The real irony here is that by protesting proxy baptism for deceased Jews,
members of the Jewish community are unwittingly acknowledging the validity of
the ordinance. If the whole Joseph-Smith-gold-plates-restoration thing is a hoax
or a delusion, then what's the harm? LDS temple ordinances should be meaningless
to anyone who does not believe that Jesus is the Messiah and that Joseph Smith
is one of his prophets.Also ironic is thatÂat least from an LDS
perspectiveÂrather than letting Anne Frank accept or reject the ordinance
of baptism for herself, these protesters would presume to reject it on her
There are those that abuse the system though. I shared my gedcom file with a
lady in Canada, who knew that I am LDS. She looked through the file, and
submitted the names of my late brother and his late wife. When I asked her why
she had done that her reply was, "The work needed doing, and so I did it.
You should have done it quicker." I had to explain that my brother was
non-LDS, and had given ME permission to have the work done, but wanted
specifically one of my sons and one of my daughters to act as proxy for him and
his wife. We were waiting until my daughter was Endowed and married before
doing the work. When that time came, we couldn't fulfil my brother's wishes.
The lady also sealed my wife's grandparents, who had divorced in very
acrimonious circumstances. The Church took appropriate steps to prevent her
abusing the system further. SHE broke the rules, and not the Church.The above reasons are why the Church imposes rules, and why they occasionally
have to take action to prevent such liberties. It stops the abusers, full-stop,
not just Miss Radke.
To Ms. Radkey--perhaps you are familiar with the phrase:Give a man
(or in your case, a woman) enough rope......
The policy is clearly set up to prevent anyone from accessing and submitting
these names. If all people who try to submit these names are kicked off the
program, than who could possibly be submitting these names? Radkey's claims
that this is a coverup are ludicrous. All the more so since she lacks an
account so there is no way for the Church to target her.
Kishkumen, no, it is not completely impossible to prevent certain names from
being baptized or submitted. All one has to do is to slightly change the
parameters, such as the birth year by a single year. The name is then submitted
by the computer program, which is tricked. Only if someone happens to check each
and every name, would it be caught and even then you have humor error. If you
want the games to stop, then all the players need to stop as well so there is no
game being played.
IF Radke is indeed using members account to do this research then she is
dishonest and cheating and should not be considered a Christian. This is not
the behavior of a Christian. It is the antics of a hypocrite, whose soul desire
is to embarrass her former Church, nothing more, nothing less. She
is typical of many former LDS who seem hell bent to try and destroy anything the
Church does. They have completely lost the Spirit and now are bent on
destruction. Instead of showing others how Christ-like they are through their
actions, deeds and words they stoop to the lowest common denominator and use
trickery and deceit to accomplish their purpose. Each of us will reap our
rewards in Heaven or Hell and the same with Radke.
If accessing the system was through lying- then they are committing a wrong
themselves. If one desires to know if names remain accessible, they should
inquire of the church.Consider this analogy.A =
ChurchB = CriticsC = Those who lied to abuse the system.Person C plants names in persons A's home, against A's policy.Person A
says "I don't have those names in my house anymore, per person B's
request"Person B breaks into the home to search the home, rather than
ask permission to search.Person A was without guilt the entire time
and acted admirably to prevent abuse from Person C. Person B is now guilty of
the same lying and deception that C committed in the first place. You can't
justify a lie in order to prevent another person from lying. God doesn't justify
lies for us, Jews, Catholics, or anyone. That's a truth we all have clear
understanding and record of.The LDS Church answers legitimate and
honest requests, not liars who don't believe anyone is honest. Many think
anarchy, breaking law, breaking rules, etc. is justified. I certainly don't. But
one can't accept 'free society' and that doctrine of deceit simultaneously.
This almost sounds as if a woman was stalked by Godzilla and the wild turkey in
Utah freaks-out. This has only been going on for 10 years now, I guess they
took the hint. Mormon leaders have put up a virtual firewall in their massive
genealogical database to block out anyone who attempts to access the names of
hundreds of thousands of Holocaust victims the church has agreed not to
posthumously baptize. The move comes amid criticism that the Salt Lake
City-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints hasn't done enough to
live up to commitments to stop its members worldwide from performing the baptism
ritual on Holocaust victims and other notable Jews, how can they when it's done
at home not at the Church. The new system will immediately block church
members' access should they try to seek out names of Holocaust victims or other
notable figures that have been flagged as not suitable for proxy baptisms. The
church said the move is aimed at ending the practice. Did Jesus Christ say this
is ok to do in HIS Church?. It is "HE" that makes these rules.
Actually, nobody asked the church to limit access to people being able to view
their records. They were asked to stop baptizing certain individuals. It is
completely possible to prevent certain names from being baptized while still
allowing people to see who has received the LDS ordninances. I encourage the
LDS church to stop playing games in their press releases.
The mormon church lost big time on this issue. It will be hard to recover.
I would think there'd be a way to keep records open and searchable and just
label the files/names they're currently blocking with some designation that says
they're off-limits to submission/baptisms.
Radkey will simply find another non-monitored culture, social class or religon
to "protect" albeit, she'll still be doing it by stealing another's
if someone complains/criticizes about proxy baptisms why do you care?
Actually, Northbound, the only reason to block looking up Holocaust names is
to...keep people from looking up Holocaust names. It's not a conspiracy to shut
down Helen Radkey - she'll be naturally shut down when no one can break the
rules anymore and look up unrelated Holocaust Jews. The Church isn't trying to
hide some sinister Church policy to secretly allow this to go on. Occam's
Razor, Northbound.The real issue has been Helen Radkey abusing the
fact that in a Church where any member can freely submit a name for temple work,
there will always be someone willing to break the ChurchÂs longstanding
rules against submitting names that arenÂt their relatives. Supposedly,
Ms. RadkeyÂs motives were to Âprotect the beliefs of JewsÂ. But
now that the Church finally has worked out a system to centrally enforce its
longstanding rules that 99.999% of its members always followed anyway, now there
wonÂt BE anybody breaking the rules at all. Ms. Radkey should be overjoyed
Â all those baptisms she didnÂt like are being shut down for good!
But somehow no, she's still not happy. Hmm...
washcomomYou said "She used friends' accesses to get in. Basically,
isn't that identity theft? Talk about hypocrisy." Its even worse than that.
This comes from an article in the Washington Post on her"In 2006 and
2009, the library disciplined her for sneaking onto computers used by Mormons
who had not logged off their terminals and then spending hours using their
accounts to dig through the private church records"
This whole thing appears suspicious on Radkey's part. She is gettin into the
system using someone elses account so that she can blow the whistle on the LDS
Church. If she can get in on someone elses account, can't she also submit names
on that account to make the LDS Church look bad? So now that she can't get in
she is upset, hmmm, sounds very suspicious of her.
Perhaps she feels targeted because the Church is trying to fix and avoid the
problem (members submitting names of Holocaust victims, Catholic Saints and
famous people who are not family) that she spends her time trying to blow the
whistle on. In doing so, they are messing with her goals.I read in
the Trib that she was researching Mitt Romney's family history when she
discovered it. Is HE a family member of hers? Hmmmm....
Another article about this stated that Radkey was accessing the site using other
people's names and passwords. And SHE is claiming the LDS Church is targeting
HER by blocking her access to names that shouldn't be accessed anyway? Now that
"If she, or anyone else, is misusing a Church member's identity to search
for Holocaust names, then the system is set up to block those kinds of
activities,"That's EXACTLY what she did and was reported in the
SLTribune. She used friends' accesses to get in. Basically, isn't that identity
theft? Talk about hypocrisy.
Poetic justice--exactly right, windsor.Maybe Radkey is complaining
because her goal all along wasn't to stop baptisms for the dead on behalf of
Holocaust victims; it was to make the LDS Church look bad.
@northboundax: the problem remains however, that IF the whistleblower is the
abuser, how does one prevent continued abuse? The Church is damned either way.
At least with the new policy, those who abuse in an effort to defame the Church,
will have a greater task to meet their goals.
Bro. Purdy is being a little disingenuous about the situation. Yes, the
safeguards against submission are exactly what the church was asked to do, but
the blocking of access to lookup of certain names is a very different thing.
There is no reason to do that except to keep busy-bodies/whistle-blowers
(whichever way one wants to view it) from having access to information about
what has been done.
Let Radkey have her say. And ignore her. It is not worth the
point-counter-point. Besides, there is no answer the church can ever give that
will ever satisfy her.
For any group to take so much offense at an effort that means them no harm and
in reality does no harm, is taking offense needlessly. Such people ought to
focus on real enemies or on getting on with their life.When Jews are
targeted I am with them. But this is crying wolf when their is no wolf.
Obviously there are those who are set in disagreement. But such people would do
well to re-examine their motives and this entire situation.
Proxy baptisms do not mean anything to absolutely anyone except members of the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including Jewish people. Why
should they care? The attention this is getting from certain groups is nothing
more than an attempt to embarrass the church.
Number one: Why is the press and the Church giving so much attention to this
lady who sounds crazy! This is from the news article in the Washington Post
where she sounds so nuts!Number 2-By her own admissions she skulks around
the Family History Library watching other patrons and waiting for them to not
log out correctly then she accesses their log in to look up things she knows she
is not suppose to. Isn't this considered hacking and illegal? Can't they take
out a restraining order to keep her out because of her questionable practices?
article--Radkey said that the LDS Church...are tracking those who access this
data, and locking out those, like myself..."If she, or anyone else, is
misusing a Church member's identity to search for Holocaust names, then the
system is set up to block those kinds of activities," Purdy said"Ah, now that is poetic justice.