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Comments about ‘Frank Pignanelli & LaVarr Webb: Will attempts to increase Utah caucus attendance succeed?’

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Published: Sunday, Feb. 19 2012 12:00 a.m. MST

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LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

I called the Davis County Clerk's office to get dates, times and locations of all the different Party Caucuses.

I never vote party-line, and wanted to hear and be involved everything happening -- I like to call it keeping OPEN-minded.

I was please to find out that I can attend all of the Party cacuses --- EXCEPT, the Republican Party.
It seems the Utah GOP is the only group with a "Card-carrying, Party Members ONLY" closed-door policy.

So much for open-door, invite your neighbors, All are Welcome, Big-Tent Republican Party of yester-year.

BTW - Closed doors reflect Closed minds.

David King
Layton, UT

"the caucuses will always be dominated by a relatively small number of passionate political activists who don't represent mainstream Utahns"

Elections are decided by those who show up. Period. I am one of those "extremists" who showed up in 2010 to retire Bob Bennet. I will be showing up in 2012 to show Mr. Hatch the door. It is not extreme to oppose bailouts, mandates, and unsustainable debt. Show me one instance where the "mainstream" of either party has offered anything other than the status quo, and you might change my mind.

Frankly I'm tired of being labeled an extremist and "right-wing" for believing our country needs some changes. We've seen 3 decades of Orrin Hatch, and things haven't improved, and he's often been part of the problem, most dramatically with his vote for the bank bailout, and George W. Bush's spending. I'm weary of this holier-than-thou, we're mainstream, you're crazy attitude from the likes of Piganelli and Burton. The political ruling class has this nation headed for disaster while they pick up their lobbying checks and amass power. I'm a caucus-goer, and I say ENOUGH is ENOUGH!

Utah_1
Salt Lake City, UT

The caucus system is the best way to make sure grass roots movements can work over large amounts of money. It is the only way someone with $100,000 can go against someone with $2,000,000 in election funds.

There were about 60,000 republicans in Utah that went to the neighborhood caucus elections in 2010 to elect the 3500 delegates. Add to those numbers to democrats and the primary elections and certainly the municipal elections didn't do any better in voter representation. This year the number of state delegates for the GOP has been raised to 4000.

Most people that want the caucus system changed, there are exceptions, are frustrated that they don't have as much power as people that show up to the neighborhood election caucus meetings. It doesn't take money, you just have to show up.

What we need are more people getting involved earlier, not shutting down the system that protects us from power hungry people wanting to take over.

Well Read
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

The caucus system is highly flawed!. An open primary is the only thing that will broaden the amount of voters in Utah. The far right and far left wing nuts are too much in control of the system for the caucus system to work. Only if the system is opened up to allow anyone who gets a reasonable amount of signatures showing support and pays a reasonable fee will the political system in Utah improve. The requirement for a group to put an initiative on the ballot is so flawed as to make it impossible to put an initiative on the ballot. This is an example of how flawed the system is. Things are so rigged that most of the Utah voters are turned off. Only an open primary system will solve the problem.

Well Read
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

David King - Your comment could not be a better representation of the short comings of the caucus system in Utah. I did not agree with Bob Bennett, but believe he was popular enough to win had the right wing caucus of Utah allowed it. You may be tired of being labeled an extremist, but in any state with an open primary you would be just that. Utah needs an open primary system to allow all citizens the right to vote their conscience. That is not possible in Utah.

I hope I did not step over the line, but I gett a bit upset with the Utah caucus system. It is a closed system.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

Says Pignanelli: "Ultraconservatives have dominated GOP caucuses for years (as their ultraliberal colleagues have Democratic caucuses). " Trying to appear "fair and balanced?" Lefties do not dominate the Utah Democratic Party. If they did, I would still participate with them. Utah Democrats, and yes the ones who show up, are centrists for the most part. The situation for Democrats is desperate and impossible for the following reasons: the far right of LDS control the agenda of this state. Everyone is afraid of them, even ordinary LDS Republicans. Over most of the state's geography it is impoossible to elect a Democrat? So why should they bother?

David King
Layton, UT

@Well Read
"You may be tired of being labeled an extremist, but in any state with an open primary you would be just that"

What views have I expressed that would qualify me as extreme? Voting against incumbents who have been in for decades? Not believing in government bailouts for private companies? I also believe the Constitution should be respected as the supreme law of the land. Does that make me extreme? I don't enjoy registering as a Republican, but I do it to have a voice. There's no special condition that allows me to have any more say than anyone else. As mentioned above, a caucus system helps those lacking huge amounts of money or political connections, and I like that. If people believe me to be extreme, that have the right to attend any caucus they like, or form their own party. Then they and this "vast majority" of mainstream Utahns they keep telling us exist can vote for their preferred candidate.

Well Read
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

David King - you are to close to the trees to see the forest. It is not easy for one who has lived in Utah for a long time or perhaps for your entire life to see just how extreme the right wing republicans in this state are. Look closely at the legislation presented. Watch how little the democrats are listened to. notice the power the eagle forum and Gail Rozeka are listened to and whose council they meekly follow.

When UI first moved into this state from another state I thought the terms 'cowboy caucus' and 'eagle forum' were a joke. since then I have come to realize the control these two entities have on the state of Utah. Their views are extreme right wing. they are very much my way or the highway.

The republicans in Utah and sadly in much of the nation are extreme right wing. So much so that they have little chance to beat Obama in 2012.

Yes, David almost everything you say says extreme right wing.

David King
Layton, UT

@Well Read
"Yes, David almost everything you say says extreme right wing."

I have tried to state my views clearly and without belittling others. I have not labeled anyone using words with very negative connotations. I have not used a screen name, but in fact, my real name, to validate my thoughts. I would ask for the same consideration. That being said, you have the right to call me whatever you wish, and I respect that right.

The real issue is why has stating a need to follow the Constitution and get our finances under control made me "extreme". Not long ago, Utah was named the best-managed state of the union. Meanwhile, a "mainstream" state like California faces huge deficits and tough decisions. If Utah were facing a budget crisis, suffering from above-average unemployment, or cities overflowing with violent crimes, I believe you would have a stronger case. Do changes need to be made in our system? Absolutely. But I don't believe we accomplish those changes by labeling the rule of law and opposition to 42 years in the Senate as extreme.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

David King | 12:51 a.m. Feb. 19, 2012
Layton, UT
"the caucuses will always be dominated by a relatively small number of passionate political activists who don't represent mainstream Utahns"

Elections are decided by those who show up. Period. I am one of those "extremists" who showed up in 2010 to retire Bob Bennet. I will be showing up in 2012 to show Mr. Hatch the door. It is not extreme to oppose bailouts, mandates, and unsustainable debt. Show me one instance where the "mainstream" of either party has offered anything other than the status quo, and you might change my mind.

Frankly I'm tired of being labeled an extremist and "right-wing" for believing our country needs some changes.

=============

Appearantly,
The "Bretheren" feel that you [and so many others] are...

David King
Layton, UT

@LDS Liberal
"Appearantly,
The "Bretheren" feel that you [and so many others] are..."

So because the LDS church releases a statement encouraging participation in the caucus, I should understand that the Brethren think I'm extreme? I'm not sure I agree with that logic. The only statement I know of is (this comes the official website of the Church):
"[The Church] expect[s] its members to engage in the political process in an informed and civil manner, respecting the fact that members of the Church come from a variety of backgrounds and experiences and may have differences of opinion in partisan political matters"

I've tried to support good, honest, and virtuous people as our leaders advise. I wholeheartedly reject your assertion that Church leaders disapprove of my political views. My political conscience is clean. President Monson or other leaders have not released a statement telling us which candidates to support, so I will use my best judgement. You do not know the intent of their words any better than I, and should not try to make me feel like a lesser member of the Church for my political beliefs, especially without validating your comments with your real name.

Informed Voter
South Jordan, UT

David King: 3 big cheers for you!! I too do not appreciate being called an extremist by supporting the Constitution, fiscal responsibility, and the conviction the Washington establishment must go.

Well Read
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

David King. The republicans are using scare tactics. you have been listening to them. I will agree the deficit is high. I will not agree that it is Obama's fault. It is Bushes fault and the bush tax cuts. Clinton handed Bush a surplus. Bush raised the debt higher than it had ever been. the republicans think wee can cut our way out of rthee mess Bush got us in. It ain't gonna happen.

There are four things we need to do: 1. Let the Bush tax cuts expire! 2. Raise the rate at which one stops paying into the SS fund. Get rid of the 2% cut that was just enacted. 3. Cut the federal budget military, as well as entitlement programs. 4. Lower the legislators pay and perks. Do those 4 things and in ten years we would be in good shape!

Informed Voter
South Jordan, UT

David King: 3 big cheers for David King!! I too dislike being called an extremist because I want our government to abide by the Constitution and exhibit fiscal restraint. Bennett lost because of his history and an unwillingness to boldly oppose the policies of Pres. Obama and Harry Reid. The democrat policies and their style of politics gave birth to the Tea Party. Without Obama, Bennett would have ridden the status quo as in his previous campaigns.

Winglish
Lehi, UT

One of the major problems with the caucus system is that it gives the vocal minority all the power. Take David King here- He seems like a genuinely nice fellow, but for some reason he feels that his vote should overpower everyone else's if they want something different than what he wants. That's what the caucus system does. It provides power to those who lust after it. The caucus system needs to go. It is time to open our state to the primary voting system and allow everyone a voice, not just those "elite" who think they know more than others. Watch, someone will get on here and pretend that caucus goers study the issues more or know more than their fellow citizens so somehow their vote should count for more. It is just arrogant.

David King1
Provo, UT

@Well Read | 5:29 p.m. Feb. 19, 2012

I don't know where you got the idea that I blamed Barack Obama for the entirety of the deficit. I never mentioned him in my posts. The only individual I mentioned that I disagreed with was Orrin Hatch, a Republican. If you have seen some of my other comments, you will not see someone who follows the Republican party line. I agree with all of your 4 points! And I'm glad you mentioned the entitlements, because long-term, they are the biggest drivers of our deficits. My only disagreement would be that Clinton never really had a surplus, they were taking the money from the Social Security "trust fund" the whole time. You had better be careful, though. Seeing how we agree on so many things, you might also be labeled an extremist. If you read my original post, that was my main point, I don't like being called an extremist for believing changes are necessary. We should be careful who we call extreme, because we might be surprised to learn how many things we have in common.

David King1
Provo, UT

@Winglish | 8:02 p.m. Feb. 19, 2012
"Take David King here- He seems like a genuinely nice fellow, but for some reason he feels that his vote should overpower everyone else's if they want something different than what he wants"

I have never asked my vote to mean more than anyone else's. I believe we should have an open caucus system where there is no need to register with a specific party. I wish everyone would go to the caucus! I don't care if my vote is overridden by the majority. The only argument I am making is that people who believe the Constitution should be followed and the debt decreased should not be called extreme. I do prefer caucuses over primaries for the simple reason that I think it lessens the impact of huge campaign donations, and I think we all agree that elections shouldn't go to the highest bidder. Is that extreme? I'm not after power, I don't lust for it. I just want to see a decrease in power of the federal government and that power returned to the states and the people.

PeanutGallery
Salt Lake City, UT

The Utah caucus system should stay as it is. The Republicans should keep their closed primary.

PeanutGallery
Salt Lake City, UT

David King: Great comments.

Uncle Charles
Where freedom and liberty reign, utah

Another lie by LDS Liberal to try to demean Republicans who he absolutely despises. Anyone can attend a Republican caucus meeting. Anyone. But only registered Republicans can vote for the delegates.

And since you have claimed you are a registered Libertarian, why would you think you get to vote for the delegates of any other party? Your logic and reason are build on quicksand.

@DavidKing: what people like WellRead are actually saying is that if you don't believe and vote like he/she does then yes, you are an extremist. Never do they stop to ponder that maybe it's their views that are extreme.

it's just a way they try to feel good about what they are pushing on the country.

And let's be crystal clear about the push to get the caucus system changed -- it's only because the Establishment Republicans have lost their control on the party. Conservatives are tired of the tax and spend Republicans pushing their Democratic light agenda on us. We took the control back in 2010 and will continue to make change in 2012.

The Establishment's for the caucus system as long as they won. Now they want to change it because they lose!

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