I believe in following the laws of the land. I believe in the LDS church policy
to immigrate legally, and for countries to have a right to enforce it's
borders/laws.I believe in go and sin no more, not go and keep
breaking the laws of the land.I would support a 90 day window to
allow those here illegally to go home, without the 10 year penalty for visas and
green cards, and promise not to prosecute for identity theft for just working
(felony. It falls within the Christian values of the Church. Rewarding the
continued illegal behavior does not fall within Christian values in my
opinion.The 12th article of faith would be doctrine.
Response to tenx . . . I like the reforms you've cited, but if you really
believe in these (order and continuity for the benefit of our society), then
you're NOT with the Chamber on this one. The Chamber wants open season on
American citizen workers and taxpayers, and caters to the greedy people who
profit by paying slave wages, starve out the legitimate workers, and let the
taxpayers cover all the benefits. THAT'S the Chamber's idea of
"reform," and that's what "reform" means to most politicians
who like and support the invasion that's destroying this country.
but not all fit into this category. A lot come to get money and use our charity
to their benefit. If they are coming here because of a real threat then they
need to be grateful enough to this country to assimilate into this melting pot
and become one of us instead of trying to make this country over to make it the
land they left. There are poor ALL OVER the world. There are horrors going on
ALL OVER the world.. NOT JUST MEXICO! We need to be fair to ALL people who want
to come here and not just to the poor Mexicans! Please, even Mexico has laws
about coming into their lands, they would NOT allow Americans to enter their
lands like they are ours.I get really tired of people telling me
that I am a bigot just because I do not believe the same as them. One thing that
really scares me is terrorist that can use the same border entry as these people
do. I think that we truly need to secure these borders for our land to be safe.
re David NicholsI also was raised LDSI also was taught to hold to
the rod, that charity is the law of heaven. That OBEDIENCE is also a law of
heaven.I also was born and raised in America and were generations of my
family before me.I AM NOT a bigot or a BAD Christian because I honor the
law of this land and ask that others do the same. Because I am a faithful LDS I
would NEVER EVEN CONSIDER going into a land by breaking its laws and stealing
from its citizens and putting them at risk by taking jobs that the citizens need
or bring disease into the country to infect it citizens.When the church
signed the contract I think that it was reminding us that what we do, we do not
do in hate. I can deal with that. But, I also have no intention of being a old
rug for all the illegal aliens walk all over me as they take over my beloved
country.There are those who because of horrors they race come here to
escape. They have a right to be heard. con't
I was raised L.D.S.I was taught not to waiver, and I will always
defend the defenseless.I stand for what I believe to be right.I was raised in "The Greatest Country on Earth."And I always believe in "Forgiveness/Amnesty".To: Right.
@anti-liar, some questions:1. Is there any new doctrine or policy in
the Church's statements on immigration?2. Do those statements constitute
an official stance on specific legislation, or an effort to intervene in any
judicial matters?3. Would the First Presidency allow the Church's Public
Affairs Department to make official statements that were contrary to their will
or in conflict with the established principles of the gospel?4. In the
months following the statements on immigration, has the First Presidency issued
any retractions or corrections?
"...Hate Filled Comments..."You're credibility is gone,
right there, for thus bearing false witness against your neighbor. The assertion that ICE is dumping parents in the middle of the desert without
water and leaving them stranded is a lie. The implication that the
inconvenience of deportation is the U.S.'s fault -- instead of the fault of the
person who CHOSE to trample upon our sovereignty and laws -- likewise is a lie.
"Thousands of innocent Citizen Children now have no
Parents!"Also a lie. Deported parents are perfectly free to
take their children with them, thus keeping the family intact. Parents likewise
are perfectly free to NOT invade this country in the first place -- wherein they
often leave family members BEHIND in their home country, in which process THEY
break up THEIR OWN families.And to respect the rule of law IS to
follow the basic teachings of Christ. And it is NOT incompatible with
"love thy neighbor." "Let he who is without sin cast
the first stone". Based on your implied logic here, the entire judicial
system should be thrown out. And, of course you "accidentally" left
out the part about "GO AND SIN NO MORE."
I am sickened by the majority of the Hate Filled Comments in this Blog."America is great, because it is good, when it ceases to be good, it
ceases to be great."Alex De TocquevilleI see little
"Good" here.Deporting Good, Hard Working Parents from
their Legal Citizen Children, Dumping them in the Harsh Desert at the U.S.
Mexico Border into a Known "Drug War", to be killed or to die of
exposure where forty -two thousand Hispanic's now lie dead since the start of
the 2008 I.C.E. Deportations of hundreds of thousands with out even water,
perhaps will not be considered as Good, by God?Thousands of innocent
Citizen Children now have no Parents!Thanks to I.C.E., and their Black
Masks!For those "Saints" saying: "No Amnesty"
you are no "Saints", you are not even following the basic Teachings of
Christ.I olny hope your maker judges you more fairly than you are
now judging millions of other "Human Beings", and that he grants you a
little "Amnesty", I fear you will All Need some."Let
he who is with out sin cast the first stone". J.C.C.T.R?
@On the other hand "If the Church issues an official statement,
you can be sure it is sanctioned by the First Presidency and is in harmony with
both Church doctrine and Church policy."Sorry, but "You
can be sure" does NOT constitute the required priesthood authority, nor a
bona fide invocation of such authority, to speak for the Church. The Public
Affairs Department -- which actually issued the Utah Compact statements, and the
one that you refer to at 2:22 p.m. -- again does NOT, in itself, have a right to
speak for the Church (Handbook 2, 21.1.29). If the Public Affairs
Department -- or Elder Clayton -- is citing, referring to, or speaking in
agreement with ESTABLISHED Church doctrine and policy, or conveying a statement
SIGNED by the First Presidency or otherwise expressly invoking that authority BY
NAME to utter that PARTICULAR statement, then that's one thing. But
to say that the Church supports the Utah Compact, or that enforcement-only
legislation is likely IMMORAL? No, that is NOT duly established,
official Church doctrine or policy, nor can it be regarded as the OFFICIAL,
AUTHORITATIVE position of the Church, absent the signature of the First
@cjb:"For one it makes fruit and vegetables less
expensive..."Yeah, right... a head of lettuce will cost you
about 5 cents more.In the mean time it costs the US taxpayer
billions to provide healthcare, education, etc., to illegals. Send them home to
get in line for work permits to enter the US. Anything less is amnesty.
Amnesty only means their friends will be encouraged to come for the same
treatment.@DavidNichols:"Look around at America
since the beginning of the January 2008 start of the I.C.E.
Deportation/Incarceration Programs, and The January 2008 start of 'The Worst
Recession in U.S. History.'"Illegal immigrant deportation had
little or nothing to do with the worst recession in US history. The worst
recession in US history was a result of selling houses to people who couldn't
afford to buy them, using sub-prime mortgages and allowing said buyers to
qualify even if they didn't have income to pay for it. The pressure on housing
caused prices to soar over the last dozen or so years. And economists, as well
as common sense, tells us that housing prices (or anything) cannot continue to
rise, ad infinitum.
anti-liar says, "... the Church 'statements' in support of the Utah Compact
do NOT constitute official Church policy nor doctrine."If the
Church issues an official statement, you can be sure it is sanctioned by the
First Presidency and is in harmony with both Church doctrine and Church
policy.The Church's statements on immigration serve primarily to
clarify principles rather than to endorse specific people, documents, or courses
of action. These principles don't constitute new doctrine or policy, but they
may help people better understand existing doctrine and policies and how these
relate to the larger gospel picture.The Church has stated that:* it discourages members from overstaying visas or crossing borders
without legal documentation* the federal government must ultimately
resolve the illegal immigration issue* state-level enforcement-only
legislation "is likely to fall short of the high moral standard of treating
each other as children of God"* "The Church supports an approach
where undocumented immigrants are allowed to square themselves with the law and
continue to work without this necessarily leading to citizenship"*
immigration solutions should balance compassion, reverence for family, and
respect for "just and enforceable" laws
Oh and one other and most important reform. For companies knowingly hiring
illegals, a hefty fine (enforced of course) or loss of business license.
I'm with the Chamber on this one. One of the main comprehensive
"reforms" I would like to see is ENFORCEMENT!! Then another reform is
to stop all entitlements for illegals. Thirdly, reform the system so that those
who have come here illegally are then NEVER eligible to immigrate or obtain a
temporary workers visa. We may even tweak the legal numbers so that it
increases the number of legal visas say 10%. Viva LEGAL immigration.
They can pick up the phone and call me? Why didn't he say that this past week
or so when our legislative leaders from Capitol Hill made that trip to
Washington D.C.? I started laughing when I saw his comments. Made my day!
Thanks Salt Lake for opening your doors as a sanctuary city and state. We are
sure you will welcome the thousands of latino families now making their way, or
planning to get to Utah as soon as they can from AZ, CA, and elsewhere. Best of
luck taking care of all the essential services overload you will experience.
OK Danish American I got that e-mail too! LOL! My first thought was
"Nothing this administration does would surprise me." Then I
remembered,other counties have immigration laws,they obey and insist I do. Doubt
they would want a bunch of outspoken Americans who are broke,thanks to our
@NeilT Those who believe in enforcement of the law are
"extremists."A flat-out lie, by implication. "...punish people for being poor..."A flat-out lie. "...this debate is about race..."A flat-out lie.
Amnesty, and looking the other way at illegality, is "common
sense and decency."A flat-out lie, by implication. Persons who believe in upholding the U.S. Constitution and the rule of law
"hate hispanic people."A flat-out lie, by implication.
"Thank you LDS church leaders for taking the high ground on
immigration."The Church leaders who have spoken on this topic
have uttered their own opinions and those of SOME of the Church leaders only.
Only the First Presidency has the right to speak for the Church and set forth
official doctrine and policy (Handbook 2, 21.1.29). Therefore, the Church
"statements" in support of the Utah Compact do NOT constitute official
Church policy nor doctrine. "Let no man break the laws of the
land, for he that keepeth the laws of God [e.g., the 2nd Great Commandment] hath
no need to break the laws of the land [Article of Faith #12]." (Doctrine and Covenants 58:42)
The Federal government announced today they are going to start deporting people
over 50 instead of illegal aliens. That will solve the Social Security and
Medicare crises. They are easier to catch than illegals and being old they
won't be able to find their way home as easy.
I'd like to have a law requiring a posting in plain view to the public notifying
the public that the business does not E-verify or the companies it purchases for
sale items from do not E-verify. Let the public be informed and allow the
public to decide who they want to do business with. I'd especially like to see
these notices in the produce sections in grocery stores.
One of the local business unions, that goes by the name of Salt Lake Chamber of
Commerce. is rearing its ugly hand in the interference of government and is
pressuring the peoples representatives to abide by the Utah Compact. The Utah Compact is an agreement, a plan, an agenda, a plot to provide Utah
business with cheap labor as the republican businessmen of Utah act to defeat
and destroy the democrats. Their goal of defeating the democrats is so
important to them that the will totally disregard the welfare of Utah and
American citizens. One question. Was the dropping of the of
Commerce part of their unions name an attempt to make Utah readers think that
the Salt Lake Chamber is any thing other than a mouthpiece for the businesses
operating in and around Salt lake City.
@NeilT..Strongly suggest you read the article in todays Deseret News
"Dwindling % of intact families poses grave threat to childrens
future."Then I suggest you Google "Illigitimate Nation: An
examination of out of wedlock births among immigrants and natives"
and" Hispanic family values" by Heather MacDonald of the City Journal.
Also "Illegals Committing crime in America" Then please come back and
tell us that our "fears" are racially biased. They are not,they are
based on fear for OUR families and children.I am a Christian and I believe
in helping all in this world to have a better life.The LDS have worked
diligently through their many outreach programs to do this and their missionary
program is a treasure. It is unfair to ignore others in this world who need our
help and guidance while concentrating on any one group as this Utah Pact is
doing. We must look to the future,the impact on our children and grandchildren
in making these decisions. We must know who is coming into our country and their
immediate and future impact in order for us to stay strong and help in the
future.Legal immigration ,not amnesty allows for that.
I think the immigration laws were well thought out when they were established.
Quotas were set up for people with education. Special visas were set up for
agriculture to allow workers to come and work when needed in agriculture and
then return home. Now the Salt Lake Chamber wants cheap labor for local
business. The problem is not with the laws but people disobeying the laws and
"Public officials should create and administer laws that reflect the best
of our aspirations as a just and caring society. Such laws will properly
balance love for neighbors, family cohesion, and the observance of just and
enforceable laws." --official statement by the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints, 11 November 2010
It looks like the Chamber cannot wait for all that irresistible, mouth-watering,
luscious cheap labor. They gotta have it now.
@NeilT Sir me thinks you to be a liberal. The race card always enters the
argument with liberals. That is usually because they have no other argument.
Fact: no matter what race the offender is, a law breaker is a law breaker. No
matter what race the offender is who is a recipient of ill gotten tax payer paid
benefits, that individual is a mooch. You tell me how these illegals deserve all
the benefits that my taxes provide for them if you can. They come through the
back door of our homes and expect compensation . And you sir call those of us
who object to this abuse racist. It my objection is racist then I welcome that
label! The immigration system is not broken it is unenforced!
I know someone from Canada who immigrated here. They spent thousands of dollars
and jumped through hoops for 3 years before getting their papers. That is the
system in place.The system is not perfect but what is offered by the
chamber makes a mock of what my friend and thousands of others went through to
be here.There are literally thousands of others waiting for their
time to come so they can legally enter the States. What about them? Why ignore
people who are willing to play by the rules and allow those who are not to stay?
"America is great because it is good, when it ceases to be good, it ceases
to be great."Alex De Tocqueville1840's French
Historian/VisionaryLook around at America since the beginning of the
January 2008 start of the I.C.E. Deportation/Incarceration Programs, and The
January 2008 start of "The Worst Recession in U.S. History."Choose The Right.
The record deportation numbers can be misleading. Many of these are what are
called "reinstatements". A person who has been formally deported and
then apprehended again is not put through the deportation process again.
Rather, the original order of deportation is "reinstated" and the
individual is simply returned to their country of origin. In fact, this
administration has strictly limited the enforcement capability of ICE and the
Border Patrol. Reform is needed but it should first address the system of legal
immigration which can politely be described as cumbersome. Those who take the
trouble to try and come here legally should not have to wait years to do so.
Preference to their needs should come before those who jumped the line.
What's wrong with cheap labor? For one it makes fruit and vegetables less
expensive which increases anti-oxident intake. This in turn decreases heart
attacks, slows aging and keeps health costs, including insurance lower than they
would be otherwise.
Anyone want to own up to writing the compact yet? The Utah compact and HB116
were both written in secrecy in an attempt to push it past us before we realized
what it's true motives were. The Salt Lake Chamber needs new
direction and leaders. Their lack of compassion for Utah families and workers
will catch up to them. If you support illegal behavior, support the
Chamber, if you don't condone those who support illegal activity, then be vocal
and let them know, or just avoid their business.
Like California's Prop 8 dilemna, public officials (the federal government in
this case)can pick and choose what current immigration laws they PREFER to
enforce, regardless of the detriment to citizens.
@NeilT:"I have no reason to hate hispanic people or any other
ethnic group."The issue is not about ethnicity. It's about
obeying the laws of the land. A country without controls over immigration is no
country at all. The Utah compact equals amnesty because it allows illegals who
sneaked over the border without authorization to stay in America. Amnesty will
encourage more illegal immigration without end.
The last time the state delegates met the chamber put out all its propoganda
hoping that we would support HB 116. We did not listen and it was defeated.
The chamber is for the elite who want cheap labor and also want the average
american to pay the price for all the ill-effects of illegal immigraton.I will also be wise and not shop at businesses that are members of the
I am in pretty constant contact with my elected officials in DC and they know it
will cost them their jobs if they even think of amnesty.Not a threat ,just a
fact.If you look at this board you can see that the vast majority will not
accept amnesty no matter who backs it,no thinking person would. I do not have a
friend or neighbor who will vote for any of you, state or national if you open
the door to amnesty.We are not like California and we do not want to be like
California. Utahns want to stay solvent,moral and lawabiding and care for their
own first.I ask every business I use if they e-verify and if they belong to the
Chamber. I am very vocal about both,I would urge all consumers to do so.To the
business owners in this state I would say,hire Americans first ,then legal
immigrants and pay a fair wage.I will be your customer as I believe in buying
local if possible.
Those who support the UTAH AMNESTY COMPACT are about as conservative as
MAO/Marx/OBAMA.....throw the RINOS like Bramble/Shurtleff/Herbert out of
We don't need comprehensive immigration reform. We need to enforce the
immigration laws we already have. The Federal government needs to stop
preventing the States from also enforcing their own immigration laws which are
in cooperation with Federal laws already on the books.The members of
the Salt Lake Chamber benefit from illegal immigration, leaving ordinary
citizens to fend for themselves from identity theft, rising medical costs and an
overburdened health care system, and criminal acts committed by illegal aliens
(murder, assault, DUI, etc.)Our delegation to Washington should do
the right thing and sponsor/co-sponsor any and all legislation that not only
targets and removes illegal aliens, but sanctions the businesses that employ
Sorry, "Chamber" elites, you are wrong, wrong, wrong on this issue!Your "comprehensive" scheme is nothing but code for amnesty
under whatever name might pass undetected.We do not need amnesty, we
need enforcement. There are plenty of workers able to come here legally, as
well as U.S. citizens.The Chamber of Commerce has no credibility,
and politicians are free to ignore their demands with the knowledge that the
voters are against amnesty, regardless of what the fat cat Chamber folks might
"Immigration Reform" = Amnesty and continued unmonitored invasion.
Easy to understand . . . but also apparently easy to obscure and confuse. Hear
the bell ringing? Time to wake up, Utah.
By now, I think most people with the ability to reason can see what's obvious,
and there's no reason to complicate it. The cheap-labor lobby and invading
parasites have had their way with Utah and most other jurisdictions, and Obama
and most other politicians won't bite the hand that feeds them. If you follow
the money, you'll see that those who advocate for cheap labor (with the taxpayer
footing the bill for all their "social" benefits) are the same exact
people who are giving the huge campaign contributions to the sheep who fall in
line. The racial allegation is a red herring, designed to get thinking people
to fall in line as well.
Senator Lee doesn't believe comprehensive immigration reform will work. Why is
that. President Obama is deporting illegals in record numbers. Not enough for
the extremist's who won't settle for anything less than their punish people for
being poor approach. Some of the comments on here make me sick. Anyone who
doesn't believe this immigation debate is about race is only foolling
themselves. Common sense and decency will prevail over hate. Of that I have no
doubt. Thank you LDS church leaders for taking the high ground on immmigration.
I will continue to speak out on this issue and refuse to be silenced. I went
on line and signed the Utah Ccmpact. I have no reason to hate hispanic people
or any other ethnic group.
When I purchased a car two months ago, I avoided my usual dealer (a member of
the Salt Lake Chamber). I refuse to support a company that supports
We don't need any more immigration "reform" other than to faithfully
enforce the laws on the books. It's about 20 years past the best time to start
doing that, but at any given time from here on out, "now" is the best
time we will have.
Is there any doubt that the SL Chamber is made up of businessmen who profit from
Illegal Immigrants working for slave wages and force us to pay for the benefits
they do not pay? Is there any doubt that the SL Chamber does not give a crap
about the middle class citizen in Utah? Is there any doubt that a major bank in
Utah loans illegal immigrant money and gives them credit? I find it funny that
most of the SL Chamber is full of Mormon's who capitalize on the middle class
citizens taking care of Illegal Immigrants. If you consider that Mormon's pay 10
percent of there wages and then pay taxes that cover illegal immigrants, how
much are they really paying? Maybe they should stop the 10 percent so they can
fall in line with the rest of us.
CALL TODAY! AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! Call the Ways and Means Committee
led by Majority Speak John Boehner (R-OH) must adopt the Mandatory E-Verify Bill
(H.R. 2885.) and should be under ceaseless condemnation of challenging voters,
as never before. In just over two weeks, American activists have added Reps.
Chip Cravaack (R-Minn.), Tim Johnson (R-Ill.), Reps. Shelley Moore Capito
(R-W.V.) and Joe Walsh (R-Ill.), Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.) John Sullivan (R-Okla.)
Rep. Ralph Hall (R-Texas), Rep. John Mica (R-Fla.) , Rep. Roscoe Bartlett
(R-Md.) and Rep. Pete Olson (R-Texas)and as of November 17, Rep. Jo Bonner
(R-Alabama) is now co-sponsoring House Judiciary Chairman Lamar Smith's Legal
Workforce Act (H.R.2885.) New members are rapidly joining this marathon bill.
But dont expect Liberals or career Democrats to attach themselves to this law.
Eventually it will be the fresh faces of the TEA PARTY leadership that will
bring success. ONLY 36MORE CO-SPONSORS TO APPROVE (bill H.R.2885.)
"They're doing some great things," said chamber spokesman Marty
Carpenter. But, he said, the chamber would like to see them work cohesively
toward reform.Anything Marty Carpenter says is a lie! No one should
trust him or the Chamber...they have NO integrity!!
Under normal conditions, I don't particularly care for Chaffetz (nothing
personal, Jason), but in this case I agree 110%:"In the past,
comprehensive has been code for amnesty... I think the best path is to tackle it
issue by issue."And Mortensen is spot ON! The compact IS
disingenuous and it IS a sham! It IS a poorly veiled attempt at amnesty, and
everybody knows it!And this Chamber? Are you sure we don't mean the
"Star Chamber" here?
Why did the Salt Lake Chamber take out a full page add when they could've just
called our Representatives?I'm one to believe that they realize
they have lost their ability to influence on the subject of immigration and are
shaking the tree in a very public way to regain some ground. It's not so much
that they are trying to get our Representatives attention as it is that they
want everyone know that they still matter. It all of course is in vane as Utah
Citizens see the Utah Compact for what it really is and legislators know the
ramifications if they once again go against the will of their electorate.Ron Mortensen hit the nail on the head as far as The Utah Compact is
"None of Utah's five members of Congress four Republicans, one Democrat
have signed the compact, which came out a year ago last week with support from
civic, business, community and religious leaders."Would anyone
care to let me know the religion of each of these 5 members of Congress? Yes, I
do believe that religion does matter, particularly here in Utah.
We don't need "reform", we need ENFORCEMENT!LEGAL
residents of Utah would like Utahs' Congressional delegation to ask Napolitano,
Holder, and the President himself WHY they WON'T enforce immigration laws. Or,
get out of the way so the states can do the job they REFUSE TO DO!