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Lawmakers approve new congressional districts amid partisan bickering

Salt Lake county still split three ways; Demos may sue

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  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 20, 2011 3:10 p.m.

    Re: On the other hand | 1:56 p.m. Oct. 20, 2011

    Don't take your loss so hard. It should help toughen you up for the loss the Democrats are facing at the ballot box in 2012. I'm still hoping the Democrats can get Obama to come to Utah and campaign for their man. He certainly fired up the Republicans in 2010 and I'm betting he will do it again.

  • On the other hand Spanish Fork, UT
    Oct. 20, 2011 1:56 p.m.

    "We don't mind the Democrats joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."

    And leave the room every time a decision is made, apparently.

    All hail The Party!

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 20, 2011 5:53 a.m.

    Re: On the other hand | 2:28 p.m. Oct. 19, 2011
    "The Party has spoken. All hail The Party."

    To paraphrase a comment Obama made: "We don't mind the Democrats joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."

  • On the other hand Spanish Fork, UT
    Oct. 19, 2011 2:28 p.m.

    The Party has spoken. All hail The Party.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 19, 2011 11:24 a.m.

    Re: rightascension | 4:00 p.m. Oct. 18, 2011
    "I have been Republican since 1974"

    I vote for the candidate not the party. If the Democrats in Utah feel they are being abused they should invite Obama to come here and campaign for them. On second thought that might not be such a good idea.

  • Utah_1 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 9:06 p.m.

    GOP House not agreeing. Not agreeing. Agreeing to not agree. Not agreeing with the Senate. Agreeing to not agree with the Senate. Agreeing to compromise with the Senate. Agreeing with the compromise with the Senate.

    Couldn't agree to close the caucus. Those that didn't agree couldn't agree to fight. The GOP house was as divided as the map.

    The final tweaks to the senate passed congressional map were drawn with staff and the computer room door was wide open. Anyone from the house or senate, democrat or republican could have wandered past.

  • yarrlydarb Ogden, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 5:21 p.m.

    If residents of rural counties think that Republicans are always going to vote their way when four or five of their representatives live in SLC, they are worse than crazy.

    That's exactly what this map is going to cause.

    A rich republican representative to Congress that lives in Salt Lake City, or Provo, or Ogden, is not going to at discord with rural Utah counties MUCH of the time and you'll find your Republican representatives and Senators will care very little about your concerns.

    Rural counties NEED rural representation, period.

  • coleman51 Orem, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 4:39 p.m.

    Representative Jim DeBackis has no room to talk. He and his caucus was clearly informed and after months of debate and citizen input in one of the most collaborative and open processes in our history, a map was finally drawn. The only reason why it was voted on by the Republican caucus in a close-door meeting at the end was because of a threatened law-suit by the Democrats who are a bunch of party hacks and will resist any effort to re-draw districts that is not allowing one district to be completely Salt Lake county. This has been the most fair process ever in redistricting and will easily survive any lawsuit from the Democrats. The Democratic Party needs to grow up and accept the urban-rural premise for all four districts in the state.

  • Allen#1 West Valley, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 4:19 p.m.

    Matheson should NOT even think of running for governor. Governor Herbert is one of the few Republicans who will receive this registered Republican's vote.

    IF Matheson thinks he has a high favorable rating by Utah residents, he needs to run in either his new or old gerrymandered district...or better yet, run for the Senate against Orrin who has been in the Senate 3 terms too long.

    BTW, why wasn't Rob Bishop's 1st Congressional District radically realined? Rich, Cache, Box Elder, Weber, Tooele, Juab, Millard, Beaver, Iron, Washington, Kane, etc. counties have more in common than Rich, Cache, Box Elder, Weber, and Davis counties. Davis County is NOT a rural county anymore.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 4:15 p.m.

    @Sal

    So would you feel the same if the Democrats had gerrymandered the state? I'm sure a flippant "to the victor go the spoils" wouldn't exit your mouth.

    I don't care so much about the redistricting. I am being moved from the 2nd to the 3rd District regardless and being "represented" by a man who wants to eliminate my job and my family's livelihood. My problem is the way it was done behind closed doors. The public's business needs to be done in public. If I am paying their mileage, hotel, per diem, and salary, I deserve to know what is going on. They are employed by me and as their boss, I demand better than be to called a "crybaby."

  • rightascension Provo, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 4:00 p.m.

    I have been Republican since 1974, but here lately I feel like I am in a family that has gone utterly dysfunctional. I really dislike the redistricting map, how this map suddenly appeared in secret(from where??), and that the legislators voted for it about the time Utahns were getting ready for bed.

    Rural Utah should be in one district. The legislature finally had a chance to consolidate rural Utah into its own specialized district. Voters could elect someone from somewhere other than the Wasatch Front to Congress. Instead the legislature passed THIS map. All 4 representatives could live on the Wasatch Front. 3 of them could live in Salt Lake County.

    Giving the Provo district Emery, Grand, and San Juan Counties is awful. Exactly what issues does Provo and Moab have in common? The rural counties should have received their own specialized house district centered on Saint George.

    SLC and St.G in the same district? Unbelieveable

    If the Republicans cannot defeat James Matheson on principles, they shouldnt do it by redrawing the lines. Just because it is done elsewhere is no excuse to do it here.

    Governor Herbert should veto the map.

  • Sal Provo, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 3:51 p.m.

    To the winner go the spoils. If Democrats don't like the new maps then they need to appeal to more voters in order to have more control over the process.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 18, 2011 3:35 p.m.

    I'll have to agree with President Obama on this issue. He had this to say about the GOP joining Democratic efforts for reform: They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back.

    If it applies to the GOP in Washington why shouldn't it apply to Democrats in Utah?

  • ClarkKent Bountiful, Utah
    Oct. 18, 2011 3:01 p.m.

    Last statistic I read Utah's population was 62% LDS -- a church that has much to say against secret combinations. Do these LDS politicians practice what they preach? Guess not ...

  • S.Andrew Zaelit Deseret, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 2:45 p.m.

    Demos may sue? Count on it. This has been their plan all along. Sure as the sun comes up in the east and sets in the west, they will sue. Never doubt the Demos love with litigation and judicial fiat. Is everyone ready to have your voting rights held hostage?

  • yarrlydarb Ogden, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 1:06 p.m.

    To A_Chinese_American | 12:47 p.m. Oct. 18, 2011

    The problem is not close[d] door meetings, nor "crying baby," it's governing of the people, by the people, for the people.

    Republicans show by their actions that they believe in "of the elected, for the elected, by the elected."

    And the people should therefore be thankful to "Big brothers," all.

  • A_Chinese_American Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 12:47 p.m.

    I jusy LOL when reading most of the crying baby here! Stop whining, period. It's legal to have a close door meetings, show me how it is iilegal! People, remember this: ? "you will know it after you pass it" That documentation would change our nation was not even being discussed before it passed. Still whining? LOL

  • Mukkake Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 12:18 p.m.

    This is why it doesn't matter if you vote or not in Utah. Everything has already been decided ahead of time in backroom, secret meetings.

    If you want to be part of the political process, stop voting and join a secret combination.

  • Conservative Veteran Layton, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 11:43 a.m.

    I suspect if the Democrat legislators not been so quick to threaten a lawsuit, that the conversations would not have been behind closed doors.

    As far as requiring a full citizen review at each level of the process to establish the new congressional map, at some point you have to take all the feedback given to that point, draw a vote on the map most favored and move on. I believe this is what occured.

    I also believe with some honestly, the disagreements are not really about the process of selection of the current map, but more closely aligned to disagreement with the premise of the urban/rural map of the state.

    Was the end result perfect? No. But if I were one of the members of the legislature - which I am not, I also would have voted as they did for the current map - based on what I have learned has been going on over the last year in the selection process.

  • yarrlydarb Ogden, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 11:28 a.m.

    Closed doors is the problem and the Republican congress loves doing public business that way.

    That's interesting because they are representatives BECAUSE they won their election.

    Why do they then have to go behind closed doors to govern?

    Why don't they govern in the open since they were duly elected?

    What is their fear and what do they have to hide?

    But the bigger question is, why is the majority of the Utah electorate content with a closed-door governing process that the Republicans feel a constant need to conduct?

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 11:26 a.m.

    @ Allen#1

    If you look at the map, Davis County has been split in half, unless perhaps Layton and Bountiful are no longer both in Davis County.

    Did you give public input on your suggestion or save it until now?

    Salt Lake County ought to be split in half for area codes with the northern half joining Davis County and the southern half joining Utah County, but NO, they wouldn't go fo that so now we have the goofy 10-digit dialing for every number and the new area code 385 is sprinkled among who knows where.

    I'm wondering what some of these areas have in common, other than we are all residents of the state of Utah and we are now gropued into 4 areas instead of 3. Certainly there was political reasons for the new map; I don't know why people expect politicians to do anything that isn't political in nature as that's their area of expertise....they got elected -- so apparently they think they know best.

  • Allen#1 West Valley, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 10:55 a.m.

    The new map stinks.

    Why not put Cache, Box Elder, Rich, Morgan, Tooele, Juab, Millard, Beaver, Washington and other "rural" counties into one district and split the heavily populated Wasatch Front into the other 3 counties?

    If it is fair to split Salt Lake County into 4 districts, wouldn't it be fair to split Utah and Davis counties into 2 separate districts?

  • As If! Layton, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 10:07 a.m.

    I like the map. I think it's right that the area where the greatest proportion of people be broken up into four groups. If one political party wants to win a race for a representative, show that they have the best candidate regardless of their afiliation.

  • dalefarr South Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 18, 2011 10:07 a.m.

    Fairness apparently is not a value in this state. No surprise. This nonsense will continue until a large part of the community learns the difference between "voting" and "sustaining".

  • Lux et Veritas Draper, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 10:04 a.m.

    A "Senate leaders meeting in Argentina?"

    What the...? Why are Utah taxpayers paying to send a state Senator to a meeting in Argentina? This so soon after legislators went to meetings in Hawaii on the public dime?

    Really?? Have these people never heard of Skype?

  • Mormon Left North Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 9:27 a.m.

    The threat of a lawsuit was simply an excuse to close the doors, not a genuine concern. Every bill the legislature passes carries the threat of litigation from one group or another. If the legislature closed the doors and met secretly over every bill that might be litigated they would never have a public and open debate on anything.

    And anyway, this is not some business decision, this is the democratically elected state legislature. Open and public decision-making is one of the very cornerstones of our system and should never be discarded. The best way to avoid litigation, resentments, distrust, etc., is to have a completely open process, ensuring a sound, logical, and object process.

  • m.g. scott LAYTON, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 9:14 a.m.

    Dear Kami in Bountiful. I appreciate your sentiment, and I'm sure it works for children and church, BUT, in the real world, we have to use all of the power we have to fight for our principles or we as a state and nation will end up like the bankrupt state I came from. We should see by now that being nice to the Democratic party does not get us progress, it only gets us stepped on. I look at this as a national fight, not just a local one. I'm sure most Democrats here in Utah would be nice people to be around. But, Harry Reid???
    Nancy Pelosi??? We can't let people like that ruin our country. We have to change course and fast. Respectfully.

  • UtahResident Lehi, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 8:40 a.m.

    How many of you, if you had a lawsuit hanging over your head, would openly talk about issues that were guaranteed to be brought up in the lawsuit. "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say may be used against you in a court of law." Quickest way to shut someone up is to bring in the lawyers. If the democrats wanted it to remain open, they should have never threatened a lawsuit.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 8:33 a.m.

    This solution is as good as any. It has the same number of people in each district, which is the ONLY actual requirement, ensuring "one man, one vote."

    As for some Democrat whining that "...each district is more than 62 percent Republican..." anyone smarter than a fifth grader would note that the entire state is more than 62 percent Republican, so this is a fair solution. To end up with a Democrat majority Congressional District would indeed be gerrymandering of the worst kind, as would ensuring Republican super majorities in three of the districts.

    Now, let the election races begin, and see if the Democrats have any luck selling their big spending, big government solutions to Utah voters.

  • UTAH Bill Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 3:43 a.m.

    As a registered Republican, I'm disappointed in how this whole thing went down. The closed caucuses particularly frustrate me. I can't speak for other Republicans in this state - but this one will be voting for the opposition in the next election to send a message. I hope a significant number in my party will join me.

  • Beenlistening CENTRAL, UT
    Oct. 18, 2011 1:25 a.m.

    Many Utah voters, including me, will REMEMBER what our "lawmakers" (and our Governor) did this past year. They have done everything possible to destroy any rights that the people of this state have.

    They announce in the newspapers that they send out questionnaires to their constituents asking our opinions concerning legislation to be brought up in their next sessions. I have lived in the same home, and been registered to vote, for nearly 6 years. I have never received one of these questionnaires -- or any other correspondence from my Republican State Legislators.

    There is something wrong with the governing in this state, and it needs to be changed.

  • stevo123 slc, ut
    Oct. 18, 2011 12:44 a.m.

    Why is Waddoups in Argentina? Who is with him? Who is paying for this little junket? This is crazy!

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 11:32 p.m.

    For all of you crying about this, just remember that these are the same folks that gave us HB 477. Proof of your being upset will be reflected at the ballot box in the next election. If history is any marker, voters will prove again that they have short memories, as politicians thrive on such.

  • swah10 South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 11:17 p.m.

    Our Utah Republicans act just like the Obama Democrats. They don't care what the public thinks, they know best. Remeber the Democratic Speaker of the House telling us that we would find out what was in Obamacare after it was passed. The federal dems didn't care what the public thought. Doesn't that remind you of the Utah Republicans. Going back a few years, a majority of the patrons of the state did not want vouchers. Guess what, they passed the bill anyway. "We don't care what you want or what you think. We know best." Sound familiar. We do need to vote out every legislator who participated in the closed and secret caucus.

  • MormonDem Provo, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 11:05 p.m.

    dumprake: if it were just about doing what the majority wants, why did the Republicans not go along with one of the publicly-developed and publicly-scrutinized plans? Why didn't they pay attention to any of extensive public input? Why did they make this decision behind closed doors in a private caucus?

    You say nobody likes democratic values. Are you saying you DO like the values on display in this process? Are secrecy, smoke-filled rooms, and utter disregard for the public the Republican values that are important to you?

  • dumprake Washington, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 9:55 p.m.

    Waah, waah, waah, you're Democrats, nobody likes you or your values, which is why you're an insignificant minority in Utah. This is a Republic, the majority decides. Utah certainly didn't elect a heavily Republican legislature, only to have the Democrats decide the districting issues. Stop whining and swallow your medicine.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 17, 2011 8:36 p.m.

    Charles,

    Rather than get down in the gutter and insult you like you did with me, I think I will just stick to the facts. The Utah State Constitution like most state constitutions is crafted after the US Constitution, so there are many common principles. I thought most people understood that concept.

    Not sure what your list of programs approved by the United States Congress have to do with doing the peoples business being done in a closed caucus but oh well it is a nice list I guess.

    The US Constitution was based on the Virginia state constitution and as you correctly point out was written behind closed doors. You neglect to point out however that it was thoroughly debated in public and took two years for the states to ratify. The problem with the Utah state legislature is that the debate is always done in private, not in public where it belongs.

    In terms of Maryland I will take your word that what you say is true. I believe wrong is wrong, I don't care about R's and D's.

    I hope this time I know what I am talking about.

  • PostModernThinker Holladay, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 8:23 p.m.

    Just more examples of second-rate government....

  • yarrlydarb Ogden, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 8:02 p.m.

    "Tensions high over drawing new congressional districts; Republicans come up with new map"

    This Republican Congress has made history as the most incompetent and self-serving in history.

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Oct. 17, 2011 8:00 p.m.

    "Democrats are irrelevant in Utah; now if we can only make that happen nationwide we will restore this nation to what it once was - prosperous!"

    Really? You really think that all we need is complete GOP control to make this country "prosperous"?

    If only it were that easy.

    If only history proved you out.

    Be careful what you wish for.

  • @Charles the greater outdoors, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 7:26 p.m.

    Hey Fred: You do realize that the Constitution of the US has no dictates on how things are done in state legislatures, right?

    And while were are talking about what isn't in the US Constitution lets add the following:

    Obamacare
    Social Security
    Medicare
    foreign aid
    Cars for Clunkers
    Bailouts
    Government takeover of companies
    Cornhusker Kickback
    the 2nd Louisiana Purchase

    just to name a few.

    I was reading an article from Maryland the other day and it was the exact reverse of what is happening in Utah. The Repubs in Maryland are saying the same thing that the Dems in Utah are saying about redistricting. Are you concerned about their secrecy or just when it happens to Dems?

    It would be helpful if you got a copy of the US Constitution and the Utah Constitution and read both of them.

    Then the next time you post you'll know what you are talking about.

    Also, can you tell me if the creating of the Constitution was done in the open or behind closed doors?

    Democrats are irrelevant in Utah; now if we can only make that happen nationwide we will restore this nation to what it once was - prosperous!

  • stowaway Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 7:21 p.m.

    "What the ...?!" David Garbett says. Something is seriously wrong if the citizen map drawer doesn't even recognize his own map.

  • Melanna Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 17, 2011 7:08 p.m.

    bring the process into the light of the public eye.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 17, 2011 5:59 p.m.

    Mary,

    I agree with you especially the part about working within the constitutional framework. Our founding fathers created a system where the work of the legislature was to be done in the chambers of their respective houses in full view of the people. There is nothing in the constitution that calls for political parties and caucuses. There is certainly nothing in the constitution that calls for decisions to be made in a caucus and then brought out for a show vote because you have a super majority. The founders thought debate and disagreement was healthy and would lead to decisions that would best serve constituents.

    Creating the caucus system in way that was not expressly prohibited by the founding fathers in not illegal, but using it to prevent the public from seeing issues debated was certainly not what the founding fathers had in mind. If the Utah republican legislators truly cared about the constitution, they would honor its intent.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 5:49 p.m.

    All that was needed to drive this effort legally behind closed doors was the potential of a lawsuit, which was quickly threatened last week by the minority party.

    I'll leave it to you to determine if that was a wise thing to say.....or not.

  • Mary E Petty Sandy, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 5:24 p.m.

    Lane Myer

    Our elected representatives do represent the whole of their districts, whether or not the whole agree with their votes all of the time. No US Congressman is ever in 100% agreement with their constituency, but they still represent their district.

    Our Representatives have taken an oath to sustain and defend the US Constitution. I vote for the man or woman who I think will do this best for me and my district. Sometimes I am happy and sometimes I am disappointed, but I am grateful that we have Congressional elections every two years so the voice of the people have a thumbs up or thumbs down vote on renewing our Representatives elected status. May our Congressmen never forget they are only an election away from a return to private life.

    What makes sense to me is working and living in a community that holds my values and understanding of the Constitution. And then joining together with my like-minded neighbors to elect a representative who supports and will work for this within the Constitutional framework.

    I've been involved in my community for over 50 years and win or loose, every election that is what I do.

  • @Charles the greater outdoors, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 4:59 p.m.

    In the infamous words of your Dear Leader:

    "Elections have consequences. We won!"

    Enough said!

    And Lane, Senators are supposed to represent the interests of the state, not the people of the state and where does it say in the COTUS that the Representative is supposed to represent the people in their district?

    Maybe you should move to a state that is dominated by Democrats and you'll feel better about life.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 4:44 p.m.

    Argentina calls for an inquiry.

  • Lane Myer Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 4:25 p.m.

    Mary E Petty

    Why have districts if all our representatives are suppose to think, act, and vote like the majority? Why not just have a state vote for 4 congressmen?

    The answer is that they are suppose to represent the people in their district - senators represent the whole state.

    If there are 25% of the citizens who are democratic, shouldn't 25% of the congressmen be democratic? Doesn't that make more sense?

  • Mary E Petty Sandy, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 4:06 p.m.

    Nobody likes change, but I am grateful we finally have our 4th Seat so Utah can contribute more to federal legislative decisions. With Utah being a conservative leaning State, I expect our State legislature to create a Congressional map with 4 district boundaries that will reflect this majority view point. And I expect this voice of the people of Utah will speak loudly in the next election cycle as a result of our legislators redistricting actions.

    Redistricting will ruffle feathers but it is a tough job that must be done by our elected officials. That is what we the people have elected them to do. As a part of their constitutionally-mandated duty to redistrict Utah, they have openly involved the public in the process and are listening to us. I for one, thank them for doing this hard work in our behalf.

  • Wasatch Al South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 3:42 p.m.

    Senator Waddoups is in a senate leadership meeting in Argentina? Guess who paid for that boondoogle? Yep, you did! That's why he likes to keep those districts pure republican.

  • Mormon Left North Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 3:31 p.m.

    Tell me again why we don't set up an independent and objective process of redistricting? This is, once again, representatives picking their voters instead of the other way around. And save me the "both sides do it." As Kami said, that doesn't make it right or desirable.

  • jean22 Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 3:31 p.m.

    I would like to thank my representative, Jim Nielson, for standing up to the Republican party leadership and letting it be known that he thinks these caucuses should be open. I agree that the Republicans are doing themselves a disservice (and they are doing their constituents a disservice) in closing the meetings. I wish more Republicans would stand up for what is right and fair, rather than just doing what they think will allow them to keep their jobs (gerrymandering behind closed doors). PLEASE represent US, not yourselves.

  • Johnny Triumph American Fork, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 3:19 p.m.

    I like it, let's get this thing settled!

  • Kami Bountiful, Utah
    Oct. 17, 2011 3:00 p.m.

    @m.g.scott, Your position is commonly seen on the boards "I should be able to do this because I see other people doing it too", so I'm not picking on you, just saw your post as an example here. Let me just say that this mindset is EXACTLY what is wrong with this country. By the time my children were 8 years old they knew they would never get away with that argument again to justify their unacceptable behavior. Is all we have left in this country are a bunch of followers who are following the wrong leader? Why won't people stand up for what is right these days, instead of trying to excuse their behavior because they see others doing it too?

  • Cedarite Cedar City, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 2:55 p.m.

    Rural Utah gets the short end of the stick in the "pizza slices". Salt Lake area always will get the representational priority and our issues will never be addressed. Southern Utah deserves it's own congressman rather than continuing as unrepresented peasants who are only spoken to at election time.

  • m.g. scott LAYTON, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 2:27 p.m.

    I'm from California. You should experience it when the Democrats do just the same and ramrod new districts through that disenfranchise the Republicans, for both state and federal offices. Complaints didn't get traction there, and I for one am glad to see some Republicans taking a hard ball approach. If you have the majority, take full advantage of it. I doubt the Democrats would do it any different if they were in control.

  • GZE SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 2:11 p.m.

    "Senate Leaders' meeting" in Argentina? ReallY?

  • GZE SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 1:58 p.m.

    I'm sorry. "A Senate Leaders' conference in Argentina"? Really?

  • Kami Bountiful, Utah
    Oct. 17, 2011 1:57 p.m.

    If they had nothing to hide, they wouldn't need to meet in secrecy.

  • FatherOfFour WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Oct. 17, 2011 1:47 p.m.

    I agree with Fred44. Toss the whole lot of them and start over. Whoever campaigns against this current group has my support.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 17, 2011 1:30 p.m.

    Please all Utahn's rise up and vote out every member of the House who went into that closed door caucus. I don't care if you replace them with R's or D's, but replace them. There blatant disregard for the citizens of this state is shameful and should be rewarded by sending them all packing.