Comments about ‘Utah senators, congressman oppose anti-piracy legislation’

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Published: Wednesday, Jan. 18 2012 6:05 p.m. MST

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DeltaFoxtrot
West Valley, UT

Finally Hatch makes a decision I can get behind.

The people have spoken.

Digbads
South Jordan, UT

How shocking. Hatch now opposes the bill-- that he sponsored.
Its like the "Dream Act" all over again. He comes up with a bad idea, pushes the bad idea, then when he gets called on it, he suddenly says he's against it.
Its time for a change.

There You Go Again
Saint George, UT

"...As Google Inc., Wikipedia and other websites protested anti-piracy legislation Wednesday, Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, dropped his co-sponsorship of the bill...".

Senator Hatch was for bill, before he was against the bill.

Ok.

Another example of decisive leadership.

Vote for Senator Hatch.

Vote for decisive leadership.

The Rock
Federal Way, WA

I agree with protecting intellectual property.
I also strongly support the free flow of information that the Internet provides.

There is a huge disparity when it comes to enforcing IP law.

If you own a copyright (book, film, music, etc.) the government will prosecute violators for you (according to the threat on every video I have ever purchased or rented).

If you own a patent you are on your own. Ely Whitney lamented that the government would do noting to people who stole his invention for the cotton gin.

As a small time inventor I have to hide my IP from major companies because all they have to do is check my financial status; If I have less than $1 million then they know that I cannot defend my patents in court. They will violate my patents with impunity and since it costs at least $1 million to defend a patent in court, they will get away with it.

A patent is good for 20 years from the date the application is filed.
A copyright is good for the life of the author plus 70 years.

It costs thousands of dollars to obtain a patent (legal fees).
A copyright costs something like $125 and no lawyers are involved.

Good inventions benefit society far more that "another movie or musical recording" ever will. We have plenty.

I wish that congress would do something about this massive disparity.

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

Part I

Under section 102, line 23 of HR 3261 (SOPA) the Attorney General can take action against the registrant of a domain name. (This is only one problem of many)

I can sum up the legal problems with this line in layman terms. First, the DeseretNews web address is a domain name. This is only a name, all the content, articles, ads, comments, etc. can be hosted (stored) somewhere else entirely, in another state, country, etc.

Now the most common form of Piracy they are fighting are "torrents"- these are files used to transfer other files. The problem is that I can use torrents legitimately to share something like "Ubuntu" (a free alternative to windows) or something pirated and illegal. Torrents don't contain illegal material, they are small files. These essentially are phone numbers.

Think of a domain name like an address to a building. In this building is a old-fashioned switchboard for telephones.

The content is hosted in a switchboard, which could be in that building or even in china. But going in the building allows you to use the switchboard to obtain a phone number.

Continued...

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

Part II

The phone number isn't illegal. But transferring (like a fax) a pirated movie across the line is. What is shared can be entirely private or public.

The problem is this-

I could own a building. All this does is allows you access to a switchboard which I might not even own and it might not even be located in my building. The only thing inside my building is access to the switchboard.

The switchboard could be owned by someone else in China and doesn't necessarily contain anything illegal, just these phone numbers (torrents).

When someone gets a phone number and starts to transfer content that is pirated, this is where the illegal act takes place. However, this act isn't down within the building or the switchboard. You essentially write the phone number down, take it home, and place a phone call to fax the file.

So what's the problem? SOPA authorizes the prosecution of the building owner, for not doing anything wrong, and they could not even essentially know about the phone numbers. Now they often do, but 1) they may not and 2) they didn't commit a crime and may not have even aided it.

Jonathan Eddy
Payson, UT

Mr. Hatch, why are you always trying to cram garbage down our throats and when we threaten to put an end to your position as a Senator, you suddenly change your mind and do the will of the people? Do you even spend a single minute with anyone anymore in Utah just listening instead of pontificating?

You know what? I'm done with non representatives. Sir, you should have paid more attention to your junior, but much more in tune with the Constitution, Senator Lee. Mr. Hatch, I am now going to do everything in my power and my vote to make sure you are removed from office.

And I will also support the concept of repealing the 17th amendment and returning US Senators to the status of "ambassadors" beholden to the will of their state representatives that duly elect them to office to serve the values of the individual states where they reside.

I am so disgusted with congressional "leadership" I could scream, but I am sure my vote will echo nicely down the halls of Congress. Long live the Internet and freedom of speech.

iscorefilm
Salt Lake City, UT

The Rock: "Good inventions benefit society far more that "another movie or musical recording" ever will. We have plenty."

As someone who is trying to make a living by writing music, I disagree. I could cite plenty of historical figures, scientific data, and the greatest philosophers/mathematicians (inventors really) such as Plato and Pythagoras on the importance of music in life and our pursuit of knowledge and virtue.

I could live in a cabin without electricity and get more from life than owning every greatest invention ever made. I appreciate science and what it brings me, but human happiness trumps all other pursuits. If happy that science does it for you, but I don't don't accept people placing what I value as universally less valuable or beneficial. Music has changed my life and billions throughout history for the better. It in many ways has saved me. I attribute that to God myself, but there is no question that music greatly benefits humanity.

I appreciate denouncing piracy for your own gain. I only think that there is no need, and certainly no benefit in saying 'forget about those guys, do it for my sake'. Did I misinterpret your post?

beetdiggingcougar
Vancouver, WA

@iscorefilm

It's funny you said you could live in a cabin without electricity as you type on a computer connected to the Internet. Nothing is stopping you.

Patentable IP can be used to relieve much suffering (for example: the Church's own formula for Atmit). But feel free to deliver music to the starving folks in Africa.

GoBanana
PROVO, UT

@Digbads
@There You Go Again

You slam hatch for 'changing his stance.' I call it Democracy in action. He didn't change on a whim. He changed his stance because Utah citizens called his office, expressing their feelings about SOPA. That is how it should work. Call your congressman to let your voice be heard and they listen.

Riverton Cougar
Riverton, UT

"Senator Hatch was for bill, before he was against the bill.

Ok."

I'm not saying that I support Hatch or anything, but to me this is a sign of a good congressman. A congressman is supposed to represent the people. He was originally for the bill (actually co-sponsoring it), but when the people spoke out against it, he went against what he wanted to vote for how the people who he represents would have him vote. Of course, he could have done it to avoid the mutiny he would face had he continued to support it despite everyone's opposition.

Now if only the congressmen who voted for Obama's health care bill had the same integrity. No wonder so many of them got voted out of office in 2010.

My2Cents
Taylorsville, UT

Good info about copyright and patent law differences, I'll have to remember that. I read the article in the news media about these laws but none of the media bothered to mention that they were laws to stop piracy of intellectual property.

What I read and saw that convinced to to oppose these laws was infringements on free speech rights, and I think this is the same reason the congressmen and senators opposed the law. It read like a vague law written by the DOJ and black ops spy networks with too many ways to interpret its meanings and implementation. A Golden Eye to spy on the American people and diminish our freedoms and rights.

I also do believe in the right of companies and business to protect and keep their rights to their property. To protect property at a more digital level by program coding and digital security with cooperation among computer and cell phone manufacturers with back door technology to stop information from being copied or transferred, coded to self destruction of unauthorized copy rights to devices. It would take an industry cooperative to accomplish it and is doable, but they don't need to block free speech.

Z
South Jordan, UT

SOPA and PIPA are the legislative equivalent of trying to exterminate cockroaches using an atom bomb. When you are done, all the worthwhile stuff is destroyed, and the cockroaches are still there.

Let's be real
Salt Lake City, UT

The recording/movie industry has long been getting big for the britches. It is about time we as citizens call them on it. To make such a sweeping legislation on this issue with mostly the backing from multi-billion dollar industries is preposterous. I am FOR intellectual property rights but not at the expense of the entire country with bad legislation like this. I also notice, like the readers above, that Hatch, again, went full bore on an issue just to back out when the going got rough. It is time for some real change (not like the current change(disaster) we are enduring now). Take yourself back and realize that with facts, it is the Obama administration that started this debacle to once again, limit our free speech.

JWB
Kaysville, UT

This law is for people and companies in the United States of America(USA). There may be some or a lot of pirating in the USA but the majority due to other countries laws and International laws that are not enforced, the law would not have real impact in those countries. There would probably be some unwanted impact from the legislation's words, intent and meaning. Senator Hatch doesn't back down very often so he must have been informed properly and will hopefully be an influence on getting it right. People/organizations do try to push bills with good intentions but there are people/organizations on the other side that smoothe the words to make yes a no and no a yes in how they phrase them. This happens during some proposals in state and local elections, also. When you vote yes, you are actually voting no. For Senator Hatch to go public on this, the day of the blackout, is good. The Internet provides a great way for open and frank discussion and provides an open learning process for people in countries all around the world, and not just in the USA. Commerce could be impacted on the negative side

Jonathan Eddy
Payson, UT

This article is about censorship. How ironic. I'm here to say that the worst censors on the planet happen to be the editorial staff of Deseret News. Just try to voice any displeasure about Senator Hatch in this forum and see how far you will get. His church affiliation will always get him special kid gloves treatment with this periodical.

DeltaFoxtrot
West Valley, UT

The real problem with SOPA/PIPA is that the people supporting it are not experts in the internet. Hatch probably barely knows how to check his e-mail, I guarantee you he doesn't have an in depth understanding of how the global DNS system works or the problems that would arise from tampering with it.

How can you lend your support to something which you don't comprehend?

It's just like those jurors who were tasked with determining Microsoft's guilt or innocence in the Word Perfect case. When it comes to computers and coding and the internet 95% of the population is clueless as to how things actually work.

John20000
Cedar Hills, UT

Some politicians listen to the people. Others don't.

iscorefilm
Salt Lake City, UT

beetdiggingcougar: Okay, fine. If you don't want to be even reasonable enough to accept that music can do good in the world (and that there are other kinds of good besides feeding starving people)... and if you think that all your pursuits are so much more noble than mine- then fine. I get it. I completely disagree and in all honesty, I can hardly read such a cynical remark without wondering how any human being with emotions could justify the mentality.

However... at very least, if considering the nature of this article, then I would argue that I at VERY rock bottom, very least, and as basic as it can get... that I have a right to what I own. And therefore, my comment regarding the nature of piracy affecting my life is most certainly validated.

Say I composed music, was paid an income to feed a family, and then donated it to whatever fast offerings and other ways I can think of to feed hungry people then... would you be so against my right to own what's mine then?

I'm not attacking anyone here or the things they value. I'm only asking the respect to not mock mine.

Freedom-In-Danger
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

First, how much does it really matter whether Hatch supported the bill before? Maybe he honestly changed his mind because of people complaining. Is that a bad thing? To me that means representation. If you don't like it, move to D.C. where you won't get any.

Second, it doesn't matter whether you think what's being pirated is a waste or not beneficial to humanity. What matters is that we have every right to what we produce. If that's movies and music then how is it any different? I suppose a movie director has no right to make money in this convoluted society we live in. The masses shout "no to stopping piracy, we want a longer free ride, even if it hurts some people" and congress is powerless to do anything about it.

That isn't very typical of a free society. Now THAT is a scary thought!

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