TRAX is an utter failure. How much do rides really cost? Does anyone really
believe that TRAX is reducing traffic or pollution enough to justify that
cost?Have you ever been stuck in the lonnnggg lines of traffic that
back-up behind the crossings? Commuter rail make sense in densely populated
areas with huge numbers of commuters and narrow streets that can't handle large
volumes of automobile traffic. Places like Paris, London and Manhatten. NOT Salt
When will people understand that TRAX trains are much bigger than they are? It
is sad that the family will know have to bury a loved one and wonder what kind
of person he or she would become.
"NotBuyingIt | 8:00 a.m. Nov. 7, 2011 MIDVALE, UTTRAX is an
utter failure. How much do rides really cost? Does anyone really believe that
TRAX is reducing traffic or pollution enough to justify that cost?"I guess you haven't been to the Delta Center (yes I know it has a nuke
related name now) or LDS General Conference before TRAX was put in have you? It
makes a huge difference. More cars is not the answer, it never is.
Should this not be a sign to UTA? TRAX is a waste of money and lives. It's not
effective and it's not safe. If they are so dead set on keeping TRAX running the
whole system needs to undergo a major safety overhaul.
JohnJacobBlahBlahBlah @ 8:00So? What about the rest of the year?
Have you ever had to wait in the ridiculously long lines of traffic that are
created on the major East-Westroads at all the crossings? If they were
ever to do a comprehensive study of this money-hungry beast, I wouldn't be at
all surprised if they discovered that it was actually INCREASING traffic and air
pollution. Not to mention costing all that money......
@NotBuyingIt, it is easy to throw out the claim that TRAX is a failure.
Undoubtably you never use it, so it is a failure to you. But let's look at the
facts, as reported by the American Public Transportation Association. For the
second quarter of 2011 (the last quarter for which numbers are available), TRAX
average daily ridership was 43,500 people.Now obviously not all of
those people travel the entire distance of the line, but even if you
conservatively take 15,000 round trip rides that would otherwise hit I-15 at
rush hour, you are talking real congestion and real pollution.Have I
ever been stuck in traffic at the crossings? Yes, but it's no worse than
waiting in at a traffic signal to cross State Street. In case you hadn't
noticed, in the last 20 years, Salt Lake has gone from being a rural to an urban
county, and the density continues to grow.By your logic, one could
say that the Legacy Highway is a failure, because only a fraction of commuters
use it. All transit options serve a purpose and fill a specific need.
NotBuyingIt:In what way is TRAX an utter failure? TRAX has succeeded
beyond UTA's wildest dreams. More people ride than they initially expected
would. Studies have shown that it does indeed reduce pollution, and any idiot
can see it reduces traffic. 65,000 people ride it everyday. I've had to stop for
a train before (never seen lonnnggg lines), but I expect the lines would be
longer if those 65,000 people were driving instead of riding TRAX. As somebody
who used to ride TRAX when I worked downtown, I can say that the travel time to
work was virtually the same for most days, and actually much quicker in the
winter when we had snow storms because I wasn't stuck in I-15 traffic. Also, my
ride in to work was very stress free. There may be a few drawbacks to TRAX, but
there are plenty of drawbacks to driving. For me, TRAX is a huge success.
NotBuyingIt | 9:01 a.m. Nov. 7, 2011 MIDVALE, UTJohnJacobBlahBlahBlah @ 8:00Seeing as you have resulted to name
calling instead of speaking like an adult I am sure the rest of the readers will
take you much less seriously as I have now done. My facts are valid and there
are year round events, not just Jazz. Sorry you have to wait but I am sure you
can get a smart phone and fulfill your life by insulting strangers on the
Internet for their adult opinions while you wait for the train to go by.
At Trax inceptions, the estimates were that there would be at least six
fatalities annually. Trains are the tinker toys for the Centralized planners.
Underground subways in human coop cities like New York, London, Tokyo etc. make
some sense. The subsidized cost of the trains here in the roomy west would
enable the taxpayer to buy every rider a new porche annually. Other states have
refused the implementing and intitial funding for these boondoogles. Utah's
traffic is not even close to a problem. Guns, autos, rural landholders are a
terrible annoyance even fear inducing to our collectivist rulers. Anything
allowing individual decision making and freedom. I'm a prophet so here's my
prophesy. By the end of the century, world population will have dropped 25%.
Mankind will be supported and sustained by technologies and energies unknown and
undrempt of by most today, collectivist models of economics will collapse long
before the end of the century and new models will have to be envisoned. Long
before that, these White Elephant trains and their tracks will be ripped once
Re: NotBuyingIt | 8:00 a.m. Nov. 7, 2011 "TRAX is an utter
failure."Try telling that to the thousands who leave their cars
in free TRAX parking lots and save $0.55 a mile while avoiding the
"lonnnggg lines of traffic" you yourself acknowledge.May I
suggest that if you want to avoid the "lonnnggg lines of traffic" take
TRAX and save.
How about they build a retaining rail so that people don't get pushed or sucked
under the trains from the platform?
60,000 people ride the trains everyday.As sad as this is incident is
-- I'm not an expert -- but, I'm guessing - that per capita -
there are still more people dying on the roads and Freeways than by train
accidents.It took 80 years to get seat belts in cars, and people
still don't use them today.Do we need to make some adjustments?
Absolutley.Do we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater?
Well, obviously we are getting conflicting reports on ridership numbers. One
poster says 43,500 rides a day; another claims 65,000 rides a day. The number I
have frequently heard is 25,000 a day, but that was before the new westside
routes opened so I assume it is higher now. But what you really need to do is
look at the number of PASSENGER MILES on TRAX and figure out what percentage
that is of all miles driven within the county by all motor vehicles to see if
TRAX is really reducing traffic and pollution enough to justify the staggering
cost. I would bet my house that TRAX reduces total motor vehicle miles by less
It's been said that the people of Utah are a special breed. As one who has spent
time in some of the major cities on the east coast I can attest to that. There
is a definite simplicity here and a certain state of ignorance about how the
world works. People here just don't function on the same level as people in
Atlanta, Charlotte, DC or New York. Now that's not necessarily a bad
thing. This simplicity gives SLC a friendly feel and small town atmosphere.
People are kind, laid back and generally trusting. However SLC is still a big
city and has many of the dangers and problems that come with being a big
city.I believe our leaders are trying to bring SLC in line with
other modern cities, but I don't believe the people are quite ready for that to
happen. These trains are a new thing and are very much a marvel to citizens.
There hasn't been enough time and effort put into safety and public awareness
programs, and it shows. The public *must* be made to take these trains and the
dangers they pose seriously or there will be more deaths.
TRAX is a waste of money and it needs to be shut down. All it manages to do is
suck needed money away from the bus service, run over people, and run into cars.
The people should not wait for UTA to shut it down. We should contact our
representatives in the legislature and have them pass a law to shut it down.
TRAX just seems to draw money and blood, it is indeed, a failure. Time to
recognize it and move on.
DeltaFoxTrot @ 10:24 TRAX is NOT new. It has been in service since 1999. That is
a dozen years. The problem isn't that people are simple, as you claim. The
problem is that TRAX was a bad idea from beginning and it is also inherently
dangerous. Cars, pedestrians and trains sharing the same roads are bound to run
into each other. Further, the fares paid by riders doesn't come close to
covering the cost of the massive boondoggle. Commuter rail makes sense in
densely populated areas with vast numbers of commuters and narrow streets that
cannot handle large volumes of vehicle traffic. None of which applies to the
Salt Lake Valley.
NotBuyingIt & OK: Cars, buses, trains, and airplanes are also inherently
dangerous. Let's contact our lawmakers and have these shut down as well. In
fact, bicycles, horses, and even pedestrians are also inherently dangerous so
let's shut them down as well. Where does that now leave us? I guess we will all
be working from home since we can't seem to find a safe way to get to work.
I have been to SLC, Utah and rode the Trax and never a problem. I beleive that
if people would pay attention when they are around Traxs Platforms no loud music
talking on the phone and horse playing around the Traxs and I have seen this
frist hand. The people need to learn, it's hard, but safety frist around the
trains, autos, and machinces. I guess what I am saying safety frist anything
else second. from what I have read in the papers the last few weeks people like
to risk their lifes around the Traxs bymaking bad deceisons it a fact.
@NotBuyingIt: Considering the liquor and sex laws here are stuck in the 1800's I
would consider anything that happened within the last 25 years to be
"new" for SLC.
@ NotBuyingIT-Do you just copy and paste your standard boiler plate
anti-Trax talking points each time an article about Trax is published? You're
beginning to sound like a broken record.
Re: NotBuyingIt | 10:22 a.m. Nov. 7, 2011 If you don't like TRAX
please don't use it. It will make the ride a little less crowded for those who
chose not to drive bumper to bumper on I-15.
Don't like I-15? That's what 215 is for. Traffic on the beltloop is rarely
backed up. I avoid 15 at all costs, driving on it really scares me.
The original Sandy to downtown line is usually full or almost full. The trains
to the U. are usually close to full also, (although they use less cars). The
new West valley and Daybreak lines have VERY FEW riders.Each time
UTA starts another "choo choo" they TAKE AWAY buses. UTA
assumed that because the first Sandy line was successful, ALL OTHERS would also
be successful.Rumor is; they're already having to heavily subsidize
frontrunner to keep it moving (beyond the "normal" subsidies).I would like to see an OUTSIDE audit of UTA concerning: how many folks
ride, how many folks are NOT PAYING their fares, and how much total budget goes
to the "choo choo's".
---Fitness Freak | 5:35 p.m. Nov. 7, 2011 Salt Lake City, UTRumor
is; they're already having to heavily subsidize frontrunner to keep it moving
(beyond the "normal" subsidies).---\So we can post rumors
on these forums? Awesome.
There is definitely a design flaw that is causing all of these deaths.
I love trax and use it whenever I can. I love the price, the convenience and the
option to use it.I am just really puzzled by the unbelievable amount
of people, cars, trucks, bicycles etc hit by it.
@Fitness FreakYou are aware (I assume) that the Daybreak line and
the University line are one and the same, right? How many buses out
there can carry 400 passengers every 15 minutes? I'd like to see it.
Thank you Jarren Smith for your excellent comment. No, question that the effort
to be less expensive has led to design flaws that come with inherent safety
risks. Sadly this is one of the costs of having a ground based system in dense
pedestrian and light vehicle traffic areas. It is one the reasons that in urban
locations such transit systems are either elevated or below ground. The system
is necessary and great addition to the transportation system, but costs of
operation need to be fully paid by the users. Further, new construction needs
to have its own tax base and not continue to raid the transportation funds
generated by vehicles through gas taxes. This misuse of funds is the reason for
unkept roads, bridges, etc. which the administration now asks for additional
monies to support. More used it over there, now give me some more so I can use
on what that money was suppose to pay for.
@Fitness FreakSure, by the time you get out to Daybreak there aren't
many riders left on the train. It's the end of the line, in an area still
building out. But through Midvale and West Jordan the rider count is pretty
comparable to what I used to see on the Sandy line at about the same distance
from downtown.It may just be a 'choo-choo' to you, but the rest of
us have grown up and learned to get out of our cars.
I don't live in the Salt Lake Valley, but when I come to town (often), I love
the Trax...it is worth it to not have to fight downtown traffic and find a place
to park, then pay $$ to park...etc. For me, it's also much faster to get to
downtown, and then around downtown.I think it's time will come.
Like all "new" things, it takes some getting used to.I
loved the comment about the liquor laws and 25 years, BTW...
The Deseret News is reporting that: "A 51-year-old man was killed in an
auto-pedestrian accident Tuesday morning." Opponents of TRAX like to
ignore or gloss over auto related deaths .... probably because they are much
Even with all the accidents we have seen involving TRAX this year, I would bet
that we have more deadly accidents on the road involving cars every month than
we have had the entire year with TRAX. We just need to learn common sense such
as don't cross the tracks when the train is coming, don't try to cross the
tracks when the arms are down even if there is no train in sight, and be aware
of your surroundings. If we did that accidents involving TRAX would be a
rarity.As for the lack of ridership on the West Valley line, I think
part of the reason is that there isn't very much parking available close to the
stops that serve that line (2 of the 4 stops don't have park and ride lots) so
people that might drive to TRAX and then ride it might be discouraged that way.
I also think it doesn't go out far enough, if you took it out to the West Valley
Fitness Center or even took it out to Magna you would probably have a lot more
people riding since the stops would serve a lot more people along the way.