@ Orem Parent, Thousand and thousands of workes in this country have seen their
employers doing away with their retirement programs with no raises. It is just a
fact of life today. I feel for anyone who is really feeling this economic
slump, but I think we need to completely revamp what we expect of government and
of private employers and everyone is going to need to continue to tighten up
their budgets if they want to see a healthier economy. I don't see why teachers
should be treated any differently. There are a LOT of important jobs in this
country -- teaching is only one of them. Heck every single job in this country
is important when you look at its impact on the community at large. You are
arguing from the point of view of a special interest group: you are a parent.
How about every other special interest group in the country that wants what it
wants. Why should teachers be treated to a government funded pension? This is
why we got into this mess. A bunch of special interest groups spending a bunch
of money lobbying for what they want, without considering its impact on others.
Get Hatch out. He is a career republican, unable to think for himself, but tout
the party line, even when it is wrong.
As someone who would love to see him run and beat Hatch one recommendation to
consider. Campaigns includes much visibility. For better or worse looks count. I
would suggest an aggressive exercise and diet to trim 20lbs off. Don't let the
elder Hatch come across more able to handle the demands. Lean, mean,
fiscal-cleaning-house machine!!As they say in the Armor community:
---Interesting how many people slam Utah which is touted by Forbes
as the best run state and Dan who is touted as one of the Legislators of the
Year.I guess if you guys are against both of these things, we must
be doing something correct.We need Conservatives in office in Utah
and DC. Hatch doesn't fit the description. But yes, let's keep the same people
in office and expect a different result. Sorry, but I'm not insane like the
Lefties on these boards!
Kami,It is true that older teachers will still have it. The problem
is they did away with the retirement program yet didn't raise the salaries for
new teachers. If they had said, "we are in a tough situation here so we
are going to do away with retirement for new teachers. Since they won't have
any retirement, we are now going to raise the salaries of all those teachers
hired after 2011 in order to compensate for that", then I would have no
problem with it. They didn't do that. Retirement was cut for all new hires and
they are still receiving a very low salary. The legislature wants it both ways
and I am saying that it is already affecting who is applying for the teaching
jobs. I'm not playing any "victim card". I am stating
the facts of what one guy did to the state retirement fund. The has a domino
effect on our children and who is teaching them. I want the best of the best
for my kids. I don't want teaching to become an hourly job instead of a career
and this is what abolishing the retirement fund is doing to the profession.
@ Orem Parent, Your original post stated, "but now all teachers, police,
and fire hired after 2011 will no longer have a retirement fund." Now you
are trying to play the victim card for ALL teachers by saying, "Teachers
have taken a lower salary all of these years because they knew they had a
retirement fund to fall back on after 30 years". So which is it? Did the
change to the retirement funding affect ALL teachers or only those who knew
exactly what they were getting into when they decided to take a job as a teacher
AFTER the change in this law was made? Your argument sounds like people who
move close to an airport and then complain about the noise. America cannot
afford to fund everyones retirement .. get real here.
Kami,You are missing the whole point. Teachers have taken a lower
salary all of these years because they knew they had a retirement fund to fall
back on after 30 years. It gave them some motivation to keep going in the
profession. So don't give me the welcome to the rest of America line. It
doesn't apply. Teachers are some of the best planners in the world. We are going to see applicants that are less and less of what we need in our
schools. We need to attract the best and the brightest and this was just one
more step in the wrong direction.That wrong direction seems to be
the one that you and others think the "rest of America" should go. It
isn't. It is the exact opposite.Teachers, police and fire shouldn't
be dragged down to the "rest of America". The rest of America should
be brought back to what it once was.
He will run against Hatch, and he will win the nomination. Hatch's six terms are
sufficient, and now he must live with the same argument he raised when he
unseated Moss - "no more career politicians." And please spare me the
"Chairman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee" drivel.
Orem Parent | 12:34 p.m. Dec. 16, 2011 "There is a reason teachers
are leaving in a mass exodus. Retirement was the last benefit the profession had
and now one senator wiped it out. Our retirement system was the best run system
in the USA and he killed it on a down year due to mass hysteria from the media.
Everything Utah's system lost has already been recouped but now all teachers,
police, and fire hired after 2011 will no longer have a retirement
fund."They will have a fund -- they will have to self-fund it.
Welcome to the rest of America. I have been self-funding my retirement since my
very first job at the age of 18! No one is paying my retirement for me. Its a
matter of prioritizing and not waiting until you reach 40 to start thinking
about how in the heck am I going to retire!
There is a reason teachers are leaving in a mass exodus. Retirement was the
last benefit the profession had and now one senator wiped it out. Our
retirement system was the best run system in the USA and he killed it on a down
year due to mass hysteria from the media. Everything Utah's system lost has
already been recouped but now all teachers, police, and fire hired after 2011
will no longer have a retirement fund. Nothing to be bragging
about.It is symbolic of everything that has gone wrong with this
country.We now have working mothers that have to work to put food on
the table. Meanwhile, the schools are overcrowded and the teachers have less
and less experience. It is a sad state of affairs.Glad
we will have one less senator messing up our state.
Mike Lee wanted to establish a Super PAC under his name for him to be able to
funnel money to conservative candidates. I have no problem with this except for
the fact that he is a U.S.Senator from Utah. Tell me how that is good for the
people of Utah? Senator Lee is all about Senator Lee. I agree with Arrgh and
his statement about taking away the lifetime insurance of senators who only have
to serve 10 years. Unbelievable.
Liljenquist has proven in the Utah legislature that one can have a lot of
influence for good without a lot of seniority. Mike Lee is proving it can be
done on a federal level. The more years spent in Congress, the more ties to
special interest groups and lobbyists. I hope Liljenquist has the chance to
really make a positive difference on a national level.
Personally, I am glad to see him leave. Mr. Lilenquist has messed with state
retirement enough. If he really wanted to save money, he should have taken away
the lifetime retirement and lifetime insurance of senators that only have to
serve two terms. Instead, he makes public safety people work five years longer
in high stress situations, physically and mentally. Shame on any senator that
thinks that is right.
I wonder who would be in charge of the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee
if Hatch isn't reelected? I think it would be foolish of Utahns to lose this
chance. I like Senator Hatch. I think he is a good man. So he isn't perfect. Who
is? He's got my vote. Like it or not, there are no term limits and I doubt there
will be in the future, although I do think it is a good idea, but then how will
they decide who is on each committee? I guess they would do a drawing from a
I am glad that he is resigning. His ego and those backiong him tell him that he
has a chance for the Senate. Orrin Hatch is going to beat him handilly. A
number of other legislators may resign to run for more lofty office--Great! I
hope we get some individuals in office that will not bow to pressure from the
power brokers in the legislature and do what is right for the people of this
state--especially our schoolchildren. Cronyism needs to give way to
From my perspective, Dan Liljenquist is the bravest, most clear thinking,
legislator this state has seen in decades. As a freshman senator, he identified
the catastophic problem that everyone else chose to ignore regarding our
state-wide employee pension program and pushed a resolution through that is now
being followed by other states throughout the country. Was that a popular cause
to take on? Absolutely not (as you can see by the negative comments above.)
But was it the right thing for Utah and our economy? Absolutely. Just take a
look at this guy's record--he's a superstar and I do hope he takes a run at
I seriously think that elected officials who resign before the end of their
terms should be required to give part of their pay back. This should be a two
way promise -- the voters vote for them in exchange for their full term.
We need Term Limits. Career politicians have their own agendas and owe so many
favors to people that they can't be trusted.
Of couse he is going to run Freedomworks has already paid him to do it- and we
think politics is about ideas and passion- money and more money and kid yourself
all you want but no matter which ego you elect it will always return to money-
it always has and Utah has shown no propensity for stopping that
Watch out Orrin, there might be a train comming down that election track. I
hope Dan Liljenquist decides to run.
Vote for Pete Ashdown.
Hope everyone looks at his record. I do not want this man in Washington.
I'm glad he resigned and I will do everything I can to ensure he doesn't ever
get elected to another office. The man is destructive. His politics did not help
Utah and it will not help the Counrty.
Let's stop with the seniority thing. We fell for that for years and look where
Hatch's seniority has gotten us. A country that's bankrupt. We need Hatch out.
Please look at his record. He has always been most concerned about being
reelected and power then his country. If he cared about his country and state
he'd let a much younger person take his place who has ten times the energy he
has at his age and that hasn't lost his soul.
He did nothing for me even after many attempts with senior issues put before
him. I'm glad he is gone so that maybe we seniors can get something done now by
his replacement. He may be good but not that good.
@golfrUteWhen Hatch has shown time and time again that he is more
interested in representing special interest and cosponsoring socialist bills,
why would it matter if he is the Chair of the Senate Finance Committee? He has done a poor job of representing the conservative beliefs of the
Utahns he pretends to represent. Except in an election year of course.
What do we need to do to get another dozen or so state senators to resign?
If Hatch is re-elected, and the Republicans take control of the Senate (very
possible), Senator Hatch will be Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee,
arguably one of the three or four most influential people in the country.
Senator Hatch can do much more to help our state that Liljenquist could ever
dream of. Like it or not, seniority makes all the difference in DC and until
there are term limits and seniority is no longer paramount, we need Hatch.
Liljenquist would be another invisible senator like Lee.
Woohoo! I'm so glad Liljenquist is getting in the Senate race. He is a fiscal
policy genius and Senator Hatch has been in there WAY too long.
Hatch wants 42 years drawing a government paycheck; in tonight's debate Gov.
Perry called for a part-time Congress, less hours, less pay for which we should
all cheer!!!----someone has suggested Congress should live like the military: in
a barracks, under one tent, same entry level pay. Liljenquist is a
businessman which Mr. Hatch has never been.
This is good news. His path of destruction will not affect Utahns as directly
if he is in Washington. He won't beat Hatch, though. It's nice he posed for a