Comments about ‘Defending the Faith: A simple explanation works best for the Restoration’

KC Mormon: Hmmm, I don't recall stating that one was a draft of the other. Authors will commonly write multiple stories simultaneously. I'll admit that this is a stretch as far as the Spalding theory goes, but would you be willing to admit the same stretching of logic pertaining to the theories backing the Abraham papyrus? Or do you allow your faith to trump all reason and logic?

I'm definitely not married to the Spalding theory, although I find it intriguing. View of the Hebrews, Oliver Cowdery, amateur archaeology, all could have contributed to the authoring of the BoM. Each of these explanations make more sense to me than that of a supernatural origin.

Searching
First what are two editions of the same story if not DRAFTS? As for the Book of Abraham there is one very large problem the critics have not yet been abler to answer. IF the few fragments we have today are all that Joseph Smith had how do they account for the claims of contemporary NON-LDS that speak of a great number of records some of which were referred to as large scrolls that can not account for the few fragments that exists today? When Non-LDS say they saw scrolls rolled out and placed under glass that had black and red writing on them we do not find those in the fragments existent today. Now to liken this to the Spaulding manuscript we find NO contemporary record of two manuscripts of the same basic story line but with different names and backgrounds for the people.

Whether its fromSpaulding or Ethan smith or Joseph or Oliver or Sidney does not matter. The book is clearly a product of early 19th century authorship. It's themes are from the time period as was its production. It includes language and events that couldn't have been known to ancient Americans and that are anachronistic. Efforts to validate the book as authenticate appear to be made as an effort to justify misplaced faith rather than a search for truth. Joseph's other translation attempts from the Abraham facsimiles to the kinder hook plates to the Greek psalter all point to a much simpler conclusion than an after the series of supernatural events that Peterson suggests.

Gramajane:

Fret not, my dear. I apply my scrutiny evenly. Yes, the Bible also is a supernatural farce.

This article series is titled "Defending the Faith." I have no problems in any way with Moromism or Mormon beliefs.

These articles should be called "Why I believe," or some akin to that. Defending should rely on something stronger than opinion.

I want to point out that my purpose is not to critisize the Mormon church or faithful, just the title of this series of articles.

your answer continues to be a non answer
sorry

Actually L Valfre I have gone to the source the BofM read and had the confirmation it is true. End of story there I'm afraid I don't need to look around or read other material have you read the BofM yourself?

Thanks Dr. Peterson. Your scholarship, insights, and ability to clearly communicate them are much appreciated. I also get quite a kick (probably unfortunately) out of all the commotion you stir up every time you post an article.

To: Dr. Petersons,Sidney Rigdon, stole Spalding's work for whatever reason?

It was used it to set Joseph Smith up as a prophet. Because of Joseph Smith’s desire to be a modern day “prophet” and its requirement for a “book” that Solomon Spalding’s manuscript is discovered by Joseph Smith through his cousin and Sidney Rigdon.
In 1814, during the period between the submission of Spalding’s manuscript to the publisher and Spalding’s own death, the manuscript disappears for a while. It is believed that Sidney Rigdon, a leather tanner and book binder, was responsible for this disappearance. He was seen by Many witnesses frequenting the various printing shops and publishing houses in the area. One of the many witnesses, Joseph Miller, a companion of Solomon Spalding in his later years, mentions in his letters that Solomon told him that he suspected Sidney of purloining his manuscript.

Even in the event that the spaulding story, and all other critics stories about the Book of Mormon are false, that doesn't make Joseph's story true. His story is the most outlandish and unbelievable of them all.
Petersen definately jumps to a false conclusion.

Bless you Brother Petersen! I watch with child-like delight at all the frantic bee-havior when the nest is gently prodded. It always seems to be the same bees that come out. :o)

@aaazzz - I think this is a general interest column. If you want the scholarly stuff with footnotes and bibliographies, you should check out the Neal A Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship and some of the other LDS apologetic sites. More than enough there to keep you occupied.

I don't believe that the veracity of the Book of Mormon will ever be unassailably established by proof or evidence. God will make sure that's it's always a matter of faith. This comments to this column confirm what I learned years ago as a missionary. If you believe what we say, no explanation is necessary. If you don't believe what we say, then no explanation is possible.

If the original 1830 Book of Mormon was inspired than why were there so many errors and changes and additions and deletions, when compared to current editions? How do you account for the stunning parallels in both content and order between the BoM and the View of the Hebrews published (7 years before the BoM) less than 100 miles from the Joseph Smith's parents home? If the BoM is true, then why has the Mormon church changed it? Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. Since he was wrong about the moon, is it safe to trust him regarding the way to Heaven? Probably not!

There is so much information out in the world that supports the improbability of Mormonism that it can't be properly addressed here, but yet it exists. And as far as accepting angels is concerned as the source of Smith's vision....there is no certain evidence they exist (including in the Bible). Faith is not an adequate or reasonable defense of any belief which purports to have any empirical connection to the reality which we all share.

Has anyone here ever read the Spaulding Manuscript or View of the Hebrews?

I have been reading and scanning them (when I have time). So far, I find only a few very basic relationships to the Book of Mormon (foreign folk in America) and no similar story arc.

I will let you know if I come across something else.

Gramajane
OAKLEY, ID
What is interesting to me is that it seems some of the same people who feel angel visitations to Joseph Smith, are to impossible or ridiclous to believe and so would call them "supernatural" -- maybe haven't realized how many angels are involved in the Bible record of Jesus birth, and throughout Old and New Testaments?

---------------

And here we are in the last days and we do not receive any more visits. I have often wondered why. There were plenty when the church was restored, but there haven't been any for centuries. And the Lord used to tell Joseph everything and he had it written down - but now we must all rely on feelings.

Does anyone know why the direct communication stopped with Joseph and why angels are not visiting the church members any more?

Lane Myer:

My suspicion is that your perception is only half right. In other words, the reason those things aren't happening now is because they weren't happening before either.

Even the TV20 anti-Mormon (SM) has finally admitted that the Spaulding theory is dead. Of course he moved to another theory entirely, and is pushing the View of the Hebrews one now. I really enjoyed reading that, with all those evidences and Native American connections with the Middle East, of course some of his ideas are outdated, including the Beringia only theory (was it Ethan Smith who invented that one, or did he pick it up from some other 19th Century person).

Didn’t Einstein say, about “the hundred and one books written against” him, that if he were really wrong it would only take one book?

For 200 years anti-scholars have failed to find that fatal BoM flaw,they have searched high and low (or mainly just low), but always end up lending more support to the Book of Mormon instead. IF they had any valid evidence they wouldn’t have to resort to being less than honest and mocking, pretending to be LDS, forging documents, altering studies on word prints etc etc.

Here is something I said on another article to some of the same critics: When I sin and lose the Spirit, and weigh with fallible logic only, I still find no valid evidence against the BoM etc, and abundant valid evidences in support. A FEW: undeniable religious links; American, ME and Polynesian morphology; DNA; Native American temples and detailed Passion knowledge; reformed Egyptian; BoM MotherKing tree symbolism; impossibly accurate geography; steel; “machined” iron; Liahona; Pacal from BoM king; etc etc- everything from the names Alma and Isabel - to Nahom and Zarahemla, all supportive. : )

RE: JM: one of the bedrock claims of the Mormon Church to refute this theory is that Sidney Rigdon was not in Pittsburgh until 1820 or possibly 1822. It is because of this, that any claim of Sidney knowing Solomon or of his manuscript and then stealing it are dismissed as impossible.
The problem with this reasoning is that during that time, mail was not delivered to your house, you had to pick it up from the post office. Now if you did not collect your mail regularly, the post office would publish a list of people with mail waiting for them in the local newspaper. There exists such a list, dated Aug 1816, which contains not only Sidney Rigdon’s name but also Solomon Spalding’s, proving that they were both in Pittsburgh at the same time and their paths could have crossed. The Spalding enigma,2005, Letters Pg 136-137

Lane Myer:

Why do you assume that angels are no longer visiting mankind on Earth? I'm only curious becuase my assumptions are completely different.

Unlike Mormoncowboy's comments, I argue that "things are happening" all around us. My own family's history contians a rich tapestry of experiences where the veil between Earth and Heaven has momentarily parted. I'm grateful for those of my kin who have shared this knowledge with me to ponder and treasure up in my heart.

Personally I like the words of Nephi written in the BofM

11 And if they are not the words of Christ, judge ye—for Christ will show unto you, with power and great glory, that they are his words, at the last day; and you and I shall stand face to face before his bar; and ye shall know that I have been commanded of him to write these things, notwithstanding my weakness.

Some day we will all know the BofM is the word of Christ