As a baptized Roman Catholic who has studied Church history past and present,I
would put the Churches stance on illegal immigration in the category of yet
another incorrect response to lawbreakers. Somewhat like protecting Priests from
the law of the land and Gods law when it is convenient. As our politicians are
ignoring the Constitution so our Church leaders follow along and interpret the
Bible to the advantage of their needs and wants at this time in history.It has
all been done previously and will be tried again unless we get the message
across to our Church leaders and our elected officials. The laws in the USA
governing immigration need to be obeyed just as the laws from God . I refer you
to the Ten Commandments. The laws are intended to be fair and just to this
country and the people who apply to come. The Churches need to continue the
quest to help most people in their own country . We cannot take on every poor
person in the world and it is unfair to ALL to let those who can just walk here
disobey our laws.Think about it. How fair is it to developing countries around
the world for us to take the best and brightest from that country and on the
other side of that coin,how fair is it to the American citizen to take the poor,
uneducated,lawbreaking citizens into our society if we can help them thrive in
their own country?
Where were you illegal immigration supporters when my friend was arrested for a
DUI? It was a very difficult situation for him, and tore his family apart. If
it had not gone to trial, his family might still be together. Can't we just let
the DUI go for the sake of his family? It's absurd that a simple law we enforce
in our country would tear his family apart.
These posts are pretty amazing. Listening to them we are definitely not a
Christian nation. We may be a nation of pharisees. I attended the conference and
it was very good. I also enjoyed having dinner with Elder Marvin J. Ballard and
Elder Clayton their. It is like our Attorney general Mark Shurtleff said,
"The first casualty of the immigration debate is truth" most of these
post demonstrate that. The second casualty must be our collective humanity.
Too bad the ecclesiastical leaders and all the liberals can't afford to
financially support all of the costs that result from their advocacy. We have
unemployment, underemployment, Medicaid off the charts, education costs,
criminal justice, law enforcement, corrections, etc., etc. Every one of these
issues is made markedly worse by the unfettered and illegal invasion of this
country as sponsored and promoted by the cheap-labor lobby and their supporters
who confuse insanity with charity and compassion. HIGH time to wake up, folks.
Deporting illegal aliens doesn't break up families. They are always welcome to
take their children with them, when they return to their home country. It
doesn't matter if the children were born in the U.S. or not, no one will stop
them from taking them home. In fact it would be better for the taxpayers if
they did, due to the decrease cost of taxpayer education.
Hispanics get 36% of all green cards and the majority of visas (less than 8% of
worlds population). The preferential treatment goes to Mexico, India, China and
the Philippines. Canada, Australia etc are way down the list. People
in their home countries that want to come here legally wait their turn, in their
country. This is the "line".
So if someone steal your car and keeps it for 5 years it should be theirs? Same
@CWEB There are approximately 6-8 billion people who would like to live
here.Should we let anyone and everyone be here regardless of whether
they have means of support?How should we pay for their support? We
already pay 100 billion per year nationally to support illegal immigrants, (400
million in Utah alone).Should we even have borders? What good are
they if they aren't enforced?The ONLY answer is to have some sort of
ORDERLY immigration process. Why, simply because they sneak across the desert,
should THOSE folks be given priority?If I bring shiploads of my
asian friends here do you think we should support THEM also? Why do THEY have
to report to the state dept. but those who sneak across the desert get the same
"...to lead out on federal solutions to the nation's broken immigration
system."The system is not broken. What's broken is immigration
law enforcement. Mr. Wester is pushing for nothing short of amnesty. We tried
amnesty 30 years ago and what did it get us? Millions more illegals...
millions. "Immigrants the vast majority having lived in the
United States five years or more are not leaving, just hiding in
fear..."My suggestion, return to their countries of origin
where they don't have to hide in fear. We don't have work for them. Perhaps
there's jobs there."Children are the victims of family
separation."When they leave take their families with them.
Problem solved."As an infant, Jesus and his family fled King
Herod as refugees."Jesus and His parents fled from a person who
wanted Him dead. They didn't illegally invade an other country."As an adult, Jesus was an itinerant preacher, a migrant."Jesus might have been a migrant but He migrated from city to city within his
own country, Palestine."... which means a growing number of
couples cohabitate and are in conflict with their church's tenets."So, go home to get married... and stay there.
'Pagen, Bush didn't dare tackle illegal immigration. I don't recall being
too impressed with Bush on this one. Was anyone?' - ouisc | 4:22 p.m. Jan. 12,
2012 Don't know. I didn't vote for George W. Bush,
ever. But he was elected President under the Republican party
ticket... twice. Wasn't he? Why are the problems Bush
IGNORED... suddenly a 'screaming' issue? Answer: Because it is 'acceptable' for Republicans to pass the problems and
not... solve any. My example: At least
Obama, ended the war in Iraq. Who started, the war in Iraq? Who had
majority in the House, Senate and Presidency in 2002? Hmmm...? "The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and
biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons.' - George W. Bush - Ohio
Pagen,Bush didn't dare tackle illegal immigration. I don't recall
being too impressed with Bush on this one. Was anyone? Comparing current
deportation numbers with deportation numbers during the Bush years is
meaningless.Are we deporting enough illegal immigrants during the
Obama administration? I dunno. Seems like we're still doing a little bit of
chasing and not much on the preventative side, as it's been for the past two
decades. Which is why we're SCREAMING for change!! The states believe the feds
are not doing enough, so the states want to help enforce the federal laws.
Bandarji, are you seriously asking this question? Yeah people vacation in
Mexico... IN CANCUN! You realize that is a very small part of Mexico, right?Mexico has out of control crime rates and drug use and unemployment that
2 or 3 times as bad as America. People work for a few dollars a day.Is it as bad as hell? Maybe not. Unless living in poverty, day to day
stitching baseballs in a factory (without health benefits or retirement) just to
buy food and realizing your beloved children are doomed to the same fate
qualifies as hell.Don't be naive. People don't leave vacation
resorts, cross a hundred miles of desert, just to work for less than minimum
wage. They leave lives void of hope for the opportunity to earn freedom.
CWEB paints a lovely, noble picture, but it is not quite accurate.The fact is, we are no longer living in the 1890's, when all folks had to do
was sign their name on a list, and they're in.In the place of a
paper list, we have laws--laws that the federal government has decided are
pertinent to the fairness of immigrants, worldwide, and to the safety of
Americans. These immigration laws are among the most liberal in the world.
CWEB should try to relocate to Mexico just to observe how hypocritical Mexico is
with immigration.Because we have had to implement laws, there are
now "underground railroads" to make it easy for folks to come to the
U.S. illegally, especially from Mexico. There are usually stolen IDs here
waiting for them. It is quite an impressive network.Despite CWEB's
whining about the immigration process, much more people have come to the U.S.
legally than illegally, and for the most part, they're not whining about the
process. They're happy to be here, and hope to become citizens someday.Illegal immigrants simply take calculated risks, hoping to not get
So what is so terrible about Mexico that this has become some moral test if we
don't want masses of their population coming here illegally? As if we were
letting our poor brothers and sisters live in hell and we are responsible for
that by not opening the borders. If it is so bad why do people go there on
vacation? Mexico has beauty, resources, fabulous oceans,great
climate. Actually it is a fantastic place. So why is it bad that we don't
appreciate them coming here, getting on welfare, working under the table,
running drugs and committing an out of proportion share of crimes?What is wrong with Mexico is it has long been a bandit mentality state and the
masses coming here bring that right along with them.
Well said CWEB!I think all of us would have a different perspective
if we were impoverished and unable to jump through the hoops required to let our
kids and grand kids gain freedom
1. Please stop shouting your ignorance on the real subject of immigration.If you believe the system is not broken, you are A. Angry B.
Misinformed. C. Ignorant of the reality of the immigration process.2. Largest misinformation--There are NO lines. Telling someone to leave, and
get in line is in complete error. There are no lines. A person desiring to
come to the United States, goes to the American Consulate, fills out papers,
pays what to them is often a life-fortune, and they are most often denied.Especially women. Especially those who don't own property (in most
cases women). Especially families with little income. (There goes the send us
your poor, needy, etc.) The only "line" that exists is
the order in which a person applies for citizenship, and that is after they are
here with a green card. So if the laws are adjusted to help those who came
when there was not much other option, why does that strike so much fear and
anger in Americans? Where is our compassion as a nation?We cannot sit in our comforts, warm homes, nice cars and turn away God's
children. Our brothers and sisters!
Families do not need to be broken up upon deportation, or when the family wants
to self deport and come back legally. There is no reason for them to leave
American-born children here; the family should stay together. American-born
children with foreign parents from most countries are dual-nationals -- they are
citizens of both countries. What breaks up families is the decision to come to
the US illegally in the first place, knowing the consequences of doing so. This
is why it is so important to encourage legal immigration and reduce the magnets
that draw people here illegally.
No. Immigration laws should be handled by the states. Why? Because it is to the
state that illegals go. The feds are incapable of obeying the current
immigration laws or refuse to. This has become a political issue rather than a
legal issue. It is all about garnering the illegal votes during elections. And
why have laws been struck down that require an ID to show proof of citizenship
at the polling sites during elections? I just read that a woman in California
voted 10 times at different polling stations. ID's will NOT disenfranchise any
particular race. This is a weak argument. And the argument that deportation will
separate families, not if you send the entire family out of the country. I am
tired of this blatant disregard for the laws and our feds are guilty and should
be held accountable. Fire those that refuse to uphold our laws or secure our
**'U.S. sets another record for deporting illegal immigrants' - By Lee Davidson
- DSNews - 08/19/10 "Federal immigration officials deported a
record number of illegal immigrants last year the seventh year in a row the
Department of Homeland Security reported on Wednesday." - ARticle **Record high: 400,000 undocumented immigrants deported By Elizabeth Stuart
DSNews 10/18/11 Supported by: **'Deportation of illegal
immigrants increases under Obama administration' - By Peter Slevin - 07/26/10 -
Washington Post 'The Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency
expects to deport about 400,000 people this fiscal year, nearly 10 percent above
the Bush administration's 2008 total and 25 percent more than were deported in
2007. The pace of company audits has roughly quadrupled since President George
W. Bush's final year in office.'
There is one blatant problem with our immigration system. Immigrants from
Canada, Europe, Australia, and even Asia are given preference in visas and
citizenship. This my friends is discrimination. To borrow the movie theater
analogy from a previous post, imagine arriving at the theater only to be ushered
into one of several lines. You notice that your line is full of people of the
same socioeconomic class as you and that your line moves considerably slower
than the line for wealthy people. Would you be a little upset? Now imagine it's
your race and nationality that puts you on the slow track to the American Dream.
Everyone, not only Americans, have a God-given right not to be discriminated
against because of race.Some of you may argue that we don't favor
certain nationalities, but there's a reason Justin Bieber could get a job in
America before 99% of those from Mexico waiting for work visas.Let
me be clear because some will be upset by this post. I'm only arguing against
the government setting quotas how many visas a country gets. We need a better
system so that hispanics feel like they can get in legally.
My opinion is that the breaking up of families caught in the immigration maze
was initiated by those breaking the immigration laws in the first place.My opinion is also along the lines that the Federal Government (Read: US
Congress) is really what's broken as they not only refuse to deal with illegal
immigration, but don't care thing one about a national energy policy, education
reform, fairness in the tax code, elimination of the "dole" that has
gone on for 3 generations now, the need for a strong military who's presence
alone helps keep the peace, etc. They only care about being re-elected time and
again.Q: When can we fix at least one of these problems? A: Next
election day. Hopefully the American People will have the courage and
determination to get rid of the good-old-boy network in Washington DC. And
regrettably simply replacing them with good-old-boy former State Legislators
isn't much better, either. This is Democracy in a Republic run amuck!
This and the priest scandal is why I don't attend anymore, except on Easter and
the mass for my son's ascension. The clergy should stick to working on the
spiritual God realization of their flock, there is plenty of that work to do.
People are lost and don't know how to have personal experience of God. The
priests see themselves as the legitimate conduit. Now that is not good enough
for them, they have to become political advocates. Perhaps they should rethink
their preferred role in life.
We don't need to enforce immigration laws at all.Illegals come here
for jobs. If the jobs go away so will the illegals.Require E-verify
or a similar system nationally. Revoke the business licenses of corporations
that do not comply.We won't have to deport anyone, we won't be
violating anyone's "civil rights." If they can't get work they will
leave of their own accord.
So "marriage is a fundamental right." So what's the point? Illegally
entering and occupying this country should also be a "basic human
right," since it may facilitate marriage? Is that the point? It's fine to
respect God's law of marriage. The problem is disrespect for this country and
its laws -- which ensure religious freedom in the first place. Just as it would
be outrageous to do away with the institution of marriage so that no one need
break religious laws, so is it outrageous to suggest effectively doing away with
U.S. immigration law so that no one need be illegal.The law does not
break up families; rather, law-breakers break up their own families. Deportees
are free to take their families with them. Thus the "family" issue is
specious in the context of the immigration discussion. "Reform," meaning amnesty, would welcome into this country persons
who have manifest a basic disrespect for this country and its laws, to the
detriment of the integrity, unity, and well-being of this country."...the least of my brethren..." And what is this supposed to mean?
Look the other way at illegality? Jesus also said, REPENT and SIN NO MORE.
Last I checked, Utah tried to pass laws that would enforce illegal immigration
laws, and now we're getting sued by the U.S. Justice Department...
Clergy would add much more credibility to themselves if they advocated ENFORCING
the current laws, then, (provided enforcement is implemented effectively)3 or 4
yrs. from now advocating CHANGING the law.As per usual, all they're
doing is hoping for another few years of NO ENFORCEMENT.They're
really not fooling anyone!
This Catholic Bishop's argument to support illegal immigration is off the wall!
Here we go again with more pro-criminal propaganda from the open borders crowd.
When will the deseret news figure out that the people aren't going to buy into
letting foreigners who broke our immigration laws stay here? We don't want them
here, and we can no longer afford to pay their way here. They need to go back
to mexico and demand their native country to take care of them.
I'll tell Bishop Wester something else that "shreds the social fabric of
our society". The COST of illegal immigration to American citizens who are
killed by illegal drunk drivers. The cost of drugs coming across the border
with the illegals. The amount of gang activity that comes into the country with
illegals. The financial burden of dealing with the illegals. Need I go on? I
know that the above is not the majority of illegals, but the fact that illegals
are allowed in just adds to the aforementioned problems. We have enough home
grown problems as it is. No need to add to it by allowing borders to be
penetrated, and then allow them to stay after breaking the law.
Sorry, Bishop Wester, your demand to "...stand up against a record number
of state immigration laws and local law enforcement initiatives" tells me
all I need to know.You do not seek a solution to the problem of
criminal behavior, or violation of our clearly written (but poorly enforced)
immigration laws. Instead you seek to overturn the sovereignty of the United
States and subvert it to allow criminal actions to be declared legal.What part of illegal do you fail to understand?Instead you should
be urging obedience to the law, and if family unity is important, you shuld be
urging illegals to take all their family members back to their country of
origin. The fact that children of illegals born in the U.S. are U.S. citizens
is indeed a problem, and one that needs to be fixed by ending the "anchor
Federal immigration laws are OK. The problem lies in the lack of enforcement.
The lack of federal enforcement is what has caused the many, many states and
local governments to find ways to attack the problems that have impacted them at
this level.What concerns most citizens is that when Bishop Webster
and some of the other liberal thinkers call for 'immigration reform', they
usually mean repeal of existing laws and enacting laws will legalize the
invasion of our country.They apparently have no concern about the
identify theft, loss of jobs and real costs this brings upon our citizens.
"The Constitution of the United States grants authority to the federal
government to regulate foreign commerce and to adopt a uniform rule of
naturalization. The United States Supreme Court has also found inherent federal
authority to regulate immigration on the basis of federal sovereignty and the
power to engage in foreign affairs: this is sometimes referred to as the
"plenary power," ....."While the US Constitution
doesn't specify that Immigration is a federal power, any treaties and agreements
with other countries are federal powers. Not only is the federal government
refusing to solve this problem, it is blocking the states from fixing it as
well. That is wrong and should stop.
If we are going to have a line for people to come to this country, you can't
reward those that bypass the line. They need to be sent to the back of the line.
That doesn't mean you should stop treating them like people.Do you
remember when you had to wait in line to buytickets to a movie, and then
wait in line before going in? If you came to the theater and the show was full,
you could buy a ticket to a later show. That was before you could order them at
home, and know then where your seat was and what time to come to the theater.You can't let everyone show up for the same movie or there would be no
place to sit, and you do need some reasonable security and rules.Why
do we make immigration more complicated?We have a new law. Lets use
it. The sponsoring principle of 2011 HB 469 provides a limiting factor of how
fast immigrants can come, makes sure they do not place a larger burden than we
can handle, and is more like co-signing a friends car loan.
Question. Does reform, that the good Bishop refers to, mean amnesty or
enforcement? Just checking. Viva Legal Immigration.
I would prefer that Bishop Wester would worry about the citizens that live in
Utah. It seems that all the Legislating that Utah does, leaves the citizens of
Utah out in the cold and feeling like we don't have a solid place within our
state any longer. Articles such as these need to be pitted against an article of
a family in Utah who are citizens, where dad or mom have lost jobs or wages have
been lowered because of our laws in Utah on immigration. People like Bishop
Wester have gotten on the wrong bandwagon. He needs to look inside the lives and
living conditions of the legal citizen. We in Utah have hunger, loss of jobs,
crime in our neighborhoods, split families and a feeling of lack of safety and
concern by our leaders. Both coming from government and our religious leaders.
We need to reform the enforcement of immigration laws, they are just fine as
they are. We need to start by replacing a President who is more worried about
recruiting voters than protecting our borders and removing those who are here to
do us harm. Every one in the world doesn't have the right to emigrate here and
they especially don't have a right to crash the border and break the law.
Here we go again! A broken immigration system. And again it is a lack of
enforcement nothing broken except mining for votes. What Bishop Wester is
calling for is AMNESTY pure and simple. Why doesnt he just say it instead of
this broken system malarky!
Our immigration laws do not need to be reformed, they need to be implemented.
It requires a Federal solution, yet they support Utah's three guest worker laws?
The Utah compact in all it forms in the several states have less than
10,000 signatures. It sounds like it has very little support. There
have been majority mandates in this country to enforce the laws. Many major
media have come up with 60-75% wanting enforcement, and almost 80% not wanting
amnesty of any kind. I guess these mandates are not acceptable, and only
mandates that give amnesty will be acknowledged? Why can't we just
enforce our laws. They were broken, their are consequences. The justifications
don't hold water if you apply them to other crimes.
Ah, I see. Marriage is a fundamental right. Therefore, illegally entering and
occupying this country must also be a "basic human right" since it
facilitates marriage. So how about simply doing away with God's law of
marriage? This way, unmarried, co-habitating couples need no longer violate
church tenets. (Read sarcasm.)Immigration law as it stands today is
NOT inhumane and does NOT violate human rights.The law does NOT
break up families; instead, law-breakers break up families. Deportees may take their families with them. Many, however, CHOOSE not to.
The nation's immigration system is not "broken." Rather,
the integrity of government to enforce the law is broken. By
"reform," what they really mean is a type of amnesty and anarchy. They claim to care about Federal supremacy. But this is only because
they know that the Federal government will not enforce Federal immigration law.
By using the term "immigrants" they mean to subtly suggest
that there is no real difference between legal and illegal immigrants. "Suffering?" Where is the concern for Americans who suffer in many
ways because of illegal immigration?"...the least of my
brethren..." And Jesus also said, REPENT YE. And SIN NO MORE.