utahsnow, I follow the logic of your theory, but like I said, I'm gonna have to
go ahead and respectfully disagree. I think a lot of people falsely assume that
employees at a church sponsored school live pious, monastic lives in sackcloth
and ash (exaggerating, of course), while these "worldly" state
universities are bathing in dough. Not so in this case. Utah is getting better
with the new conference affiliation, but unfortunately does not quite have the
pockets BYU does right now. Frankly, that's all that matters right now. Almost
anybody can handle leading a certain public lifestyle for the right amount of
compensation. (And BYU fans, don't extrapolate this as me saying BYU's coaches
are wolves in sheep's clothing, because I'm not. I believe Rose and Mendenhall
are stand-up guys, but they're not doing their jobs just for the blessings, they
are undoubtedly very comfortably paid.)
StGtoSLCImagine that BYU and Utah for whatever reason had to go out and
find new coaches for basketball and football this year. With the philosophy at
BYU vs. that at the U, each school would have a signficantly different approach.
Utah could court coaches from all walks of life and hundreds of Universities.
BYU would have a short list of options for its replacements in comparison. In
general, Utah would end up with 'higher rated' coaches overall. Additionally,
here is where we disagree, Utah would be offering more money in general. I'm
not talking about the athletics budget, I'm talking about staff compensation. I
think most people agree with that. This is a big deal to college coaches.Then these coaches head out to recruit. Once again, significantly
smaller recruiting pool. May have something to do with the part where they
say..."Oh yeah, no drinking, no sex, read this honor code, and you gotta
take our Book of Mormon class." So, who do you think should
theoretically get 'better' coaches/athletes overall? And thus field better
teams? (theoretically)These reasons are in big part why I cheer for
BYU. Success under these conditions is highly impressive and underrecognized.
utahsnow, as a responsible Ute, I have to respectfully disagree with you on a
few of those accounts. As it stands now, BYU appears to have a much larger
budget and payroll (can't be proven, as private schools don't disclose that
info), although Utah is closing the gap. And the budget is not the only thing
that attracts a coaching candidate to a school; the current state of the program
has a good deal to do with it as well. BYU's is currently very stable; Utah's,
sadly, is presently not. Jury may still be out for the next couple years, but
let's hope we're on the right track.Have to laugh at SnackPAC,
though. Every time I visit friends in Provo, and experience the campus
"life," I can't wait to get back to Salt Lake. Let's just say... it's
polarizing. Some people enjoy it. Everyone else wonders "What is the deal
with this place?"
@Snack PAC and DUCKHUNTER.I am a lifetimer BYU fan...football season
ticket holder for 30 years. I didn't say K was in a better coach
than Rose...What I said was Utah offers more money to its coaches and staff AND
when they go for a hire, they have a much larger pool of suiters than BYU. This
gives them an ADVANTAGE over BYU when hiring...at least on paper. Do you really
disagree with that? Did you hear how many options Utah had for the OC position
(50+ including gary crowton) And Duck---I also did not say that Utah
has better athletes than BYU, what I said was theoretically Utah SHOULD have
better athletes because of their recruiting advantage...Everything I
said was just my opinion, I realize there are BYU fans who disagree with me, I'm
ok with that. Go ahead and re-read my original post and maybe you will see
where I'm coming from. you may have to skip the first section since I'm sure
you can't imagine that any BYU fan might have a nice thing to say about the
Hey Utes, listen to your own center (Washburn) who says: ÂAnd whoÂs
going to remember except that we got the ÂLÂ? Because thatÂs all
that matters.ÂHistory means nothing. How many Ws and Ls do you
utahsnowOnly a delusional Utah fan would even pretend that coach
small k is even in the same class as Coach Rose.btw, you've
obviously haven't even attended the U; Utah is a commuter school, it has no
Sorry, 3 AND 7. My mental typo gave the cougs more credit than they actually
Ah, Ducky. It seems he loves to make grand statements that ridicule the Utes,
yet are devoid of truth; one being the 40+ point-blowout-loss-comparison, as
motorbike has shown. But Ducky can't help himself, throwing out another
fact-challenged statement: "why does BYU have such a decided head to
head advantage on the field . . ."Surely he didn't mean the
football field, as the blue team is 3 of 7, head-to-head, in the last 10
Enough with bring up history. Where do we live and where will we live. We live
in the present and will live in the future. That is all that is relevant. So
ask yourself, where are you today?
Seriously I don't understand why this has become a competition of who has had
the worst team. All the breakdowns are great but it is what it is - byu won 1
game and Utah has won 6. I don't think we need to look much deeper than that.
They are both horrible records and I'm sure will be the low points of each
program. As good as byu's basketball team has been the last few
years, you can't get past the fact that they have only won 3 NCAA games in the
past 30 years. Byu does own the advantage in the head to head match up between
the Utes but that is the only advantage that they have over Utah when it comes
to the two schools basketball history.Even with the handful of bad
years the Utes have had recently, they are still one of the nations winningest
programs in NCAA history. The cougs are still a bubble team for
this years tournament, they went out in the second round of their conference
tournament and came in 3rd place in a conference ranked below the PAC12 - and
the PAC 12 had its worst year in a long time.
To anyone who read Duckhunter's comment and took it literally (as he meant
it)He wrote, "BYU didn't suffer any 40+ point losses either
while utah has multiples of them to worse competition."_______Now the truth -Utah 2011-12 worst losses:46 @
Oregon - a bubble ncaa tourney team playing at it's peak40 @
Colorado - a 19-11 team w a small shot at making the ncaa tourney - NIT for
sure.36 @ Cal - Will be in the ncaa tourney next week31
at Home to Cal State Fullerton - Best year in ages at 21-8 2nd in conference and
could still win their tourney and make the ncaa tournament.30 @
Fresno St - Utah's worst loss ... not a good team at 13-19__________BYU 1996-97 worst losses:51 @ Washington - Yes that's 11
more than 40. 17-11 record NIT first round loss.42 at home to New
Mexico - 25-8 won one game in the ncaa tourney - good team.42 @ New
Mexico - Same point difference, same team, different day.40 @ TCU -
Won one game in the NIT tourney.36 @ Utah - The best team on their
schedule ... went to the Elite 8.______________For the record
that's 3 "40+ point losses" for BYU and 1 for Utah.If you want to
include the number 40 it goes to 4 for BYU and 2 for Utah.FACTS.
@utahsnowSo if we were to accept your false premise then we must
accept that utah constantly underachieves, fails really, in almost every single
sport in comparison to BYU. Seeing as though BYU routinely beats utah in far
more sports than utah beats BYU, and BYU wins far more conference championships
than utah ever does, it is actually an embarrassingly, for utah, wide spread,
that BYU has far more All Americans, far more national award winners, far more
college hall of famers, and far more of almost everything that makes for a top
to bottom quality overall athletic program.I'm no big fan of the
"Deseret 1st Duel" but it does give us a very accurate breakdown of
which school dominates the other in overall athletic competition.*hint* It isn't the school you wish it was. LOL!And of course that
brings us to your claims of superior coaching, recruiting and finances. If true
then why does BYU have such a decided head to head advantage on the field,
court, gym, pool and track?It would seem to me that superior
recruits and coaches would win more often. Then there's the unfortunate fact
BYU's athletic budget is 50% bigger.LOL!
Even though I'm a cougar fan first, I still root for all teams from Utah. I
think that coach Larry is doing a great job and hope he's able to bring Utah
back to the level of past teams.
Those of you claiming BYU's 96-97 schedule was so much harder ... consider the
facts:____________BYU played 3 opponents that were ranked at
one point or another - 6 actual games ... Utah, New Mexico and Tulsa.Utah also played 3 opponents ranked at one point or another - 5 actual games
... Arizona, Cal and Harvard.Little doubt that Utah and New Mexico
(not Tulsa) were stronger that year than Arizona, Cal and Harvard.Win - BYU____________BYU opponents who went to the NCAA
Tourney - 5Utah opponents going to the NCAA Tourney - 3 to 6 (BYU, Weber
St and Oregon TBD)Win - probably end up a tie.____________BYU opponent tourney wins - 5 wins (Utah with 3 of them)Utah
opponent tourney wins - tbd.Win - Probably will go to BYU but only
due to one opponent - Utah.____________BYU's average score -
Opponent 79 BYU 59 - 20 point margin.Utah's average score - Opponent 70
Utah 56 - 14 point margin.Win - Utah____________BYU top 5 losses - 51, 42, 42, 40, 36Utah top 5 losses - 46, 40, 36, 31,
30Win - Utah (hard to call that a win)____________In the end it's looks pretty much like a tie and the strength of opponents
looks very similar.However, one last stat, and this is the one that
matters the most: Utah 6 BYU 1BYU clearly owns the
distinction of worst season between two great overall programs.
In spite of the tail spin of Utah basketball these past few years there is good
reason to be optimistic. Coach K. seems to be a true professional. He's got
the support from the AD and an excellent environment to thrive.I
have to add, comparing BYU and Utah in sports is natural behavior but I think
its much like comparing apples and oranges. Recruiting:-Utah
has a vast sea of athletes in their pool, including a strong draw on LDS
kids.-BYU picks first from LDS kids and hopes to get lucky with a few
decent 'non-denominational' athletes Advantage: UtahCoaching:see Recruiting... Advantage UtahMoney:Difficult thing to sift through, but the key is where its spent. Its
generally accepted that Utah pays their coaches/staff better if not much better
than BYU (but nobody really knows) Advantage UtahCampus
life:SLC vs Provo??? get real. Advantage UtahIMO BYU
does more with less...essentially playing with one hand tied behind its back.
Utah never has any excuse to lose to BYU in any sport...ever.There
are many reasons to love both schools, but you gotta look a bit deeper when
comparing wins and losses.
Gotta love ETB! I love the fact that Coach K has been able to keep a
level head through this year. Helps that he has assistants like Tommy Connor and
the rest though. They are all successful on different levels and with the right
talent, will take the U back to where they were. We don't need to
remind the detractors of where that was, they already know.It IS
coming. Keep your heads up Utes!
Haha. Check out are history in the NCAAs. We our so much better than utah ever
will be. When have they ever had a NBA player as good as Jimmer?
Along with many others, I have said this before, Krystkowiak has proven he can
coach. The question is can he recruit? The downfall of Utah basketball has
been the inability to bring guys into the program that fit the system the
coaches wanted. Recruiting will save or further plumet this program into the
depths of dispair
I like and admire Coach Krystko.The silly BYU vs Utah fans on here?
Not so much.
It wouldn't be a Utah basketball article without a flood of Utah fans trying to
deflect the topic to anything EXCEPT Utah basketball.Utah is none
and done for the last seven years COMBINED and your lone NCAA appearance
resulted in a humiliating loss to a 12th seed.Keep living in the
past if it makes you feel better about that trainwreck on the hill.
It wouldn't be a Utah article without a flood of byu fans commenting. I'm not sure what this article has to do with slump comarisons but whatever
makes you feel better. As a far as Utah being in a "several year"
slump, they were conference champions 3 years ago and won the MWC tournament.
The cougs have won 3 NCAA tournament games in 30 years - to me that is a bit
more of a "slump". Sure they are better this year but they still may not
even make the tournament. The Utes have had some bad years with a
number of coaching changes but even through those times, they had the number 1
pick in the NBA draft - oh yeah that was the same year we had the first pick in
the NFL draft too - only college team to do that by the way. So pile
on while you can byu fans
In comparing BYU's 1996-97' 1 win season to this years 6-24 Ute team, BYU had a
much tougher schedule and will play 6 fewer games (-5 at this point with PAC
Tournament game pending and barring an Miracle for the Almighty the Utes win)
and they had fewer home games, plus the 96-97 WAC was far better than this years
PAC12 Conference. In the 96-97' preseason BYU played: Cal
St.-Fullerton, Washington, Pacific, Weber St., Utah St, Boise St, Houston,
Georgia and Penn State. Of those 9 games, BYU had only 5 home games and they had
4 true away games with no neutral site games.In this years preseason
Utah played: San Diego Christian, Boise St, Montana St, Harvard, Massachusetts,
UNC Asheville, Fresno St, CSU Fullerton, BYU, Idaho St, Portland and Weber St.
Of those 12 games 7 of them were at home, 2 were on neutral courts and only 3
were true away games. If the 1996-97' BYU team played against this
years Ute schedule they would have won more than 6 games!!!
UfanBYU only three losing seasons during their slump:1998-99 - 12-161997-98 - 9-211996-97 - 1-251995-96 -
15-131996 wasn't all that great, but at least it wasn't a losing
i thought this article was about the U. Why all the comments and comparisons
Good point Ufan. What you failed to mention, however, is that Utah's slump is
not yet over, although that could change next year (or not).
Slumping FactsBYU's slump was much steeper, but much shorter.Utah's slump has been shallower, but much longer.BYU's slump
lasted four years (112 games), beginning after finishing 22-10 in 1995 and
ending after finishing 22-11 in 2000.During BYU's slump, the Cougars had
four losing seasons and were 37-75 (33%) overall.1999-00 - 22-111998-99 - 12-161997-98 - 9-211996-97 - 1-251995-96 -
15-131994-95 - 22-10Utah's slump has lasted seven years (219
games), so far, beginning after finishing 29-6 in 2005 and continuing for who
knows how much longer.During their slump, the Utes have had five losing
seasons and have been 101-118 (46%).2011-12 - 6-242010-11 -
13-182009-10 - 14-172008-09 - 24-102007-08 - 18-152006-07 - 11-192005-06 - 14-152004-05 - 29-6Frankly,
I'd much have had BYU's slump than this on-going nightmare of musical coaches
Coach has about a $million$ reasons to "maintain his resolve". Heck, if
I made as much as he does I would milk it for all it's worth as well.Resolve is one thing, winning is a totally different story.
I like what coach K is doing with this program. There is no quick fix to the
problems but it has to be built up from scratch.He has proven this
year that he can keep players motivated to play and to continue to work hard.
They could have given up on this season a long time ago.I'm excited
to see what he and his staff can do with more talented players coming next year.
I know it will take a few years to get it turned around but hopefully next year
they will be a lot more competitive.
Larry was in my third grade elementary class in Gt Falls MT. He was a foot
taller than everyone in the class. Then he moved and I moved to different
(smaller) towns and my jr high bball team played against his. They killed us
every time we met and it was primarily due to Larry. I was glad to see he made
it to the NBA. (Made the losses in jr high a bit easier.) '-) I wish him the
best with the Utes...except when they play BYU.
@gdogUh, I suppose if you are basing "worst evers" on wins
and losses then BYU's 1 win season was worse. But "far worse"? Hardly.
utah has played more games, so more opportunities to win. utah has played a far
easier schedule as well. BYU did not play, and lose to, any D2 teams nor was the
conference BYU played in as awful as the current pac12.Of course BYU
didn't suffer any 40+ point losses either while utah has multiples of them to
worse competition. BYU can't even come close to matching utah's current 7 year,
and counting, run of futility. And then BYU actually had players on that team
that amounted to something and became decent players whereas no one on utah's
active roster this year is any good at all and will ever amount to anything. So "far worse"? Hardly. We can make a pretty good argument that
this utah team is the worst college basketball team in the history of the state.
@cougarblueYou said what I said at the end of my last paragraph. My
comment was from a Ute perspective, and yours a cougar one. Yes Utah
has struggled much lately. I am just saying things will turn to my my fellow
fans while pointing out history comparisons. It is true that BYU's worst year
was by far worse than Utah's worst year. Again, Utah has still been down for a
number of years.Now the success comparison. Utah has been to the
championship game twice, the final four three times, the elite 8 four times, and
the sweet sixteen so many times I can't count. Utah missed the NCAA tournament
onlt twice in the Majerus era. And they lost only once in the first round out of
thirteen times.BYU on the other hand has won only 3 tournament games
in 30 years.
@CougarBlueRun along now and watch "Amazing" lest you soon
forget how far your team advanced and how much it achieved at the pinnacle of
the program while lead by a arguably your best player in history. I'll tell you
how it ends; A Sweet 16 loss. What a simply "Amazing" season preceded by
runs of 1st round tournament losses. Amazing.
BYU had one bad year and you dare to compare it to Utah miserable seasons, how
funny. How many will transfer out this year?
Well said MC Ute. At this point what other options are there? Utah will be back.
Utah has NEVER had a down point like this in it's basketball
history. Three years in a row have been rock bottom. Make that 5 of the last 7
years of struggle overall. However, remember the end of the Roger
Reid era in Provo, and the Tony Ingle coached season where BYU won one game.
Utah was going to the final four at the time.So you see Ute fans who
are obsessed with BYU comparisons, Utah's best years have consistently beat out
BYU's best years. And Utah's worst years have not been as bad as BYU's worst
years. The latter is a little cloudy because Utah's bad run has extended for a
number of years now. So I can't make the consistency argument there. Still, be
supportive Ute fans. The patience part is hard in sports and sometimes not a
good thing. However, now is the time for being patient as well.
I really enjoyed this piece on the process associated with building from the
ground up. Krystko has done a great job instilling a culture that we have not
seen in quite some time and as Hill said, "anyone who knows basketball can
see this team has improved."Better days are ahead. I can't wait!
Stay positive coach and team and especially the fans. Progress was made this
year and things can only get better. Go UTES!!!