Quantcast
Sports

Red roundup: Mediocre Pac-12 teams fighting to get bowl eligible

Comments

Return To Article
  • williary Kearns, UT
    Nov. 7, 2011 11:10 a.m.

    A weekly update for Cougar fans actually bringing up Sagarin rankings, and strength of schedule. Facts, not opinions.

    Current Sagarin Rankings, a key component of the BCS formula:

    Utah# 42, SOS #27
    BYU# 57, SOS #85

    Average Opponent Ranking:
    Utah #62.8
    BYU #92.8

    Best wins:
    Utah #57 BYU, #65 Pitt, #67 Arizona, #72 Montana State. Plays #52 UCLA Saturday.
    BYU #86 Central Florida. After Saturday, Utah will have 5 wins better than anyone BYU has beaten this year.

    Worst Opponents:
    Utah #130 Colorado. Only team ranked above #94 that Utah plays.
    BYU #100 Ole Miss, #110 SJSU, #126 NMSU, #135 Idaho, #207 ISU.

    Myth about Utah's easy late schedule:
    #52 UCLA is 34 spots higher than anyone BYU will have beaten this year. #94 WSU is exactly 1 spot above #93 Oregon State, who BYU already played. And as bad as #130 Colorado is, they would be the 3rd-4th worst team on BYU's schedule.

    Some actual facts for the Duckhunter's of the world.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 6, 2011 6:27 p.m.

    @naval lint

    *yawn*

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 5, 2011 11:46 a.m.

    Duckhunter:

    As had been noted, I DO have the support to prove that the Y received more money from Utah's bowl revenues than the other way around. However, as has been noted you don't have the stones to accept the terms. You even admitted to having seen my proof, yet you now deny its existence. As soon as I prove it again, you will revert back to denying its existence. That is why I am requiring you to accept the terms BEFOREHAND, so I can continue linking readers back to this very comment thread that will prove your lack of integrity and credibility.

    If you - or any OTHER cougar fan - really believed I had nothing, you all would have eagerly backed me into a corner and made look like a fool. However, you all KNOW that I am NEITHER, and rather DO have something; something that you all desperately want to keep hidden. And that is why you will continue to flee, and/or attempt to change the basis of the argument. All of your tacit refusals to accept my challenge PROVES that you know and agree that Utah's bowl revenues exceeded the Y's.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 5, 2011 10:37 a.m.

    @utahute16

    When have I ever said I don't enjoy driving you to the edge of insanity on utah articles? It will be sad to see another insecure teenager with obvious emotional problems have to enter the NPU up at the u but it appears I have all but criven you to it. LOL!

    You spent your Friday night at home counting how many posts I have on multiple different articles. Now that is my owning you. LOL!

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 5, 2011 9:54 a.m.

    @swoop

    Only if we play Adams State more than once. It can't be a tradition unless it's repeated.

    @anyone mentioning past records
    Who cares? In the most recent years the rivalry has generally had close games and practically alternates wins and losses. I imagine both will finish this season with similar Sagarin ratings which will explain the fact that BYU is probably going 10-2 and Utah is probably going 6-6 due to strength of schedule.

    @anyone mentioning BCS conference invites
    We all know that in the PAC-12 third party networks are a huge no-go for them and that is one thing that would keep BYU out regardless of other issues. Frankly I'd have loved for them to take Utah and BYU instead of Utah and Colorado but Colorado provides an additional media market which that. BYU has consistently been in the 20-60 range of the sagarin rankings the past decade and in case you haven't noticed...there's about 60 BCS teams. The notion that Utah is worthy while BYU is not is just rediculous. Incidentally the notion that Utah is unworthy while BYU is, is also rediculous.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 4, 2011 9:34 p.m.

    VegasUte

    "Utes don't have to go back to the 40s to be proud of our school's accomplishments...we have a LOT to be proud of when it comes to basketball traditions."

    Looks like U can add losing to Adams State to your list of proud basketball traditions.

  • UtahUte16 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 4, 2011 9:07 p.m.

    Here's a statistic for ya.

    'Duckhunter' consists of roughly 15% (15/103) of the posts on this article.

    I figured I'd check out his activity over on the popular articles of the team he is a "fan" of. One artice entitled "BYU football: ESPN partnership has been a boon for school, fans" had 102 comments. 'Duckhunter' accounted for 0% (0/102) of those comments. I figured, maybe it's an anomoly; so I decided to check out the next most popular one. The next article was some Jake Heaps mumbojumbo. You guessed it, Duckhunter came up with a percentage of 0.00 (0/89).

    Now, let's look at this data objectively... I think we can all see who is truly obsessed with whom.

    I don't blame Y fans though, I would be envious of the Utes' situation right now too. Every week is something new and challenging. Go Utes!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 4, 2011 3:39 p.m.

    @naval lint

    As has been noted you have nothing or you wouldn't be so scared to post it. Obviously if what you posted was all verifiable and includes all of the backing you claim then any rebuttal that didn't show an opposite would be no more than an opinion. You don't need any promises you just don't have what you claim and are running for cover.

    LOL!

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Nov. 4, 2011 12:16 p.m.

    Isn't it funny how the y? fans are commenting about Utah basketball. Utes don't have to go back to the 40s to be proud of our school's accomplishments. Unlike the y?, we have a LOT to be proud of when it comes to basketball traditions. We are down now, but that will turn around as it always does. The y? has had two decent players in their entire history - Danny Ainge and Dimmer. Where did they get with both of these players? Not even to the final 4. The y? holds two NCAA tournament records in ineptitude that will never be broken: Most tournaments without a final 4 appearance and most consecutive first round losses. Nice legacy.

    Go Utes!! Onward and Upward!!

    BTW, have fun with the Toreros, the Dons and the Pilots - and their junior high school gyms!!!

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    Nov. 4, 2011 10:48 a.m.

    @scenic view,

    "You're delusional"

    Haha yes, Robbie Bosco, Sports Illustrated, myself, and everyone not wearing blue goggles are delusional. But you aren't delusional at all for thinking that in 2011, you could essentially beat Wyoming 12 times and be awarded a National Championship.

    "Utah 2004 got into a BCS game by only playing 3 regular season games against teams with winning records."

    Yes, and Utah wasn't awarded a National Championship, or even a shot at it in 2004, against a more difficult schedule than '84 BYU. Thank you for making my point, once again. Your "NC" trophy should be in the shape of a loophole.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 4, 2011 10:14 a.m.

    Duckhunter:

    No. My post will be complete with verifiable sources. Without the sources, it wouldn't hold any more weight than when cougar fans make up their own dubious facts. Since the DNews does not permit URLs, I won't be able to provide you with the links, but I will be able to provide "Google" search engine keywords sufficient for anyone who wishes to verify.

    Furthermore, should any of my values be deemed inaccurate, inspectors can refute them, but ONLY by providing sufficient Google search engine keywords for anyone who wishes to verify. That's all within acceptable debate terms.

    What is NOT permitted, are rebuttals with NO substance. In other words, you cannot say, "Your facts are wrong" to anything substantiated by my links unless you have something to back that up. Afterall, how can someone say my facts are wrong if they don't know what facts are right?

    You say I don't want my alleged "false claims" to be exposed. I say, if you're so sure my facts won't hold water, why wouldn't you want to expose me?

    The truth is, it is YOU who fears being exposed. And THAT's why you won't accept the terms of this challenge.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 4, 2011 9:59 a.m.

    scenic view:

    YOU're delusional if you think voters DID consider the cougars SOS.

    "btw, BYU 1984 played 4 regular season games against teams with winning records. Utah 2004 got into a BCS game by only playing 3 regular season games against teams with winning records."

    The Y did play one more team with a winning record, but they ALSO played 12 teams. Utah played 11. So your point in irrelevant. What would be relevant was that prior to the Holiday Bowl, the cougars' opponents were 55-79-3 [0.401], and none ranked. Prior to Utah's Fiesta Bowl, the Utes' opponents were 53-72 [0.424]. Nothing really to write home about, but it's clear that Utah has the edge in SOS. Furthermore, Texas A&M was ranked #22.

    After our respective bowl games, the Y's opponents' record was 61-85-3 [0.409], with no ranked opponents. Utah's was 61-76 [0.445] with a win over #25 Pittsburgh. Again, slight edge Utah. I don't how a cougar fan can claim otherwise if both teams opponents won only 61 games.

    Utah beat better teams, and by a larger average margin of victory.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 4, 2011 9:46 a.m.

    @MiP

    If you google it you will find it says that the university of utah won the 1944 ncaa mens basketball tournament. They did. They did not win the 1944 mens basketball national championship. That was won by Army. Sorry but that is just the historical record.

    @naval vet

    In otherwords you want to make false claims but don't want them to be exposed as false. This way you can just pretend that you have "facts".

    LOL!

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    Nov. 4, 2011 8:41 a.m.

    nosaerfoecioveht

    You're delusional if you really believe that voters in the AP and Coaches polls in 1984 didn't consider strength of schedule.

    In 1979, BYU finished the regular season UNDEFEATED, but the Cougars were ranked 9th behind several teams with one or more losses. Why would an undefeated team be ranked behind one- or two-loss teams if strength of schedule wasn't considered?

    The real difference between BYU 1979 and BYU 1984 was in 1979, BYU was just beginning to build their national reputation. In 1984, BYU was coming off a one-loss, #7-ranked season, with an 11-game winning streak, and two road wins over Top 15 teams.

    BYU continued that winning streak in 1984, eventually building it to 24 games. Meanwhile, other teams took themselves out of the running; Oklahoma losing to a very mediocre Kansas, and Washington and Nebraska not even winning their conference titles and then passing on an opportunity to play #1-ranked BYU in the Holiday Bowl.

    btw, BYU 1984 played 4 regular season games against teams with winning records. Utah 2004 got into a BCS game by only playing 3 regular season games against teams with winning records.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 4, 2011 2:45 a.m.

    Uteanymous:

    "If you have the numbers and reliable sources that can be independently verified, then why are you afraid to cite them?"

    What a carefully worded challenge. Essentially, you [and ALL of your fellow Y fans] are saying, "No, I don't agree to submit to any stipulations of honor because I know I'll need to rebut your easily verifiable facts with nothing verifiable in its own right, but rather more frantic and emotional nonsense, and I don't want to be called out on it."

    If you're so sure I have nothing of substance, then what do you have to lose? On the other hand, if you're sure that I'm not bluffing, then yeah, I can understand why you TOO refused to accept the terms.

    Are there NO cougar fans who dare read the truth?

    I thought not.

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 11:29 p.m.

    @Sportsfan, (and all BYU fans who agree with his statement)

    "By today's standards, BYU would still be the AP National Champion"

    Thanks sports fan- this is exactly what I was talking about. It takes a special type of fan to keep telling themselves they really believe that.

    "With the way the [BCS] system is now, there's no question we wouldn't have been No. 1,"
    -Robbie Bosco

    "strength of schedule" was not the hot-button subject it is today. If it had been, BYU may never have made it to No. 1.
    -Sports Illustrated

    "There is no way that any team would ever be voted No 1 without beating a single quality opponent, by todays standards, where strength of schedule actually plays a factor."
    -Everyone who doesn't live in Utah County

  • MiP Iowa City, IA
    Nov. 3, 2011 11:08 p.m.

    "Individual game point differentials are really quite meaningless - the only comparison that really matters is overall record...".
    --SportsFan

    Determining what makes one team "better" is material spent hours on ESPN radio daily. There are folks on here saying BYU (6-3) is better than Utah (4-4) and vice versa. Apparently, this has great implications in life...

    For FBS college football, there are several factors that can determine "who's best":
    -Overall record.
    -Strength of Schedule.
    -Tradition
    -The "been there done that factor" (Boise St or Houston?)
    -Who Lee Corso choses on Gameday.
    -SEC, or not?
    -AQ, or not?
    -How many times they play on the ESPN family of networks.

    But all else being "relatively equal," the head honcho, the big cheese, the "trump card" factor is clearly head-to-head.

    -It decides the division winner in ties, all heck breaking loose when there's a three way tie (i.e. Big-XII south a few years back).
    -It decides the BCS NC, among #1/2.

    Who's better? LSU or Alabama?

    We'll see on Saturday, when they face head-to-head.

    ====
    Swoop and Duckhunter:

    If I try looking up "1944 NCAA Men's Division 1 Basketball Tournament" on Wikipedia, what would it say?

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 3, 2011 10:10 p.m.

    Swoopy and Ducky my two favorite obtuse Y fans. Your desperation is only matched by, well your desperation. This is Utah article so if you want be a little brother go ahead. I find it funny Y fans like you are so obsessed with Utah. You have you Y articles about games against Idaho State et. al. so please enjoy. Utah is the PAC12 and your team isn't. Big East didn't even want your team, so sad; Big Sky might be an option.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 3, 2011 9:26 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    If you have the numbers and reliable sources that can be independently verified, then why are you afraid to cite them?

    Either post them, or just admit that your numbers are your own poorly researched opinion.

    Your name calling and personal attacks prove nothing.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 9:15 p.m.

    nosaerfoecioveht

    "Just wouldn't be considered a National Championship by today's standards."

    By today's standards, BYU would still be the AP National Champion.

    Fans are free to have their own opinion of which team they think is most "deserving", but bottom line, the ONLY requirement for winning the AP National Championship in 1936 or in 1984 or in 2011 is finishing #1 in the final AP poll. In 1984, every major selecting organization had over a month to study BYU's "worthiness" versus Oklahoma, Washington, Florida, and Nebraska, and in the end, the majority of voters in EVERY major organization selected BYU #1.

    StGtoSLC

    "I think Sagarin is meaningless"

    Since the Sagarin rankings are one of the computer rankings used in the BCS ranking formula, by extension, you must also believe that the whole BCS system is meaningless. In 2003, voters in the AP poll agreed, so they selected USC as the 2003 AP National Champion, even though LSU won the BCS championship game.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 3, 2011 8:32 p.m.

    phoenix:

    "If you really had accurate, verifiable numbers, you'd post them with no pre-conditions."

    I REALLY have them. However, I already know that cougar fans will deny the proof in the FACE of proof, but provide no facts to back it up. Ducky impugned my credibility. I can kill two birds with one stone [prove "Where's Stockton" wrong, and corner "Duckhunter" into admitting he has no credibility, either in writing, or tacitly by failing to meet the "pre-condition[ed]" terms.

    BUT....

    ...if you're so sure of yourself that I'm bluffing, and cannot produce those values, then why don't you call me out on it? Go ahead and accept the terms that if I produce those figures that you cannot provide a verifiably "more accurate" source of data, that you'll have to admit that cougar fans such as Ducky DO know the truth [which he admits that he does], but lie anyway because they fear the cougars being exposed as true "pretenders" and irrelevant mid-majors that no AQ conference wants. And you'll have to say TO Ducky as well.

    Cougar fans know their best days are a generation behind them, so they try to fake their relevancy.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 8:23 p.m.

    Ducky, I love how you still want to live in the 80's do you have a mullet? I would bet anything you do. I'm sure you attend each Y game in your neon pink Y championship shirt, and OP shorts don't you.

    Tell us Ducky what has the Y done this century compared to the Utes buddy? How many times has the Y beat the utes this century? How many BCS bowls has the Y played in? How many BCS bowls has the Y won? How many undefeated seasons does the Y have? How did the Y do against the U in 2011? I love you bringing up all your facts, just give me some that happened this century buddy.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 7:52 p.m.

    Deep Blue, if the Sagarin ratings are what "Utah fans are constantly use [sic] to rank opponents," Then why are you trying to justify your entire argument off of them? By the way, I think Sagarin is meaningless, and yes you're right that the final rankings are much more important than the rankings from an individual week. The fact of the matter is, however, that in all the polls that people actually care about, neither Utah nor BYU will be included, so all we know is that Utah was better than BYU this year and proved it by beating them soundly. Get over it and make the best of the rest of the season. That game, as fun as it was to watch (until it just got sad), means much less to me now than the match up we have each weekend from here on out.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 7:10 p.m.

    @Jealous:

    "...the beatdown was nothing but a fluke, courtesy of the 7 turnover implosion by the Cougars...".

    BYU had 12 turnovers in the three losing games against Texas, Utah and TCU.
    All flukes? Or just flukes against your bitter rival?

    @SportsFan:

    "...Former national champion beaten at home by rival by at least 44 points...

    not quite, but close

    2010: Oklahoma 55 at Texas 17...".

    2010? Did you mean 2011?

    Thank you for taking the time to research my question.

    One last "comparison"...

    "...Individual game point differentials are really quite meaningless - the only comparison that really matters is overall record...".

    So, Montana State @ 8-1 is comparable to Oklahoma, Arkansas, Oregon, South Carolina, Nebraska, Clemson, Virginia Tech., Kansas State, Michigan and Penn State? (1 loss, top 16 BCS ranked teams)

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 6:51 p.m.

    @duck

    Fact: all of your facts didn't refute a single thing I said. No one is denying that BYU won what was considered by 84's standards (somehow even more of a broken systme than today's) a "national championship". I'm glad you brought up the fact that we are living in the internet age though. Ever google the phrase "undeserving college football national champion"? You probably shouldn't.

    Personally, I have no hate for the 84 team- I think they accomplished something nice by going undefeated, even though they never had the chance to play anyone decent. That wasn't their fault. Just wouldn't be considered a National Championship by today's standards.

    And why would I drive all the way to Provo to see your dusty trophy? If I want to see two much more impressive trophies, both of which were won this century, all I need to do is head up on the hill :)

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 6:29 p.m.

    VegasUte

    You forgot to mention what 40's music you're listening to.

    In case you haven't heard, it's all the rage on the hill.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 6:19 p.m.

    Pebbles

    Reading comprehension - Duckhunter never said the 1944 NIT champion was viewed as the National Champion; in fact, he very clearly stated that Army won the 1944 National Championship.

    All of which negates the rest of your aimless rant.

  • VegasUte Las Vegas, NV
    Nov. 3, 2011 6:15 p.m.

    Ducky and Just - reliving the 80's on a Utah blog. Too funny!!

    I can hear the Culture Club cassettes playing all the way down to Vegas!

    Love it!

    Go Utes! Go Crimson!!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 6:05 p.m.

    Now as far as BYU's football National Championship is concerned, well despite your laughable attempt to try and pretend it wasn't all the trophies really exist, and all you have to do is use your google and it is all right there. Fidning utah's national championship basketball trophy is just a bit harder since it doesn't exist. Nor can you google anything documenting its existence either because, well, it doesn't actually exist anywhere but in the imagination of utah "fans" like yourself.

    Once again utah won the ncaa tournament in 1944. It was the secondary tournament of the day and utah played in it after getting bounced out of the main tournament of the day which was the NIT. Also considering utah was one of about 10 schools that actually fielded a basketball team in 1944, everyone elses students were off fighting a war, and they only played 3 actual games all season against competition no one ever heard of, well even you little pebbles can figure this one out.

    LOL!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 5:58 p.m.

    @pebbles

    Another whiney post.

    Let's see "definative proof". LOL

    Two can play that game. Give us "definitive proof" that utah was declared the College Basketball National Champion in 1944 as viewed by official documents etc.

    Of course you can't, there aren't any.

    LOL!

  • Rock Of The Marne Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 3, 2011 5:13 p.m.

    Ducky, present definitive proof that the NIT champ was viewed as the NC, official documents etc.. I can find none. It was somewhat disputed in the media by many said it was the NCAA Champ. Jealous Y fan hearsay doesnt cut it. If were going to tout NIT Champs Utah got theirs first in 1947. If we are going to pick apart championships I say look at the joke of 1984 when a team that beat no final ranked teams somehow lucked out since all the good teams lost to each other. It helps a ton if you don't play any good teams like BYU that year. Kind of like in the 2002 Winter Games when in a medals short track speed skating race the two front runners tripped each other and some Australian guy who had been a distant third won gold. He, like BYU in 1984 found out that sometimes it is better to be very lucky than very good.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Nov. 3, 2011 5:07 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    If you really had accurate, verifiable numbers, you'd post them with no pre-conditions.

    ---------------------------

    "... and neither score was as dominate as the 54-10."

    The only highlight of Utah's first PAC 12 season, an "irrelevant" win against a "former, non-AQ" rival.

    Gotta love the irony of your obsession.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 4:44 p.m.

    @nosaerwhatever

    I have never denied utah won the 1944 ncaa tournament. They did. That is a matter of historical fact. And as such it is a nice bragging point for the university of utah's basketball program.

    What utah did not do in 1944 was win the National Basketball Championship, that was won by Army and that is also an historical fact that you can easily verify in this internet age. Nor did utah win the premier tournament of that time which was the NIT, in fact they lost in the NIT.

    BYU on the otherhand did in fact win the 1984 Football National Championship. It is an historical fact which you can also easily verify in this internet age. The trophies and plaques are all within easy proximity of your NSL residence in the BYU Hall of Fame in Provo which you can visit at any time to verify for yourself their existence.

    Of course these two things are actual facts and as such it is difficult for a utah "fan" living in denial to accept.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 4:35 p.m.

    @naval vet

    Once again I don't care if you post them or not. The fact that you won't post them without BYU fans promising not to critique them and the falseness of them is all the evidence anyone needs as to their legitimacy.

    And yes I remember you posting them before and yes they were laughably inaccurate and based completely on you making numbers ups with no factual backing.

    I don't blame you for not posting them again as they were a low point in your posting history and that is really saying something.

    LOL!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 4:32 p.m.

    @Pugman

    I think you are onto something there about Switzer. He was definately a coward and just like Coach James at Washington declined to play BYU when offered the opportunity in 1984 thus losing all credibility. The fact BYU pounded Washington 31-3 in the 2nd game of the following season is more than enough proof of the state of those two programs at that time.

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 3:43 p.m.

    I've said this before and I'll say it again, you Ute fans who try to discount BYU's Football National Championship only hurt your own credibility on these comment boards. They won the only way anyone could at that point. Their title is as legitimate as any other school's before them.

    Of course they wouldn't have won it today. Today's rules were created to prevent them or any other program deemed unworthy by the elite of the college football world from winning a title. It's all about the power and the money and who controls both.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 3, 2011 3:32 p.m.

    phantomblade:

    Then perhaps YOU would like to agree to my terms. I'll post the numbers, but I'm waiting for a Y fan to embarrass himself first. If you're so sure of yourself, go ahead and agree to them. In fact, I'm thinking you're going to have to since Duckhunter won't. He's too chicken!

  • phantomblade Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 3, 2011 3:13 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    I recall that your numbers included alot of assumptions that weren't even close to accurate.

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 3:09 p.m.

    @ Just the FAX | 2:50 p.m. Nov. 3, 2011
    Olympus Cove, Utah

    ... and neither score was as dominate as the 54-10.

  • lanius Woods Cross, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 3:09 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    Not to worry I'm not humiliated, not even a unhinged exertion on my part. It does seem as though your B/P is a bit high though! I don't recall singling out the Y, maybe we just need a playoff system(?) But, if you feel the need to defend 84' by all means state your case. I'm sure you have plenty of credible stats...

    Does LOL means lots of love, you sure use it alot.

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 3:01 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    It's always cute when the band of little brothers come on our articles and refuse to acknowledge the 1944 basketball championship, which was accomplished by beating good teams, while touting the 1984 awarded championship, which was awarded for beating no good teams.

    84 was a nice accomplishment, and apparently a "National Championship" by the standards last century. But it would never be considered a National Championship by todays standards.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Nov. 3, 2011 2:50 p.m.

    Duckhunter

    You are correct. BYU played Boston College in the 1985 Kickoff Classic in the Meadowlands.

    Bosco threw for 508 yards in a 28-14 whomping of Boston College that could have easily been twice as ugly - BYU failed to score four times inside the Eagle 20.

    Two weeks later, BYU stomped Washington 31-3.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 3, 2011 2:43 p.m.

    Duckhunter:

    I said I'd post them. All you have to do is agree to my terms. The fact that you refused to do so just proves that you DO remember my previous post and don't want to be PROVEN false. And since you DO remember my numbers, and are denying its merits, this ALSO PROVES that you have no honor or credibility. It PROVES it because you are KNOWINGLY denying that which is irrefutable.

    Plus you never admit when you're wrong.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Nov. 3, 2011 2:31 p.m.

    PAC 12 loves U

    When these 7 schools have won all 58 ski championships, it's pretty clear there's hardly any competition, and even less interest.

    Denver - 21
    Colorado - 17
    Utah - 10
    Vermont- 5
    Dartmouth - 3
    Wyoming- 2
    New Mexico - 1

    "Your argument about our Basketball Title isn't worth the dignity of a response."

    How are you going to argue that a team that only won 3 regular season games and lost their first post-season game actually won a national championship when Army was named the 1944 national champion?

    Utah won a post season tournament that was just getting started, nothing more.

  • Pugman TREMONTON, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 2:18 p.m.

    After further review...I stand corrected...BYU did beat Boston College in the 1985 kickoff classic, just as Duckhunter reminded me. Better yet, for some reason I thought Boston College won. The point I'm trying to make her while all this bantering is going on is, that ever since the inception of the BCS, controversy has continually swirled about who should play for the National Championship. As it was in 1985, the biggest loud mouth had his chance at the Cougs, he declined!! Why? Don't know? I can speculate though...let's do that. Switzer's team went on to win the 1985 National Championship title. Do you think it may be possible that the reason he wanted no part of BYU is...#1 he would of given them great bulletin board material from the previous season, or #2 he didn't want to take a chance on starting 0-1 and jepardizing the season? Just thinking out loud.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 2:15 p.m.

    @naval vet

    I don't give a crap if you post them or not. I've seen you post them before and they were false. The fact you won't post them again now just proves they are false.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 2:14 p.m.

    @Pugman

    They played Boston College, you are correct about that, but BYU beat the living crap out of them and it wasn't even as "close" as the final 28-14 score would indicate. As I said Bosco threw for over 500 yds, Kozlowski had over 200 yds receiving, and if I remember correctly Mark Bellini and Trevor Molini both had over 100 yds receiving.

    Doug Flutie graduated after the previous season and was playing in the USFL at that point. I can't remember the name of the new Boston College qb that year but he had a terrible game with Jason Buck, Shawn Knight, Kurt Gouveia, Leon White and company pounding him into the ground all game long.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 2:04 p.m.

    @portland beavers aka "54-10", "duckhunter hunter", "kosta fesenko", "articuno BYU", "hondo", "officer coolguy", etc.

    Another new screen name huh? Pathetic.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 3, 2011 2:03 p.m.

    Duckhunter:

    "But go ahead and post them again so we can all get a good laugh."

    Okay. I will post them IF...

    Either "Where's Stockton" returns and admits he frantically and emotionally made up his own valuation sans performing any research...

    -OR-

    YOU agree to either admit my values are correct upon reviewing them, or refute them with verifiable substance [not "because I said so" or "I have it on good authority" or anything like that].

    If you agree to these terms, then renege, then you are admitting that it is YOU who has no credibility or honor.

  • Pugman TREMONTON, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 2:01 p.m.

    @ Duckhunter
    Who did BYU play in the kickoff classic?

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 1:58 p.m.

    @ Portland Beavers | 12:45 p.m. Nov. 3, 2011
    SALT LAKE CITY, UT

    Duckhunter only posts on Utah articles ever since the 54-10 beat down and his self imposed 2 week absence - he's not a true BYU "fan". Like the little kid who gets mad at mommy so they hold their breath. LOL

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 1:57 p.m.

    @Pugman

    Actually BYU pasted Boston College 28-14 in that game and Robbie Bosco threw for over 500 yds. Doug Flutie was already graduated and in the USFL by the 1985 season.

  • Cougars - Wise Older Brothers Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 3, 2011 1:27 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    "I think it's pretty clear as to who was the REAL #1"

    Washington was invited to play the REAL #1 in the Holiday Bowl, but chose to play a lower-ranked team instead. Eight months later, Washington did play BYU, and the Cougars destroyed the Huskies 31-3.

    We all know Utah fans wouldn't have hesitated for a second to proclaim themselves national champions if Utah had been voted #1 in the final AP poll in 2004 or 2008,

    even though Utah didn't play in the BCS championship game.

    That's why all of these jealous "awarded" championship rants are so funny, and so hypocritical.

    From the Official NCAA Website
    NCAA FBS Championship History
    Year | Champion | Selecting Organization
    2008 Florida BCS
    2004 Southern California BCS
    2003 Louisiana State, Southern California BCS, AP, FWAA
    1985 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
    1984 Brigham Young AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
    1983 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI

    BYU's AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI (Coaches) national championships are just as legitimate as the championships awarded to Miami and Oklahoma by the exact same selecting organizations.

  • PAC 12 loves U Sandy, Utah
    Nov. 3, 2011 12:58 p.m.

    @ Swoop

    "10 ski titles - it's not hard to win a ski title when the only teams that compete are Denver, Colorado, Vermont, Wyoming, New Mexico, Dartmouth and Utah"

    You seem to be down playing Utah's National Championships, so what your telling me is; These 9 National Titles that BYU has, have very little value: Golf, Volleyball, Outdoor Track, and Cross Country.

    Your argument about our Basketball Title isn't worth the dignity of a response.

    "football may have begun before 1972, but nobody cares about championships won in ancient conferences that died over half a century ago"

    Hey Swoop you just proved my point. You Y fans keep reliving a weak National Title and Conference Titles over a quarter century ago. The WAC is pretty much ancient history. Look what happened to them? I invite you to come back to 2011 and make sure your team can cash the checks they write, they've made a fool out of themselves the last the few years, i.e. 54-10, the 2008 Quest to Perfection (Wasn't Utah perfect that year?), Rise up! (is this a resurrection thing?)

    Hang in there Band of Little Brothers.

  • Portland Beavers SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 12:45 p.m.

    All you Y fans, WOW-and you call Ute fans "trolls" this is the red-roundup your on. There is a lot of frustration out there, right? Utah is in a conference, a very fine conference. All sports will compete in the PAC-12. The U will compete just fine and they will recieve all the money that is part of being in the PAC-12. BYU fans you need to adjust and get over your jelous behavior. Your athletes, coaches are better than that, you just need to stay the course and accept that nobody wants you. The University of Utah is a member of The PAC-12 your not and never will be. Again all I can say is "WOW"

  • Pugman TREMONTON, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 12:32 p.m.

    I want to implore some history on you young folks who go back and forth and back and forth like my twins did when they were three. Each year dating back to around 1990 or a few years after that, a game was played called the kickoff classic. Each year the national champion was one of the two teams picked to play in that game. The other team determined by the NCAA. BYU's national championship was contested most by Barry Switzer who at the time coached Oklahoma who in 1984 was ranked #2 who played Washington who was ranked #3. Switzer argued whoever won out of his bowl game should be national champs. It didn't work out that way. But because Switzer was so loud in his objections, the NCAA gave him his shot at the national champs the following year in the kickoff classic. To no ones surprise Switzer declined and crawled back into his hole. Byu went on to face a young QB out of Boston College....I believe Flutie was his name. By the way...Flutie rocked the Cougars!!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 12:31 p.m.

    @naval vet

    No you don't "have numbers". I've seen you post them before and they are false. 1st of all you tried to claim a full BCS share for utah and the Mountain West when in fact what was awarded was not a full share like the BCS conferences received, it was considerably less, and the Mtn West did not get all of it anyway as it was split between all of the non AQ conferences although the mtn wests share was larger than what was awarded to the other conferences. The truth is not one single mtn west team received anywhere near the amount of money you tried to claim they recieved, actually all they got was a few hundred thousand total apeice, nowhere near 1 million for each utah bcs appearance like you tried to falsely claim.

    But go ahead and post them again so we can all get a good laugh.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 12:23 p.m.

    @lanius

    Every single NCAA Football National Championship in history has been "awarded". That is how it is done. Period. Despite deserate utah "fans" like yourself exerting unhinged efforts to to discredit it the fact remains it is exactly the same and every bit as legitimate as every single other NCAA National Football Championship ever awarded in the history of college football.

    Sorry to continue to humiliate you with the facts but those are the facts.

    LOL!

  • Ute's R Gr8 Sandy, Utah
    Nov. 3, 2011 12:23 p.m.

    @Swoopy; Utah was simply in the right place at the right time when Larry Scott's Big 12 South/PAC 16 deal fell apart and the PAC 10 needed a placeholder to fill the 12th spot in their roster.

    So your telling me that Holmoe put BYU in the wrong place at the wrong time when the Y was pasted up by The Big 12. Now your looking to be in the right place at the right time for the BIG East? BIG East! BIG East! Oooo now theres a prestigious conference that is going to survive. Collie was right, magic happens...... Utah proved it.

    Hang in there Band of Lil Brother

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 3, 2011 12:16 p.m.

    Ianius:

    If by "real champion" in '84, you mean "the best team in the country", then that would have been Washington. They beat Oklahoma CONVINCINGLY in the Orange Bowl. The cougars, on the other hand, struggled against a 6-5 Michigan team, who had no business in the postseason in the first place, and who was down to playing their 4th string QB in the Holiday Bowl. So I think it's pretty clear as to who was the REAL #1.

    Duckhunter:

    "@naval vet...you just make stuff up."

    Please link us readers to an article where my numbers didn't stand up to scrutiny. Otherwise, I'll be linking readers to THIS page exposing YOU for "making stuff up". If YOU can't back up YOUR claims, then it will be YOUR credibility which is questionable.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 3, 2011 12:05 p.m.

    Duckhunter:

    I DO have numbers. And I'll willingly post them just as soon as that frantic and emotional cougar fan admits he made up his own.

  • lanius Woods Cross, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 11:54 a.m.

    Swoop, so who was the real champion in 84'?

    Duckhunter, key word in your comment was "awarded" - kinda like figure skating...(awarded = given, gift or prize not earned or won)

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 10:57 a.m.

    @naval vet

    No you do not "have numbers" you just make stuff up. That you somehow think anything you post is credible in the least is what's really funny.

    LOL!

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 3, 2011 10:57 a.m.

    Swoop:

    It's been YOUR fans who have brought up the order of operation into which Utah became a Pac-12 member. Utah fans have said all along that Colorado wasn't invited first because the Buffalos were preferred over Texas, and Utah wasn't invited last because 5 other Big XII teams declined. Utah fans believe we would have been invited ANYWAY.

    The HUGE difference between what the frantic and emotional cougars -- who were left out of expansion back in the Summer of 2010 -- were saying, and what I'm saying right now is: We were invited; you were not.

    While the order Utah joined the Pac-12 is immaterial, the order the cougars are falling in IS. And primarily because they haven't been invited. Scott held back on Utah because he wanted the Aggies. TT and OSU only received invitations because of Texas and OU. So what's holding up the Y?

    Answer: They're less desirable than BSU, AFA, UH, SMU, UCF, and Navy.

    AND...the Big East wants 12. If those 6 accept, they'll STILL need one more team to get to 12. There's nothing preventing Marinatto from inviting you. Well, other than you being not wanted. Haha!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 10:51 a.m.

    @uteby3

    Swoop is correct. utah has never won the national championship in basketball. The ncaa tournament was not even the premier tournament in 1944 and utah had already lost in the premier tournament which was the NIT. If you check you will find Army is considered the national Champion in basketball in 1944, not utah.

    utah won the ncaa tournament that year, a start up secondary tournament, and no one other than delude utah 'fans" thinks for one second that utah won the National Title.

    BYU on the otherhand was awarded the 1984 National Football Championship by all of the major organizations that vote on that award and has all of the trophies to prove it.

    What silly delusions you have.

    LOL!

  • Mormon Ute Kaysville, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 10:27 a.m.

    sammyg,

    You are hillarious! Coming from the fan of a team who declared their goal to be the national title before the season started, your criticism of our bowl chances is just a laugh a minute.

  • Utesby3 Sandy, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 9:18 a.m.

    @ Swoop: I can't believe you're going to try to say Utah didn't win the b-ball national championship in 1944. The NCAA would say otherwise, however, if you're going to go that route then I will remind you that BYU hasn't WON any national championships in football. They were AWARDED the national championship in 1984 simply because all the teams better than BYU had beaten each other at least once, whereas BYUs easy schedule gave them their only perfect season in school history. So I guess you can't count that in your list of national championships. Also, since apparently conference championships during leather helmet days don't count, your national championship in golf doesn't count either because they were using wooden drivers back then. But at least your women's cross country has come through for you to give you some solid national championships.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 9:16 a.m.

    Naval Vet

    Quit pretending there's some sort of magical pecking order in BCS conference invites; by your misguided premise that sooner BCS invite order equals better football program, Cincinnati, Louisville, South Florida, and Colorado are all better football programs than Utah.

    Utah was simply in the right place at the right time when Larry Scott's Big 12 South/PAC 16 deal fell apart and the PAC 10 needed a placeholder to fill the 12th spot in their roster.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 3, 2011 8:49 a.m.

    StGtoSLC

    Texas is ranked #9 in the Sagarin ratings, the same ratings Utah fans are constantly use to rank opponents.

    Texas is ranked #25 Coaches, #21 BCS, and #26 AP (8 points behind #25 Auburn)

    other Sagarin ratings:

    #46 Utah
    #55 BYU

    (sorry to burst your arrogant "we're sooooo much better than BYU" bubble)

    #101 Oregon State
    #102 Utah State

    (imagine that, BYU's win over the Aggies was just as meaningful as Utah's first PAC 12 win)

    #128 Colorado
    #130 New Mexico State

    (Utah's new "rival" would fit right in with the dregs of the WAC)

    #56 UCLA
    #58 Arizona
    #88 WSU

    (Utah should beat every one of their remaining opponents by at least 40 points)

    btw, current rankings are only a snapshot, the only rankings that matter are the final rankings; by season's end, BYU could easily be ranked ahead of Utah.

  • Hellooo Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 8:31 a.m.

    How is this possible in the League of Champions where there are no weak teams and every week is an opponent with the top atheletes in the nation to play against. Love the media hype for the PAC-12. But, it is a conference with at most two teams with any quality. It is great Utah is now in the club, but really how is this different than the MWC? Still, have to win and if you do not win them all in all liklihood you end up in same old December bowls, and tv well lets just say it is still difficult to find the game.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 3, 2011 8:07 a.m.

    Jealous U [3 of 3]:

    The Big East had expressed a desire to expand to 12. With the addn of BSU, AFA, SMU, UH, UCF, and USNA, that brings them to 11 teams. So they need one more. Some reports have mentioned the cougars. Others have leaned towards: Army, Temple, East Carolina, Memphis, and Tulane. So THATs your peer group. So for all the talk of your national brand, youve been classed in the same league as Army, Temple, ECU, Memphis, and Tulane.

    Too funny!

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 3, 2011 8:07 a.m.

    Jealous U [2 of 3]:

    We got in on our own merits. That makes us, legitimately the Pac-12s FIFTH choice. And since A&M had no designs to head west, Utah was arguably their FOURTH.

    But where would the cougars fall in line?

    Answer

    (1) In the Pac-12, BigTen, and ACC, you were never even considered!
    (2)In the Big XII, you were behind: Texas A&M, Notre Dame, Arkansas, TCU, Missouri, West Virginia, and Louisville. That makes you choice #8.
    (3)In the Big East, you fall in behind: Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, TCU, Boise St, Air Force, SMU, Houston, UCF, and Navy. That makes you choice #11. 11! Haha!

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 7:40 a.m.

    Jealous U, you cannot in good conscience call Texas #9 in the nation. They may have gotten up to #9 before being exposed by Oklahoma then Oklahoma State, but that's not what they were when you played them and that's not what they are now. They are not even in the AP Top 25 at the moment. And if you are going to try to use that logic, then list Utah as #28 because that's where we were after that game.

    deductive reasoning: "the only bowl Utah saw was the potatoe chip bowl."

    Didn't realize Dan Quayle was a BYU fan!

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Nov. 3, 2011 7:31 a.m.

    Where's Stockton:

    "BYU's total contribution still far outpaid Utah's over the same long haul period... period!!!"

    Is that so? How do you know this? What are the exact numbers? If you can positively aver that the Y's financial contribution was greater than Utah's, then you MUST have the figures to support that.

    Or did you just frantically and emotionally make that up?

    P.S.: I DO have numbers. And you won't like the results.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 6:50 a.m.

    Correction:

    Texas trailed 55-10, before scoring a meaningless, late 4th Q TD.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 6:44 a.m.

    There You Go Again

    "Has there ever been a former, more deserving, football national champion that was beaten, at home, by a rival, by at least 44 or more points, after the date, of their last national championship?"

    Are you sure you couldn't have thrown 3 or 4 more qualifiers in there?

    Former national champion beaten at home by rival by at least 44 points...

    not quite, but close

    2010: Oklahoma 55 at Texas 17

    Texas trailed 55-17, before scoring a meaningless TD in garbage time.

    btw, 5-2 Wyoming lost to 2-5 Utah State 63-19 the week after only losing to #9 Nebraska 38-24

    Individual game point differentials are really quite meaningless - the only comparison that really matters is overall record.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 3, 2011 12:11 a.m.

    PAC 12 loves U

    10 ski titles - it's not hard to win a ski title when the only teams that compete are Denver, Colorado, Vermont, Wyoming, New Mexico, Dartmouth and Utah

    (btw, tiny Denver has won more than twice as many ski championship than Utah)

    10 women's gymnastics titles

    0 other titles - I know, you try to claim Utah's 1944 NCAA championship as a national championship, but the real 1944 national champion was Army

    football may have begun before 1972, but nobody cares about championships won in ancient conferences that died over half a century ago

  • Jealous U Alpine, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 11:51 p.m.

    There You Go Again

    at #9 Texas, BYU loses 16-17
    at #31 TCU, BYU loses 28-38
    vs #46 Utah, BYU loses 10-54

    Except for the BYU game, Utah hasn't scored over 27 points all season.

    Conclusion, the "beatdown" was nothing but a fluke courtesy of the 7-turnover implosion by the Cougars.

  • TamaSamoa Las Vegas, NV
    Nov. 2, 2011 11:46 p.m.

    I will be going to the LV Maaco Bowl where a MWC team will beat the Utes (again) this year. You can pound your chest with your BCS affiliation, but here's some news flash: you actually have to WIN games and be competitive with the elite teams in the conference before you will ever SMELL a BCS bowl game. Until then, enjoy the bottom of the Pac!

  • PAC 12 loves U Sandy, Utah
    Nov. 2, 2011 11:28 p.m.

    @ Scenic View

    What has all those great accomplishments done for BYU lately?..........Exactly!

    Here is a new statistic for you.

    Total National Championships:
    Utah 21
    BYU 10

    Just an FYI your statistic on conference titles are incorrect.

    Conference Titles:
    Utah 24
    BYU 23

    Football did not begin in 1972. Quit using your selective statistics.

    Hang in there Band of Little Brothers.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 11:27 p.m.

    Are 'Quest for Las Vegas or New Mexico' tee-shirts available for these last Ute games?

  • Jealous U Alpine, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 11:22 p.m.

    Wally West

    All great programs have great players -- best quarterback, best runningback, best lineman IN THE NATION.

    Call us when U win your first "secular award" to cherish and brag about.

    U wonder what the point is, because winning such awards is beyond the wildest dreams of a program that pins its entire football "legacy" on two bowl wins.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    Nov. 2, 2011 11:11 p.m.

    Uncle Rico

    "I thought conference titles are meaningless."

    Understandable, coming from a fan of a program that's only won 6 conference titles in the last 60 years.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 10:33 p.m.

    senic view:

    This long list, of the legacy, of the past, is truely memorable.

    "...BYU's era of domination:

    national championships
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    heisman trophies
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    national individual awards
    BYU 15
    Utah 0

    national college football hall of fame
    BYU 6
    Utah (no players)

    ap top 25 finishes
    BYU 17
    Utah 5

    conference championships
    BYU 23
    Utah 6...".

    The only thing you forgot to mention is the 65,000+ seat stadium.

    Anyway, speaking of national...

    In consideration of all of the national achievements listed above, in your trip down memory lane, you somehow neglected to mention the latest national reminder of just how far BUY has...fallen...

    that, of course, would be the beatdown, a rival, even a PAC-10.2 Doormat, gave to BYU, 54 to 10, in front, of 65,000 adoring fans, at Provo, on 9/17/11...

    on nationally televised ESPN, no less.

    Has there ever been a former, more deserving, football national champion that was beaten, at home, by a rival, by at least 44 or more points, after the date, of their last national championship?

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Nov. 2, 2011 10:17 p.m.

    scenic view said:

    "KamUte

    Nobody cares about Utah's leather-helmet era "domination", because Utah did absolutely NOTHING on a national scale during that entire era.

    Conversely, during BYU's era of domination:.....

    .......Utah has two BCS wins...

    and NOTHING else."

    Not this again. WAC domination means nothing. Well unless you are a wishful thinking BYU fan. Otherwise you would have been invited to a power conference a long time ago.

    Well Utah has something else, membership in a BCS conference.
    What does BYU have? The same thing the past 40 years. And a Texas Jr. ego to boot by ruining the WAC & MWC.

  • Ricardo Carvalho Provo, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 9:12 p.m.

    I have not been on the comments for one of these stories for some time now and I remember why. It surprises me how much, for some people, the pleasure they take from college football is tied to a comparison with a rival. I am a BYU fan and love to watch them play. The enjoyment I gain during a season has very little to do with BYU's former chief rival except on game day. I wonder why some people have such a hard time enjoying their team's success without reference to a rival. There must be something psychological there that is not common to most folks.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    Nov. 2, 2011 9:02 p.m.

    Bleed
    Showing up a couple times in the last 20-30 years doesn't really pay all that much over the long haul...Big deal you had a couple of nice pay days in the past 7-8 years....BYU's total contribution still far outpaid Utah's over the same long haul period... period!!!

  • KamUte South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 9:01 p.m.

    At scenic view

    There were not $50,000 payouts to Utah back in BYU's glory years. Dream on.

    With all the history has 20 to 30 years ago, it sure hasn't helped them do anything but get some Friday games on Espn. Why does nobody want BYU in their conference except the WAC or WCC or MWC?

    Where is the big east or big 12?

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 8:05 p.m.

    Where's Stockton ??? | 7:04 p.m. Nov. 2, 2011

    "The entire old Conference landscape is changing and when the dust settles it's going to be even harder to reach that inner sanctum no matter where you land."

    So; its important to be in a conferencce?

    "It will still be thehavesvs the have nots."

    Did you write Ned Beatty's speech at the end of Shooter?

  • A1994 Centerville, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 8:01 p.m.

    The PAC 2 and the other 10. What a stinker of a conference. It will be a major embarrassment if Utah doesn't make it to a bowl game this year. A PAC 12 program ought to be able to absorb problems at QB and at least have a winning record. Then again, after the beat down in Las Vegas last year, maybe staying home for the Utes is the better part of wisdom.

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 7:58 p.m.

    @ scenic view | 6:59 p.m. Nov. 2, 2011

    Cherishing & bragging about secular awards? What's next crowing about a big payout from a major network?

  • Kosta Fesenko Chicken McNuggetville, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 7:55 p.m.

    @scenic view

    do you have a point?

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 7:41 p.m.

    Toilet Bowl

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 7:40 p.m.

    Re:scenic view

    I thought conference titles are meaningless. I mean BYU doesn't value a conference right now.

    Utah 20 more wins head to head.
    Utah more bowl wins.

    Utah invited to Pac-12, byu was not.

    Utah 44 points better than byu.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    Nov. 2, 2011 7:04 p.m.

    Bleed Crimson....The BCS was created to intentionally exclude and BYU's Holiday Bowl was the main catalyst for it's creation. Utah, Boise State and TCU's two bit little also ran trophies were and still are to intentially keep them feeling like they really accomplished something while still keeping them shut out of the Club's inner sanctum. Talk about being slow on the uptake...Are you really so naive to not realize how much Utah was intentionally robbed of in not getting a shot at the National Title... especially after totally thrashing Alabama and totally shoving Nick Sabin's words that Utah didn't belong down his throat. I'll tell you right now...Being in the PAC is not going to elevate Utah to Greatness...because they will never compete recruiting wise with the likes of USC...They will never come close and Whitingham will soon be long Gone. Utah may as well kiss ever seeing another BCS game goodbye... even in also ran games. The entire old Conference landscape is changing and when the dust settles it's going to be even harder to reach that inner sanctum no matter where you land. It will still be thehavesvs the have nots.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    Nov. 2, 2011 6:59 p.m.

    KamUte

    Nobody cares about Utah's leather-helmet era "domination", because Utah did absolutely NOTHING on a national scale during that entire era.

    Conversely, during BYU's era of domination:

    National Championships
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    Heisman Trophies
    BYU 1
    Utah 0

    National Individual Awards
    BYU 15
    Utah 0

    National College Football Hall of Fame
    BYU 6
    Utah 1 (no players)

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 17
    Utah 5

    Conference Championships
    BYU 23
    Utah 6

    Utah has two BCS wins...

    and NOTHING else.

    Utah's BCS revenue was not nearly as much as Utah fans pretend it was (non-AQ conferences only get about half as much as AQ conferences, and that money was split between all 5 non-AQ conferences), and considering interest and inflation from the more than two decades Utah was a non-contributor, the actual amount BYU received was a meer drop in the bucket. Conversely, even $50,000 would have been huge to Utah back in the 70's and 80's when the Utes were earning absolutely no bowl money and they were lucky to get 20,000 fans to a game that didn't involve BYU.

  • KamUte South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 6:06 p.m.

    Deductive Reasoning. Would you prefer to live in the past? Here is the past. 56-30 for Utah. Here is some more 54-10.

    All those huge bowl games from BYU brought very little to the conference in revenue. In 2004, Utah brought in more revenue to the conference than BYU has brought in from all their huge bowl games combined. Thanks BYU.

    The potato chips were delicious at our potato bowl sponsored by Tostitos.

  • Portland Trail Blazers Sandy, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 5:46 p.m.

    Chris B,

    I thought U said the U was going to the Rose Bowl this year? Utah a top 4 team in the Pac 12 next year???
    Oregon, Washington, ASU, Oregon State, USC, UCLA, will all be better than Utah next year.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    Nov. 2, 2011 5:36 p.m.

    Bleed Crimson

    "Kind of like BYU getting their hard earned money off Utah and TCU's hard work of busting into the BCS twice."

    Oh please!

    Utah leached off of BYU's bowl money from 1974 to 1991 without contributing a dime. While BYU was busting their hump playing in 15 bowls, 9 of them against Top 25 teams, the only bowl Utah saw was the potatoe chip bowl. Utah's BCS "contributions" were loooong overdue.

  • CG Orem, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 5:18 p.m.

    sportsfanforlife / PAC12Fan

    It's always about BYU, isn't it?

    Please explain what possible relevance BYU plays in Utah playing in the Rose Bowl, this year, or ever.

    Utah beating BYU, gave Utah their only win over a D1-A team with a winning record.

    Ironically, if BYU had beaten Utah, BYU still wouldn't have a win over a D1-A team with a winning record.

  • yankees27 Heber, Utah
    Nov. 2, 2011 4:58 p.m.

    Bleed Crimson- I said basically the same thing you did but got denied, oh well, at least someone brought up the fact that BYU has eaten from others hands of hard work before. I would dare say that in the last 10 years Utah has brought in tons more cash from bowl games than the Y. Anyone?

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Nov. 2, 2011 4:57 p.m.

    Christy B said:

    "Dream on delusional mediocre team fighting to get bowl eligible.

    The only rose bowl money you'll ever see are the pennies your mom tosses in the flower vase.

    Your BCS membership entitles you to sit in the high chair next to the big boys table, nothing more."

    And BYU is still sitting in a high chair. Yes indeed, after forty years of WAC domination, they are still in a high chair eating green jello. Its like watching the Flintstones growing up, or even the Simpsons now. They wear the same clothes in each episode. Will BYU ever get out of that high chair, and sit at the big boys table?

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    Nov. 2, 2011 4:39 p.m.

    @ Where's Stockton ???

    "Utah gets the hard earned money off of someone elses hard work just because they have a foot in the door".

    Kind of like BYU getting their hard earned money off Utah and TCU's hard work of busting into the BCS twice.

    Hang in there Band of Little Brothers!

  • PAC12Fan South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 4:11 p.m.

    To Where's Stockton;

    Larry Scott would win the commissioner of the year with the bringing on of Colorado and Utah. All conferences are jealous of the new contract and the equal partnership among the members. It was the final piece that brought on Billions to the conference and the championship game.

    Imagine bringing on Texas now! With them wanting a bigger piece of pie and their tv network, it would have destroyed everything the Pac 12 (stood) stands for. The bickering would have started.

    Sing with me Mrs. Where's Stockton: "Jealousy, is such a lonely word".

  • SanDiegoUte SAN DIEGO, CA
    Nov. 2, 2011 3:45 p.m.

    Hey, Where's Stockton...What is a "rashion"?

  • PAC12Fan South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 3:25 p.m.

    54-10 to Christy Bisty

    The difference between 4-4 and 6-2 right now is a mediocre quarterback over a poor quarterback.

    Utes will make a bowl and any bowl they make pays double over any bowl tds brings in. The Utes were humbled but with 4 starting linemen back, 2 new qb's coming in with Wynn as backup, having all our running backs back and most of our defense, tall, fast receivers (with d1 experience) coming in, all our current tight ends and one year of experience, the Utes will be one of the top 4 teams next year with Oregon, USC and ASU. For now, we'll gain our experience, our money and be glad that we don't belong to the Island of Misfit Non Qualifiers with little future.

  • sportsfanforlife salt lake city, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 3:23 p.m.

    hey christy b sorry we dont have wac competetion to beat up on every week to get bowl eligible as your sorry team. next time they can win a game that counts come on the u boards and let us know. until then keep chest poundin about your d-II level comp your beating.

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    Nov. 2, 2011 3:14 p.m.

    Yes Chris... Utah gets the hard earned money off of someone elses hard work just because they have a foot in the door. But until Utah earns it's keep there's been no real accomplishment and I'm sure Larry's awful disappointed and quietly comptemplating how to patch all the holes in his sagging twelve balloons. The utes should consider themselves lucky and be thankful their not Colorado. Better rashion that bag of halloween treats you have....that's about all the sweets that you and the utey's are going to see.

  • Christy B Salt Lake City, Utah
    Nov. 2, 2011 2:58 p.m.

    Dream on delusional mediocre team fighting to get bowl eligible.

    The only rose bowl money you'll ever see are the pennies your mom tosses in the flower vase.

    Your BCS membership entitles you to sit in the high chair next to the big boys table, nothing more.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 2, 2011 1:39 p.m.

    Rose Bowl money every year.

    Next year Whit will have our guys fighting for the grandaddy of them all.

    I love the BCS and my BCS membership!