@kibitzer: I've learned to just ignore LDS Lib. In our meeting
we had more old folks out who had no idea of what Hatch has voted for but have
bought into the power and Finance Chair arguments. When I cornered one Hatch
delegate to go over Hatch's votes on TARP, Dream ACt, NDAA, Patriot Act the
only response was, "We need Hatch in the chairman's seat and in there
for Romney".My reply was, right now those are 2 big long shots
and if those don't happen then what? No reply.Ignorance is
bliss in the Hatch camp.
@Mike Richards;Except for the part about your "normally not
mixing church and state" I agree with your comments.
I'm prayin' for obama to take the cup.
What does it take to be a delegate? Does one have to have read the
Constitution? Does one have to have an idea what he is doing? Does one have to
know what the candidate he supports has voted on? The answer to all
of the above is a definite "no".No one has to have read the
Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights that guarantees us all the right
to be told why we are accused, to have an attorney represent us and then to have
a trial. No one has to have read the voting record of anyone
running for office.No one has to have any idea what it means to be a
representative of the people of the precinct.All that has to be
known is that "Brother X" did a good job in his church calling, so he is
well suited to being a delegate, and, I really liked the way that "Sister
Y" handled the problem at camp last year, so I voted for her.Normally, I don't mix church and State, but I actually heard those
remarks at the caucus meeting last week.We get what we deserve.
LDS Liberal:"Ive read over several of your posts this
morning" QUOTEYou couldn't have. I only submitted two."you are out of touch, extremist, and on par for Authoritative
Totalitarianism at it’s finest". QUOTEI have not noticed
any open mindedness whatsoever in your typical offerings, yet I have never
attacked you. Your attack is extremely inaccurate. I totally oppose
authoritarian government and such government may have a beginning, I daresay, in
such thoughtless, sloppy, or suspicious caucuses such as that I outlined and
which have been occurring nationwide.My complaints were of either an
ignorance of, or contempt for, republican caucus rules and basic democratic
procedure, and the suspicious way in which the process was rushed and of
nominees who knew nothing of the other candidates. I certainly did
not criticize the LDS general authorities which seems to be implied by you.
They did get more people out, though not most of its members. They cannot
control how members vote. They always encourage members to take part but I feel
sure they want people to study the issues and to follow caucus rules.
kibitzerMagna, UTI’ve read over several of your posts this
morning.1.You seem to have a case of sour grapes.2.You
didn’t get your way, so now you want to disenfranchise other GOP voters
and accuse them of being uninformed, ignorant, and not worthy of showing up to
caucuses and voting.3.You believe your opinion somehow has more clout, and
therefore should mean more than others.4.You even go so far as to even
vaguely accuse the LDS Church for encouraging members to be involved, and not
telling them to vote YOUR way. For all intents, you are out of touch,
extremist, and on par for Authoritative Totalitarianism at it’s finest.
Hardly the Free, Constitutional Democratic Republic you so seemingly say
you so strongly support.Might I suggest you re-evaluate your
Our caucus was as follows.1. They did not read the party
platform.2. They did not always have a secret ballot, sometimes
merely a show of hands, And there was no verbal count of the votes which
werecounted out of sight, with only the winner declared.3.
The numbers did not tally with the number of voters.4. All nominees
turned out to be Hatch supporters only.5. The nominees were only
allowed one minute to speak and it was more than they needed. They seemed
to know nothing and had no convictions only KSL had told them to re-elect
Senator Hatch7. No one mentioned freedom, virtue, honesty or any
of thefounding principles of the nation. (things prominent in that party
platformthat as usual was not read out.The Church did
definitely get more out to the caucuses but these had no clueas to what
they were doing nor of any of the issues.They may have succeeded in
undoing the work of thosewho were dedicated to securing a free, virtuous
and constitutional government.
Seems to me that the gentlemen who promulgated this "separation of Church
and State" y'all refer to so much, always started their deliberations
with a prayer. Even today the Senate and House begin their deliberations with a
prayer, for all the good it does them. Additionally, isn't it Church and
State not Religion and State. What Church is it that prays in Congress? Or is
it a non-denominational prayer?
It would be more appropriate to have a few moments of silence so each attendee
could say what ever is in their heart to whomever they would say it to. Having
said that, this letter leaves strong clues as to what Utahns really believe
about those that would govern them and by golly they need to quit demonstrating
so much faith and expect more honest representation.
Nothing like the Utah Mormons' perverted mixing of Church and Political
Procuradorfiscal, it's called seperation of church and state..and it's why
you're not allowed to have crosses as memorials.
Re: ". . . leave your religious riituals [sic] home."Tell
you what -- you leave your religious rituals wherever you like. But don't
presume you have the right to tell others what they must or must not do with
After prayer? Pray before you come to a public meeting. Pray before you come,
bring a prayer in your heart, but leave your religious riituals home.