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Comments about ‘The war on boys: Young men losing ground in education, emotional health and jobs’

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Published: Sunday, Feb. 19 2012 11:00 p.m. MST

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no fit in SG
St.George, Utah

Since this is the DN comment site, and we are in Utah... we already know what many will state as the answer for this young man.......Religion, and the LDS brand.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'The war on boys: young men losing ground in education, emotional health and jobs' - title

A 'war' on something typically implies that there is a focused effort, to destroy said thing or person.

What is 'attacking' boys?

Answer? Nothing. They are slipping in education and emotional support. But NOT due to any focused effort any one person, or group.

I realize the Deseret News needs to sell papers but all this 'war' mongering is now becoming an example of fiction.

Boys are failing in education?

HELP them!

But they are not the target of some perceived agenda.

Demisana
South Jordan, UT

What is 'attacking' boys?

Every decision that results in dads being estranged from their sons. Including single women deciding to have children without a father, mothers deciding to divorce and trumping up fake abuse allegations to keep her annoying ex out of her and her children's lives, courts who overwhelmingly favor mothers over fathers, even when there are no abuse concerns, gay partners who decide to have children and deprive the child of the other gender, people who have children out of wedlock with no concern for the stability of their child's life...

It's not one thing - the family, and every member of it, are under attack by society, by Hollywood, by government welfare encouraging dependency instead of encouraging people to stand on their own feet (as such people are far more likely to be married and stay married).

Laura Ann
Layton, UT

Well said, Demisana. Although I now live in Utah, I was born and raised in California. I saw these problems are a teacher. So sad. I remember one child who was truly brilliant and always in trouble crying because his Daddy wasn't at a program we did. It broke my heart. I come from a divorced family. Fortunately, my mother was able to find a good man to marry me who eventually adopted me after my birth father abandoned me. I'll never forget that day he told me I was smart. I went from getting Cs and Bs to straight As. Children deserve a mother and a father. It makes all the difference. I saw it as a teacher so many times. Let's protect and encourage traditional marriage.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

"Q: As you know, fewer young men are going to college. Do you think affirmative action is the answer to it?

A: I think it starts before that. I think we need to examine the way we're teaching children from elementary school. Are we asking boys to sit still when they really want to jump around? Is it because boys have fewer and fewer role models because such a large percentage of elementary teachers are women? I suspect those are the reasons.

If we can figure out ways to help address the education of boys that is specific to boys not denying girls, of course maybe they will be able to continue through school and be able to get good jobs."
(Laura Bush 2005)

The U.S. has a higher percentage of single parent families than many other industrialized countries. It is very difficult to be a parent, let alone a single parent, and meet all the needs of children. I don't think it is much about the sex of the parent as it is about the child having 2 involved, emotionally, physically and financially supportive parents.

Kathy.
Iowa, Iowa

All of the studies all over the world show that a child does best with their in tact supportive biological family.

The fast track to poverty and bad outcomes is single women having children.

The fast track to abuse is an biologically unrelated male in the home.

Like it or not the overwhelming evidence is that children that live in a home with a the same gender significant other to their parent have very high rates of all kinds of abuse.

These studies come from all over the world, even where same gender marriage and the homosexual lifestyle has been accepted for years.

The elephant in the room is that children need parents of both genders to be involved in a positive way in their lives.

DN Subscriber
Cottonwood Heights, UT

For too long we have followed the liberal prescriptions to cure our ills, and only made them worse. Much worse.

Destruction of the family is the core problem: Praise of single-parenthood, instead of its condemnation. Emasculation of male roles and play so that no one's feelings are hurt and no winners or losers. The insane urge to make little boys play with dolls instead of toy guns, and never do anything the least bit dangerous. The "feminist" idiotology. Worst is the all encompassing liberal "welfare plantation" which rewards dependency and discourages self reliance and achievement.

Television has not had a responsible father figure since Bill Cosby. Instead men are portrayed as useless buffoons. Our kids have paid attention, and now we are surprised?

There need to be consequences for good and bad choices (and applause for daring to judgmentally label them as such!)

Stay in school, don't have sex until you get married, and don't get married until you are able to support a family. Don't go into debt.

Simple rules, and with almost universal good results for all who follow them. And, those who don't inevitably end up failing in many ways... and blaming others.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Re:DN Subscriber

Liberal here, parent of 3 boys.
There is the Conservative media rant from people like, SINGLE-parent Laura Ingraham, Limbaugh and others who blame all the ills of the world on Liberals with sweeping generalizations, which then get repeated in posts such as yours.

I can't recall single parenthood being praised. Maybe you are confused with the praise heaped upon a single-parent, who overcame tremendous challenges to succeed. Big difference.

I don't think it was "liberal" policy that has, in some cases created a more permissive parenting style. I think it was a rejection of the shaming, autocratic style many of us grew up with that some parents took too far the other way.

I dont know of anybody that "made" their little boys play with dolls. My sons and their friends all did the typical boy things; sports, paintball and BB guns included. Also music lessons. Liberals believe every capable adult should get a good education which leads to decent jobs. We also believe in being self-reliant, but also helping those who fall short. Welfare was reformed by Republicans and Clinton in the 90's. Do Republicans have more ideas? Let's hear them.

DeltaFoxtrot
West Valley, UT

This is a case of affirmative action gone too far. Make programs to bolster one segment of the population and let them run until that segment has passed the others. Then you have to make programs to better the other segments. The cycle goes on and on.

sashabill
Morgan Hill, CA

To "no fit in SG," I am an LDS single father, having raised my two children over most of 20 years. The "LDS brand" was an essential guiding factor in my life - helping me to give my children a sense of value, moral standards, purpose in life, self esteem, personal responsibility, and a basic healthy concept of who they are. This included much-appreciated help from fellow LDS ward members in terms of babysitting my children, interacting with them, and setting positive examples for them. So, is there something wrong with that??

very concerned
Sandy, UT

Yes, there is a *war* on boys, girls, and all God's children, and the enemy is Satan. He will do anything he can to destroy current and future families.

Yes, we should help the boys. But how? Do we strengthen the home? Do we encourage fathers and mothers in their roles as parents?

Or do we bypass the parent and go for direct public, government programs and policies. As much good as some organizations do in their direct support of children, I would submit that more will be accomplished by supporting and encouraging the God-given role of a biological, differently-gendered set of parents. That kind of help would yield more, longer-lasting, and better results.

cjb
Bountiful, UT

It is possible to excite some people about math and math related fields, but that doesn't come about by begging them to go into a particular field.

It comes about by taking math classes where students are led to the point where they can solve interesting problems.

This is why most people choose engineering. They love what they are being taught in math and physics in high school and want to continue on.

So long as math in our secondary schools is dumbed down, interesting problems and a sense of accomplishment will be hard to come by. Many teachers are aware of the damage that has been done to math education. Others reflexively deny there is a problem. This mostly includes administrators in the school districts and professors of math education (not mathematics) in the universities.

Might I suggest a return to proof based geometry, at the honors level for students who desire it. This way math classes taught subsequently don't have to be taught at a lower level.

Challenging math is interesting math. Those people who have the capacity to appreciate math, will not do so if they are learning only dumbed down math.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

"In my 19 years, not once have I ever been confronted by an individual who realized independently that I was raised by a gay couple," said Wahls. "And you know why? Because the sexual orientation of my parents has had zero affect on the content of my character." Introducing himself as a "sixth-generation Iowan," Wahls said he had achieved the Boy Scouts' highest rank and attained a 99th percentile on his college aptitude test. "If I was your son, Mr. Chairman, I believe I would make you very proud," he testified.
Zach Wahls, a 19 yr old engineering student at University of Iowa, addressing the Iowa legislature, Feb. 2011

ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

@no fit in SG

Not sure if your comment is intended to be serious or insulting.

I know there are some who are insulted by the notion that certain religions and communites in this country actually value boys and see them as more them video game playing, dirty magazine looking bafoons.

@Pagan

@Truthseeker

I'm sure you're both familiar with the term, "There are lies and then there are statistics."

Feel free to bury your heads in the sand all you want. Feel free to ignore, scoff at, or ridicule studies like this all you wish. But the fact of the matter is, boys in our country are struggling and falling short in ever greater numbers.

Perhaps, like some in our society, you honestly don't care about teenage boys or young adult men and where they're headed in society. Perhpas the numbers displayed in this article give you pleasure. I'm sure NOW, the ACLU, Planned Parenthood and the NEA are all high fiveing each other right now.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

For too long we have followed the liberal prescriptions to cure our ills, and only made them worse. Much worse. - DN Subscriber

Excuse me??

** 'Bristol Palin has book deal' - By Hillel Italie - AP - Published by DSnews - 03/01/11

'Bristol Palin, 20, has become a celebrity in her own right, through her broken relationship with her child's father, Levi Johnston...' - article.

In case you didn't know...

Bristol Palin was raised in a 'Abstinence only' family. Her mother is one of the most known conservatives in America...

Sarah Palin.

ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

In fairness, I think it's foolish to suggest that all boys in our society are being kicked to the ground while all girls are being propped up and handed everything on a silver platter.

The numbers in this article clearly show that boys in our society are being short changed.

Of course, no one (except radical, far left feminists) are flat out saying things like, "Boys are worthless and we should all prevent them from doing well in school."

It's a lot more subtle than that.

It includes TV talk shows that glamorize violent, sexually active men.

It includes TV shows, movies and video games in which men are often shown as selfish, violent, hurtful and lazy.

It includes the glamorizing of male athletes who father children with many different women.

But even beyond this, society in general places more value and looks and money than brains, and that goes for both males and females.

People like Pagan and Truthseeker will contiue to mock and belittle articles like this. The rest of us can actually do something about it.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'Perhaps, like some in our society, you honestly don't care about teenage boys or young adult men and where they're headed in society. Perhpas the numbers displayed in this article give you pleasure.' - ClarkHippo 7:29 p.m. Feb. 18, 2012

If I didn't care about this country...

I never would have tried to serve in the US military.

*'Donât Ask, Donât Tell: Serving in Silence' - By Matthew LaPlante - SL Tribune - Watts Cooking - Reprinted: 07/02/11

'Pagan said he was questioned repeatedly about the meaning of the conversation and even subjected to a polygraph test.' - article

While it was busy discriminating against me.

I never would have gotten my Anthrax shots, or went through basic training in Ft. Jackson, South Carolina.

'Victory Starts Here.'

Before you continue you ill-informed rant about failings you are PROJECTING onto other people...

help.

Or stop complaining.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Re:Clark Hippo

Mocking? Belittling?
I am acutely concerned and aware of the plight of boys in our society, since I have only sons.
It doesn't appear as if you read my posts, but instead, just respond with a knee-jerk reaction..
One of my posts was merely rebutting the notion that liberals, liberal policies, are to blame.

I really don't know that teaching methods are to blame. I think schools are more conducive to allowing children to move around the classroom which suits boys better than when I was in school (decades ago) and nearly all day was spent sitting at desks. That's not to say teaching methods shouldn't be examined. I would be interested to hear from teachers.

I really do believe the increasing percentage of single parent families is a big factor. My son told me once he knows boys who don't plan on going to college because they can't afford it and because they need to work to help support the family. I think the loss of a father through divorce can have a greater affect on the boys or at least affects them in ways different than daughters.

bored
Lindon, UT

I think the majority of comments here are right - I don't think there is a specific war on boys - it's just a symptom of the way our society is working right now. TV and movies, as well as video games, don't help matters. They promote violence and a lack of personal responsibility. Boys (and men) are not cool if they are intelligent and sensitive. Not very much of entertainment out there exhibits any value in family or any sort of moral baseline for kids to follow. Men that are intelligent and/or sensitive are portrayed as either gay or nerdy. The message is: it's not cool to be smart, it's not cool to follow the rules, it's not cool to just be a normal well-adjusted male.

lds4gaymarriage
Salt Lake City, UT

How about this heresy -

Give all parents vouchers which will allow parents, if they so choose, to send their kids to same-sex schools. They boys' school could have a ciriculum based on the style of learning that fits boys and the same at a school for girls which could have a ciriculum based on the style of learning that fits girls.

We all know that males are visually stimulated, hence 95% of porn is of nude women (and the porn of nude men is bought more by gay men than by straight women). Visual entertainment like video games and PCs are FAR more attractive to males than females. having a visually oriented ciriculum for boys would work better for them than for girls.

Perhaps in same-sex schools, the kids would focus more on studying rather than trying to show off for and attract members of the opposite sex.

it may not be PC, but as Glenn beck says, "The truth has no agenda".

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