I don't think people are honest with themselves when they accuse others of
living in a "bubble". We all do. I take great pains to protect the walls
of my "bubble" and have noticed that its dimensions have to change as I
go about interacting with others.However, I don't think my
"bubble" is opaque nor even translucent. I believe I can see the ills of
the "outside" quite well. That is why I maintain the walls of my
"bubble" and if truth be told most adults are in the same condition. The
only persons who are entirely open to anything that comes down the road, are
those who are still deciding who and what they are, or have decided to be the
worst that they can be. Even those who find themselves in poverty or worse, make
effort to avoid the worst and obtain the best of what is occurring around them.
That is why Americans are so doubly blessed. Not only do we have more than the
rest of the world, we also have more options regarding what we do with it.
@New YorkerFYI, I'm pretty sure you meant "accentuates" as
opposed to "attenuates", which coincidentally made the sentence read
just the opposite of your intent. Good comment, though.
Part of the bubble unmentioned here was slammed into my face recently, when
speaking with a girl who had come to my house for help. She was physically
shaking and very upset. She had almost been in an accident. Yes, she had been
texting, BUT "I prayed this morning for protection, and I was only going 25
MPH." PARENTS: Please sit your idiot bubble children down this
instant and have a long talk about "obeying, honoring, and sustaining the
LAW" before another one gets killed, or worse, kills me.Thanks.
I wish to HIGH HEAVEN talks like these would be included in General
Conference. If I have to sit through another one of the same thing I've heard in
every General Conference since 1958, I think I may jump in front of one of those
Bill - I appreciate your concern for my salvation, truly. I can appreciate that.
I am not bordering on denying the holy ghost, where did you get that notion? I
have simply come to the conclusion that the church is not what it claims to be.
Again, this is my finding, based on years of praying, studying, and exploring
mormon documents. God cannot fault me for admitting this, as this is what I
truly believe. There are many reasons for this. Each persons path is their own.
Still we should be able to discuss our different points of view on these boards
without getting offended.
I get really uptight when I hear the term "Utah Mormon".I lived
in Utah as a teenager (Born and raised in Calif) and also as a young adult
(after mission) for a few years.Is there a bubble - No I don't believe
so.I think that many people in Utah have to deal with the gangs there,
poverty, there is a large gay population there that is usually in one way or
another in their face. The population of Mormons in Utah is dwindling all the
time and more and more the "Mormon Culture" is being invaded by the
outside world.What happens I think in Utah is that with the LDS people
there is a still a large group and that there is a sameness in values and ideas
and goals which creates a closeness within this group that people see as a
"BUBBLE" But the people is Utah still see and experience many of the
same things that people in the outside world see/experience. There is still
poverty, rape, porn , gangs etc in Utah. There are earthquakes,bad winters,
floods, death,pain hurt... get real!Just because their religion give them
a center of peace to turn to in hard times does not negate the fact that they
have their hard times. Just because ward families help ease burdens do not
negate the fact that there are burdens to bear. We all have trials to go through
- you are not spared from trials and heartach just because you live in Utah.
We're all here now, aren't we? And many believe different things, it seems,
about how we get saved, or if there's anything beyond this world to save. But
going with what I heard in my youth, I will add this to the mix: when we are no
longer in this life, we will get to wherever the "beyond" is, and find
out who is indeed correct. When that happens, I am sure whomever is mistaken in
this life will be happy to apologize, and whomever is correct, being perfected
by then, will be gracious in acceptance of said apology. Until that day, we can
abide by the Savior's wisdom to be brothers--and sisters--to all and treat one
another as such.
Bill in Nebraska's comment is a perfect illustration of life in a bubble.
Hundreds of millions of people throughout the world have his same feelings about
their own personal religious experiences in other religions. Yet Bill would say
his are true feelings and others are counterfeit. Enjoy your religious
experience. Serve and love others. Claiming monopoly on truth is a scary
proposition,especially when almost every president of the church has said man
has been around for only 6,000 years.
In my mind, a sure knowledge of perfection is only possible after one has
achieved perfection. Hence, I do the best I can, but I never claim to know
something for sure.
Brahmabull: Faith is believing in something without having to see it. This was
proven to Thomas when the Savior returned after his resurrection. As I stated
when you have had experience after experience after experience there comes a
time where YOU KNOW exactly what is true. Then it no longer becomes just faith
and a belief. It becomes pure knowledge as promised by the Savior himself. You
can believe this or not. That isn't my worry. I care about your salvation but
as someone once said, your salvation is yours and yours alone. You can't save
someone else if they DON'T want to be saved. You have enough just to save
yourself. You have been taught and you are bordering closely to denying the
Holy Ghost. Do you really think that is worth it?
2 bits Best comment yet!!
D&C section 129. That's reality?
I was blessed to be born and raised in Washington DC and Arlington VA. Our local
news was the national happenings of the day. Our local historical places were
some of our national treasures, museums, art galeries, monuments, history of all
kinds could be experienced right in our back yard--some of it, literally. When
something monumental happened, it was just a few miles over the bridge into
town. My friends and I, now grown men and women with grandchildren, still
cherish that fact. Many of us who are LDS have reunited on Facebook as well, and
have also shared our memories that intertwine with our faith, and the joy we all
felt with the coming of our Temple and the growth and activity in our Ward,
something that we shared as well as our memories of our native city. Is this a
bubble? Yes, and no. It was when we needed it, and it fed us. We took the
strength of it and shared it as we moved on, and still do that. And now, we
renew it virtually, grateful to still enjoy it.
@m.g.scott Nice to know you know everyone on the "liberal left", as
you call it. Whatever you think the left to be, I am not sure, I assume you mean
me and anyone else in California who doesn't vote the way you do. Too bad, and
since you don't know me, don't assume you know who I am or what I stand for.
Take it down a peg and take a break. Then remember that while you are putting
people in a bubble you created for them, they are trying to figure out just what
your beef with them is. And would it not be sad if you were to learn that you
might have actually had a lot in common and been friends with some of your
"liberal left" people you have been putting down? Hmm. Now that's a
novel idea for you.
Absolutely well said. Wow. Very impressive.
Try to define "reality" in a way that all people would agree... I
think you'll find it hard to do. It depends on your perspective and your
viewpoint and how you see the world.People who think it's their job
to define reality for somebody else comming from a different background,
coulture and experiences based on THEIR viewpoint, experiences and learned
biases will find it usually doesn't work. People have to find reality for
themselvs.Exposing people to different viewpoints to let them make
their own conclusions is a good thing. Just telling them what
"reality" is (based on YOUR perspective)... doesn't work.
I served my LDS mission in Italy in the mid-80s. While I remain today a full
believer in God and the LDS Church, and hope I remain a believer the rest of my
life, I found an understanding of why some people become atheists while on my
mission. While I disagree with them that God does not exist, I listened to
dozens of older men in Italy who saw atrocities of World War II and Mussolini.
These horrible experiences caused them to lose their faith in God. They would
talk on a park bench in Italy, and I would just listen - sometimes for hours.
These old men I did not try to convert. Because I could understand Italian, they
would just talk and talk and I would just listen. They just needed someone to
listen to, and to understand. I tried to do that, and I think I did some good,
just listening to these old, tired, lonely men, who saw bombings and destruction
in Italy during the war. I am so glad I did not have to experience what they
experienced. But I am glad I got to offer just a bit of hope for them as I just
listened to them and let them know that somebody in the world cared. They seemed
to appreciate that.One old, lonely man that I talked to frequently
was gay. He told me of his struggles with atheism, the war, and being gay. I
just did nothing but listen and he appreciated that. He would brighten up as we
would also pass by on our bikes and wave to him.These are just a few
of my dozens of experiences that I have that few people in this world get to
experience - especially because I had the ability and gift from God to
communicate in their language.Call it a bubble if you want - I will
take it, and dozens and dozens of other experiences that I don't have time to
@ Jazzledazzle, you state: I know the church is true, because I do know
that. We can get into how I know that, Therefore, you must also know
that the god of Abraham is the god of Judaism, Islam and Christianity and they
must all be the true church you speak of. That is a lot to know. But, where
does that leave all the other religions of the world; are they godless.
When you're dedicated to being critical of LDS practice, any argument is used.
Their a priori criticism borders on the ludicrous. It does the nay sayers no
credit because even the occasional substantive issues are dismissed.
Did the Lord live in a bubble? He was born in the bubble of Bethlehem. One of
his disciples, without guile, asked if anything good could come out of the
bubble of Nazareth. Was Palestine a bubble? Even the apostle Paul, with all of
his world traveling, was probably viewed as being in a bubble, although he
almost persuaded King Agrippa to be a Christian.This world is just a
tiny bubble to which Christ descended. God so loved the world that He gave His
Only Begotten Son. Jesus Christ was the only one who was both fully in the world
and completely not of the world. Indeed, through Him, worlds without number have
been created. In reality, we all live temporarily in this bubble we call the
world, and Jesus Christ is the only way to a better world.
President Obama and Mitt Romney are both aware that they live in a bubble, and
their charitable contributions reflect their "inside the bubble"
self-awareness. Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich also live is some kind of
bubble, but apparently think their own bubble-boy experience is self-merited.
Yesterday's New York Times said:"Santorum and his wife, Karen,
trail their rivals in charitable donations, giving about 1.8 percent of their
income to charity in 2010.... Gingrich and his wife were next, with a 2.8
percent charitable-giving rate."Thus we can see that living in
a bubble comes flavors, and the Obama-Romney double-digit contribution
percentage flavor appeals to me more than the Santorum-Gingrich it's-all-mine
no, Bill. Most mormons BELIEVE they have an idea where they came from and where
they are going. They say they know, but it can't be. Knowledge is different than
belief. You wouldn't have to have faith if you KNEW something was true.
Lets see there is an old saying which goes seeing is believing and believing is
seeing. The Lord has asked each and everyone of us to become as a small child
who basically listens to all their parents says and believes. Do they know
something is true or not? Probably not but by age seven almost all children
have come to know the difference between right and wrong as taught by their
parents and society. Do they really know it is true if they have never
experienced it? Does one actually have to see it to know something is true or
not? The answer is no. Nor do they have to experience something to know it is
true. That is the problem with so many people that everything HAS TO BE SPELLED
out for them to know something. They can't just know it is true. Someone once
said they'd take logic over a feeling anytime. Really, well logic says that
there is more to this life than what anyone has ever supposed. What we don't
know 100% we base on some theory to which someone else either rebukes or takes
as true. Theories differ through time but when you've experience something over
and over and over and over again, it becomes knowledge not just some feeling.
We don't know all we know of the human body or the mind. Until someone can
prove it different which they can't then yes MOST MORMONS know where we come
from, why we are here and where we go after this life.
@JazzledazzleThere are always exceptions. Sounds like you lived abroad.
You yourself might have lived outside the bubble or what not. But at the end of
the day there are those who have never left the state of Utah. There are those
who insulate themselves from the outside world. There is no doubt that other
cultures do the same thing. But we live in Utah and exist in a culture here. So
don't take offense so quickly, there is no doubt that there is a bubble.
Posters here are embracing it.
I spent 2 years in Northern Brazil in the Amazon region. I saw what real
poverty is. I saw what someone who goes hungry looks like. I had murders take
place in neighborhoods I lived in. I saw people slave all day and make almost
nothing. I saw bicycles were like the luxury of having a car. I also met so
many incredible people.Now, how are you gonna tell me I live in a
@ Ernest T Bass and BrahmabullWell I do know what I know, and
whether or not you take that seriously is your opinion. I do not think you are
an idiot for your opinion, you have the right to believe what you want. On the
other hand I do not believe I am arrogant for saying I know the church is true,
because I do know that. We can get into how I know that, but I could not convey
that on a message board.
@MormoncowboyI agree, I know that I grew up sheltered in a small
town in central Utah. But how is that different than living your entire life in
Seattle? There are misconceptions about both. Every place is it's own bubble.
I agree that 99% of us LDS live in no bubbles. Mitt, on the other hand, has had
a pretty smooth path all his life, with millionaire, politically connected
parents, easy entry to the Harvard elite that runs everything, etc. His offhand
comments make it very clear that he doesn't understand the reality most of us
@ Brahmabull: It's semantics. Mormons believe and are so certain about things so
we say "we know". When you have no doubt about something, it is
logical to say "I know . . ." Just like you know the sun is going to
rise tomorrow. You haven't seen it come up, but experience tells you it will, so
you say you know. I realize that the sun and the gospel are two different
things, but in both cases, experience/lack of experience give us the knowledge
we have and it's hard to argue what someone else's experiences have taught them
when you haven't had those same experiences.
I used to listen to those who were critical of supposed idiosycrasies of life in
Utah. Then I spent 2 years in Southern California as a missionary among some of
the most diverse people in the nation. Later I lived in the deep South East for
several years. And then I spent several years in the Mid West.Having
spent as much of my adult life outside Utah as I have in Utah, and having
visited many more states than I haven't, I can honestly say that those who claim
that all Utah Mormons live in some type of bubble are very mistaken.The
Mormon bubble theory seems to be either extremely naive or intentionally
prejudiced. What segment of our society does not have their own unique
characteristics, particularly when they have high population concentrations?
Utah Mormons are not alone in this. Would thse critics suggest that the Jews of
New Jersey and New York live in a bubble? Or the Catholics of Rhode Island and
Connecticut? Or the Southern Baptists of Georgia? Do the Blacks in South
Carolina live in bubble? Or the Cubans in Southern Florida? And the Liberals
in Washington? Or the Intellectuals of Massachusetts? To suggest
that there is this Utah Mormon "bubble" that is somehow exclusive from
the rest of our nation is simply and totally wrong, and somehow shows that those
making these comments are either purposefully prejudiced, or they themselves are
living in a very small bubble.
@ Arm of Orion and Jazzledazzle:I'm glad someone addressed the issue of
"Utah Mormons" from that perspective. It's interesting that I never
hear Mormons here in Utah talk about how much better they are than those outside
of Utah, however, you hear "non-Utah Mormons" often mention that they
are better. It does seem a little hypocritical. When I was on my mission,
everytime I would get to a new area and introduce myself and tell the ward where
I was from, I would always get at least one person making some comment about
"Utah Mormons". There is no difference between Utah Mormons and
non-Utah Mormons. We're all mormons and there are good and bad everywhere.
Perhaps everyone needs to look a little closer to home. Perhaps we should all
take a look in the mirror and fix ourselves rather than those across the
Some people make it their life's ambition to live a soap opera life. Mormons do
indeed try to create a Christian bubble in which the individual, family, and
congregation can thrive. Be assured that living in a Christian bubble by no
means makes a person Teflon coated. If anything it attenuates their sensitivity
to the suffering around them. They begin feeling about others as the Savior did,
having a deeper compassion and overflowing with charity.
Brahmabull is exactly right.The culture has made "believing" and
"knowing" synonymous when those two words are not. Believing and
knowing are two different things yet the culture has convinced people
otherwise.I cringe every time I hear someone say that "know"
something they merely believe in. Well said Brahma
Jim - how do mormons KNOW where they go after they die and where they came from?
That seems a little contradictary, doesn't it? Unless you remember life before
this life, or unless you have died you can't possibly know what happened or what
happens. You might believe something, but you can't know. That doesn't make
sense because other religions claim that they KNOW. Maybe one religion KNOWS
that we will be reincarnated. So who is right? Answer - we don't know. All we do
know for sure is that no religion that claims to KNOW about the afterlife cannot
be taken seriously.
Great article...well said.
It is true that everyone lives in a bubble to a certain extent. We all have our
biases. I don't think that world experience or living outside of Utah is what
takes someone out of the Mormon bubble, it is more of a mentallity thing. The
book of Mormon musical has a song called "I believe" which is a parody
of this Mormon bubble mentality. If you have seen it, you will see much truth to
it. As mormons, for better or for worse, we just believe.... our
leaders..... our Church's view of history..... the articles on our Church's news
website.... the scientific research done by our church's school... that any
administrative decision made by the church is correct.... and if anything is
contrary to it, it must be misinformed, wrong or anti-mormon. We have a really
hard time admitting that the church has ever made any mistakes or that it's
possible that even prophets and apostles can be wrong even though our scriptures
state the opposite (see D&C 107:81-82 and Romans 3-:23). Not all mormons are
like this but there are enough to give a stong mormon bubble perception.
I also find it funny when people say us "Utah Mormons" are different
and judgemental. That is an oxymoron. I feel like we are also judged by
non-members. I am good friends with a guy from another faith. When he moved in
the neighborhood I was not pushy with him. I gave his son a basketball that was
autographed by a lot of great NBA players, including a couple hall of famers. I
was respectful to his beliefs and never pushed mine on him, and yet, all I heard
him do was complain about how judgemental of a people we are and how his family
does not fit in. He never acknowledged anything I did for him. I was not
looking for any praise from him but maybe he ought to look in the mirror.
What is reality?-I have a mortgage I am responsible for-I have
a wife and 2 kids to take care of-I have a car payment-I am
finishing my degree-I have insurance expenses, food, utilities, etc.I know the guy that wrote this article is LDS, so this article is not
poking fun at the LDS church. Being LDS I laugh when I hear we are in a
"bubble" or need to go live in the "real world." I will live
in this "bubble" all day baby. Low crime rate, family values, good
skiing and outdoors. Beautiful mountains, the Utah Jazz, U of U and BYU. This
is a great state we live in, and having lived in a tough area outside of Utah,
and my wife having come from a dangerous big city, I will take this bubble any
You want bubbles? Try San Francisco. I'll bet they think of themselves as the
most open minded, tolerant, inclusive, and (fill in any other PC phrase you'd
like) people in the country. And yet a Mormon missionary would be under threat
of violence if found there. These are also the people who, along with their
fellow UC Berkeley types, try to close down military recruiters. Truth is, it
is the "liberal left", because of their insular protections provided
by Hollywood and much of the Mainstream Media that make them the the intolerant
ones living in a bubble.
Re: Pagan | 11:47 p.m. Feb. 16, 2012 "I did not need to resort to
insults to make my point and generalize all Mormons as...'Hypocrites'."Isn't that comment an "insult"? It offers insight into the
thinking of the author and reminds me of the novel about Dorian Gray.
Whoever wrote the artical hasn't talked to me about reality or not. I am a
convert, so I studied, and still do. I wasn't brought up in an ideal family
invironment either. I am oldest of 5, with a single mom at times, my brother
died. I saw violations of the 10 commandments a great deal while growing up
under my own roof. I knew about drugs, sex, violence, homelessness, being poor,
and the list grows from there. I served on a mission. I happened to go to
Louisiana. We are not in a bubble. We live within the communities we serve.
We are subject to weather, people, traffic, attitudes, hunger, long days,
deteriorating clothing at times, and the list grows. The difference is, that I
have an understanding that I will not be tested beyond my abilities to handle
them. I also have support from God above, and have felt his presence at times.
If I endure the trials that come, I will be blessed for it. As long as I have
the big picture in front of me, the other things are temporary. I know that
Jesus is my savior, and he had it worse than I did, and if he can handle what he
did, I to can handle what comes my way.
I would agree on condition that the Mormon in question remembers all the things
that are outside the insulating bubble of the LDS lifestyle after going home to
his/her quiet abode. One of the precious reasons to be in the world is to be of
service--not to take away another's free will, but to serve another, in the
manner of Jesus' service to His fellow man and woman. Another reason is to give
one an opportunity to practice gratitude for what one has been given. If all
that is learned from not having "been in a bubble" is that one wants
to find a bubble to retreat to, or just that it provided a lot of stories to
tell, then it was all wasted time and effort, wasn't it?
'I thank God every day for the bubble.' - Mick | 8:43 p.m. Feb. 16, 2012 'I live in the very heart of the bubble, a couple of blocks from BYU,
the Provo Temple and the Missionary Training Center. I am very grateful for this
blessing.' - Straitpath | 9:46 p.m. Feb. 16, 2012 So, not only do
Mormons in Utah contradict the authors claim. (That there is 'not' a bubble) But it not only exists', but it is EMBRACED. And anyone
who claims that the bubble is not healthy? That it is detachment...?
Is insulted: 'Pagan - (sic) Your hypocrisy is amusing.' -
CottageCheese | 3:03 p.m. Feb. 16, 2012 FYI, I did
not need to resort to insults to make my point and generalize all Mormons
I live in the very heart of the bubble, a couple of blocks from BYU, the Provo
Temple and the Missionary Training Center. I am very grateful for this
%deep in thought, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. But I hope you understand
that because one may seek truth rather than a packaged believe doesn't mean that
they are against you or that they are not interested in what is in the package.
We all need nursing but the balm of Gilead is not the same to all.
That is right...Especially in Utah we live in a bubble of freedom and
prosperity. I stepped out of that bubble to go on a mission to the 'real'
world...and found it to be a much different place. A place where socialism and
liberal policies did not keep the majority of people out of poverty. Where
government healthcare did not stop otherwise healthy young people from dying of
a fever. Gun control did not stop gangs from putting a gun in your face to rob
you in the middle of the day, on a crowded street. I could go on and on... I
do not think that it is a coincidence that so many Mormons go see (and live in)
the world and then come back to Utah and try to vote to maintain this little
bubble as long as we can.
Bubble? I think Mormons live in less of a bubble than the rest of the world.
Every year, 25,000 Mormon men and women, young and old, head out into the world
to serve a mission for two years, living among the people, in places they have
never been. Every year, 25,000 Mormon men and women return from all points
across the globe after having lived with a different people and learning to love
them. And the people they lived among often love them in return just as much.
Often, they marry people from the cultures in which they lived. This force of 50,000 Mormons spreads love for all of God's children among all
the members of the Church. This love of distant nations and peoples and
cultures and the gospel of Jesus Christ which they share will tear down the
walls of isolationism (bubble-ism) and do more for world peace than any other
I was born and raised in Utah and am grateful for the bubble. I am lucky to
have been raised in a home with both parents. I am lucky enough to have parents
whose strict rules kept me out of trouble. My friends were good friends who
stayed out of trouble. I was taught morals and expected to live by them. I was
made to deal with the consequences of my mistakes.I now work in a
field where I see consequences poor choices in physical and mental injury. How
drugs and alchohol affect choices of not only the user but those who might
mistakenly get in their way. People whose moral choices cause long term pain
and suffering. And people who believe they don't have to deal with the
consequences of their choices.I thank God every day for the bubble.
To all those who say there are two kinds of Mormons Utah and not Utah. Isn't
that at the least sterotyping? I have lived in Utah my whole life same ward,
same house and everything, except for two years spent as a missionary in PA.
With that I have seen a few things and for most of my life I have tried to
understand people. Why they do things. How they act etc. I have watched jerkish
Mormons, I have watched kind Mormons (Utahn and otherwise on both accounts).
What's more I have seen these same people in every other group out there I have
come into contact with. Vegetarains, bicyclists, Baptists, Catholics, the list
goes on and on all them have the people who think they are better than you and
act just like "Utah Mormons" would, except they use other words to
separate themselves rahter than church vernacular. To counter those people there
are also the "non-Utah Mormons" types who are not uptight and can do
things with people of differing opinions and not have it be an issue, again they
just have different beliefs and or intersts. I think from my experience I can
conclude a few things 1. There are jerks everywhere deal with it2. There a nice people everywhere hooray3. We cannot judge a person
based on the tendencies of other members of a group they associate with.
Perhaps there is a 'bubble' after all, but not necessarily stemming from
religious belief as from ... location? Culture? To be frank, I'm not sure what
it is, but what Bebyebe said hits the bulls-eye. I've often thought there are
two types of Mormons ... Utah M's and Non-Utah M's. The former seem insular,
uptight, suspicious even. Sometimes transfers from Utah to local wards act a tab
bit superior. Not always. But a few weeks later they're smiling, more relaxed.
Anything taken to extremes becomes ridiculous. Anything. Mormons in
the South (PBUH) are just as "Mormon" as anyone, but we don't separate
ourselves. We have no guilt. We attend crawfish and beer festivals, eat crawfish
but drink soda. We like Lynyrd Skynyrd. Those who don't are welcomed to listen
to our Bach cd's. We are active in the ward without hypocrisy, and we can chill
with the neighbors who worship trees. So maybe there is a bubble of
sorts, but I don't think it comes from the LDS faith. Not at all.
per skeptic 8:46 a.m. Feb. 16, 2012Spot on about perception &
conditioningper liahona 8:56 a.m. Feb. 16, 2012There are
some who can't see the forest (the world) for the trees (Utah). I do
know some who have not left Utah except for the pilgrimage to Disneyland. Quite
frankly calling them naive or delusional is a compliment.
LDS from outside Utah are different than the Utah ones. They basically live
the way everyone else does and treat everyone normally.Utah LDS are
a different breed. The first one I met socially (they can't do this at work)
asked what ward I was from and when I said I wasn't LDS the woman put her nose
in the air, turned and walked away from me without another word. 'Great first
impression. I've also gotten the ubiquitous "If you don't like it here you
can leave".Yes, you live in a bubble.
@coltakashi Clearly you are not whom they are referring to in the article.
Most people who serve 20 years in the military would be identified by that.
The vast majority of us are civilians.
LDSareChristians,That is a FANTASTIC point. I've never even
considered it. I think those who reject the church or don't understand the
church (or LDS doctrines) might argue something along the lines of
excommunication. However, such a claim would be very contrary to our beliefs
anyway. Excommunication isn't a punishment to 'get even' or to 'make one
suffer'. Excommunication is intended to help bring people back into the fold,
into the work, to help lift people out of the serious situation they are in.
Someone not getting permission to do a baptism is certainly a concern while we
are trying to be respectful to others. But excommunication is far more serious
than a matter of being respectful. To not 'count them among' the church of God
anymore is highly inappropriate and anyone who believes in the church would
never suggest such an idea.With that in mind, what possible
punishment could the church assign? You can't worship? You can't go to the
temple anymore? (preventing/delaying many other ordinances vital to our
beliefs)... and for what? To show respect to others? I believe in showing
respect. But no Jew, no Catholic, no anyone can properly claim that the church
should punish people in any spiritual fashion. And outside of that, what lawful
punishment could exist? None. It's unreasonable.
Have I as a Mormon lived in "bubbles" protected from reality? Grew up
in Salt Lake with an American father and Japanese mother and four siblings, Dad
was laid off work during a Kennecott strike, we were receiving food from LDS
Church welfare services, and lived in what is now a lower income Salt Lake
neighborhood. Served a two year mission in Japan, in Otaru, Nagano, Kofu,
Koriyama, and Sapporo, going out in all kinds of weather to talk to people in
Japanese. Served in the Air Force 20 years, in Colorado, Maryland, Japan,
Virginia, Nebraska, and San Francisco, traveling all over the US in my work and
litigating and negotiating legal disputes. Practiced law with a Philadelphia
firm for clients in New York, Illinois, Utah, and California, alongside
attorneys from Philadelphia and Washington, DC. Working in Idaho and Washington
State on the cleanup of nuclear waste while constantly litigating against EPA
and States. With my wife raised 3 kids and now 13 grandkids. Instructor for
universities in California, Nebraska, Utah, Idaho, and Washington. Yup, I am
not in the real world. Just the world of family, church, Japan, legal practice,
the military, and nuclear reactors.
I am reminded of Dan Peterson's argument responding to critics of the Book of
Mormon witnesses, who claim that the witnesses were simple farmers whose brains
were easily susceptible to seeing fantabulous things and not grounded in
"reality." This, coming from people who get most of their information
each day from electronic screens that show, among other things, all sorts of
artificial realities, such as dinosaurs and other worlds, that appear to have
all the High Definition reality of any normal object, but are totally created.
On the other hand, the farmers who witnessed the metal plates were people who
worked outdoors in all kinds of weather, who never had TV or computer screens or
earphones to provide artificial sights or sounds, who worked with their hands
and muscles, who crafted barrels and wagons and guns and tools out of metal and
wood with their own hands, and got music by making and playing instruments with
their own hands. People in every walk of life can be very
"insular" in their outlooks on reality, the prime example being those
who live on the island of Manhattan and see the rest of America as an
abbreviated strip on the horizon, of little importance to them, as illustrated
by that famous New Yorker cover.
It was Mitt Romney's money and privileged upbringing that separated him from
realityânot his religion.
Pagan posted:The policies of the LDS church baptisms' are public. But they
lack any enforcement. Because we KEEP having this discussion of baptism's for
the dead, every few years.So, those policies do not, work. To
continue to bring them up, in the face of those failures, does not support their
effectiveness.Me: Even with penalties, people still speed. You
expect the LDS church to do better than the government? The LDS
church isn't the government. They can not put someone in jail, regardless of the
minor impropriety that was committed. How would you recommend the
LDS church punish those who break this rule? (Within their constitutional
rights)An apology, and banning the user from LDS genealogy site, is
about the best you can expect, unless you think you can get the government
As someone who grew up in UT--but in a VERY diverse part (for UT)--who lived in
a low SES area, where I NEVER had neighbors (IN UT) who were all the same
religion, color, ethnicity, and who had disabilities, and has had to interact
with people who are LDS, and make assumptions at a drop of the hat (I am LDS
too), I seriously disagree. Certainly, serving the Church builds
"capacity"--especially outside of UT--but assuming that "as most
contemporary LDS have" is exactly the problem with LDS people. It's the
assuming--the stereotyping. If LDS missionaries took all of the lessons they
learn while on their missions home with them to their bubbles in UT, I may think
differently. But instead, what I see is a UT culture that never changes--where
in order (for example) to be a good "LDS man" you must be a
conservative republican. Where, in order to be (for example) a good LDS woman
you must be pure, clean, but capable to attract any LDS man at will. I think
what people are often commenting on is the "protective bubble" of
assumptions and stereotypes many LDS people live in. I, for one, grew so tired
of the UT culture and "bubble" that I moved out. I was often judged as
"weird or different" because I grew up in a diverse UT world--compared
to many other LDS people. Do I think the man running for president lives in a
"bubble". No. But then--he only ever lived in UT for a very short
time. He's always faced the world as a minority. But, do I think he tries to
"walk the cultural walk?". Much of the time, YUP!
I know plenty of Mormons who live in a bubble. They do it to themselves by
putting on blinders. There are plenty who are open minded, but to an extent,
yes, a large percentage live in a bubble.
Well, if Mormons live in a bubble, Mitt Romney is busting it. The coverage of
Mormons and Mormonism is getting more extensive by the day. And, regrettably
most of it is negative from both the right and the left.
Yeah. The zion curtain is real.
@Searching ... It's too bad the irony in your last paragraph is intentional. The
Socratic dialectical method you claim to use never includes antagonism and
ridicule. They don't win arguments. About the only use they have is as a bad
cover in avoiding questions such as those you quoted but did not specifically
answer. As far as visiting conservative, religious sites to inform, as you say
... right. When is the last time you visited an Islamic site and insulted the
Koran? I thought so. Keyboard courage has its limits, eh?
"You continue to post words...drenched in sarcasm and anger, towards a
group of family loving, kind, God fearing people. Who left the East and traveled
hundreds of miles on foot, just to be left in peace from other angry people. You
are not alone, many other angry anti-Mormon people troll these boards, and I
wonder.... why?Why not just stay away ... and read one of the
hundreds of liberal newspapers with articles that will not flame your deep
dislikes towards the "Mormon manufactured reality.""It's too bad that the irony in this rant isn't intentional. It's quite
illuminating. Really, it's human nature to surround yourself with like-minded
people, those who will reinforce your view on life. It's natural, and in many
case, healthy. The biggest hope for the LDS church after the death of Joseph
Smith was to distance itself from opposition where it could grow unmolested with
its beliefs unchallenged . . . in a bubble. By the time Utah was invaded by
non-believers, the church and its members were strong enough to interact with
outsiders with the confidence that it wouldn't be destroyed by any opposition,
and outsiders realized that the church was too large to challenge the as it had
in the past (and, hopefully, the nation was a bit more emotionally mature).So, now, you don't want opposing points of view on your newspaper's
comments boards? I, personally, enjoy the discourse of going to sites that don't
agree with my point of view. I learn and try to inform, knowing that others
don't agree with me. I tire of those forums where everyone is in agreement
because I don't need to hear the same thing over and over. I understand that
hearing your opinion echoed by those with you can sound wonderful. But you
should be aware that a large portion of that echo comes from the wall of the
bubble that surrounds all of you here in your conservative, religious newspaper
VocalLocal,Your claim:The LDS belief system fails to be
penetrated by the realities of lifeThe LDS belief system insulates itself
from outside views.Be penetrated? Is this an attack or something?
Are you at war with us? You might have stated that our belief system isn't
grounded in reality. However, this is an interesting claim. If considering our
beliefs in God and things unseen, there are plenty of arguments I would be happy
to make. What is reality? To you, it is one thing. To me, it is another. I have
experienced witnesses of certain truths. No argument you can make will ever
negate my own experiences. Are they any less real because you either don't
experience them or refuse to?If you only mean that our doctrines
regarding our social interactions aren't grounded in reality, then I guess our
charitable works, support of freedom, democratic government, etc. are also not
grounded in reality enough for you.Insulating a system from outside
views. Another interesting criticism. If God appeared to me- then any other
persons disputing my experience is invalid and ultimately negated. One cannot
argue against another persons experience. While this seemingly 'insulates' us,
this has nothing to do with our belief system. Everyone is insulated by
SUBJECTIVE experiences. That is absolutely a "reality of life".
Otherwise, you can prove that most basic principle of reasoning wrong and tell
me right now what my experiences where yesterday. In fact, you should be able to
prove or disprove God's existence right here and now. There is an obvious
problem with this logic. I have provided you MORE than adequate reason to
reconsider those claims, will you do that? Or is our belief system still to far
from reality for you?
So I've been reflecting upon my own experience, and on how my faith has â
or hasn't â insulated me from the Real World.He may have been
insulated from the Vietnam war. I left UCLA probably not long he started. I
traded my books for an M-16 rifle and eventually went to NKP Thailand(USAF
infantry). The military Chaplains were nearby our positions and one time
Catholic nuns. Reality that busts your bubble are rockets fired in your
Life doesn't happen all at once. That one didn't see poverty or alcoholism until
one was 21 doesn't mean one was living in a 'bubble' until then. Is an 8-year
old Utahn living in a bubble because she hasn't seen a bull sacrifice in India?
The several comments here re. Utah Mormons and bubbles make no sense to me. To
the extent that there is a bubble, which I doubt, it bursts the very moment one
is touched by the pain life and living frequently deliver, whether in Utah or
Do Mormons live in a bubble?Just look at the poor Powell family in
Washington. What a sad tragedy.
I work in an inner city school. If I am removed from reality as a Latter day
Saint, then what is more real than the crisis my students and their families,
and my life with is with them? If anyone thinks latter day saints are out of
touch, please move into communities with 90% poverty and you will realized
instantly that many latter day saints are in not in any kind of bubble if they
live anywhere on earth today. These stereotypes are a sad indication of old
bigotries. It is time to move on.
Pagan - Mormons and Christians - have EVERYONE on their target.
They are always trying to share their beliefs with others, whether through word
or deed. It is something they have found that brings them so much joy that they
can't resist but share it.It seems that you are condeming of such
sharing? Well, when you point that finger... make sure to look at
the three pointing back to you. You troll this website and propagate your
beliefs, viewpoints, opinions, convictions and understanding.Is
there a reason why you are on this website and not on others? Well, this
website appeals to a large conservative christian lds crowd.... are you not
targeting them specifically to push your beliefs?Your hypocrisy is
I don't think the living in the bubble is not being exposed to the human
experience, but some of the answers to the human experience. Paying tithing
isn't always the answer to personal financial problems, rather sustainable
paying of tithing is a result of financial discipline. It seems the discussions
held at Gospel Doctrine are more to encourage one's continual participation
rather than frank discussions on the realities of living a successful life.
There seems to be confusion between belief in Gold Plates with personal
integrity and honesty. That seems to be the bubble of reality, not being
sheltered from the human experience.
deep in thought | 2:25 p.m. Feb. 16, 2012, First: Your comment of a
'few thousand dollars' does not address that the LDS church in the Prop 8 cased
donated those 'few thousand dollars'... to a legal issue, marriage,
which factually does not alter legal marrige for the LDS church members, in any
way. Also, tell me that majority of Mormons are gay.
Please. Second: Unlike people who 'add my name to their prayers' I
repsect other people. If they have made clear they do not WANT my prayers, I do
not pray for them... regardles, and in spite of, what they want. The policies of the LDS church baptisms' are public. But they lack any
enforcement. Because we KEEP having this discussion of baptism's for the dead,
every few years. So, those policies do not, work. To continue to
bring them up, in the face of those failures, does not support their
effectiveness. I try to be respectful in these post's. Some, do
not. I realize you did not address me by name but this is the hazard
of making a public comment. It is, public. And that does
not guarentee, agreement.
Pagan: As to Prop 8, the church leaders have explained very clearly why they
chose to get involved.As to the Baptisms of Jews, well the apology said it
all. It wasn't intended.
'The bubble' isn't a lack of experiences with people on the outside-it is a
belief system that fails to be penetrated by the realities of life and that
insulates itself from outside views.In some ways this is, I think, viewed
as positive by outsiders-the almost unrealistic optimism many members have. In
some ways it is viewed by outsiders as negative-a tenacious hold onto beliefs
that seem absurd and to practices that are excessive and needlessly
restrictive.To point out a specific example while Dr. Peterson talks
of his mission that provided him such a rich wealth of experiences he should
also mention that on his mission he was never allowed to leave the company of
his companion-a means of assuring he didn't stray from rules or from his
beliefs-and that mission rules generally forbid missionaries from reading
anything but a very limited amount of church approved material. He also might
mention that his schedule was regimented quite strictly and that outside of
proselyting much of his time was expected to be used in studying that limited
Church material and the language. These practices may not have limited some of
his experiences but they undoubtedly limited the way those experiences may have
led him to see the world from a perspective other than the Mormon worldview.
I guess my seeing several other countries, much of our own, and many unknown
places in Utah, my enjoying culture, trying any new food, philosophy, collecting
board games, even playing a few video games, debating and changing my stance on
any topic, building computers, liking Dan Brown to Ayn Rand to Plato to writing
my own poetry, translating a book from Latin just so I could get a more accurate
translation- my being friendly and outgoing, my enjoying some of the greatest
known painters, composers, etc., my enjoying some of the least known painters,
composers, etc., making my own art, music, writing, etc., my living poor, living
comfortably, hating, loving, etc...I guess that these and any other
last attribute of my existence can be summed up by anyone with a political
agenda or an ax to grind with the church or a prominent member. why? Because us
Mormons are obviously living in a bubble, we don't know 'the real world' at all.
I'm not perfect and I don't expect this guy or anyone else to be. But there is
one thing I can't stand. That's being generalized or misrepresented by someone
who doesn't even know me.I love life. I live life. I am happy and I
owe it all to my God, His Church, and the Book of Mormon. I'm not perfect, but I
am happy to say that I do not live in a bubble and I am in fact a member of the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
@ PaganFirst: I understand the amount actually donated to the prop 8
fight by the LDS church was a few thousand $$ and that higher amount actually
represents "in kind" volunteer time, use of phones etc. Do you have
statistics regarding the Catholic church's donation to prop 8 or Baptist, or
Focus on the Family group or anyone else besides Mormons?Second: If
you don't believe in religion - why would you care if someone says a little
prayer including your name after your death? How is that going to change your
status in the after world? Honestly, enlighten me. That would be a pretty
callous God to thrust you down to hell because someone of the "wrong"
religion baptized you vicariously with a short prayer. It was wrong
of that person to submit Holocaust names, everyone agrees with that. Each time
you submit a name you HAVE to check that you are NOT submitting a Holocaust
name. I have only ever had access to submit names on my direct family tree. To
blow it out of proportion simply creates a wedge issue out of a non-issue.Finally, I do feel like you have been fairly non-biased and not
blatantly rude like others. I know prop 8 is a hot spot but I still feel like
you are more temperate and I appreciate that. I was not speaking of you in my
Jim - and how exactly do mormons KNOW where they came from and where they are
going?? It is impossible to KNOW that information unless you have died already.
Mormons don't KNOW where they are going any more than hindu's KNOW where they
are going. Or catholics, or methodists, or muslims. So to say that mormons KNOW
where they are going is not even valid. They may have faith and believe where
they are going, but can't possibly know.
I grew up in Utah and went to Chile on an LDS mission. While growing up, I
believe I was exposed to a lot of the realities of the world, but had
misconceptions about those realities. Utahn Mormons are taught a lot of
inaccurate things about other lifestyles and other cultures. At least I was.
As all of our kids know since they have visited us in Lima Peru, where we are
serving as senior missionaries, we do live in a bubble. We have seen the
"real" Peru as our friends have shown us and taken us to see. It makes
you cry. Utah and Mormons are largely insulated from and do live in a bubble, as
do the majority of Americans. Peru has the second fastest growing
economy in the world, but it is still gripped in grinding poverty and suffering.
The rich get richer here and the poor continue to struggle. 60% at least live
below the poverty line. I have never seen so many hundred dollar bills in any
place I have ever been than an Apple store in Lima. Literally stacks of Ipads
fly out the doors. I have also never seen such poverty where the poor compete
with the feral dogs looking for something redeemable, edible, or useful from the
piles of garbage that line the streets of so many poor neighborhoods around
Lima. From Ibn Khaldun's cyclical view of world history, we are in
the downward spiral of civilization caring more for the manufacture of luxury
items than we do for each other. Not all of course and I acknowledge the
difficulties of generalizing here. I like just about everything you have written
or said Dr. Peterson, but this time I take some exception to your article.
'As a nurse I would have to say, it could be good for your blood pressure, your
karma, and your mental health to not subject yourself to such "offensive
material".' - deep in thought | 1:52 p.m. Feb. 16, 2012 Ok. I
want to address this line of thought. It is evident that I take
issue with religion. Of which, the LDS church is a christian faith &
religion. Now, with that out of the way, how would I AVOID it? How can I avoid 'subjecting myself' to this belief.
When: ** 'LDS Church's in-kind donations to Prop. 8 total $190K' -
By Lynn Arave - By Dsnews - 02/03/09 "Proposition 8 was a
ballot measure in California last November that changed the state constitution
to restrict the definition of marriage to opposite-sex couples and eliminated
same-sex couples' right to marry." article ** Mormon church
apologizes for Jewish baptisms for the dead By Joseph Walker Deseret News
02/15/12 I can provide not one, but TWO examples of a particular
faith... TARGETING, people outside, of that faith?
Yea my mission protected me from the real world and those experiences also just
like Mitt. I mean, I grew up in a 99.8% white mormon town and got sent to a
place that was "darker" skin than mine and 0.0025% CHRISTIAN!!!! I
got groped by a guy for the first (and ONLY) time. Oh by the way, HE looked
looked and dressed like a girl. Saw a drug and prostitution culture that made
me sad for all the people involved; the women, the men, the wives, and the
children. I learned to pray hard for drug abusers, wife abusers, people with a
different sexual orientation, and all sorts of people who were nothing like me
(a red-neck, white, rural utah Mormon). I just wanted them to be happy. I
cried when I bought some kids some food cuz' he was begging and looked pretty
desperate. I cried harder when he took the food over to a piece of ply-wood
leaned against a building and shared it with his Dad, Mom, and two siblings.
Who, by the way, all lived under the wood. I worked with the crack babies at an
orphanage and was dumbfounded when I found out these 6-9 month old babies were 2
years old. Yea......I thank my creator everyday for my
"bubble" and ask Him to PLEASE bless those who don't have one.
@ skepticStrangeHow you....keep reading the Deseret
News. Even though you have a deep dislike of Mormons, and conservative
policies. The Deseret News: THE Mormon friendly conservative paper.You continue to post words...drenched in sarcasm and anger, towards a group of
family loving, kind, God fearing people. Who left the East and traveled
hundreds of miles on foot, just to be left in peace from other angry people.
You are not alone, many other angry anti-Mormon people troll these boards, and I
wonder.... why?Why not just stay away ... and read one of the
hundreds of liberal newspapers with articles that will not flame your deep
dislikes towards the "Mormon manufactured reality." As a
nurse I would have to say, it could be good for your blood pressure, your karma,
and your mental health to not subject yourself to such "offensive
material". Best wishes to you, and your health and happiness.
'Perhaps living in the gospel bubble is what protects one's family from
temptation and errant behavior.' - SpanishImmersed | 1:22 p.m. Feb. 16, 2012 I want to clarify this is ONLY directed at internet subscriptions,
however... ** 'Utah now No. 1 in use of Internet' - By Lee Davidson
- Salt Lake Tribune - 11/09/11 ** 'Utah No. 1 in online porn
subscriptions, report says By Elaine Jarvik 03/03/09 DSNews
That's the conclusion of a Harvard economics professor who tracked subscriptions
to online porn sites. Utah ranks No. 1 in subscriptions, according to Benjamin
Edelman, who reported his findings in the article "Red Light States: Who
Buys Online Adult Entertainment?," published in the most recent edition of
the Journal of Economic Perspectives. - article EVERYONE, has
temptation. Even in the state of Utah, regardless of religious
To all skeptics: if living in a bubble means being stuck on a bridge in the
middle of a standoff with soldiers carrying bazookas on their shoulders and
policemen firing their AK-47s, all while grenades are being thrown around you to
try and prevent a kidnapping/ransom, then yeah we Mormons live in a
Perhaps living in the gospel bubble is what protects one's family from
temptation and errant behavior. Is this not a good thing?
Mr. Peterson is correct: living in a bubble is just not possible, not for LDS
people, not for anybody--save perhaps a hermit who lives far from society
without any human contact whatever. For ANY human contact must ensure the
familiarity with immorality, violence, weakness, crime, arrogance, greed and all
the other charming human traits we all know and love. So few people today have
any adherence to the laws of God that meeting ANYbody, chances are, exposes you
to the sad condition of humanity these days. The number of good, decent people
I meet in the course of a day--and I live in a small community--I can count of
the fingers of one hand: and that's a good day. Mostly I encounter selfish,
slobby, inconsiderate, materialistic people and meeting a fine soul is a delight
to my day, it happens so seldom. If this is the case in a small community, can
it be any better in large ones, when population is in direct proportion to moral
blight? It just doesn't matter what your religion is, you are going to find the
wretched traits of the world "in your face".
I think everyone chooses to live in a bubble. Mormons have a lot of pressure to
get out of it. That doesn't mean we always do... just look at the hometeaching
numbers to prove that. ;)
@skepticLove your incite.Please elaborate, provide evidence or
something else that will convince my poor feeble mind.
Missionary experience and even home teaching forces one out of the bubble. It
is conceivable that a person living on the east bench in Provo or Salt Lake may
live in a ward that is affluent and experiences few if any financial difficulty
(reality speaks otherwise). A Latter-Day Saint in the east (last time I checked,
Boston is east) usually lives in a ward that covers hundreds of square miles.
When I live in Pennsylvania I had to drive over 50 miles each way to home teach
one family. It is unlikely that Mitt Romney would live in a bubble that would
insulate him from the effects of poverty. On the contrary, I have frequently
seen that wealthy members get assigned to those less fortunate. Hearts and
wallets open, jobs magically appear.If living in the "Mormon
Bubble" is so wonderful perhaps those who decry said bubble should attempt
to break in.
I think Mr Peterson doesn't understand the criticism of the bubble. Mormons
especially here in Utah tend to be very inclusive. This can be awkward when
they have to leave their bubble of Mormonism, can be minor or major. But only
dealing with people of your own group can put you at a disadvantage.Here
is a example. The word of wisdom. Mormons not being around (or refusing to be
around) anyone who drinks. They don't know how to react to alcohol situations
and can be very uncomfortable. Offer a Mormon coffee (a common courtesy
in most places) you won't get a "no thank you" you get a "I don't
drink coffee" begging the question: "Why." This then puts them
immediately in a situation where they can look a little zealous or overly
religious, making you feel awkward to drink your normal coffee in front of
them.Judging people based on the word of wisdom is a prime example. But
other examples include the way people act or dress, Mormons come off being
judgmental with their "higher" standards. We dont' do our
children any favors when a zion wall blocks real life.
The problem I have always had with the "bubble" argument, is that it
tries to lump the worlds experiences into geographical binary dichotomy. You are
either in the "bubble" or you have experienced the "world".
The whole notion is patently absurd. Yes, Utah (particularly Utah County) is
somewhat of an insular place. Right next to all of the other insular places all
around the world. If your only social experiences come from living in Utah
County, then you probably lack a broader social perspective. Similarly however,
if you have only lived Santa Fe, or Little Rock, you still probably lack a broad
perspective. New York City may offer a broader diversity, but if that is all
that you have experienced, you are probably lacking a full perspective. So, is
Utah or Provo a bubble? Yes! But, so is every other place.
Great article Mr. Petersen. Of course, the Mormon view of eternity does provide
a different context from which members perceive events that take place in
their lives and the world. As with any lifestyle or philosophy it provides more
or less an interpretation, which explains life events, and provides comfort when
life events are tragic. To some extent every living human has some such basis
on which they base daily actions and activities. Reality is after all not so
much a fact as is an interpretation of facts. I suppose the bubble they
reference is that those living as Mormons during this "Mormon Moment"
see things through the prism of their faith, which though different for each
individual is influence by core teachings about God, Man and Man's purpose in
In reality...Mormons are the only ones that have a handle on reality. They know
where they come from why they are here and where they are going....if they don't
repent!!!!! The irony is others have to guess, rationalize and hope that they
are right. Are there Mormons that live in fantasy land...yep, but then again
alot of other people also live in fantasy land.
Skeptic I would like to congratulate you on your use of conclusory statements.
It was really quite stunning. However where is your proof to support your
Re: lihonaHowever, with the vast numbers of LDS men and women who
have left the state to go on missions worldwide, live in other cultures, speak
new languages ect. I'd say the Mormons might be a lot more cosmopolitan than
most people think. Even if they live in Utah.
If you're a Utah Mormon, and never left Utah, then you live in a bubble.
There are none so blind as he who will not see. Again Mr. Peterson fails to see
the big picture of Mormon reality because he is an intrical part of distorting
reality to the Mormon perceptive of what Mormons what to see. It matters not to
Mr. Peterson that most of the world and god see things differently than the
Mormon manufactored reality. It is politics over religion; and conditioning over
If any people live in a bubble, it is college campus liberal professors and the
northeast liberal types who, for instance, populate the upper east and west side
of Manhatten. After Reagan became President, people were heard to say they
didn't know how he was elected, they had not met one person who voted for him.