Gerrymandering is the fear. How about this?Let us assume that there are 7
districts. I don't know how many there really are but for this discussion 7 will
do.Go to the corner furthest from the population, SW probably, and walk NE
until one seventh of the population is both south and west of you. Place a stake
there and that is one district.Probably go west to the Nevada border and
do the same. If you have to go so far as to produce a "pan-handle"
then get rid of the pan-handle and make either a larger square or a
rectangle.Work your way around cities in this manner, SW to NW corners,
When at a major city, start at the North boundary and go south or in the center
and extend 4 lines (NE,SE,SW,NW)till the city is covered.It would be best
to have someone (or at most a jury of 12) who has some smarts, respect for the
Constitution, but no real dog in the fight to give some boundary suggestions.
The legislature should and must decide.
@Duckhunterfor some reason I doubt you read the thread our you would
know the majority of the comments have been about closed door meetings (not
special districts) and have been made by both liberal and conservative posters.
I agree with Karen Morgan. "We don't want to be voting on any maps that
haven't had a public hearing". Thank you, Senator, for recognizing that
the process taking place is not right nor fair. Thank heavens we have, at least
a few, in the legislature interested in representing the people. Carry on,
Senator. May others follow your example.
Aren't these the same folks that did all agree we should have HB477 foisted on
us last legislation session? I think I'm right about that. Just wondering....
they dont get paid enough to just do the job, so they have other jobs or special
interests to make ends meet. so coruption is almost always going to take place.
These comments reflect the polls and surveys taken all summer. The public
feedback is the BOTH urban and rural voters do NOT want mixed districts. They
support doughnut maps that SEPARATE urban districts from rural districts so that
each districts feels its Congressional Representative in DC would be elected
from their district and focus on THEIR needs!Represent Me Utah on
line poll(survey monkey) states 67% of respondents preferred separate districts,
keeping communities together, i.e. some variation of a doughnut hole map. Even
many rural communities prefer this as evidenced in the comments today. The
Tribune survey(outsourced polling company)reported 54% felt the SAME WAY! Support a COMPROMISE THIS Friday at the Capitol 9:00 am. Provide public
input for a COMPROMISE map to be reviewed again that DAY! The GOP
majority legislature and Governor want MIXED districts so they can continue to
dilute voters powers and maintain a super majority state and a united voice in
DC, especially about regaining control of federal lands for mining and drilling.
Both Chair Sumsion (Patrick Henry Caucus member) and Gov. Herbert support mixed
districts for this reason.
@DuckhunterSo you are okay with government in secret, as long as
your side gets what they want? Keeping public business in closed door sessions
is what you stand for? I would think that all Utahns would be outraged about
closed door sessions for anyhting that doesn't deal directly with national
security. They are OUR representatives. WE pay their salary. WE are affected
by their decisions. WE deserve to know what goes on. Left or
right, this closed door stuff needs to stop. In your little rant
above, you sound like the typical bully. "I have the power and you can't
partake in my power trip." That's all I hear. How is it in the best of
interest of the citizens of the city of Holladay to have be represented by THREE
US Congressmen? How many represent Highland - where you live? I was moved from
District 2 to District 3 in this new plan. I'm not happy about that at all. My
representative, who is supposted to represent me wants to take away my
livelihood. Should I be thrilled about that? I'm just as much a taxpayer as
you are and I deserve to be represented fairly.
I personally do not care near as much about the final product as I do about the
way we get to the final product. I think it is interesting that many who seem
to support republicans come on here and talk about whining dems and liberals of
which I not a whiner a dem or a liberal, just simply a person who believes that
the peoples business should be conducted in the light of day. I am surprised
that republicans who always talk of the their love of the constitution wouldn't
want to follow it to the letter all the time, not just when it serves their
political purposes. Do the peoples business in the light of day,
and invite all to see. If you are doing whats right for the people you have
nothing to hide.
It would be impossible to make a congressional districts that are pureley rural.
1st of all you can't do it geographically without some major gerrymandering and
2nd of all the population dispersal in the sate simply wouldn't allow it. The
fact is a mix of urban and rural in each district is the best solution as every
rep would have responsibilities to both constituencies and geographically it
makes the most sense.Face it, all of this whining is because dems
want a guarnateed seat and has nothing to do with equal representation. Their
bogus and politically motivated claims should be laughed at, scorned, and
ultimately ignored as they are obviously neither factual or ethical.
The redistricting committee had open public meetings throughout the state for
the past 3 or 4 months so they could say the process was open. Yet, when they go
into closed caucus meetings and then completely ignore the input they got in the
open meetings, it shows that something is wrong with the process.I
think they heard over and over again how rural Utah wanted representation yet
when they propose the pizza solution, there is going to be a high probability
we'll have four congressmen from the Urban Salt Lake Metro area. Rural Utah
needs its own representative, not someone from Salt Lake who says they
understand rural issues because all rural Utah knows if it's south of point of
the mountain (maybe you could say Payson) it's northern Arizona in their minds
and not their problem.
All I'm reading here is a bunch of lib/dems whining that they can't get elected
unless they are given special consideration and protected status. Let me tell
you what it will take dems. Just become a party with ideals that people want to
vote for. It won't matter what the district boundaries are if you do that. But
of course you have no interest in that. You want to be given your own district
without having to do the will of the majority of the voters fo this state. To
the contrary you want to force your will on the rest of us without even being
representative of what we prefer. Sorry but in this instance you
lose, and you should lose. Most of us don't want you or what you stand for. It
really is as simple as that. Quit whining about it and change yourselves to
reflect the values of the pople of the state and you'll win elections.I guess that is to simple a formula for you.
One difference in Senators and Representatives is that Senators get four years
between elections and Representatives only get two years. Representatives have
to start running for election after their legislative session is over. Senators
on the other hand get a little more time and a lot of the time, the Senators
were Representatives prior. They have built statesmanship and also like the
position they are in, in the Senate, especially for the Republicans since they
have a majority forever. The Senators have probably more commonsense, at least
in Utah. To run for office is more expensive for Senators and that means they
get more PAC type money. Representatives have a lot larger number in their
House, especially for Republicans from around the state. In redistricting for
many cycles, the rurals, which is most of Utah have taken the hit. Their
representation is going down as the office holders look at getting the most bang
out of their campaign buck. It doesn't take very much of the Santaquin to
Brigham City piece to wipe out the impact of the rest of the state if
proportioned right. The main object for the Republicans is not to have any
Democrats in office.
Apparently the State Legislature is using the US Congress as a model on how to
do (or NOT do) business. There current approval rating is around 15% at
best.I have an idea for Utah voters: Next election send a new group
to the State Capitol in SLC and let them know you expect statemanship, not
There is no perfect solution and to keep trying for one just gets those opposed
even more riled up. I agree with the rural issues are different from
Urban issues. However, no matter how you draw the map, you would have to
include some urban area (like St. George) in any "rural" district.
Having a rep from St. George represent someone from Snowville is ridiculous
also. The pizza slice method would make every rep. at least have to listen
to constituents from rural areas of the state. I know all the reps would be
from the Wasatch Front "urban" areas. But no matter how you draw it
the reps will be from urban areas...that is where the people are. As for
democrats crying about being disenfranchised, win and you wont be. The supreme
court has consistently upheld boundaries drawn for political reasons. The only
thing you can't do is draw boundaries that disenfranchise based on race, sex, or
have disjointed geography (like St. George and Logan being in the same district
with no continuous geography in between.)
The redistricting game is one reason partisanship has increased. Carving out
districts to ensure a politically homogenous group preserves an incumbent, but
often creates an environment where more extreme candidates can get elected.
I have nothing to add here that hasn't already been said. If you know you are
doing the right thing, you shouldn't have to hide it. Have open meetings about
this and invite the public to be a part of them. Rural and urban areas have
different issues and should not be lumped in together. And as Innocent
Bystander said "The voters are supposed to be able to choose their
representatives, not the incumbents choose their voters."
If the State Legislature in its attempt to provide voter representation for the
election of representatives to Congress by using a rural/urban mix, then it
would be just far better to make them into at-large seats because by mixing up
differences of voters, there really isn't any true representation, just a
homogeneous whole. the majority population is attempting to eliminate
differences as if voters are all the same, while the minority population is
seeking some voice. Setting Congressional Districts should be about real
representation of our differences and seeking compromise instead of the majority
seeking to impose the will on everyone.
"... spent much of the day behind closed doors..."Whatever
happened to the open meetings requirement? Secrecy only enhances the view of
Utah Republicans as Criminals.Districts should be drawn without
regard to the political parties of those within the boundaries.I'm
literally fed up with Utah's Governmental leaders.
So much for open government. Why do these important meetings involving how OUR
votes are counted closed?
The redistricting is a huge mess. Listening to public input was a sham and
charade. Keep up the phoning, protesting, and truth-telling! The voters are
supposed to be able to choose their representatives, not the incumbents choose
their voters. This may require our own "occupy Wall Street" movement
on Utah's State Street, where money and power meet behind closed doors at the
Capitol Building. Fixing just District 2 is not enough, as the
proposed new District 4 is a gift to the Republicans--apparently Wimmer--and
exposes the lie that the districts should all be a pizza slice with an
urban/rural mix.District 2 was pivoted across the state giving
Matheson different constituents than he had ever known and also dumped every
announced Republican contender out of residence. My house in east Salt Lake
County moved from Matheson to Chaffitz. That wasn't for the voters--it was
clearing the way for someone to run from OUR RULING CLASS, the Utah
legislature's veto proof Republican super-majority. Restoring District 2, to
whatever degree, is about the incumbent Republican Governor, to keep a squeezed
out Matheson from running for Governor.District lines are wrong
until voters choose their representatives.
People haven't you all figured it out. It stopped long ago about being
Republican, or Democrat politics, it's what am I going to do when I am in that
seat, what am I going to get out of this job, what will I need to do to keep it
and stay in this seat. Hasn't the politics of this country and the way it is
going telling you what, is what. All the issues this country is facing, and
nothing is getting done, Immigration is still out of control, the border is
still unsecured, drug war failed, but still pumping money in it, unemployment is
up and at 20%, not 9 like they say, they forget to put 16 to 18 year old's in
that, remember they used to work too, food costs are up, oil cost per barrel is
at 75.00 a barrel, gas is 3.40 at the pump, should be 2.75, or 2.80, illegal
immigrants using the state system and getting food stamps, and anything else,
property taxes are up, has anything changed.... Nope comes to mind, they are in
it for themselves and We The People doesn't mean a thing.
They also separated Brambles district in Provo with 200 people from Wallsburg.
Since the district now crosses county lines, Utah county will not be able to
vote him out in the country caucus, it will be decided by the state. The HB116
gang has struck again.
It is alarming that the Republican majority would attempt to disenfranchise not
only such a huge segment of Utah's population, the dreaded Democrats, but also
those in rural areas who would simply not be represented with the
"pizza" map. Living in a rural area, my concerns are vastly different
from those of someone in an urban area.We have a representative
government. That's Civics 101. But if my representative does not actually
represent the majority of his constituents, it's not a representative
government. SLC is an entity unto itself in this state - lots of Democrats
there. So what? They also have lots of urban issues the rest of the state does
not have. SLC should have the right to select its own representative to
represent its own issues and interests. Rural areas should have that same right.
I live in a rural area, and I would be very disappointed if my representative
did not represent me in that way.We need to grow up here and stop
playing politics. Those who take the Constitution seriously should understand
that true representative government is much more important than party politics.
I really don't like the idea of mixing urban with rural. Rural Utah has needs
and issues far different than any urbanite knows or understands.
Ben McAdam's proposal is a good-faith effort that garnered support from the
Senate. Why are the extremists in the house so opposed?Shame on the
GOP for this rampant dishonesty and corruption. You know what they say about
Why can't the republicans do their business in the light of day? Why do they
have their discussions in caucus meetings and not on the floor? Don't these
republicans who claim to be lovers of the constitution understand that the
founders advised against political parties, and therefore did not intend for the
debate to be behind closed doors in caucus meetings. When was the last time
that the Utah legislature had a meaningful debate on the floor? This map or
that map may disenfranchise a segment of Utah voters, but we are all
disenfranchised when the legislature does their business behind closed doors.Why are the republicans so afraid to let the citizens see government in
action? What are they doing behind closed doors that they obviously don't want
the public to see?Please republicans be respectful of the citizens
of this great state and bring this debate to floors of the respective houses, so
all elected members can participate and so we the people can see what you are