It used to be that Utah's wages were low but the standard of living was low.
That is no longer the case with the latter.
I can speak from experience as I have operated my own small business for over 30
years. I currently employ thirty workers (20 adults) and have NEVER paid adults
at or even near the minimum wage. I do not need government telling me how to
retain employees. Minimum wage laws are a JOKE. The only workers at the minimum
wage are 15-year olds and many are not even worth the minimum wage. Wages should
be MARKET driven.(supply and demand).If you can find a better job you have my
blessing, and if I wish to keep you I will offer you more. I have a ton of money
in the bank and I have no debt. Started with $400K loan. My workers know I
truly value them as human beings not slaves. My biggest competition for labor is
government. (too many gov't jobs are over-paid). Pat yourself on the back
Utah...good work ethic is HUGE. Right to work legislation is HUGE! Keep it up.
@DSBYou are correct. I mis-read your original post, and for that I
apologize. Utah is a great place for business. There is a culture
here that makes people not want to move away, so they will settle for lower
wages in order to remain near family. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad
thing. But just to be contrary and throwing a wet blanket on the
party, where is Forbes' list of best states to be a worker?
Fred44, that sounds a lot like the movie zoolander. Maybe you could
hire a male model to assassinate the prime minister of a foreign country to push
your agenda to hire 10 year olds for a dollar a day to work in sweat shops! :)
Actually, Nevada is NOT a red state and Florida went blue last time. I don't
think either one of these states will make the same mistake next time.Minimum wage is one of those things that is, in fact, counter-intuitive. It
seems logical that minimum wage would help people, but it doesn't. It is
actually the cause of a lot of unemployment. You will find virtually NO
economists that are in favor of it. It hurts poor, unskilled people and young
people the most. It's actually a cruel thing that people believe will help them
but it doesn't. Who minimum wage does help are politicians who fool
people into believing it helps them. It also helps more expensive union
workers. That's why unions all support it. It protects them against
lower-priced competition.A few people on these blogs need to take an
economics course or two.Congrats, Utah. We're doing a pretty good
I never know what to make of these reports. This year my adopted home area of
Raleigh/Durham NC was also named by Forbes as the "Number 1 place for
Business and Careers". So two reports, two very different states, two
number 1 rankings in the same year.As to the silly talk about child
labor and all that, a recent wage summary I read about manufacturing jobs stated
that many companies are looking at "near shoring" because by 2015, the
cost advantage of manufacturing with transportation added will be more in China
than producing products in countries like Mexico. I do agree we
need to establish something like an ISO certification products need to meet to
be imported and that would include setting a minimum standard for things like
child\prisoner labor, product safety, etc... which would greatly level the
global manufacturing playing field.But then again, conservatives
would argue protecting human rights is nothing we should be doing if it doesn't
directly impact us.And Utah, good job being the low cost labor state
of the nation... something to be very proud of.
I was not advocating that we end child labor laws, or end the minimum wage. I
was making the point (probably a little sarcastically)that the Forbes ranking
doesn't matter that much because even though Utah is a right to work state and
typically pays very low wages, we still cannot compete with third world
countries who don't have child labor laws and don't have a minimum wage. Big
business does not care about this country or the workers they hire in this or
any other country, they care about the bottom line. Labor costs are typically
the biggest expense for any business and third world countries will always have
lower labor costs. I would like to see us do what most other industrialized
countries have done to protect their own workers which is place a high tariff on
imported goods. If we did that then the Forbes ranking might matter because the
bottom line might be equal to or better than doing business abroad. We need to
start doing what is best for America, not big business, not other countries, but
put America first.
@CHS85 - why is it funny that I didn't mention your blue states? Try reading
the article - it's about the best states for business, not a ranking of lowest
unemployment. What's funny is that you bring up Minnesota, Hawaii,
Vermont, and New Mexico, but they're not even listed among the top 10 states in
the article. Nice misdirection of topics though. At least it's
I'm really hoping Fed44 was being sarcastic..however..that does lead to the
point of let's do a study of the best states to be an employee in. Categories,
wages paid, security of employment, environment (air, water etc.), level of
worker autonomy, company contribution towards retirement.
Get rid of child labor laws. Great idea. Instead of overburdening our
underfunded schools with more students they could go to work in the factories
and farms. No more need for immigrant labor, our children could fill those
service sectors jobs. Of course with our children working all day they would be
to busy and tired for juvenile mischief, drugs, alcohol,etc. And all that extra
income could really help struggling families keep their homes and raise their
standard of living. Pure genius. I wish I would have thought of that. Would
they get released time to attend seminary classes? Just wondering.
"This won't really help because right now we are not competing with other
states, we are competing with other countries. Until we get rid of minimum wage
and end child labor laws we will not be able to compete with third world
countries. Business will go were they can get the cheapest labor and no
regulations, and that is third world countries."Here's a better
idea.... One that actually solves problems AND raises the quality of life of 3rd
world countries.Have all 3rd world countries create a minimum wage
and actually enforce it.Have all 3rd world countries create and enforce
child labor laws. Hows that repubs? The CEO might need to earn a
few less billion, but at least kids won't have to work 16 hour days for pennies.
As far as Utah being a great state for business? Of course it is!
Hardly any regulations, all laws are slanted for business owners (they can fire
you at any moment for any reason), and a ton of desperate college kids needing
something... Anything!!! To help pay for school.
Corporate welfare pays off big for Utah legislators.
Congrats to the Union Lefties for finding the dark cloud in the silver lining.
Is there anything bad about the fact that Forbes ranks Utah #1 for business?
Does that not have the potential to create even more jobs here in the future?
Or do those jobs not count because they are not Union jobs?
I've lived in a lot of other states and one very important thing that Forbes
left out is that Utahns really value hard work. You can talk politics all you
want but as a recruiter working at a national recruiting firm, the thing that
I've found that sets Utah apart are the hard working Utahns.Many
other places (like Wall Street) the people are looking for easy money
manipulating non tangible ideas and loop holes, but non tangibles don't create
jobs, hard working people and people with tangible ideas create jobs.I've heard that banks create jobs or that republican plans create jobs or that
democratic plans create jobs, but it's been my experience that good people and
tangible ideas create jobs.
@DSBFunny your blue state list didn't include Minnesota, Vermont,
Hawaii, and New Mexico - all with lower unemployment rates than Utah. You conveniently forgot also that there are plenty of red states at the bottom
of the list - Nevada, Mississippi, South Carolina, Florida, and Georgia. Nice cherry-picking of facts, though. At least it's entertaining.
USAlover | 11:44 a.m. Nov. 23, 2011Salt Lake City, UTThe best thing
for business is a paucity of Liberals. Duh... I admit that I do not
know the answers to the following 2 questions:1) Has there ever been a
Utah whistle blower against a business?2) Has a BYU business school
professor ever published a paper criticizing s business? If I read the
FreedomWorks criticism correctly, they would have ranked Utah higher if they
loosened their alcohol use laws and imported some Nevada brothels.
@ Humble opinion, minimum wage only helps a small amount of people, and it hurts
a larger amount. Continuing to raise a price floor is not good economics, and
causes for a huge dead weight loss.
@FDRfan - yes, we would all be so better off if we were more like, say Michigan
and California, for example. Bluest of blue states and clearly more enlightened
about the plan to enhance humanity by going bankrupt. I'm sure George Soros
would concur. All would be so much better in Zion if only we could attract more
undesirables, had higher unemployment, soaring debt, and bankrupting pensions
and entitlements.You're really denigrating our state for being top
on this list? I guess when conservatives hyperbolize that liberals want to
destroy our country, they're specifically talking about people like you who find
the negative in every success, at least if it comes in the "reddest of the
red states." I'm guessing you probably find nothing wrong with the top-10
rankings of Washington and Oregon.
This past week behind closed doors (of course!!) The republicans have set up a
bill written by large company lawyers to cut back on any government attempt
to regulate air, water, radiation et. al. ( Thanks Senator Margaret Dayton).
Utah will be the best place to run a dirty industry....watch your breathing from
David Bradford said, "We have a very high-educated populace.If
that's true, thank Utah parents and their local public schools for performing
miracles with the lowest per student funding in the nation. Then tell your
state legislators to back off with their constant attacks on public educators.
Wow! Forbes has ranked Utah #1. I'm sure that Rupert Murdoch and the Koch
Brothers concur. Utah is the reddest of the red states, the brightest of the
bright and the elitist of the elite. All is well in Zion - well, after deporting
a few thousand more of the undesirables.
People are fond of saying that government doesn't know best. But in Utah, our
people has about the highest rate of bankruptcy, and about the highest rate of
being taken in a scam in the entire nation.Conversely, our state
government is about the beat run in the nation, helping to make our business
climate among the best in the nation.
'Until we get rid of minimum wage and end child labor laws we will not be able
to compete with third world countries.' - Fred44 | 12:07 p.m. Nov. 23, 2011 So we can work for 0.8 cents per hour with a 16 hour work day? This America's response: *Ohio voters reject Republican-backed
union limits By Julie Carr Smyth AP Published by Dsnews 11/08/11
No. No thank you. I would pick the well being of the
American people, OVER corporate profit, any day.
@Fred44"Until we get rid of minimum wage and end child labor laws we
will not be able to compete with third world countries"I don't
think either of those help the jobs situation.1. Get rid of minimum
wage. Problem: If some jobs are going to pay out less than they used to,
this could lead to maybe a few additional hirings... but it would also lead to
more people needing to have second jobs. 2. End child labor laws.Problem: You're now expanding the market in a demographic of people, if more
under-18s get jobs or have more hours working than that means fewer jobs are
going to those over-18.
Fred44: Is this supposed to be a government of the people, by the people, and
for the people, or a government of the corporations, by the corporations, and
for the corporations. Getting rid of minumum wage may help corporations, but
won't help the people much.
This won't really help because right now we are not competing with other states,
we are competing with other countries. Until we get rid of minimum wage and end
child labor laws we will not be able to compete with third world countries.
Business will go were they can get the cheapest labor and no regulations, and
that is third world countries.
How can Utah "soar to the top" when they were already on top last
year? Maybe "keeps the top spot for the second year in a row" is more
appropriate.The Utah unemployment rate was 7% in October, not 7.4%,
which was earlier.Anyway, congrats Utah.
well known peopele here work for less and companies pay less utah tax % than
many working class.
The best thing for business is a paucity of Liberals. Duh...