticism of Gov. Romney is a criticism of Mormonism and
not every question about Mormonism's past is an attack on the religion
itself. Yes, there will be legitimate questions and I think the Church views
most publicity as good publicity. As for hatefull comments--those will be
coming from the usual wingnut suspects on the internet, not from the Romney or
Unfortunately having an LDS presidential candidate will likely be divisive among
us, the faithful members.For instance, I'm an Independent,
voting for whoever I believe is the "best" choice regardless of party.
Right now I see virtually no difference in Obama and Romney. They both have
backgrounds of moderation. I'm inclined to vote for Obama, as I believe he
is making good decisions. However, in church I'm beginning to
hear more and more political talk. And it is not moderate. Often attacking a
candidate or point of view. After this election cycle is over, we
must still be faithful members and Christ-like toward each other. We need to do
that now. Or we will be the real losers.
Re: CougarBlue and LDSLiberal: Both Senator Reid and Governor
Romney are good men. Both have ties to, and the appreciation of, top leaders of
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Romney served with distinction
as a Stake President and worked with the Mormon Brethren while organizing the
Olympics. Sen. Reid was helpful in introducing President Monson to President
Obama. Not long ago one of the Apostles invited Senator Reid to share his
personal witness at a meeting back East and he shared his testimony and
conversion to Mormonism. It's easy to look at someone you don't agree
with politically and then think somehow they are less of a Latter-day Saint, but
I disagree. They are fine people, just with some different views.
We just need to live our beliefs and be comfortable with who we are. It will be
a great opportunity for many of us to become more articulate about what we
believe.I encourage rank and file members to show as much class and
neutrality as church leadership about how we talk about candidates with our
family and friends. Many seem to think you cannot be a good LDS member and a
Democrat whereas there are positive correlations with the values of the church
in BOTH parties. I think it is great that both Romney AND Reid are Mormon, even
if I dislike some of their policies.
@obrycki:I didn't grow up in Utah, but I am LDS. We believe
that no one knows the time of the Second Coming. We don't believe that
if/when an LDS president is elected the Second Coming will happen, but most of
us believe Hell will freeze over at that time.
This gives the LDS Church a tremendous opportunity to answer the question - is
it OK to be a Democrat, Liberal, Socialist, or whatever and be a member of their
Church in full fellowship? The answer from many members will be an emphatic NO!
Nevertheless, there exists the opportunity to clear up a lot of doubts.
I really don't like this neutral stand when the administration is going
after the Catholic Church first, and we will be one of the next targets.
Christianity is beng hounded and people are being killed, all over the world and
our administration says nothing. If we don't stand together, or speak up
then you all know the story when they come for us.The dem platform has
evil things in it. This business about birth control that we all must pay for,
and abortions that are so horrid are all coming if Romney doesn't win this
election. There is a video put out by a Catholic organization that says,
at one point, our vote will be recorded here on earth and in the eternities. I
believe that! I'm not sure our God is neutral about the things going on in
this country and how the Constitution is being trampled on, and we believe that
document is divinely inspired. I don't think HE will hold us harmless as
we stand and watch.
I am not a mormon, but grew up in Utah. Don't mormons believe that when a
LDS president takes office, the second coming of Christ will happen?
It is too bad Romney has to be the Mormon face to the world. He represents so
much of what is questioned about the church, the distorted histories and cover
ups, the changing of the stories to suite the situation, the non disclosers,
hiding information and secrets to further propaganda goals, wishy-washy
character of saying anything to gain an objective. There are so many solid
honest Mormons who would be an honorable representation of, and for, the church.
Too bad that they are not represented.
So, where were the deseret news article refuting the ridiculous birthers or the
people who accused Obama of being both a radical christian and a muslim? Oh, I
get it. You only defend people in your club. Heck, remember all the opinion
letters from 08 where people were mad because 80-90% of blacks voted for Obama.
Will we get those when 90% of mormons vote for Romney?
Senator Reid is man of integrity.If push came to shove, he'll stand
by his convictions.He already has numerous times on the Senate floor.Mitt Romney has made for himself enough Flip-Flopping material to last a
lifetime.They won't need to go after his religion.Unless,
somehow his Religion is the root cause of his lack of integrity
(Flip-Flopping)Mitt has made his bed, he can sleep in it.The
evangeligical antagonists (like those ourside of Temple Square) will be the
one's to keep and eye out for, They have the theological axe to
grind....not the Democrats.
I am so tired of these kinds of headlines. I am a Mormon, and I don't spend
one second worrying about whether or not I am going to be "attacked" by
the media, or by politicians. The way these headlines read, you would think that
Mormons are the most self-involved and self-concious people in the world -
always worrying about whether or not we are going to be offended or persecuted.
Ezra Taft Benson defined pride as enmity between you and your fellow man. Thus,
this article is all about pride. Stop worrying selfishly about your own feelings
and go out and find joy in life. Go help your fellow man. Stop feeling sorry for
yourselves. It's pointless, and it makes you prideful. Stop
"bracing" for the worst. Fear is the opposite of hope.
@KougarRomney's the one who has charged the Obama administration with
wanting to make secularism (he incorrectly used the word secularism, he meant
atheism) the national religion. Republicans have frequently done this weird
thing where they criticize Obama for spending 20 years attending Reverand
Wrights' church, attack him for barely ever going to church, and some still
think he's a Muslim. So... while I agree that Democrats launching religious
attacks on Romney is wrong... let's not pretend Republicans don't do
HOLD ON HERE.First I'll Quote: "LDS officials have
emphasized repeatedly that the church doesn't communicate with the Romney
campaign. In a lengthy statement on their main website, Mormon leaders say the
church does not "endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or
platforms."That's why the DNews trys to break the
World's Record for the most stories about Mitt Romney?.Let them
say, if this is true then "Hello Hope and Change"ANDGoodbye "Hype and Blame."Like it or not, (Mormonism)
will be an issue in the general election.Romney does communicate
with the LDS Church though.Is this another "flip flop"?.
Kouger. From what you said if Harry Reid said something like that I guess I
would be surprised.
I'm not even a huge fan of Romney's politics, but I *am* a fan at how
Romney has handled the press inquiries with regard to his faith for the most
part. Again, though I might disagree with Romney on national budget priorities
or foreign policy, I *do* think he's a reasonably typical example of who
and what a Mormon is. He and Ann have raised five boys and he's dedicated
a lot of his time in past years to lay-member callings. I think it's a
fabulous thing to have people asking intelligent questions about 'what
that's all about' and, consequently, have appreciated that aspect of
What people say about your faith will lead some to it and drive others away. How
it all shakes out should be fine if you believe in your faith. I am not saying
to induce a positive where there might not be one. I am saying that being looked
at differently one way or another, relative to your faith, is all part of having
faith. Right?If challenges are viewed in the latter days or however
else you view challenges in the current, then realize that it can always be
worse. My advice, be the best you can be regardless of how you are thought of.
If things get bad so to speak, crying over spilled milk one to many times might
weaken your strength. Let the election play out, and live your lives LDS folks.
I doubt Harry Reid will say much. He is a politican first and LDS second.in my
Ideally religion (Mormonism) will not be an issue in the general election,
however, IF and WHEN the Democrats and Obama feel threatened and the polls go
Romney's way, then the likelihood of Mormonism as an issue will go from
"0 to 60" in a day. Let's hope not, otherwise I would expect the
likes of Harry Reid to step up to the podium and say "Enough is enough!
Leave my Church alone!"
Relax folks. The anti-Mormon Fundamentalists and Evangelicals are in the
Republican party. The more secular and liberal Democrats could care less. The
general election will not turn on religion.
I think it will be good to have someone like Mitt Romney in the spotlight for
the LDS faith. Whether good or bad. The more people discuss and do their own
research, the better informed they become and can shape their own opinions.
Which the opposite will happen if those who attack the church are allowed to be
the unofficial spokesperson for the group.