I sincerely hope that the Deseret News soon implements a policy to make people
use their real names. I have noticed that the most hateful comments come from
people who are not using their names.
@Moontan;I was referencing this: "And it isn't said from an
attitude of exclusiveness: anybody can join."(last
"comment", not necessarily "last sentence")
No irony present, Ranch, but I understand your confusion. Sorry. Analogies can
be tricky, I guess. Anyway, acknowledging the reality of the practice mentioned
in the last sentence doesn't make one a practitioner of it. It is simply a
recognition of something one prefers not to do. If I would have written
"We're not drug dealers" would you think me a drug dealer?
@Moontan;I think you missed the irony of your last comment.
I don't think a LDS saying ours is the only true Church is necessarily being
disrespectful to non-members, any more than saying 'our form of democratic
government is better than communism' is being disrespectful to the Chinese. It's
a statement of belief about our Church, not a disparaging remark about other
Churches. And it isn't said from an attitude of exclusiveness: anybody can join.
We're not Victorian era aristocrats looking down our noses at commoners.
"A voice of Reason, The LDS Church publishes its beliefs openly, peacefully,
and respectfully rather than attacking others?"Have to agree
with Sharrona. A Voice Of Reason publishes his beliefs openly, peacefully, and
respectfully which I think everyone on here appreciates. The LDS Church,
however, hasn't always done this. Fundamentally it doesn't ... it's the only
true church. How is it respectful to tell the world their beliefs
are false because LDS is the only true church?
RE: A voice of Reason, The LDS Church publishes its beliefs openly, peacefully,
and respectfully rather than attacking others?JS said.Â¦all
their creeds were an abomination in my sight; that those professors were
corrupt. Joseph Smith History. Brigham Young, The Christian world
so-called, are heathen as to the knowledge of the salvation of God(JoD 8:171.
A voice of Reason, The LDS Church publishes its beliefs openly, peacefully, and
respectfully rather than attacking others?JS said,Â¦all their
creeds were an abomination in my sight; that those professors were corrupt.
Joseph Smith History. Brigham Young said, The Christian world so-called,
are heathen as to the knowledge of the salvation of God(JoD 8:171.
VoR says:The LDS Church publishes its beliefs openly, peacefully,
and respectfully rather than attacking others. ---(From: Baehr
vs. Lewin trial )In 1995, ... Church leadership identified the type
of committee they wanted to create to stop same-sex marriage in Hawaii, and they
set it up....the Mormon Church established their front group in
Hawaii to pass a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage in that state
after the Hawaii Supreme Court heard the case. The Mormon Church established its
front group called HawaiiÂs Future Today (HFT) in the fall of 1995, 3 years
before the election to pass a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage
in Hawaii.They hired lobbyists, consultants, campaign managers,
attorneys and had one very high ranking Mormon on the Board, Jack Hoag, the
recently retired Chairman of the Church-owned First Hawaiian Bank. They were
able to get money into HawaiiÂs Future Today (HFT) that would go
unreported. These actions hid their direct involvement while creating a
coalition to lead the effort.Masks or not?
There are all types of masks. I see lobbying with no transparency as a form of a
mask. Deals made in private are masks. It seems we all wear the at
@voice of reason I take issue with your claims. unfortunately that is
about all the DN will allow me to say on the issue but have a nice night.
@ThomasJefferson ... You say "There is still a pervasive element of bigotry
and discrimination among many members of the LDS faith" (which I don't think
anyone could possibly claim with any degree of authority) and you categorize an
entire group of people as the 'misinformed minority'. You go on to imply that
Marines are vulgar, and Gonzaga fans make evil comments. But then you quote the
passage "judge not, lest ye be judged". That dog just won't
hunt, sir. As far as disparaging views of minorities contained in
racial jokes, research the views on race held by your namesake.
@voice of reason the court decisions surrounding the LDS church and its
shell organizations claims about gay marriage and findings by various government
agencies concerning the LDS churches lack of disclosures would say otherwise.
sorry that last comment was to voice of reason.
Phranc,The LDS Church publishes its beliefs openly, peacefully, and
respectfully rather than attacking others. We support respectful discourse
always. The masked hateful attacks responding to our beliefs regarding marriage
stands completely in contrast to our respectfully voicing our views in the
democracy we have equal rights to govern in.-------Bill
in Nebraska,First- Thanks for the response on the other article. I
didn't think you refereed to my comment, just cautiously clarifying.Second- "hiding behind his name protects him, yet it really is a measure
to hide himself from what he calls ridicule."I agree. In
principle it serves to insulate oneself from public shame or support. It is
hiding from being open and honest. Why? Because I have myself. My feelings
recently changed regarding this, and this article solidified my decision. I will
even be changing my screen name soon because of this.Third- "I
may disagree with Harry but there is one thing I respect and that is he is still
as faithful as ever."This is simply a fantastic statement. I
don't agree with him on many things, but I find the disrespect he receives from
some members even less agreeable for that very reason.
Why do we have secret ballots? Why do we insist on "the mask of
anonymity" when we express our political choices as electors?Well, because history shows that a lot of people who make their livelihoods
from controlling governments, defend their livelihoods by intimidating people
against turning them out. LDS members who contributed to Proposition 8 in
California were often naively unaware that their opposition considers politics
the continuation of war by other means. If you stand up to them, they will try
to make your life as miserable as possible. If Elder Cook is
calling us to be ready to accept those consequences of standing up to the truth,
fine. TheProudDuck will disappear, and the man behind it will give his name.
But I'm aways leery of unilateral disarmament, since the people who want us to
stand up fully exposed to their intimidation have no intention of similarly
I do think there are times when 'masks' can be used to do things which are cruel
and wrong. I personally condemn behavior such as bullying or threats under such
maska. Hopefully we will limit such behavior in ourselves or others. However there are many situations where masks can greatly aid in our ability
to do much good. There are many tip lines, for example, that mask informants in
order to uncover inappropriate or unlawful behavior. Anonymity has also been
the means of expressing great ideas. Thomas Paine wrote the pamphlet Common
Sense under the mask of anonymity. Many, including some of the founding
fathers, have insisted without that publication the rally for America's
independence would have died.I think 'masks' can be a matter of
concern and certainly hiding our behavior can be wrong and inappropriate.
However I think sharing our ideas and knowledge in a way that mitigates social
consequences in some circumstances can often facilitate an open exchange that
enhances our ability to uncover truth.
Is it fear that keeps one from stating who they are or is it just that they
refuse to acknowledge themselves and hide behind the mask. I listened to the
talk and I disagree with Dennis whole heartedly. Basically the majority of
society show respect for someone's differing points of view. However, there are
those who for some reason refuse to show themselves for who they really are.Look at who he said throughout history wore masks, KKK members, those
who mobbed, persecuted and murdered many helpless Mormons in Missouri and Ohio.
Did he miss it at all? No what he refused to acknowledge is those who think
fear is something they can put out to others. LDS Liberal says that hiding
behind his name protects him, yet it really is a measure to hide himself from
what he calls ridicule. What it really amounts to is that he professes
somethings that goes against even the democratic stallwarts of Harry Reid and
others. I may disagree with Harry but there is one thing I respect and that is
he is still as faithful as ever. How about others who hide behind Animity for
nothing more than to shut out the world.
But I live in Utah, and I'm not a Republican.I get enough
verbal threats as is, and I fear the conservatives AM radio mobs will
torch my house, and my children will no longer have any friends.
good advice for the LDS church itself.... National organization for marriage
ring any bells?
Great message. I need to do better.
I hope the post by Thomas Jefferson is his real name. It would be kind of funny
if it were not, as Elder Cook did make mention that many people mask up on these
kinds of websites. And Dennis of Harwich MA does make an important point.
Today there are so many people out there who want to destroy a person for
speaking something that they may find insulting or disagree with. I have always
taken the "sticks and stones" approach to speech, but in todays PC
society that no longer applies. As some have said, the best counter to speech
you don't agree with is more free speech, not censorship. But today you can
lose your job or get kicked out of college for saying the wrong thing. I think
if there is any "slippery slope" regarding our 1st Amendment rights, we
may be seeing it with the PC speech codes. Plus, isn't it better for a person
to reveal who they really are by the things they say rather than force them to
hide behind some mask?
We live in a society where you can't afford to not wear a mask. Too many will
take advantage of you and literally destroy your life. The old adage of
"holding your cards close to your vest" has never been more true. It's
not a matter of wearing a mask, but why. Elder Cook missed the boat on this
"Mr. Foxman's counsel was to stress the importance of people avoiding masks
that hide their true identity," Elder Cook said.--- This is good
advice, Elder Cook. Perhaps the LDS Church should follow it and stop hiding
behind "front organizations" in their fight against the rights of GLBT
American Citizens."It is common today to hide one's identity
when writing hateful, vitriolic, bigoted communications anonymously online. Some
refer to it as flaming."--- Is it any different to hide your
identity behind organizations like NOM and the like? Letting others do your
dirty work isn't any better.Yes, my comment is posted anonymously;
for very good reason.