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Comments about ‘'It's a very, very sad day;' 1 officer killed, 5 wounded in Ogden shootout’

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Published: Thursday, Jan. 5 2012 7:54 p.m. MST

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USAlover
Salt Lake City, UT

What amazing restraint on the part of the officers! If I had witnessed what that guy had done to my partners I would have emptied my entire clip on him.

NOTE TO CRIMINALS: If you shoot at cops, expect to meet your maker.

As a citizen, cops have my full blessing and support to "finish the job" if fired upon.

mtmanmc
Colorado Springs, CO

I'm going to share another fact, that holds true for combat ready Veterans. When a Veteran responds. The first minute being woken up from sleep everything is on automatic responds to danger. That first minute responds to danger is a survival skill. The responsibility of police is to know that they are dealing with a veteran. That first minute is very dangerous. Time for a veteran to become orated to actual danger is very important otherwise there is a conflict.

Hard Focus
DENVER, CO

'Midvaliean': A lie? Tell that to the deceased/wounded Officer's families. Your addled attempt to defend marijuana is indefencible.

DeltaFoxtrot
West Valley, UT

Another tragic death in this ridiculous war on drugs.

We learned nothing from prohibition... when you outlaw something crime and violence associated with it become major issues. When something is legalized it can be better controlled.

Californian#1@94131
San Francisco, CA

My prayers are with the Francom family and the Ogden Police Department.

I am retired from police and fire agencies in the Bay Area, and this is a loss to everyone who has ever been in one of the public safety professions. When I first saw the news last night that six officers had been shot while serving a warrant at a residence, I thought of the day two years ago when four officers were murdered in my neighboring city of Oakland after following a parolee to his home. They were also killed by a single attacker. Unless we were there, or are those officers' supervisors, we have no business second-guessing how that could happen or what, if anything, they could have done differently.

This is also a loss to civilized society, which depends for its protection on people who run toward danger while others are running away.

ouisc
Farmington, UT

As the details come out, it sounds like this Matthew guy knew he was in trouble, and knew his home was surrounded when police were knocking on his door. He was ready, alert, barracaded, armed and loaded, waiting for police to come in, one-by-one, in ambush fashion. The police pushed and pushed because they knew they had to end the situation before a neighbor became a victim.

dlw7
LOGAN, UT

Only a few days ago we read of people who put their lives in harm's way to save three young children from drowning in a freezing river. Now we read of other people who put their lives in harm's way to enforce the laws of this State and protect us from lawbreakers and those who make drugs a part of their lives. Those men who pulled those children from the river and those who were part of the arrest in Ogden are heroes. All except one walked away from their experiences. One gave his life. We all, everyone of us, should be grateful we have men like these among us.

Brahmabull
sandy, ut

The article does not say what weapon the suspect had. If he had any type of assault rifle, or automatic shotgun and the officers only had handguns that would explain why 6 officers where hit. Or maybe he fired safely from cover when they went into the house. I am just speculating, but we may get more information that clarifies how 6 officers were hit, and the suspect only has minor injuries.

MoJules
Florissant, MO

I am so sorry for this tragedy.

Jonathan Eddy
Payson, UT

This never should have happened! Who authorized this ambush gone bad? Great police officers should never have been placed in that position under non exigent circumstances.

Here we have an emotionally distraught war vet who apparently harmed noboby previous to this horrible event. They had to have had some intel on their suspect and his state of mind. Information revealed that the suspect coped with life's curves using his own herbs (illegal as it were). He was not a dealer according to family sources. Ironic that he would have been left alone if he were an alcoholic. Law enforcement would not have had any interest in him and he could have continued to suffer silently with his mental afflictions.

The decision is somehow made to not capture him on his way to work at Wal-Mart and getting a search warrant for the evil weed. Instead, a plan is hatched to bust down his door at night while families next door are in their homes which resulted in a needless shootout and unnecessary death of a good man.

Was it really necessary to do things this way? If I were the families of the fallen and injured officers, I would be asking a lot of questions regarding strong armed tactical procedures on such a minor offense.

Thomas Smith
Sandy, UT

This event certainly bring a lot of thoughts to mind amid the sorrow felt for family and fellow officers.

In spite of what the police version will be, One) I am not in favor of the United Military State the Law Enforcement has begun. Two) Whether there was probable cause for service a search warrant in the dark hours of the night, the People of the United States believe that their home is a castle, and that their rights and property can be defended with firearms.

Until Law Enforcement understands the Constitutional mind set of Americans, Crashing a door even after momentarily knocking, is not a safe or non-violent way to enforce the law. Unfortunately, this will not be the last incident in America if we keep whipping up the aggressive and military front of the Police. You Cannot call this type of activity protecting and serving a man who is innocent until proven guilty, and is endowed with all of the rights of Citizenship, until his actions are meet with an impartial Judge(?) and a Jury.

wear2manyhatz
Holladay, UT

This probably won't make me popular, but here goes...

Some people will call it the start of the Apocalypse.

Some will cal it Satan in action.

I call these incidents extraordinary tragedies for the victims, but also for the perpetrators.

In Ogden, people were drug abusers. Others must be mentally ill. I hate to say this, but as the pressure on people keeps growing, I fear there will be more of this.

With all my heart, I pray, in my own way, for each victim, that they and their families will heal; that families who lose loved ones will find strength. And that "perps" will get the help they need.

JRJ
Pocatello, ID

One bad guy had the fire power of a battalion while our officers were relegated to hand guns. It's pretty easy to outnumber Glocks with AKs. Our officers need to be permitted to carry fire power that matches the bad guy's.

I'm so sorry this happened. My thoughts and prayers are with the families and other officers. My son daily wears the badge into the night as well, and believe me, I do care. Just because there was a marijuana plant in the house does not mean it was the cause. Like several have stated - leave it alone until a complete investigation is finished.

justamacguy
Manti, UT

@ Midvaliean "Drugs don't cause violence." Um, and they don't cause increased costs to our medical system, psychological problems from their abuse, injuries because of altered judgment. Just like we have no assaults or DUI accidents from alcohol because you can acquire it alcohol legally.

Incite Full
Layton, UT

Once again Ogden leapfrogs West Valley as the worst place to work in law enforcement.

Condolences to the fallen and wounded officers. You have a tough job in a tough part of the state.

ParkCityAggie
Park City, Ut

War on Drugs takes another victim - and not because of stupid overdose or anything like that. Very sad. The guy was growing Marijuana. In a couple of adjacent state's the police wouldn't have even bothered with this one, and here we have a dead police officer and 5 others wounded. I hope our satisfaction of telling others how to live their lives was worth the sacrifice.

ulvegaard
Medical Lake, Washington

I do not live in Utah, but I have a great deal of family in Weber County - a cousin is a police officer. I was saddened to hear the news.

I am distressed, however, when I read comments suggesting that laws restricting mind altering drugs are a waste. There seems to be the mentality that the way to lower crime is to make everything legal. The way to get out of debt is to print more money.

I for one do not want my children growing up in a world where such drugs are common place and used widely by their peers. Perhaps the war against drugs is not doing so well, but from what I see, it's because law enforcement is fettered greatly in how they are allowed to function. In some cases, they are allowed to be shot at, but they can't shoot back. So many attempts in society to defend against criminals are responded to with crushing law suits and criticism.

My heart goes out to the families involved. But I am grateful that such people exist who are willing to take the risks.

Badger55
Nibley, Ut

thomas smith:

You do realize that search and seizure is different from criminal prosecutions, right? So much so that the founding fathers made them separate amendments in the constitution. Probable cause and oath or affirmation is all that is needed to seize persons or property. You can't claim one part of the Constitution and not the other. And, a judge does hear the actions of the person to be seized before he signs a warrant.
Nowhere in the constitution does it say a person can kill another in defense of property.
If you think there is nothing saying they can't, then turn your eyes to the 10th Amendment:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or the people".

In other words, states have their own powers to make laws as long as they are not contrary to the US Constitution. And, in the State of Utah, deadly force can only be used in defense of serious bodily injury or death, not property.

How else do you propose to enforce laws and bring people before a judge?
Let me guess, refer to the old west and let everyone shoot everyone in the streets? You do realize what damage automatic weapons could do in such a situation, don't you?

The killer was in the wrong. The cops were in the right. That is why he will be brought before a judge and tried by a jury of his peers. I doubt he will be acquitted. Most likely Capital punishment.

cjb
Bountiful, UT

This is very sad.

What adds to this sadness in my opinion is the uselessness of drug enforcement efforts, put another way, these officers didn't die for a worthy cause. If enforcement actually made a difference in people using drugs, I wouldn't have this opinion but it doesn't.

I have never taken illegal drugs. Why? because I was taught that they degrade quality of life. They are addictive, they bring on health problems. Had I not believed what I was taught and wanted to take illegal drugs, I could have done it. Drug enforcement efforts have failed to make them unavailable to anyone who wants to take them. Drug enforcement efforts are very costly and buy us nothing.

As one possible solution, I am open to the government taking a fraction of the cost of these efforts and provide drugs to people who want them, in a non glamorous environment. This would throw the criminal gangs out of business and eliminate the crime caused by users and cost the government less than it is spending now. The fact that these drugs could then be gotten in sterile (non fun) clinics, also probably would mean the temptation to use would lessen.

MrsH
Altamont, UT

cjb,
you make some valid points about the temptation angle...forbidden fruit and all that.

By the way, last time I was in Arizona and Colorado both, I saw a "Marijuana Clinic".
Blew my mind.

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