Comments about ‘Utah Compact helped turn anti-immigration tide in Arizona’

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Published: Thursday, Nov. 10 2011 11:56 a.m. MST

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NeilT
Clearfield, UT

Prodicus Thank you for your excellent comments. Right on. I just went on line and signed the Utah Compact. All fair minded peoople should do the same. The propaganda that all undocumented immigrants are just here for welfare is ridiculous. The vast majority are here working low paying service sector jobs and illegal immigrants are not eligible for welfare in Utah.

Bastiatarian
TUCSON, AZ

>If a law isn't working

It works when elected officials and law enforcement officers actually have the integrity to enforce it. You can cite a law that isn't being enforced and say it isn't working. That's a typical straw man argument.

>or isn't moral

Expecting people to have the decency and integrity to NOT invade a sovereign nation isn't moral? Apparently, "moral" doesn't mean anything anymore.

RRB
SLC, UT

What is with the entitled to everything right away, that those here illegally feel they are entitled to?

And why do a group of people feel they are entitled to change our laws by ignoring them?

Prodicus, people from Latin America get 36% of our green cards right now. That's preferential treatment.

With our unemployment, and the federal government saying it's going to last for several years, we need our jobs. Guest workers are not needed, and agriculture visa's are unlimited.

Amnesty doesn't stop illegal immigration. And the Utah compact ignores future immigration. It's not about compassion, it's about cheap labor.

RRB
SLC, UT

SB1070 is not a "tough, hateful" law. It the same as Federal law.
Treating people illegally by raping, robbing, and beating like some countries, is harsh and draconian. Enforcing the law like sb1070 is moderate, and allowing people to break the law because we love them is liberal (or an excuse for an agenda).

The Compact has nothing to do with legal immigration, it was carefully crafted mixing legal and illegal to get support. To this day no one has taken credit for it. I find that very telling.

The Justice Department on Thursday urged the Supreme Court to stay out of a lawsuit involving Arizonas immigration law. What does that tell you?

SLars
Provo, UT

Greece and Italy are the gateway for Europe for illegal immigration. Greece is even building a wall. Is it any wonder they are going broke.

I hear a lot of complaining on here about due process. Realize that when dealing with illegal aliens, Americans have no real due process. Whether civil or criminal court, there is no recourse for Americans if a judgment has been made. The person can just go back over the border. National news is reporting that the two missionaries killed in the hit and run in Texas were hit by a Mexican national. He was arrested trying to cross the border. If he had made it, he would not of stood trial for the hit and run.

Countries all over the world deport people there illegally. Why can't America? Our deportation laws are the more humane and compassionate than other countries. I dare someone to find 10 industrialized countries that have more humane laws.

Bag Man
POWDER SPRINGS, GA

@Prodicus "The ignorance and bigotry that have been displayed in many of these comments is positively appalling. Hopefully the racism and hatred that have hijacked so much of the Republican party will, as the article suggests, soon be seen as a passing fad."

It is amazing to me that in the minds of so liberals that if you are against their perceived morality we are ignorant racists bigots. Great arguments for disobeying the rule of law.

I do not disagree their needs to be changes in the immigration laws, but because I support the rule of the current laws makes me a bigot seems a bit narrow minded.

SLars
Provo, UT

Here is a list of work visas already available. Athletes, amateur & professional, nannys "B-1" Border Crossing Card: Mexico "BCC" (many use this illegally to work) Crewmembers "D" Foreign nationals with extraordinary ability in Sciences, Arts, Education, Business or Athletics "O" Intra-company transferees "L" Media, journalists "I" NAFTA professional workers: Mexico, Canada "TN/TD" Performing athletes, artists, entertainers "P" Physician "J ", "H-1B" Professor, scholar, teacher (exchange visitor) nanny "J" Specialty occupations in fields requiring highly specialized knowledge "H-1B" Students: vocational "F, M" Temporary agricultural workers "H-2A" Temporary workers performing other services or labor of a temporary or seasonal nature. "H-2B "

Why do we need guest workers, they would already qualify for one of the established visas if there was need for their services.

Rifleman
Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: NeilT | 10:44 p.m. Nov. 10, 2011
"all undocumented immigrants are just here for welfare is ridiculous"

The news is reporting that the hit a run driver who killed two Mormon missionaries was a Mexican National. They were unable to say if he was in our country legally.

marcamus
goochland, va

The laws in Arizona, Georgia, Alabama, and South Carolina all do one thing -- they make it illegal to even appear illegal which is why cooler heads prevailed in the courts and struck down those laws. Pearce's efforts went beyond trying to control illegal immigration and instead made it a detainable offense to appear illegal (i.e. hispanic). Alabama did the same, only worse, a person could be detained indefinitely without the right to a bond hearing if an officer had suspician someone was illegal. Can you imagine driving through Alabama with an accent and having forgotten one's license? This is the non-sensical bordering on prejudice type of laws that got Pearce in trouble. The laws simply went too far in trying to address illegal immigration.

Far simpler would be e-verify with tax credits to small businesses for implementing. Take away the job carrot, and the Supreme Court has already said this is ok for states to require. Individuals with work authorization be they U.S. citizens, PRs or others with work authorization would have no fear.

marcamus
goochland, va

Coupled with e-verify, we can adopt some sort of work authorization for those who have been here a long time. The government for years tacitly welcomed those coming to work knowing it would benefit the economy. The government does not have clean hands.

A compromise would be a conditional permanent residency for those here since Jan. 1, 2007, who show no more than 2 misdemenor and no felony convictions, pay a fine, and pay 3 years back taxes. After 5 years of this status, they can apply for regular permanent residency, if they show all taxes paid, and have obtained a GED equivalent, and good moral character for the 5 years. Finally, after 5 more years they can apply for U.S. citizenship. People taking this route would be barred from sponsoring any family members. I think such a solution or one similar would be a great boon to the tax rolls and we would have far fewer people living in the shadows. Let's start looking at the great majority of people who want to contribute as a potential benefit. Those who cannot comply will be easier to find and remove.

marcamus
goochland, va

A final comment is that it is currently not simple to immigrate legally. Those who most want to benefit the U.S. economy, the entrepreneurs have the hardest road to immigration. Simply google the start-up company in silicon valley who had his case denied despite employing many U.S. citizens. It was approved only after CBS ran a news story on it. Come to think of it Google's founder would have a difficult time immigrating at this time. Current quotas for exceptional ability Indian and Chinese individuals deemed to be in the national interest of the U.S. must wait 5-7 years before obtaining permanent residency, about the same time as a skilled cook or bricklayer.

Even Senator Lee has introduced legislation to ease the red tape for these highly skilled immigrants.

tenx
Santa Clara, UT

Nonsence!

FDRfan
safety dictates, ID

I had high hopes and childlike faith that Utah would set the example and lead out in finding state solutions to problems that belong to the state. I lost that faith for a while but once again believe Utah will set the example on health care, education, immigration and all of the other social ills. Utah is in a glass house whether it wants to be or not. And it is so because, in large part, of individuals living in other states who have Utah roots or at least ties to the LDS religion.

1conservative
WEST VALLEY CITY, UT

Right now I count the number of citizens comments' in favor of enforcement at 47 here on DN. I count the number of trespassing advocates at 5.

Maybe I'm stupid, but that makes me believe that legal citizens PREFER immigration laws are enforced. Contrary to what Mr. Shurtleff wants us to believe.

@ "NeilT" I hope you understand that most illegal trespassers usually carry 2-3 sets of "i.d.". This allows them to receive benefits in a variety of illegal ways.

"marcamus" Please provide DETAILS of ANYONE being deported who is a LEGAL CITIZEN of the U.S.
I agree with you though that e-verify would be a good start on controlling illegal immigration. How would we KNOW they had been here since 2007? Sometimes illegal trespassers are LESS THAN TRUTHFUL if somebody asks them about details of their trespassing activities.

marcamus
goochland, va

@1 conservative:

Google the term deported u.s. citizen and you will see examples. There was an especially eggregious case out of the Atlanta Immigration Court where a U.S. citizen who had severe mental impairment was deported. The ICE officers never reported his mental disability and the judge signed off on the deportation taking the opinion of the ICE officer. The individual did not have an attorney. My point is that if ICE officers can mess up a case so badly, how will a backwoods deputy from rural Alabama who may or may not have racist tendencies enforce correctly the law. The law stated an individual could be detained and would not be eligible for bond if the individual was suspected as being ilegal. The possibilities for mistakes and even abuse against those lawfully here was simply too great which is why the courts struck it down.

E-verify would cause much greater self-removal without the danger of lawful residents being locked up.

TRUTH
Salt Lake City, UT

YES YES YES...The tide is definitely turning.....Gary Sumsion has just announced he will challenge the pro amnesty Gov Herbert in the GOP primary

Let's hope Sumsion can defeat Herbert by a landslide.......Go Utah Delegates and fellow conservatives....send Amnesty Herbert to the U looking for a job with Shurtleff!

Bag Man
POWDER SPRINGS, GA

@ marcamus "The laws in Arizona, Georgia, Alabama, and South Carolina all do one thing -- they make it illegal to even appear illegal which is why cooler heads prevailed in the courts and struck down those laws."

CNN "Judge blocks key parts of Georgia immigration law ... "even after this ruling, 21 of the 23 sections of HB 87 will go into effect as planned," Olens wrote in a statement.

I guess struck down means something different to you.

SLars
Provo, UT

@marcamus
Police in the US have the right to detain anyone until their identity is proven. It's the law. If a person is driving without a license, they can run a check on them, or have a friend bring it to them. Here on a visa? they have to carry it with them at all times. Those laws were not struck down, only parts were blocked temporarily. Mostly because they took immigration enforcement from the Federal government.

Unemployment is to high right now for visas for people here illegally. Since they broke laws, including working here (multiple felonies) they are not eligible for a visa or green card.

Over a million people come here each year. We have no entitlement laws that allow people to come when they want. They have to wait their turn.

Some in the government did look the other way and not enforce the laws. That does not take away their breaking our laws, there is no statue of limitations on illegal immigration.

Maggie
Saint George, UT

No AG Shurtleff the tide has not changed. You are trying to turn the tide ,but failing. You have gotten lost in the concept of social justice. Joining you in this quest is the LDS and Catholic Church . I am a Roman Catholic ,we invented social justice.You wonderful LDS folks are novices at the game of social justice and the guilt associated with with it. Do not go there! I moved to Utah a few years ago to escape the results of the social justice concept on a city and a region.I beg you to do what you have always done in Utah.Have a strong moral light and committment to your God,keep your families strong and obey the laws. No people I have ever lived among have ever been more committed to helping the human race,and you have done it all w/o the secular concept of of giving man a fish. You have followed the concepts of teaching a man to fish,an example of this is Deseret Industries. If you allow amnesty in this state,look at Ca, and many other states who blinked ,and their problems. Do not allow it!

Canyontreker
TAYLORSVILLE, UT

I am pro-business and for free trade to export more US goods and services. Yet, I am called a liberal by "Bag Man."
I need a two-year work visa to Brazil to sell my Utah goods or I need Brazilians to come here for 1-2 years to buy my Utah goods. But, I can't get the visa because of their reciprocity law; what the U.S. does to us we do to you. If we don't let workers in then we can't work there either. So, Brazil trades with my competitors in other countries. We are killing U.S. exports because of our fear of the world. Put, up a wall around us and we will starve ourselves.

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