Comments about ‘Prosecutor opens probe into Haka pepper spray incident’

The use of police brutality and pepper spray on peaceful demonstrations seem to be on the rise across our Nation. It doesn't surprise me that the police investigating their own department found nothing wrong with the actions of the police offers involved. The police should not be investigated by their own, but by a Citizens Committee made up of the same people who are called to jury duty.

If I had to choose between the police and the ACLU it would have to be the police.

Don't ever block an exit. Not in a theater, not at a football game, not even to perform a dance. I think the investigation will show that the dancers would not get out of the way and clear the exit. If it does, I hope the county attorney charges the dancers who failed to obey police orders.

It's pretty simple. By law when an officer orders you to move and to clear a path. You have to comply. Instead of complying they continued with a "war" dance that is designed to intimidate and strike fear. Seems like a strange way to raise anyone spirits, when the nature of the dance is to take that away.

Either way, when an officer gives you a command you have to obey it by law. He ordered them twice to clear a path. He didn't say, you have to stop dancing. Or the dance is inappropriate. He said to clear a path, at which they refused to obey the order twice. You have 1 or 2 officers vs 15 people performing the haka. What would you do, when your outnumbered and they're not complying. You have on your utility belt a gun, night stick, pepper spray. Well you probably don't want to kill people so you don't use the gun. The night stick is useless against 15 people. So to control the number you use the pepper spray. It's pretty simple.

Next time these dancers need to obey the law. Very easy. They could have made a path.

The whole riot thing is a laugh. We live in a bad state of affairs when officers feel like they need to use pepper spray and batons on women and children who are not making any threats.

They were doing a DANCE.

Give them x15 mins, and it would have been over.

Today, we still have to re-hash this because of the use of excessive force.

Like:

*'(84 year old) Elderly woman hit by spray at protest: I'm 'tough' - By Chris Grygiel - AP - Published by DSNews - 11/16/11

*Peacefully protesting, Marine shot point blank by Police during violent Occupy Oakland raid By Stephen Foster Addicting Info 10/26/11

Re: kemitc | 7:57 a.m. Dec. 28, 2011

When the police issue a lawful command you are expected to obey it. Asking a citizens Committee made up of people qualified to sit on a jury makes about as much sense as expecting those same people to investigate an airplane accident.

Re: Pagan | 10:14 a.m. Dec. 28, 2011
"Give them x15 mins, and it would have been over."

Police have the authority to issue lawful commands, and if you chose to ignore those commands you can expect to find yourself flat on the ground with cuffs on your wrists.

Of course if you were there and can testify that the police used excessive force .....

@ Pagan

Your statment makes as much sense as, "The ex-husband just wanted to dance in front of the doorway and not allow his ex-wife to leave. Even after police ordered him to move".

or

"The clueless boy kept following the girl, preventing her from getting to her car. The court had issued a statement telling him to stay away, but, he just wanted to show her a dance"

or

"The gang refused to make room on the sidewalk, so the elderly woman had to cross the busy street. Police asked them to move, but, they wanted to finish what they were doing first"

'Police have the authority to issue lawful commands, and if you chose to ignore those commands you can expect to find yourself flat on the ground with cuffs on your wrists.' - Rifleman | 11:07 a.m. Dec. 28, 2011

So police can't use rationale?

Your using authority to justify force.

Not reason.

Other examples in history had athority. It does not mean the actions they took were responsible or justifiable.

My example?

The Iraq war.

$3 trillion dollars lost, over 4,500 American lives lost, and for WHAT?

Just because you 'can' do something, dosen't mean you 'should.'

Yes, Rifleman.

WE have become an example of opression. Where the 'land of the free' cannot dance in public, cannot vote unless we have ID, cannot be heard.

Or was there also a 'justifiable' reason to pepper spray an x84 year old woman??

You cite authority as the reason to adhere.

We GIVE people authority, Rifleman.

We stopped it with Britian, we started it with our state level goverment.

Forget that, at your peril.

Re: Pagan | 11:36 a.m. Dec. 28, 2011
"So police can't use rationale?"

The correct term is "police discretion". I'd suggest Googling the term before arguing the fine points with someone who's been there and done that. And yes, within limits police use discretion every day when, for example, deciding whether to issue a traffic ticket or just issue a warning.

And yes, police are empowered by law to enforce those lawful commands. Really has nothing to do with the Iraq War, George Bush, or Obama's citizenship.

Really people... This just police brutaliy at there finest.

Yes the police probably could have simply waited a few minutes until the Haka dancers finished, my best guess is that they wanted to assert their authority and show who is in charge. Unfortunately this is all to common in police officers these days and helps to lead to situations like this. I honestly think part of their training is to be jerks.

But they do have the authority, by law, to take control of a situation and command people to move, disperse, leave, "make a hole", or whatever else they think is needed in a given situation. Once they do that then people have to comply. Sadly if they don't comply then officers that are jerks get to behave like jerks with little recourse.

My guess is the officers were lawfully in the right and that is how this will end. It doesn't mean they weren't jerks abusing the authority given to them however. It sounds to me like that is exactly what they did, behaved like jerks for no reason simply because they wanted to prove a point. In my opinon officers like that should be reprimanded but they probably seldom are.

'I'd suggest Googling the term before arguing the fine points with someone who's been there and done that.' - Rifleman | 12:31 p.m. Dec. 28, 2011

So, because you own a Rifle, you've 'been there and done that?'

You've never given any indication you work in Law Enforcement Rifleman. Would you like to claim you are a 'veteran' as well, without any evience?

Verbage aside, you are NOT arguing that this could have been avoided. You instead choose to, again, focus on the authority of people who, I have given examples that...

abuse it.

An 84 year old woman, a dance, and:

*Peacefully protesting, Marine shot point blank by Police during violent Occupy Oakland raid By Stephen Foster Addicting Info 10/26/11

an American vetran who served in Iraq.

These people deserve such LITTLE respect?

As to bring HARM to those they vowed to 'Protect and Serve'??

Ignore the examples of excessive force at your peril. You could just as easily be a target of such.

Move along.

Re: Incorrigible Manifestation | 1:17 p.m. Dec. 28, 2011
"I honestly think part of their training is to be jerks."

Is this some reference to West Valley police officer Kevin Peck who crawled under a bus to hold the hand of a scared woman who's legs were crushed? He's your typical police officer.

Most people that are in trouble and call 911 want someone to respond who can "take control of a situation".

@Rifleman

No it is not in reference to Officer Peck who behaved laudibly in that situation and deserved all of the praise he received in the article documenting it. This is in reference to these 2 officers that decided they were going to make a point with these people for no real reason other than because they can.

What has never been explained here is why the officers felt they needed to go right through the middle of these people right that second. Why they couldn't have simply used another exit or else why they couldn't have waited just a few minutes until they finished their dance. My guess is that has never been addressed because there isn't a good answer to it, they simply decided to be jerks and exert power and force in a situation that didn't seem to call for it. If it really was on the verge of a riot, like the officers now claim, and was that dangerous of a situation then why didn't they arrest anyone?

In this situation, based on what's been reported, it would seem that yes the officers involved were simply being jerks because they can be.

Ok, lets be honest here, the police were scared, they saw a bunch of big islanders, they over reacted out of fear, we sure like the Samoans performing for us on the football field, but when they are off the field; walking down the street, many people become scared of them.
If there were more blacks in Utah; it would be the same way; sure like them on the football field and basketball court; but when they are on the street; they are seen as a threat.
The islanders are not the problem; the police are the problem; fear caused them to spray a crowd of people. Now they need to be held accountable, no one is above the law; and that includes the police.

VIDAR writes "Ok, lets be honest here, the police were scared"

Were you there, and how do you know they were scared? You are trying to put yourself into their place and have decided how you would feel. In reality the police don't think in terms of being scared. They think in terms of taking command of a situation and dealing with people who are acting out of line. To suggest that police officers would be scared of high school kids, no matter how big, says that you don't understanding the mental attitude it takes to fill their shoes. Oh yeah, police don't have to fight fair. If it takes 5 of them to take one suspect down they would lose a minute's sleep over it.

'Were you there, and how do you know they were scared?' - Flying Finn | 8:00 a.m. Dec. 29, 2011

In VIDAR | 4:29 p.m. Dec. 28, 2011 defense, I can relate to what they are saying.

The Haka dance is agressive. It involves a lot of shouting and hand waving. While it is still beautiful to watch, many who are not prepared for it find themselves unnerved at times.

Police are there to Protect. And, while the dancers did NO wrong doing, I can think of many persons who would over react in the same situation.

Example:

I was born in Hawaii. I am Hawaiian. While (typically) not as solid as my Samoan brothers and sisters, I weigh in around 300lbs and bench about 200lbs.

I'm 5'9.

I have been pulled over by police for possible car theft...walking on the sidewalk....

twice.

Police react to perceived threats. Real, or imagined. It is the nature of the job.

But it is NOT acceptable, to use excessive force to handle situations...

that were factually NOT, a threat.

The dance, brings no harm.

So, it is not, a threat.

Flying Finn | 8:00 a.m. Dec. 29, 2011

My evidence is that they were not thinking clearly; they pepper sprayed the dancers; along with CHILDREN and WOMEN and others.
A rational officer that is thinking clearly, would not do so.
Hence they were SCARED
Would you give a break to an officer that just started shooting into a crowd of people to get a robber?
Would you give a break to an officer that started tasing everyone in a crowd, because one person was stealing a wallet?
They may be high school kids, but many of them are bigger then most grown men.
But it is not their fault they are big; it is not their fault that the cops were scared; the blame goes to the police.
We give police the authority to use force, and sometimes lethal force; however that does not free the police of consequences, if the force was not warranted.
Professionals are in court, and meetings everyday, having thing they have done, and decisions they have made reviewed; the police are not free of the same oversight.
They did the wrong thing, they need to accept the conseqences.