Comments about ‘U.S. Supreme Court declines to hear Utah highway crosses case’

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Published: Monday, Oct. 31 2011 5:42 p.m. MDT

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GoodGuyGary
Houston, TX

I do not care about religion or not, those crosses on the highway, or anything, create driving distraction, and may cause accidents, that is all I care.

The Skeptical Chymist
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

In reply to A1994, you are absolutely wrong. The crescent of Islam would be just as wrong and just as strongly opposed. You may not be aware, but the ACLU recently sued and reached a settlement in a case in which a charter school in Minnesota was promoting Islam quite unconstitutionally. Atheists and civil libertarians seek to prevent all governmental endorsements of religion, not just those that promote Christianity. To be fair to all religions, no religion should be endorsed by a government-based entity.

RAB
Bountiful, UT

Another victory for those who hate. What else is new.

DN Subscriber
Cottonwood Heights, UT

The Atheists' attorney Mr. Bernard is a long time ACLU attorney, so he deserves credit for much of the damage that has been done to our country and the elements that made it great, our values and traditions now trampled by the tyranny of the minority.

I think that many of our Troopers, heroes all, would find it satisfactory to replace the crosses with a depiction of a hand, all fingers folded, except the middle one, symbolizing the fact the the Atheists "won" their fight.

By the way, has Mr. Bernard or any of the Atheists ever bothered to show up at any memorial services for law enforcement officers, or contributed a dime to the scholarship funds for the kids of our troopers? Will they in the future?

It would be nice if the Atheists put bumper stickers on their cars so everyone could "thank them" for their efforts. Oh, and better watch the speed limits and turn signals, too!

Lehicoug
Lehi, UT

"It could move them to private land but would have to remove the UHP beehive logo, according to the 10th Circuit ruling."

Why would they have to remove the UHP beehive logo if it were on private land?

I'm sure there are many folks with land along I-15 or elsewhere in the state that would be happy to allow memorial crosses to be erected on their property.

morganh
Orem, Utah

What a poor decision by the Supreme Court to not review this case and the decision of the 10th Circuit Court is dead wrong on this case. The Establishment Clause clearly states that Congress shall make no laws establishing a religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Crosses are a religious symbol just like the Star of David on a Christmas tree. Christmas is a religious holiday and Christians are allowed to exercise their religious beliefs. American Atheists Inc. goal is to remove religion from our society which violates the Constitution of the United States of America. Now if they want to see an example of an established religion look no further than South America where Catholicism is a recognized state religion.

fish8
Vernal, UT

Just cut the top off of the upright pice and it becomes a T and now no one will care.

Moderate
Salt Lake City, UT

"So Arlington National Cemetery has quite a few crosses. Are those next? They ARE on public land, after all"

Actually Arlington National Cemetery uses traditional rounded-top rectangular headstones. The rows of cross-shaped headstones that you are thinking of are in Normandy, France.

SS
Cedar City, Utah

Interesting, I wonder what my good friends George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and others would say about this today? They would talk about the GOD GIVEN rights and freedoms that we have as American Citizens. What people forget is that the rights and freedoms they posses by being a citizen of this country (such as the seperation of church and state) are based on a belief in God, no matter what that belief may be. It doesn't mean that religion should not be talked about or presented publicly, thats ridiculous and in direct opposition to the way the makers of that law led their own lives. It simply means that there will be no government mandated religion. Simple as that. For all our genius, the American people don't seem to understand our laws, history, or culture very well! This is in fact a totally ignorant view of freedom. The interests of the minority over the interests of the majority! Its a sad day!

Jeff29
Cedar City, UT

So can someone please explain to me why the 10th Circuit, or even the Supreme Court is making a decision regarding Utah State land. This decision is wrong on so many levels.

If I start a religion that finds obelisks to be offensive, would the American Atheists suggestion also be deemed unconstitutional?

New Yorker
Pleasant Grove, UT

What a bad decision! Now they'll just have to eradicate the Native American religious art off the canyon walls of public property.

TR 4 President
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@Moderate

Well said! However, it is instructive to note that the cemetery in Normandy, as well as many other national cemeteries, both in and out of the states proper, are on land owned and under the control of the United States Federal Government. Moreover, the classic mound tombstones often have crosses of various types and designs on them as well, so the inconsistency remains: How can the Federal Government allow fallen soldiers to be honored with a cross, but a state government not be allowed to honor a fallen police officer with a cross?

Jeff29
Cedar City, UT

What we really need is a Governor who is willing to follow the decision of his State's Supreme court on an issue related to State property.

Scotty Boy
Logan, UT

You can talk to a Veteran of World War II or Vietnam or Korea and they will tell you there are no atheists in a Fox hole. But when they come home they forgot that they were praying for someone to save them. My questions is, just who did you pray too? The Crosses are a Memorial to the Fallen Officer, and not a Religous statement. Most of you are right, that the Minority can and does rule the Majority, until the Majority stands up and says "Enough is Enough"

The Atheist
Provo, UT

Why the hatred of atheists here?

Nobody is being disrespectful to these officers, who paid the ultimate price while protecting the rule of law. These men deserve to be honored, and that is what a cemetery is for: to construct memorials to each of these men at a dedicated place set aside for such a purpose.

The side of the highway is NOT the place for these memorials, especially with religious symbols paid for with public money on public property.

You believers are under commandment from god to "care", yet you defiantly say you "don't care" what those "haters"/atheists think!

Wow!

That's all I can say. By their fruits...

Unless you are able to walk in our shoes a few steps, you will never understand what it is like to live among religious people who take for granted that everyone believes the same as them. The hegemony of religion in Utah is particularly blind to the perspectives of others.

And all your comments did is just confirm the perception that you don't care about other perspectives and are willing to twist or manipulate ("just turn them into T's") to have your way on the highway.

Sad.

SS
Cedar City, Utah

@ Jeff29,
Even if the decision from the State Supreme court is unconstitutional? I applaud anyone who will stand up for their freedoms. This is America, we shouldn't have to be scared of what we are, or be afraid of stepping on someones toes because they do not believe the same way we do. If people were more accepting of others freedoms to worship and remember lost ones and not so easily offended we would be a little closer to what this country stands for. Instead we live in fear of not offending someone because they don't believe in God. A Governor should be aware of the beliefs of all those that he serves, but should also embody the leadership quality to stand up for what he believes to be right. Give me a Governor that posses that quality any day over the one that makes his decisions based on the loud whining of the minority.

Joggle
Clearfield, UT

To the extent that a clear majority of Americans, let alone an overwhelming majority, wants government at all levels to officially favor religion over nonbelief to the extent that more Americans still view atheism as a disqualifying characteristic in a political candidate than they do any other factor....I submit that we nonbelievers are in just as much danger of suffering open discrimination as is the gay community. Even though there have not yet been any notable physical attacks on atheists....just for being atheists....discrimination does not have to be accompanied by overt violence in order to pose a grave threat to a minority groups struggle for full equality. Is it religious believers belief that atheists should have very few rights?

What's sad and ignorant here is the misconceptions, lies, myths, and fallacies the anti-atheists (sound familiar?) present on this forum. If they knew anything about atheism....they would know that the falsehoods they spread are nothing but rants based on ignorance.

Speaking of persecuted minorities: Christianity used to be one. Did you fight your way to freedom of faith just so you could treat non-believers the same way people used to treat you? Shameful!

L-D-Knight
NORTH SALT LAKE, UT

What if we Placed a Plaque directly under the Highway Patrol Emblem and cut off the cross with the name, and placed a 4 ft copper rod out the top. that takes the cross out of the game.

speed66
Heber City, UT

@giantfan - Why is the absence of crosses forcing non-belief but the erection of those same crosses not forcing belief on others? You can't have it both ways.

The real disgrace here is Shurtleff's waste of tax dollars pushing the issue this far. Of course, he does have a political career to foster...nice he could do that with our tax dollars.

@Eliot - You've missed the point and meaning entirely. Expressing one's beliefs - however absurd or offensive - is not at risk. However, using symbols endorsing religion (which clearly a cross does) is not allowed on public lands. You'd know more want to see a monument to Atheist or Muslims as I would of Christianity.

While I personally don't care, I think the decision is appropriate.

Moderate
Salt Lake City, UT

TR 4 President says "the classic mound tombstones often have crosses of various types and designs on them as well, so the inconsistency remains".

The "various designs" include a Star of David and Islamic Crescent. I don't know, but presume that the family of a fallen soldier has some input as to the gravestone wording and the inclusion a religious symbol or not.

For me, the incosistency does not remain. National cemeteries contain gravestones which are a personal marker of the individual resting below. Utah is using a cross-shaped memorial. I see a gravestone and a memorial marker as two different things.

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