A weekly update for Cougar fans actually bringing up Sagarin rankings, and
strength of schedule. Facts, not opinions.Current Sagarin Rankings,
a key component of the BCS formula:Utah# 42, SOS #27BYU# 57,
SOS #85Average Opponent Ranking:Utah #62.8BYU #92.8Best wins:Utah #57 BYU, #65 Pitt, #67 Arizona, #72 Montana State.
Plays #52 UCLA Saturday.BYU #86 Central Florida. After Saturday, Utah
will have 5 wins better than anyone BYU has beaten this year.Worst
Opponents: Utah #130 Colorado. Only team ranked above #94 that Utah
plays.BYU #100 Ole Miss, #110 SJSU, #126 NMSU, #135 Idaho, #207 ISU.Myth about Utah's easy late schedule:#52 UCLA is 34 spots higher
than anyone BYU will have beaten this year. #94 WSU is exactly 1 spot above #93
Oregon State, who BYU already played. And as bad as #130 Colorado is, they
would be the 3rd-4th worst team on BYU's schedule.Some actual facts
for the Duckhunter's of the world.
Duckhunter:As had been noted, I DO have the support to prove that
the Y received more money from Utah's bowl revenues than the other way around.
However, as has been noted you don't have the stones to accept the terms. You
even admitted to having seen my proof, yet you now deny its existence. As soon
as I prove it again, you will revert back to denying its existence. That is why
I am requiring you to accept the terms BEFOREHAND, so I can continue linking
readers back to this very comment thread that will prove your lack of integrity
and credibility.If you - or any OTHER cougar fan - really believed I
had nothing, you all would have eagerly backed me into a corner and made look
like a fool. However, you all KNOW that I am NEITHER, and rather DO have
something; something that you all desperately want to keep hidden. And that is
why you will continue to flee, and/or attempt to change the basis of the
argument. All of your tacit refusals to accept my challenge PROVES that you know
and agree that Utah's bowl revenues exceeded the Y's.
@utahute16When have I ever said I don't enjoy driving you to the
edge of insanity on utah articles? It will be sad to see another insecure
teenager with obvious emotional problems have to enter the NPU up at the u but
it appears I have all but criven you to it. LOL!You spent your
Friday night at home counting how many posts I have on multiple different
articles. Now that is my owning you. LOL!
@swoopOnly if we play Adams State more than once. It can't be a
tradition unless it's repeated. @anyone mentioning past recordsWho cares? In the most recent years the rivalry has generally had close games
and practically alternates wins and losses. I imagine both will finish this
season with similar Sagarin ratings which will explain the fact that BYU is
probably going 10-2 and Utah is probably going 6-6 due to strength of schedule.
@anyone mentioning BCS conference invitesWe all know that in
the PAC-12 third party networks are a huge no-go for them and that is one thing
that would keep BYU out regardless of other issues. Frankly I'd have loved for
them to take Utah and BYU instead of Utah and Colorado but Colorado provides an
additional media market which that. BYU has consistently been in the 20-60 range
of the sagarin rankings the past decade and in case you haven't
noticed...there's about 60 BCS teams. The notion that Utah is worthy while BYU
is not is just rediculous. Incidentally the notion that Utah is unworthy while
BYU is, is also rediculous.
VegasUte"Utes don't have to go back to the 40s to be proud of
our school's accomplishments...we have a LOT to be proud of when it comes to
basketball traditions."Looks like U can add losing to Adams
State to your list of proud basketball traditions.
Here's a statistic for ya. 'Duckhunter' consists of roughly 15%
(15/103) of the posts on this article. I figured I'd check out his
activity over on the popular articles of the team he is a "fan" of.
One artice entitled "BYU football: ESPN partnership has been a boon for
school, fans" had 102 comments. 'Duckhunter' accounted for 0% (0/102) of
those comments. I figured, maybe it's an anomoly; so I decided to check out the
next most popular one. The next article was some Jake Heaps mumbojumbo. You
guessed it, Duckhunter came up with a percentage of 0.00 (0/89).Now,
let's look at this data objectively... I think we can all see who is truly
obsessed with whom.I don't blame Y fans though, I would be envious
of the Utes' situation right now too. Every week is something new and
challenging. Go Utes!
@naval lintAs has been noted you have nothing or you wouldn't be so
scared to post it. Obviously if what you posted was all verifiable and includes
all of the backing you claim then any rebuttal that didn't show an opposite
would be no more than an opinion. You don't need any promises you just don't
have what you claim and are running for cover.LOL!
Isn't it funny how the y? fans are commenting about Utah basketball. Utes don't
have to go back to the 40s to be proud of our school's accomplishments. Unlike
the y?, we have a LOT to be proud of when it comes to basketball traditions. We
are down now, but that will turn around as it always does. The y? has had two
decent players in their entire history - Danny Ainge and Dimmer. Where did they
get with both of these players? Not even to the final 4. The y? holds two NCAA
tournament records in ineptitude that will never be broken: Most tournaments
without a final 4 appearance and most consecutive first round losses. Nice
legacy.Go Utes!! Onward and Upward!!BTW, have fun with
the Toreros, the Dons and the Pilots - and their junior high school gyms!!!
@scenic view,"You're delusional"Haha yes,
Robbie Bosco, Sports Illustrated, myself, and everyone not wearing blue goggles
are delusional. But you aren't delusional at all for thinking that in 2011, you
could essentially beat Wyoming 12 times and be awarded a National
Championship."Utah 2004 got into a BCS game by only playing 3
regular season games against teams with winning records." Yes,
and Utah wasn't awarded a National Championship, or even a shot at it in 2004,
against a more difficult schedule than '84 BYU. Thank you for making my point,
once again. Your "NC" trophy should be in the shape of a loophole.
Duckhunter:No. My post will be complete with verifiable sources.
Without the sources, it wouldn't hold any more weight than when cougar fans make
up their own dubious facts. Since the DNews does not permit URLs, I won't be
able to provide you with the links, but I will be able to provide
"Google" search engine keywords sufficient for anyone who wishes to
verify.Furthermore, should any of my values be deemed inaccurate,
inspectors can refute them, but ONLY by providing sufficient Google search
engine keywords for anyone who wishes to verify. That's all within acceptable
debate terms.What is NOT permitted, are rebuttals with NO substance.
In other words, you cannot say, "Your facts are wrong" to anything
substantiated by my links unless you have something to back that up. Afterall,
how can someone say my facts are wrong if they don't know what facts are
right?You say I don't want my alleged "false claims" to be
exposed. I say, if you're so sure my facts won't hold water, why wouldn't you
want to expose me?The truth is, it is YOU who fears being exposed.
And THAT's why you won't accept the terms of this challenge.
scenic view:YOU're delusional if you think voters DID consider the
cougars SOS."btw, BYU 1984 played 4 regular season games
against teams with winning records. Utah 2004 got into a BCS game by only
playing 3 regular season games against teams with winning records."The Y did play one more team with a winning record, but they ALSO played
12 teams. Utah played 11. So your point in irrelevant. What would be relevant
was that prior to the Holiday Bowl, the cougars' opponents were 55-79-3 [0.401],
and none ranked. Prior to Utah's Fiesta Bowl, the Utes' opponents were 53-72
[0.424]. Nothing really to write home about, but it's clear that Utah has the
edge in SOS. Furthermore, Texas A&M was ranked #22.After our
respective bowl games, the Y's opponents' record was 61-85-3 [0.409], with no
ranked opponents. Utah's was 61-76 [0.445] with a win over #25 Pittsburgh.
Again, slight edge Utah. I don't how a cougar fan can claim otherwise if both
teams opponents won only 61 games.Utah beat better teams, and by a
larger average margin of victory.
@MiPIf you google it you will find it says that the university of
utah won the 1944 ncaa mens basketball tournament. They did. They did not win
the 1944 mens basketball national championship. That was won by Army. Sorry but
that is just the historical record.@naval vetIn
otherwords you want to make false claims but don't want them to be exposed as
false. This way you can just pretend that you have "facts". LOL!
nosaerfoecioveht You're delusional if you really believe that voters
in the AP and Coaches polls in 1984 didn't consider strength of schedule.In 1979, BYU finished the regular season UNDEFEATED, but the Cougars
were ranked 9th behind several teams with one or more losses. Why would an
undefeated team be ranked behind one- or two-loss teams if strength of schedule
wasn't considered?The real difference between BYU 1979 and BYU 1984
was in 1979, BYU was just beginning to build their national reputation. In 1984,
BYU was coming off a one-loss, #7-ranked season, with an 11-game winning streak,
and two road wins over Top 15 teams.BYU continued that winning
streak in 1984, eventually building it to 24 games. Meanwhile, other teams took
themselves out of the running; Oklahoma losing to a very mediocre Kansas, and
Washington and Nebraska not even winning their conference titles and then
passing on an opportunity to play #1-ranked BYU in the Holiday Bowl.btw, BYU 1984 played 4 regular season games against teams with winning
records. Utah 2004 got into a BCS game by only playing 3 regular season games
against teams with winning records.
Uteanymous:"If you have the numbers and reliable sources that
can be independently verified, then why are you afraid to cite them?"What a carefully worded challenge. Essentially, you [and ALL of your
fellow Y fans] are saying, "No, I don't agree to submit to any stipulations
of honor because I know I'll need to rebut your easily verifiable facts with
nothing verifiable in its own right, but rather more frantic and emotional
nonsense, and I don't want to be called out on it."If you're so
sure I have nothing of substance, then what do you have to lose? On the other
hand, if you're sure that I'm not bluffing, then yeah, I can understand why you
TOO refused to accept the terms.Are there NO cougar fans who dare
read the truth? I thought not.
@Sportsfan, (and all BYU fans who agree with his statement)"By
today's standards, BYU would still be the AP National Champion"Thanks sports fan- this is exactly what I was talking about. It takes a
special type of fan to keep telling themselves they really believe that. "With the way the [BCS] system is now, there's no question we
wouldn't have been No. 1,"-Robbie Bosco"strength of
schedule" was not the hot-button subject it is today. If it had been, BYU
may never have made it to No. 1.-Sports Illustrated"There
is no way that any team would ever be voted No 1 without beating a single
quality opponent, by todays standards, where strength of schedule actually plays
a factor."-Everyone who doesn't live in Utah County
"Individual game point differentials are really quite meaningless - the
only comparison that really matters is overall record...".--SportsFanDetermining what makes one team "better" is
material spent hours on ESPN radio daily. There are folks on here saying BYU
(6-3) is better than Utah (4-4) and vice versa. Apparently, this has great
implications in life...For FBS college football, there are several
factors that can determine "who's best":-Overall record.-Strength of Schedule.-Tradition -The "been there done that
factor" (Boise St or Houston?) -Who Lee Corso choses on Gameday.-SEC, or not?-AQ, or not?-How many times they play on the ESPN
family of networks.But all else being "relatively equal,"
the head honcho, the big cheese, the "trump card" factor is clearly
head-to-head.-It decides the division winner in ties, all heck
breaking loose when there's a three way tie (i.e. Big-XII south a few years
back).-It decides the BCS NC, among #1/2.Who's better? LSU or
Alabama?We'll see on Saturday, when they face head-to-head.====Swoop and Duckhunter:If I try looking up "1944 NCAA
Men's Division 1 Basketball Tournament" on Wikipedia, what would it say?
Swoopy and Ducky my two favorite obtuse Y fans. Your desperation is only
matched by, well your desperation. This is Utah article so if you want be a
little brother go ahead. I find it funny Y fans like you are so obsessed with
Utah. You have you Y articles about games against Idaho State et. al. so please
enjoy. Utah is the PAC12 and your team isn't. Big East didn't even want your
team, so sad; Big Sky might be an option.
Naval Vet If you have the numbers and reliable sources that can be
independently verified, then why are you afraid to cite them?Either
post them, or just admit that your numbers are your own poorly researched
opinion.Your name calling and personal attacks prove nothing.
nosaerfoecioveht"Just wouldn't be considered a National
Championship by today's standards."By today's standards, BYU
would still be the AP National Champion. Fans are free to have their
own opinion of which team they think is most "deserving", but bottom
line, the ONLY requirement for winning the AP National Championship in 1936 or
in 1984 or in 2011 is finishing #1 in the final AP poll. In 1984, every major
selecting organization had over a month to study BYU's "worthiness"
versus Oklahoma, Washington, Florida, and Nebraska, and in the end, the majority
of voters in EVERY major organization selected BYU #1.StGtoSLC"I think Sagarin is meaningless"Since the Sagarin
rankings are one of the computer rankings used in the BCS ranking formula, by
extension, you must also believe that the whole BCS system is meaningless. In
2003, voters in the AP poll agreed, so they selected USC as the 2003 AP National
Champion, even though LSU won the BCS championship game.
phoenix:"If you really had accurate, verifiable numbers, you'd
post them with no pre-conditions."I REALLY have them. However,
I already know that cougar fans will deny the proof in the FACE of proof, but
provide no facts to back it up. Ducky impugned my credibility. I can kill two
birds with one stone [prove "Where's Stockton" wrong, and corner
"Duckhunter" into admitting he has no credibility, either in writing,
or tacitly by failing to meet the "pre-condition[ed]" terms.BUT.......if you're so sure of yourself that I'm bluffing, and
cannot produce those values, then why don't you call me out on it? Go ahead and
accept the terms that if I produce those figures that you cannot provide a
verifiably "more accurate" source of data, that you'll have to admit
that cougar fans such as Ducky DO know the truth [which he admits that he does],
but lie anyway because they fear the cougars being exposed as true
"pretenders" and irrelevant mid-majors that no AQ conference wants.
And you'll have to say TO Ducky as well.Cougar fans know their best
days are a generation behind them, so they try to fake their relevancy.
Ducky, I love how you still want to live in the 80's do you have a mullet? I
would bet anything you do. I'm sure you attend each Y game in your neon pink Y
championship shirt, and OP shorts don't you.Tell us Ducky what has
the Y done this century compared to the Utes buddy? How many times has the Y
beat the utes this century? How many BCS bowls has the Y played in? How many BCS
bowls has the Y won? How many undefeated seasons does the Y have? How did the Y
do against the U in 2011? I love you bringing up all your facts, just give me
some that happened this century buddy.
Deep Blue, if the Sagarin ratings are what "Utah fans are constantly use
[sic] to rank opponents," Then why are you trying to justify your entire
argument off of them? By the way, I think Sagarin is meaningless, and yes you're
right that the final rankings are much more important than the rankings from an
individual week. The fact of the matter is, however, that in all the polls that
people actually care about, neither Utah nor BYU will be included, so all we
know is that Utah was better than BYU this year and proved it by beating them
soundly. Get over it and make the best of the rest of the season. That game, as
fun as it was to watch (until it just got sad), means much less to me now than
the match up we have each weekend from here on out.
@Jealous: "...the beatdown was nothing but a fluke, courtesy of
the 7 turnover implosion by the Cougars...".BYU had 12
turnovers in the three losing games against Texas, Utah and TCU.All
flukes? Or just flukes against your bitter rival? @SportsFan:"...Former national champion beaten at home by rival by at least 44
points...not quite, but close2010: Oklahoma 55 at Texas
17...".2010? Did you mean 2011?Thank you for
taking the time to research my question.One last
"comparison"..."...Individual game point
differentials are really quite meaningless - the only comparison that really
matters is overall record...".So, Montana State @ 8-1 is
comparable to Oklahoma, Arkansas, Oregon, South Carolina, Nebraska, Clemson,
Virginia Tech., Kansas State, Michigan and Penn State? (1 loss, top 16 BCS
@duckFact: all of your facts didn't refute a single thing I said.
No one is denying that BYU won what was considered by 84's standards (somehow
even more of a broken systme than today's) a "national championship".
I'm glad you brought up the fact that we are living in the internet age though.
Ever google the phrase "undeserving college football national
champion"? You probably shouldn't.Personally, I have no hate
for the 84 team- I think they accomplished something nice by going undefeated,
even though they never had the chance to play anyone decent. That wasn't their
fault. Just wouldn't be considered a National Championship by today's
standards.And why would I drive all the way to Provo to see your
dusty trophy? If I want to see two much more impressive trophies, both of which
were won this century, all I need to do is head up on the hill :)
VegasUteYou forgot to mention what 40's music you're listening
to.In case you haven't heard, it's all the rage on the hill.
PebblesReading comprehension - Duckhunter never said the 1944 NIT
champion was viewed as the National Champion; in fact, he very clearly stated
that Army won the 1944 National Championship.All of which negates
the rest of your aimless rant.
Ducky and Just - reliving the 80's on a Utah blog. Too funny!! I
can hear the Culture Club cassettes playing all the way down to Vegas!Love it!Go Utes! Go Crimson!!
Now as far as BYU's football National Championship is concerned, well despite
your laughable attempt to try and pretend it wasn't all the trophies really
exist, and all you have to do is use your google and it is all right there.
Fidning utah's national championship basketball trophy is just a bit harder
since it doesn't exist. Nor can you google anything documenting its existence
either because, well, it doesn't actually exist anywhere but in the imagination
of utah "fans" like yourself.Once again utah won the ncaa
tournament in 1944. It was the secondary tournament of the day and utah played
in it after getting bounced out of the main tournament of the day which was the
NIT. Also considering utah was one of about 10 schools that actually fielded a
basketball team in 1944, everyone elses students were off fighting a war, and
they only played 3 actual games all season against competition no one ever heard
of, well even you little pebbles can figure this one out.LOL!
@pebblesAnother whiney post. Let's see "definative
proof". LOLTwo can play that game. Give us "definitive
proof" that utah was declared the College Basketball National Champion in
1944 as viewed by official documents etc.Of course you can't, there
aren't any. LOL!
Ducky, present definitive proof that the NIT champ was viewed as the NC,
official documents etc.. I can find none. It was somewhat disputed in the
media by many said it was the NCAA Champ. Jealous Y fan hearsay doesnt cut it.
If were going to tout NIT Champs Utah got theirs first in 1947. If we are
going to pick apart championships I say look at the joke of 1984 when a team
that beat no final ranked teams somehow lucked out since all the good teams lost
to each other. It helps a ton if you don't play any good teams like BYU that
year. Kind of like in the 2002 Winter Games when in a medals short track speed
skating race the two front runners tripped each other and some Australian guy
who had been a distant third won gold. He, like BYU in 1984 found out that
sometimes it is better to be very lucky than very good.
Naval VetIf you really had accurate, verifiable numbers, you'd post
them with no pre-conditions.---------------------------"... and neither score was as dominate as the 54-10."The
only highlight of Utah's first PAC 12 season, an "irrelevant" win
against a "former, non-AQ" rival.Gotta love the irony of
@nosaerwhateverI have never denied utah won the 1944 ncaa
tournament. They did. That is a matter of historical fact. And as such it is a
nice bragging point for the university of utah's basketball program.What utah did not do in 1944 was win the National Basketball Championship,
that was won by Army and that is also an historical fact that you can easily
verify in this internet age. Nor did utah win the premier tournament of that
time which was the NIT, in fact they lost in the NIT.BYU on the
otherhand did in fact win the 1984 Football National Championship. It is an
historical fact which you can also easily verify in this internet age. The
trophies and plaques are all within easy proximity of your NSL residence in the
BYU Hall of Fame in Provo which you can visit at any time to verify for yourself
their existence.Of course these two things are actual facts and as
such it is difficult for a utah "fan" living in denial to accept.
@naval vetOnce again I don't care if you post them or not. The fact
that you won't post them without BYU fans promising not to critique them and the
falseness of them is all the evidence anyone needs as to their legitimacy.And yes I remember you posting them before and yes they were laughably
inaccurate and based completely on you making numbers ups with no factual
backing. I don't blame you for not posting them again as they were a
low point in your posting history and that is really saying something.LOL!
@PugmanI think you are onto something there about Switzer. He was
definately a coward and just like Coach James at Washington declined to play BYU
when offered the opportunity in 1984 thus losing all credibility. The fact BYU
pounded Washington 31-3 in the 2nd game of the following season is more than
enough proof of the state of those two programs at that time.
I've said this before and I'll say it again, you Ute fans who try to discount
BYU's Football National Championship only hurt your own credibility on these
comment boards. They won the only way anyone could at that point. Their title
is as legitimate as any other school's before them.Of course they
wouldn't have won it today. Today's rules were created to prevent them or any
other program deemed unworthy by the elite of the college football world from
winning a title. It's all about the power and the money and who controls both.
phantomblade:Then perhaps YOU would like to agree to my terms. I'll
post the numbers, but I'm waiting for a Y fan to embarrass himself first. If
you're so sure of yourself, go ahead and agree to them. In fact, I'm thinking
you're going to have to since Duckhunter won't. He's too chicken!
Naval VetI recall that your numbers included alot of assumptions
that weren't even close to accurate.
@ Just the FAX | 2:50 p.m. Nov. 3, 2011 Olympus Cove, Utah ...
and neither score was as dominate as the 54-10.
@DuckhunterNot to worry I'm not humiliated, not even a unhinged
exertion on my part. It does seem as though your B/P is a bit high though! I
don't recall singling out the Y, maybe we just need a playoff system(?) But, if
you feel the need to defend 84' by all means state your case. I'm sure you have
plenty of credible stats...Does LOL means lots of love, you sure use
@DuckhunterIt's always cute when the band of little brothers come on
our articles and refuse to acknowledge the 1944 basketball championship, which
was accomplished by beating good teams, while touting the 1984 awarded
championship, which was awarded for beating no good teams.84 was a
nice accomplishment, and apparently a "National Championship" by the
standards last century. But it would never be considered a National Championship
by todays standards.
DuckhunterYou are correct. BYU played Boston College in the 1985
Kickoff Classic in the Meadowlands. Bosco threw for 508 yards in a
28-14 whomping of Boston College that could have easily been twice as ugly - BYU
failed to score four times inside the Eagle 20.Two weeks later, BYU
stomped Washington 31-3.
Duckhunter:I said I'd post them. All you have to do is agree to my
terms. The fact that you refused to do so just proves that you DO remember my
previous post and don't want to be PROVEN false. And since you DO remember my
numbers, and are denying its merits, this ALSO PROVES that you have no honor or
credibility. It PROVES it because you are KNOWINGLY denying that which is
irrefutable. Plus you never admit when you're wrong.
PAC 12 loves UWhen these 7 schools have won all 58 ski
championships, it's pretty clear there's hardly any competition, and even less
interest.Denver - 21Colorado - 17Utah - 10Vermont-
5Dartmouth - 3Wyoming- 2New Mexico - 1"Your
argument about our Basketball Title isn't worth the dignity of a
response."How are you going to argue that a team that only won
3 regular season games and lost their first post-season game actually won a
national championship when Army was named the 1944 national champion?Utah won a post season tournament that was just getting started, nothing more.
After further review...I stand corrected...BYU did beat Boston College in the
1985 kickoff classic, just as Duckhunter reminded me. Better yet, for some
reason I thought Boston College won. The point I'm trying to make her while all
this bantering is going on is, that ever since the inception of the BCS,
controversy has continually swirled about who should play for the National
Championship. As it was in 1985, the biggest loud mouth had his chance at the
Cougs, he declined!! Why? Don't know? I can speculate though...let's do that.
Switzer's team went on to win the 1985 National Championship title. Do you think
it may be possible that the reason he wanted no part of BYU is...#1 he would of
given them great bulletin board material from the previous season, or #2 he
didn't want to take a chance on starting 0-1 and jepardizing the season? Just
thinking out loud.
@naval vetI don't give a crap if you post them or not. I've seen you
post them before and they were false. The fact you won't post them again now
just proves they are false.
@PugmanThey played Boston College, you are correct about that, but
BYU beat the living crap out of them and it wasn't even as "close" as
the final 28-14 score would indicate. As I said Bosco threw for over 500 yds,
Kozlowski had over 200 yds receiving, and if I remember correctly Mark Bellini
and Trevor Molini both had over 100 yds receiving. Doug Flutie
graduated after the previous season and was playing in the USFL at that point. I
can't remember the name of the new Boston College qb that year but he had a
terrible game with Jason Buck, Shawn Knight, Kurt Gouveia, Leon White and
company pounding him into the ground all game long.
@portland beavers aka "54-10", "duckhunter hunter",
"kosta fesenko", "articuno BYU", "hondo",
"officer coolguy", etc.Another new screen name huh?
Duckhunter:"But go ahead and post them again so we can all get
a good laugh."Okay. I will post them IF...Either
"Where's Stockton" returns and admits he frantically and emotionally
made up his own valuation sans performing any research...-OR-YOU agree to either admit my values are correct upon reviewing them, or
refute them with verifiable substance [not "because I said so" or
"I have it on good authority" or anything like that]. If
you agree to these terms, then renege, then you are admitting that it is YOU who
has no credibility or honor.
@ DuckhunterWho did BYU play in the kickoff classic?
@ Portland Beavers | 12:45 p.m. Nov. 3, 2011 SALT LAKE CITY, UT Duckhunter only posts on Utah articles ever since the 54-10 beat down and his
self imposed 2 week absence - he's not a true BYU "fan". Like the
little kid who gets mad at mommy so they hold their breath. LOL
@PugmanActually BYU pasted Boston College 28-14 in that game and
Robbie Bosco threw for over 500 yds. Doug Flutie was already graduated and in
the USFL by the 1985 season.
Naval Vet "I think it's pretty clear as to who was the REAL
#1"Washington was invited to play the REAL #1 in the Holiday
Bowl, but chose to play a lower-ranked team instead. Eight months later,
Washington did play BYU, and the Cougars destroyed the Huskies 31-3.We all know Utah fans wouldn't have hesitated for a second to proclaim
themselves national champions if Utah had been voted #1 in the final AP poll in
2004 or 2008, even though Utah didn't play in the BCS championship
game.That's why all of these jealous "awarded"
championship rants are so funny, and so hypocritical.From the
Official NCAA WebsiteNCAA FBS Championship HistoryYear | Champion |
Selecting Organization 2008 Florida BCS 2004 Southern California BCS
2003 Louisiana State, Southern California BCS, AP, FWAA 1985
Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI 1984 Brigham Young AP, FWAA, NFF,
USA/CNN, UPI 1983 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI BYU's AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI (Coaches) national championships are just as
legitimate as the championships awarded to Miami and Oklahoma by the exact same
@ Swoop"10 ski titles - it's not hard to win a ski title when
the only teams that compete are Denver, Colorado, Vermont, Wyoming, New Mexico,
Dartmouth and Utah"You seem to be down playing Utah's National
Championships, so what your telling me is; These 9 National Titles that BYU has,
have very little value: Golf, Volleyball, Outdoor Track, and Cross Country. Your argument about our Basketball Title isn't worth the dignity of a
response."football may have begun before 1972, but nobody cares
about championships won in ancient conferences that died over half a century
ago"Hey Swoop you just proved my point. You Y fans keep
reliving a weak National Title and Conference Titles over a quarter century ago.
The WAC is pretty much ancient history. Look what happened to them? I invite you
to come back to 2011 and make sure your team can cash the checks they write,
they've made a fool out of themselves the last the few years, i.e. 54-10, the
2008 Quest to Perfection (Wasn't Utah perfect that year?), Rise up! (is this a
resurrection thing?) Hang in there Band of Little Brothers.
All you Y fans, WOW-and you call Ute fans "trolls" this is the
red-roundup your on. There is a lot of frustration out there, right? Utah is
in a conference, a very fine conference. All sports will compete in the PAC-12.
The U will compete just fine and they will recieve all the money that is part
of being in the PAC-12. BYU fans you need to adjust and get over your jelous
behavior. Your athletes, coaches are better than that, you just need to stay
the course and accept that nobody wants you. The University of Utah is a member
of The PAC-12 your not and never will be. Again all I can say is
I want to implore some history on you young folks who go back and forth and back
and forth like my twins did when they were three. Each year dating back to
around 1990 or a few years after that, a game was played called the kickoff
classic. Each year the national champion was one of the two teams picked to play
in that game. The other team determined by the NCAA. BYU's national championship
was contested most by Barry Switzer who at the time coached Oklahoma who in 1984
was ranked #2 who played Washington who was ranked #3. Switzer argued whoever
won out of his bowl game should be national champs. It didn't work out that way.
But because Switzer was so loud in his objections, the NCAA gave him his shot at
the national champs the following year in the kickoff classic. To no ones
surprise Switzer declined and crawled back into his hole. Byu went on to face a
young QB out of Boston College....I believe Flutie was his name. By the
way...Flutie rocked the Cougars!!
@naval vetNo you don't "have numbers". I've seen you post
them before and they are false. 1st of all you tried to claim a full BCS share
for utah and the Mountain West when in fact what was awarded was not a full
share like the BCS conferences received, it was considerably less, and the Mtn
West did not get all of it anyway as it was split between all of the non AQ
conferences although the mtn wests share was larger than what was awarded to the
other conferences. The truth is not one single mtn west team received anywhere
near the amount of money you tried to claim they recieved, actually all they got
was a few hundred thousand total apeice, nowhere near 1 million for each utah
bcs appearance like you tried to falsely claim.But go ahead and post
them again so we can all get a good laugh.
@laniusEvery single NCAA Football National Championship in history
has been "awarded". That is how it is done. Period. Despite deserate
utah "fans" like yourself exerting unhinged efforts to to discredit it
the fact remains it is exactly the same and every bit as legitimate as every
single other NCAA National Football Championship ever awarded in the history of
college football.Sorry to continue to humiliate you with the facts
but those are the facts.LOL!
@Swoopy; Utah was simply in the right place at the right time when Larry Scott's
Big 12 South/PAC 16 deal fell apart and the PAC 10 needed a placeholder to fill
the 12th spot in their roster. So your telling me that Holmoe put
BYU in the wrong place at the wrong time when the Y was pasted up by The Big 12.
Now your looking to be in the right place at the right time for the BIG East?
BIG East! BIG East! Oooo now theres a prestigious conference that is going to
survive. Collie was right, magic happens...... Utah proved it.Hang
in there Band of Lil Brother
Ianius:If by "real champion" in '84, you mean "the
best team in the country", then that would have been Washington. They beat
Oklahoma CONVINCINGLY in the Orange Bowl. The cougars, on the other hand,
struggled against a 6-5 Michigan team, who had no business in the postseason in
the first place, and who was down to playing their 4th string QB in the Holiday
Bowl. So I think it's pretty clear as to who was the REAL #1.Duckhunter:"@naval vet...you just make stuff up."Please link us readers to an article where my numbers didn't stand up to
scrutiny. Otherwise, I'll be linking readers to THIS page exposing YOU for
"making stuff up". If YOU can't back up YOUR claims, then it will be
YOUR credibility which is questionable.
Duckhunter:I DO have numbers. And I'll willingly post them just as
soon as that frantic and emotional cougar fan admits he made up his own.
Swoop, so who was the real champion in 84'?Duckhunter, key word in
your comment was "awarded" - kinda like figure skating...(awarded =
given, gift or prize not earned or won)
@naval vetNo you do not "have numbers" you just make stuff
up. That you somehow think anything you post is credible in the least is what's
Swoop:It's been YOUR fans who have brought up the order of operation
into which Utah became a Pac-12 member. Utah fans have said all along that
Colorado wasn't invited first because the Buffalos were preferred over Texas,
and Utah wasn't invited last because 5 other Big XII teams declined. Utah fans
believe we would have been invited ANYWAY. The HUGE difference
between what the frantic and emotional cougars -- who were left out of expansion
back in the Summer of 2010 -- were saying, and what I'm saying right now is: We
were invited; you were not.While the order Utah joined the Pac-12 is
immaterial, the order the cougars are falling in IS. And primarily because they
haven't been invited. Scott held back on Utah because he wanted the Aggies. TT
and OSU only received invitations because of Texas and OU. So what's holding up
the Y?Answer: They're less desirable than BSU, AFA, UH, SMU, UCF,
and Navy.AND...the Big East wants 12. If those 6 accept, they'll
STILL need one more team to get to 12. There's nothing preventing Marinatto
from inviting you. Well, other than you being not wanted. Haha!
@uteby3Swoop is correct. utah has never won the national
championship in basketball. The ncaa tournament was not even the premier
tournament in 1944 and utah had already lost in the premier tournament which was
the NIT. If you check you will find Army is considered the national Champion in
basketball in 1944, not utah. utah won the ncaa tournament that
year, a start up secondary tournament, and no one other than delude utah
'fans" thinks for one second that utah won the National Title.BYU on the otherhand was awarded the 1984 National Football Championship by
all of the major organizations that vote on that award and has all of the
trophies to prove it.What silly delusions you have.LOL!
sammyg,You are hillarious! Coming from the fan of a team who
declared their goal to be the national title before the season started, your
criticism of our bowl chances is just a laugh a minute.
@ Swoop: I can't believe you're going to try to say Utah didn't win the b-ball
national championship in 1944. The NCAA would say otherwise, however, if you're
going to go that route then I will remind you that BYU hasn't WON any national
championships in football. They were AWARDED the national championship in 1984
simply because all the teams better than BYU had beaten each other at least
once, whereas BYUs easy schedule gave them their only perfect season in school
history. So I guess you can't count that in your list of national championships.
Also, since apparently conference championships during leather helmet days don't
count, your national championship in golf doesn't count either because they were
using wooden drivers back then. But at least your women's cross country has come
through for you to give you some solid national championships.
Naval VetQuit pretending there's some sort of magical pecking order
in BCS conference invites; by your misguided premise that sooner BCS invite
order equals better football program, Cincinnati, Louisville, South Florida, and
Colorado are all better football programs than Utah.Utah was simply
in the right place at the right time when Larry Scott's Big 12 South/PAC 16 deal
fell apart and the PAC 10 needed a placeholder to fill the 12th spot in their
StGtoSLCTexas is ranked #9 in the Sagarin ratings, the same ratings
Utah fans are constantly use to rank opponents.Texas is ranked #25
Coaches, #21 BCS, and #26 AP (8 points behind #25 Auburn)other
Sagarin ratings:#46 Utah #55 BYU(sorry to burst
your arrogant "we're sooooo much better than BYU" bubble)#101 Oregon State#102 Utah State(imagine that, BYU's win
over the Aggies was just as meaningful as Utah's first PAC 12 win)#128 Colorado#130 New Mexico State(Utah's new
"rival" would fit right in with the dregs of the WAC)#56
UCLA#58 Arizona#88 WSU(Utah should beat every one of
their remaining opponents by at least 40 points)btw, current
rankings are only a snapshot, the only rankings that matter are the final
rankings; by season's end, BYU could easily be ranked ahead of Utah.
How is this possible in the League of Champions where there are no weak teams
and every week is an opponent with the top atheletes in the nation to play
against. Love the media hype for the PAC-12. But, it is a conference with at
most two teams with any quality. It is great Utah is now in the club, but
really how is this different than the MWC? Still, have to win and if you do not
win them all in all liklihood you end up in same old December bowls, and tv well
lets just say it is still difficult to find the game.
Jealous U [3 of 3]:The Big East had expressed a desire to expand to
12. With the addn of BSU, AFA, SMU, UH, UCF, and USNA, that brings them to 11
teams. So they need one more. Some reports have mentioned the cougars. Others
have leaned towards: Army, Temple, East Carolina, Memphis, and Tulane. So
THATs your peer group. So for all the talk of your national brand, youve been
classed in the same league as Army, Temple, ECU, Memphis, and Tulane. Too funny!
Jealous U [2 of 3]:We got in on our own merits. That makes us,
legitimately the Pac-12s FIFTH choice. And since A&M had no designs to head
west, Utah was arguably their FOURTH.But where would the cougars
fall in line?Answer (1) In the Pac-12, BigTen, and ACC,
you were never even considered!(2)In the Big XII, you were behind: Texas
A&M, Notre Dame, Arkansas, TCU, Missouri, West Virginia, and Louisville.
That makes you choice #8.(3)In the Big East, you fall in behind:
Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, TCU, Boise St, Air Force, SMU, Houston,
UCF, and Navy. That makes you choice #11. 11! Haha!
Jealous U, you cannot in good conscience call Texas #9 in the nation. They may
have gotten up to #9 before being exposed by Oklahoma then Oklahoma State, but
that's not what they were when you played them and that's not what they are now.
They are not even in the AP Top 25 at the moment. And if you are going to try to
use that logic, then list Utah as #28 because that's where we were after that
game.deductive reasoning: "the only bowl Utah saw was the
potatoe chip bowl."Didn't realize Dan Quayle was a BYU fan!
Where's Stockton:"BYU's total contribution still far outpaid
Utah's over the same long haul period... period!!!"Is that so?
How do you know this? What are the exact numbers? If you can positively aver
that the Y's financial contribution was greater than Utah's, then you MUST have
the figures to support that.Or did you just frantically and
emotionally make that up?P.S.: I DO have numbers. And you won't
like the results.
Correction:Texas trailed 55-10, before scoring a meaningless, late
4th Q TD.
There You Go Again "Has there ever been a former, more
deserving, football national champion that was beaten, at home, by a rival, by
at least 44 or more points, after the date, of their last national
championship?"Are you sure you couldn't have thrown 3 or 4 more
qualifiers in there?Former national champion beaten at home by rival
by at least 44 points...not quite, but close2010:
Oklahoma 55 at Texas 17Texas trailed 55-17, before scoring a
meaningless TD in garbage time.btw, 5-2 Wyoming lost to 2-5 Utah
State 63-19 the week after only losing to #9 Nebraska 38-24Individual game point differentials are really quite meaningless - the only
comparison that really matters is overall record.
PAC 12 loves U10 ski titles - it's not hard to win a ski title when
the only teams that compete are Denver, Colorado, Vermont, Wyoming, New Mexico,
Dartmouth and Utah(btw, tiny Denver has won more than twice as many
ski championship than Utah)10 women's gymnastics titles0
other titles - I know, you try to claim Utah's 1944 NCAA championship as a
national championship, but the real 1944 national champion was Armyfootball may have begun before 1972, but nobody cares about championships won
in ancient conferences that died over half a century ago
There You Go Again at #9 Texas, BYU loses 16-17at #31 TCU, BYU
loses 28-38vs #46 Utah, BYU loses 10-54Except for the BYU
game, Utah hasn't scored over 27 points all season.Conclusion, the
"beatdown" was nothing but a fluke courtesy of the 7-turnover
implosion by the Cougars.
I will be going to the LV Maaco Bowl where a MWC team will beat the Utes (again)
this year. You can pound your chest with your BCS affiliation, but here's some
news flash: you actually have to WIN games and be competitive with the elite
teams in the conference before you will ever SMELL a BCS bowl game. Until then,
enjoy the bottom of the Pac!
@ Scenic ViewWhat has all those great accomplishments done for BYU
lately?..........Exactly!Here is a new statistic for you.Total National Championships:Utah 21BYU 10Just an FYI
your statistic on conference titles are incorrect.Conference
Titles:Utah 24BYU 23Football did not begin in 1972. Quit
using your selective statistics.Hang in there Band of Little
Are 'Quest for Las Vegas or New Mexico' tee-shirts available for these last Ute
Wally WestAll great programs have great players -- best quarterback,
best runningback, best lineman IN THE NATION.Call us when U win your
first "secular award" to cherish and brag about.U wonder
what the point is, because winning such awards is beyond the wildest dreams of a
program that pins its entire football "legacy" on two bowl wins.
Uncle Rico"I thought conference titles are
meaningless."Understandable, coming from a fan of a program
that's only won 6 conference titles in the last 60 years.
senic view:This long list, of the legacy, of the past, is truely
memorable. "...BYU's era of domination:national
championshipsBYU 1Utah 0heisman trophiesBYU 1Utah 0national individual awardsBYU 15Utah 0national college football hall of fameBYU 6Utah (no players)ap top 25 finishesBYU 17Utah 5conference
championshipsBYU 23Utah 6...".The only thing you
forgot to mention is the 65,000+ seat stadium.Anyway, speaking of
national...In consideration of all of the national achievements
listed above, in your trip down memory lane, you somehow neglected to mention
the latest national reminder of just how far BUY has...fallen...that, of course, would be the beatdown, a rival, even a PAC-10.2 Doormat, gave
to BYU, 54 to 10, in front, of 65,000 adoring fans, at Provo, on 9/17/11...on nationally televised ESPN, no less.Has there ever been a
former, more deserving, football national champion that was beaten, at home, by
a rival, by at least 44 or more points, after the date, of their last national
scenic view said:"KamUteNobody cares about Utah's
leather-helmet era "domination", because Utah did absolutely NOTHING
on a national scale during that entire era.Conversely, during BYU's
era of domination:............Utah has two BCS wins...and NOTHING else."Not this again. WAC domination means
nothing. Well unless you are a wishful thinking BYU fan. Otherwise you would
have been invited to a power conference a long time ago.Well Utah
has something else, membership in a BCS conference. What does BYU have?
The same thing the past 40 years. And a Texas Jr. ego to boot by ruining the WAC
I have not been on the comments for one of these stories for some time now and I
remember why. It surprises me how much, for some people, the pleasure they take
from college football is tied to a comparison with a rival. I am a BYU fan and
love to watch them play. The enjoyment I gain during a season has very little
to do with BYU's former chief rival except on game day. I wonder why some people
have such a hard time enjoying their team's success without reference to a
rival. There must be something psychological there that is not common to most
BleedShowing up a couple times in the last 20-30 years doesn't really pay
all that much over the long haul...Big deal you had a couple of nice pay days in
the past 7-8 years....BYU's total contribution still far outpaid Utah's over the
same long haul period... period!!!
At scenic viewThere were not $50,000 payouts to Utah back in BYU's
glory years. Dream on. With all the history has 20 to 30 years ago,
it sure hasn't helped them do anything but get some Friday games on Espn. Why
does nobody want BYU in their conference except the WAC or WCC or MWC? Where is the big east or big 12?
Where's Stockton ??? | 7:04 p.m. Nov. 2, 2011"The entire old
Conference landscape is changing and when the dust settles it's going to be even
harder to reach that inner sanctum no matter where you land."So; its important to be in a conferencce?"It will still be
thehavesvs the have nots." Did you write Ned Beatty's speech at
the end of Shooter?
The PAC 2 and the other 10. What a stinker of a conference. It will be a major
embarrassment if Utah doesn't make it to a bowl game this year. A PAC 12
program ought to be able to absorb problems at QB and at least have a winning
record. Then again, after the beat down in Las Vegas last year, maybe staying
home for the Utes is the better part of wisdom.
@ scenic view | 6:59 p.m. Nov. 2, 2011 Cherishing & bragging
about secular awards? What's next crowing about a big payout from a major
@scenic viewdo you have a point?
Re:scenic viewI thought conference titles are meaningless. I mean
BYU doesn't value a conference right now.Utah 20 more wins head to
head.Utah more bowl wins.Utah invited to Pac-12, byu was
not.Utah 44 points better than byu.
Bleed Crimson....The BCS was created to intentionally exclude and BYU's Holiday
Bowl was the main catalyst for it's creation. Utah, Boise State and TCU's two
bit little also ran trophies were and still are to intentially keep them
feeling like they really accomplished something while still keeping them shut
out of the Club's inner sanctum. Talk about being slow on the uptake...Are you
really so naive to not realize how much Utah was intentionally robbed of in not
getting a shot at the National Title... especially after totally thrashing
Alabama and totally shoving Nick Sabin's words that Utah didn't belong down his
throat. I'll tell you right now...Being in the PAC is not going to elevate Utah
to Greatness...because they will never compete recruiting wise with the likes of
USC...They will never come close and Whitingham will soon be long Gone. Utah
may as well kiss ever seeing another BCS game goodbye... even in also ran games.
The entire old Conference landscape is changing and when the dust settles it's
going to be even harder to reach that inner sanctum no matter where you land.
It will still be thehavesvs the have nots.
KamUteNobody cares about Utah's leather-helmet era
"domination", because Utah did absolutely NOTHING on a national scale
during that entire era.Conversely, during BYU's era of
domination:National ChampionshipsBYU 1Utah 0Heisman TrophiesBYU 1Utah 0National Individual
AwardsBYU 15Utah 0National College Football Hall of
FameBYU 6Utah 1 (no players)AP Top 25 FinishesBYU
17Utah 5Conference ChampionshipsBYU 23Utah 6Utah has two BCS wins...and NOTHING else.Utah's
BCS revenue was not nearly as much as Utah fans pretend it was (non-AQ
conferences only get about half as much as AQ conferences, and that money was
split between all 5 non-AQ conferences), and considering interest and inflation
from the more than two decades Utah was a non-contributor, the actual amount BYU
received was a meer drop in the bucket. Conversely, even $50,000 would have been
huge to Utah back in the 70's and 80's when the Utes were earning absolutely no
bowl money and they were lucky to get 20,000 fans to a game that didn't involve
Deductive Reasoning. Would you prefer to live in the past? Here is the past.
56-30 for Utah. Here is some more 54-10. All those huge bowl games
from BYU brought very little to the conference in revenue. In 2004, Utah brought
in more revenue to the conference than BYU has brought in from all their huge
bowl games combined. Thanks BYU. The potato chips were delicious at
our potato bowl sponsored by Tostitos.
Chris B,I thought U said the U was going to the Rose Bowl this year?
Utah a top 4 team in the Pac 12 next year??? Oregon, Washington, ASU,
Oregon State, USC, UCLA, will all be better than Utah next year.
Bleed Crimson"Kind of like BYU getting their hard earned money
off Utah and TCU's hard work of busting into the BCS twice."Oh
please! Utah leached off of BYU's bowl money from 1974 to 1991
without contributing a dime. While BYU was busting their hump playing in 15
bowls, 9 of them against Top 25 teams, the only bowl Utah saw was the potatoe
chip bowl. Utah's BCS "contributions" were loooong overdue.
sportsfanforlife / PAC12FanIt's always about BYU, isn't it?Please explain what possible relevance BYU plays in Utah playing in the Rose
Bowl, this year, or ever.Utah beating BYU, gave Utah their only win
over a D1-A team with a winning record.Ironically, if BYU had beaten
Utah, BYU still wouldn't have a win over a D1-A team with a winning record.
Bleed Crimson- I said basically the same thing you did but got denied, oh well,
at least someone brought up the fact that BYU has eaten from others hands of
hard work before. I would dare say that in the last 10 years Utah has brought in
tons more cash from bowl games than the Y. Anyone?
Christy B said:"Dream on delusional mediocre team fighting to
get bowl eligible.The only rose bowl money you'll ever see are the
pennies your mom tosses in the flower vase.Your BCS membership
entitles you to sit in the high chair next to the big boys table, nothing
more."And BYU is still sitting in a high chair. Yes indeed,
after forty years of WAC domination, they are still in a high chair eating green
jello. Its like watching the Flintstones growing up, or even the Simpsons now.
They wear the same clothes in each episode. Will BYU ever get out of that high
chair, and sit at the big boys table?
@ Where's Stockton ???"Utah gets the hard earned money off of
someone elses hard work just because they have a foot in the door".Kind of like BYU getting their hard earned money off Utah and TCU's hard
work of busting into the BCS twice. Hang in there Band of Little
To Where's Stockton;Larry Scott would win the commissioner of the
year with the bringing on of Colorado and Utah. All conferences are jealous of
the new contract and the equal partnership among the members. It was the final
piece that brought on Billions to the conference and the championship game.Imagine bringing on Texas now! With them wanting a bigger piece of pie
and their tv network, it would have destroyed everything the Pac 12 (stood)
stands for. The bickering would have started. Sing with me Mrs.
Where's Stockton: "Jealousy, is such a lonely word".
Hey, Where's Stockton...What is a "rashion"?
54-10 to Christy BistyThe difference between 4-4 and 6-2 right now
is a mediocre quarterback over a poor quarterback. Utes will make a
bowl and any bowl they make pays double over any bowl tds brings in. The Utes
were humbled but with 4 starting linemen back, 2 new qb's coming in with Wynn as
backup, having all our running backs back and most of our defense, tall, fast
receivers (with d1 experience) coming in, all our current tight ends and one
year of experience, the Utes will be one of the top 4 teams next year with
Oregon, USC and ASU. For now, we'll gain our experience, our money and be glad
that we don't belong to the Island of Misfit Non Qualifiers with little future.
hey christy b sorry we dont have wac competetion to beat up on every week to get
bowl eligible as your sorry team. next time they can win a game that counts come
on the u boards and let us know. until then keep chest poundin about your d-II
level comp your beating.
Yes Chris... Utah gets the hard earned money off of someone elses hard work just
because they have a foot in the door. But until Utah earns it's keep there's
been no real accomplishment and I'm sure Larry's awful disappointed and quietly
comptemplating how to patch all the holes in his sagging twelve balloons. The
utes should consider themselves lucky and be thankful their not Colorado.
Better rashion that bag of halloween treats you have....that's about all the
sweets that you and the utey's are going to see.
Dream on delusional mediocre team fighting to get bowl eligible.The
only rose bowl money you'll ever see are the pennies your mom tosses in the
flower vase.Your BCS membership entitles you to sit in the high
chair next to the big boys table, nothing more.
Rose Bowl money every year.Next year Whit will have our guys
fighting for the grandaddy of them all.I love the BCS and my BCS