Well said Mark. Spoken like a true collectivist. The next Stalin will have a
place for you next to his throne.
We are at war with terrorism, and when a citizen (albeit former citizen)decides
to embark on a mission with the terrorists, I believe he had forfeited his
citizenry rights and protections because he is a traitor, a war criminal.
Having the man brought to justice and his day in court makes the most sense, but
how are we supposed to capture him bring him to justice? The nation where he
resides may or may not capture him and turn him over. Our nations' action of
assassination on foreign soil - would that action from other nations be welcome
here? Usually when there is a foreign criminal on the loose in the United
States, our country would try to capture him/her, and send them back. The most troubling thing in this is the Executive Branch of the government
making ordering the killing more like an executive privilege.
Rise up, Libertarians. Vote for Ron Paul regardless of the anointed candidate.
He is the only hope for this country and our Constitution.
Jesus said something that every American should consider before endorsing a
candidate."Beware of Wolves is sheeps clothing. By their fruits
ye shall know them."I have beheld the fruits of Ron Paul and
they taste good. Ronmey and Obama on the other hand, have pretty rotten fruit.
What Jesus is saying is do some reseacrh before endorsing a
candidate. Don't endorse somebody because they claim they are of the same
religon as you are.
dferg"Wow; this article has really riled up the Paulbots. The
Paulistas. The "Tinfoil Hat" brigade. Always good for a
chuckle......"So anybody who reads and supports the
constitution is a conspiracy theorist? I weep for Americas future. The
constituion clearly doesn't mean what it should mean to Americans anymore. They
draw near it with their voices but their hearts are far from it.
Ron Paul is the only one that understands that we have something in this country
called DUE PROCESS. Our government seems to have adopted the philosophy of shoot
first and ask questions later.
The article might actually qualify as news or a service to the readers if the
author had taken the time to actually determine just WHY Ron Paul said what he
did about this incident. Initially, I too felt that he had made a
mistake, but after doing some research and hearing his explanations, I must
conclude that Ron Paul is indeed correct and has the thinking and actions of a
true statesman.Can this power that now rests in the hands of the
President, be used against other American citizens? Who is to decided if there
is sufficient justification for such action? Perhaps our elected senators and
representatives? Or do we have no further use of them? Beware,
this power can be used against YOU! How do you defend yourself if you are
falsely accused? Does being a veteran or owning a gun or believing in God
qualify you as a "Terrorist"? Just what will it take to label YOU as
"an enemy of the state"? In order pursue truth, may I
suggest that you google Ron Paul for President 2012 and read where he stands on
To the author,All I have to say to you is what Ron Paul said to
Romney, "Read the constitution."If you did you would know
that Ron Paul is correct in his assessment.
Anwar al-Awlaki was executed at the end of a very long trial. He would have been
better off to return to the United States and be found "not guilty"
just like any other criminal in our legal system. Instead of a "court of
law," in which truth results from manipulation (lawyers) and whim (judges),
he chose a "court of justice."
Everyone should know and take heed that this very case could be used in a court
of law as a precedent against any U.S. citizen. They strip our very right of due
process by instilling this false fear and by the looks of it a very distorted
view as Paredes mentions we're in a war with "religious fanatics".
Realize that this assassinated US citizen had no evidence against him, but of
what we're told through the press AFTER they have killed him. That completely
takes away our Constitutional right of due process, the Obama administration
takes an oath to protect this valuable law of the land yet they continue to tear
it apart, right in front of our face. Ron Paul protects and follows
the Constitution, he protects and values our free-agency. He embodies our
teachings, and is the only one worthy of my vote. Heavenly Father told me to
vote for Ron Paul.
I suppose it was to much to ask to move beyond petty comments about each other
and have a real conversation about this issue. It is sad how these threads
continue to fail to live up to their potential.
Wow, I am quite sorry this article and the author Paredes is completely wrong,
this got past the editor? I can't believe such a thing, "Were at war with
religious fanatics who want to kill us..." When did we ever start talking
in such a way so hateful towards another religion even though he is completely
wrong in referencing a religion. Al-Qaeda is not a religion. People
trying to bring up the Revolutionary War to justify this assassination are
wrong, it was a revolt against the British and their taxes. The Americans
believed that they were entitled to the full democratic rights of Englishmen.
The British believed that the American colonies were just colonies, to be used
and exploited in whatever way best suited Great Britain.
Wow; this article has really riled up the Paulbots. The Paulistas. The
"Tinfoil Hat" brigade. Always good for a chuckle......
I am seventh generation Missouri Mormon on both sides of my family. Endorsing
the extra judicial murder of an American citizen is an astoundingly dimwitted
thing for a "Mormon" to do. The early Mormon movement was persecuted
relentlessly by corrupt pols and criminal bureaucrats. Applauding the state
sanctioned murder of a disfavored citizen is a betrayal of Mormonism and
xscribe"because its not torture." Are you sure you want
to stand by that statement? torturing a terrorist is worse that murdering a
terrorist. Now that defies logic. But you probably are against the death
penalty, yet you are for any kind of abortion.
If we kept our noses out of the business of the rest of the world we wouldn't
give anyone a reason to want to kill us. Solve the root problems and the
symptoms go away...
All you Ron Paulophiles are as nuts as he is. He would be a dangerous man to be
president. Since Mr. Terrorist chose to live in Yemen thereby essentially
renouncing his U.S. Citizenship, should we have gone into Yemen and arrested
him, brought in to trial for teason, and executed him? Same result, longer
process. My personal opinion is that the Founding Fathers would have no qualms
about what was done to Mr. Terrorist. Especially George Washington. He was a
man of war and knew what needed to be done. He would understand. As far as I'm
concerned, any U.S. citizen that actively fights against the U.S. is fair game.
They are not in the U.S. so the Constitutional protections do not apply to them.
Kill them there, kill them here, same result.
One detail that I have not heard concerning this story is.....How many other
people (probably innocent) were killed with this Drone attack??? What was the
value of their Lives???. Do We have a careless attitude about them??? "O
well, wrong place, wrong time, to bad" Shame on Us! But We're the
Christians that love Our Enemies and those that persecute and Hate Us right???
@VST - yes, you are correct - the declaration of war was by the Confederacy
against the Union states. However, that act by the Confederacy definitely put
those fighting in the rebel army in a "state of rebellion", which
placed response to them under the President's command per the Militia Act of
1792. So in that case the law was followed, which is the real issue.As to the Whiskey Rebellion - Washington used the Militia Act to justify it,
but whether an actual state of rebellion existed is debatable - and that the
rebellion if it existed was justified because it was against an act which was
not within the Constitutional limitations of the federal government is highly
likely. There were and are those who think Washington should have been
prosecuted for exceeding his authority; his actions and the response to them
certainly contributed to his not seeking a third term, and eventually to the
presidency of Thomas Jefferson, both of which were accomplished in accordance
with constitutional law. And again, that's the main point - we have laws, and
we ought to act according to them.
As an informed journalist, it is a sad fact that you are not only advocating
state sponsored murder but you are also condemning a genuine politician who
speaks out against these atrocities. So does the government have
right to kill any person that it sees as a threat? Also, if the said
acquisitions had any merit, why wasn't Alwaki tried in the court of law first?
Do you not see the failed logic here. In order to combat terrorism, it looks
like the US is itself invoking terror. The constitution is being thrown out of
the window, and governments are only infringing upon more and more public space
day by day. Preemptive violence by the state has become normative in America,
and this has to be stopped.And for that to happen, people should
protest for it. Big institutions like the government exist not to protect its
citizens, but rather to protect their own sustenance.
This article is ridiculous and pathetic for the following 3 reasons:#1 - "Dr. Paul, a noted isolationist" - Are you serious? That proves
how ignorant the author is.#2 - "A presidents first obligation
to this country is to protect it, and there is every reason to expect that a
President Paul would be unwilling to do so." - C'mon man. This is an
extremely asinine and utterly absurd comment. #3 - "His
reaction to the Al-Awlaki killing clearly shows that Ron Paul is not ready for
prime time." - Really? Again..... completely ignorant.This
article is absurd, foolish and insane. Just like the current foreign policy of
our war hungry country.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is in
large part because of that membership that I defended my country against
Socialist professors in high school and entered the service after my mission. I
taught the Constitution to basic trainees using book(s) which contained
quotations from both our country's founders and the Church's general
authorities. I learned my love of the Constitution because of our scriptures
and leaders' testimonies.So it is with a sad heart that I read words
such as these in a publication which is owned by the same Church. How can we
countenance the murder of American citizens without due process of law? Surely
if the government can do it to "them", they can do the same to
"us". Is this not the reason for such safeguards as found in the
Constitution and the Bill of Rights: To protect the least deserving of us so as
to protect the innocent majority?I can only hope that the management
and owners of Deseret News will reconsider their policies.Steve
Re: Riles - 12:08 p.m. Midway, UT To Brother Chuck:CAIR
didn't whine about it. They applauded it.Reply: With half of my
brain tied behind my back, I have more knowledge then you'll ever have from the
University of Utah's Hinckley Institute of Politics as well as any dialogue with
Sen. Orrin G. Hatch you may of had. Dr. Paul, a noted isolationist in his own
tiny bubble, would never have supported the deployment of American special
forces in the Middle East to track down terrorists and kill them, he would
rather bring them to trial in America?. LOL has no true symbolism and you to
are not ready for prime time either. Keep smiling, I know I
will.I told you I would tell you the truth, I didn't say you would
Dr. Paul, a noted isolationist in his own tiny bubble, would never have
supported the deployment of American special forces in the Middle East to track
down terrorists and kill them, he would rather bring them to trial in America?.
And what has Dr. Paul done to stop this, in his free time from counting all his
gold?. There are many Mohammedans (Muslims) in America today who are actively
working to see that our Constitution is "replaced or amended so as to
comply in all particulars with Islamic shariah law." Islamists who are
pursuing such goals are now using non-violent or, more accurately, pre-violent
techniques. Boston University history professor Richard Landes calls this
cognitive warfare and it's at the heart of what's already happening in many
public schools. According to the American Textbook Councils 2008 report, Islam
in the Classroom: What the Textbooks Tell Us, the 7th grade world history
textbooks they reviewed routinely sanitize the history of Islamic conquest. They
avoid all conflict and bloodshed in describing Islam's push out of Arabia and
rapid conquest of most of the Mediterranean world. Islam appears out of
nowhere, spreads smoothly and by implication without conflict.
To Brother Chuck:CAIR didn't whine about it. They applauded it. So
you're on the same side as those you're criticizing. How does it feel? LOL.
I wonder if future administrations will ask their attorney general to prosecute
those who ok'd and carried out this killing. This administration should
reexamine their political persecution of those who approved water boarding.
Shoddy journalism. Congressman Paul did not say that Al-Awlaki's death was sad,
but that lack of rule of law in killing him was sad. The difference is huge.
Paredes missed the McVeigh comment too. Paul stated that McVeigh was charged,
tried and executed without skirting the Constitution. What Paul has criticized
is the precedent that a President has claimed the power to kill American
citizens without charging them with a crime which was the case with Al-Awlaki.
The President need only order their death on the basis of government allegation.
Nice. Goodbye Constitution. It has nothing to do with whether or not Al-Awlaki
was a bad guy. Anyone who doesn't get it hates us for our freedom. Read the
Ron Paul don't know the truth's, he's stupid to.Radical U.S.-born
imam Anwar Al-Awlaki and other terrorists were blown up in Yemen and that's a
good thing. It should be done more ofter to rid our planet of these terrorists.
No matter how loud "CAIR" whines about it. In case ya'll don't
remember much about "CAIR", Il'' refresh your minds. Let there be no
doubt that the Council on American-Islamic Relations is a terrorist supporting
front organization that is partially funded by terrorists, founded by
terrorists, and that CAIR wishes nothing more than the implementation of Sharia
Law in America. Omar Ahmad was captured on FBI surveillance tapes at Hamas
meetings in the U.S.A. during 1993 explaining that the IAP could not, for
political reasons, admit its support for Hamas, and then discussing how the
Hamas agenda could be cloaked and advanced. Omar Ahmad's airfare and hotel
bills for this meeting were paid for by the Holy Land Foundation. Holy Land
Foundation Defendants Guilty On All Counts. "By funneling millions of
dollars to Hamas, this organization and its leaders believed that it could help
those who resort to violence to support their cause."
While I agree with the author in principal I do find it disappointing that they
spent so much time attacking Paul and less time explaining why they think the
killing was in keeping with the law and ethics of our country. Again while I
agree with the author in principal I think this is an important discussion to
have about if and/or when it is appropriate to kill American citizens that have
engaged in terrorist and war time acts. who gets to make those determinations
and what level of transparency is needed to avoid abuses are two questions that
come to mind. During anytime of war (declared or not) we have had these types of
issues, maybe we can learn from them what worked and what did not.
The Whiskey Rebellion took place in the infancy of the nation when the ideals of
redressing the government were not enshrined yet. To use that as a comparison
case similar to one in which laws have been in place for 225 years is a little
bit of a stretch, no? The differences don't end there of course.
The rebellion had actually become physically and verbally violent before the
militia was called up to put it down. Washington had also sent a peace
delegation, before engaging the militia, which was rebuffed. There is a place
for homeland security, I don't think anyone would dispute that keeping the peace
is an important value to hold. I think the response to the Whiskey Rebellion
was disproportionate and excessive. Summary executions or premeditated
assassinations of individuals (particularly American citizens) without any
redress or due process is flat out illegal. If you don't like it, change the
law, but be prepared for the Orwellian fallout.
I think the thing that bugs me more about this is that Brother Parades is a
member of my High Council here in LA. I know he means well and does a lot of
work in bridging the Jewish and LDS communities together but this does not mean
he is correct on this issue either from an LDS perspective or a constitutional
perspective.Our prophets have warned us over and over again
(especially Ezra Taft Benson), to adhere to the Constitution and learn it and
understand it and defend it. Its an inspired document that we are to fight for.
What happened is not constitutional in the slightest bit and we should be
worried about that. As an LDS member it saddens me when our own leaders do not
listen to our Prophets and stand up for our Constitution. Justifying the
killing of a US citizen, without due process is throwing out our rule of law and
placing the Constitution on the back burner while our government makes the
decision of who should be assassinated or not. This is not what are country is
about. We need to defend the Constitution!
Ron Paul comes the closest to be a constitutionalist of any of the highly
visible candidates. Of course he will step on some toes of those who have some
particular political ax to grind. I am not at all sad that this guy was
executed, but celebrating isn't appropriate because of respect for life, and the
fact that it is just an isolated instance, not a real victory in the war against
terrorism. And of course there is the due process issue, not be be taken
lightly. I also suspect that the article does not explain Ron Paul's full
explanation of his position. I'm not impressed with the article.
I agree 100% with author. If you'd defected during the revolutionary war you'd
have been treated as an enemy combatant. The same holds true of every war since,
up to and including this one. The world isn't a perfect place and rounding up
international terrorists isn't as easy as it sounds. There's no going in and
arresting international terror suspects. It puts lives at risk, but not yours,
so what does it matter - right?
Mr. Paredes,You are wrong on several accounts. Ron Paul is not an
isolationist, he is a non-interventionist. He did not say the fact that this
man is gone was sad, but the fact that we casually are accepting the idea that
the President can target American citizens for assassination without due process
is sad. If you look deeper than your visceral reaction, Ron Paul is always
talking about the principle, not so much the specifics of a given event. No
politician in America is ready for prime time, for clear headed thinking about
what is best for America than Ron Paul.
@ Delta.Yeah! Let's just send over a few hundred ICBMs to root out
the terrorists hiding amongst the millions. Those that die innocently are just
collateral damage anyway.I'm assuming you are in favor of pulling
all or our troops out of the Arab world. Since the extremists over there can't
be reasoned with and don't care about diplomacy there's no point to us training
their security forces, building their hospitals, schools, bridges...spilling our
blood. We should also stop funding the Arab world with aid too, right? Which
candidate proposes these measures anyway? Just askin'.
Where is the objective point of view in this story? The whole story is
completely one-sided! Nowhere in this article does he mention the reasons Dr.
Paul gave for his stand on what happened to Al-Awlaki. Not to mention the
ridiculous inefficient background he gave on Dr. Paul. I am assuming you did
this to try and discredit Dr. Paul. You lack absolute logic in your article! Question: Since you provide a lack of evidence to support your claims about
his inability to handle prime time What then makes you so special or credible
that the readers should just take your word for it?? What makes you qualified to
deem Dr. Paul, who has fought relentlessly to protect the constitution and stood
firmly without budging on his values (that also represent the values this
country were founded on) for over THREE DECADES as unprepared or unelectable?
There IS NO candidate out there that could even come close to Ron Pauls
experience, knowledge, and squeaky clean voting record. I know this because of
something called RESEARCHsomething every American SHOULD DO before they vote
instead of swallowing this vomit they call news.
I have noticed something about Ron Paul. He doesn't like Israel as much as most
other politicians. Whenever he says something that is a little out of
mainstream, big Israel supporters, like Michael Medeved, and Mark Paredes, will
criticize him as being out of the mainstream, not ready for prime time, etc.It leaves me wondering, are these political hits that are being made
against him because he doesn't support Israel. Basically, the price a
politician pays if he stands up for US interests over those of Israel?In terms of the issue at hand, my view is that this guy was at war with the US
so I think that it is justified, but I respect Ron Paul for making the stand
that he did. It shows integrity and that he is a free thinker.
*'U.S. Military deaths in Iraq war at 4,473 - AP - Published by the DSNews -
08/02/2011 Bottom line, I agree that we should leave Iraq and
Afgahnistan. *'Last U.S. combat brigade leaves Iraq' - By Rebecca
Santana - AP - Published by DSNews - 08/19/10 'Seven years and five
months after the U.S.-led invasion, the last American combat brigade was leaving
Iraq, well ahead of President Barack Obama's Aug. 31 deadline for ending U.S.
combat operations there.' *'Obama likely to cut 10K troops from
Afghanistan' - By Robert Burns - AP - 6/21/11*'Obama address:
Withdrawing surge troops by 2012' - By Julie Pace - AP - Published by DSNews -
06/22/11 And Obama has done that... AND given the order
to kill Osama Bin Laden and now, Al-Awlaki. Strange that the same
supporters of George W. Bush to INVADE Iraq and Afghanistan... now
criticize Obama for doing what George W. Bush, failed to accomplish in 8 years.
Story: "For the second time this year, Americans can celebrate..."That's the problem. Killing terrorists or enemy combatants is necessary.
But there is nothing to "celebrate". One of the foundation of our
European civilization is some elementary respect for death, even the death of a
sworn enemy. Who thinks otherwise, belongs to the realm of savagery, dancing on
graves. Shame on you, Mr. Paredes!
VST - no, they were not denied their constitutional rights because there was a
declared state of war: declared by Congress as required by the Constitution, not
just started by a President without following the law. That's what Ron Paul is
saying - if we're to be a nation of laws, then perhaps we should follow at least
the major ones.
Torture, don't torture, does it really matter? These terrorists have thrown the
rulebooks out the window. This is what many people don't understand.
It's the way Muslim extremists have been raised and indoctrinated. We are the
infidel, the eternal enemy, and the greatest thing a jihadi can do in life is to
kill us. They can't be reasoned with, diplomacy doesn't work. They would gladly
exterminate every single one of us if they could, it's literally kill or be
killed. To stop them you have to play their game, go anywhere and do anything in
order to win. That is the measure of depravity we are facing.We look
in our history books and see that the Japanese held the same attitude in WWII.
Every man, woman and child was willing to fight to the death in order to achieve
their objective. That's why we firebombed Tokyo, that's why we nuked Hiroshima
and Nagasaki. The only way to end this is to make them understand that we will
exterminate their entire civilization in order to ensure the survival of our
Wow...really juvenile article. It doesn't take any intellectual honesty to
support the illegal but popular killing of an American citizen. It takes a
statesman to protect our right to due process in the face of popular opposition.
Ron Paul should be lauded for this principled stand in the same way that John
Adams is remembered favorably for his defense of the British soldiers after the
Boston Massacre.By the way, journalists report facts. You have taken
the liberty of attributing to Dr. Paul opinions that he "probably"
holds or actions he would "most likely" take. In my opinion, that's
the very definition of yellow journalism.Thumbs down.
@KM: Because it's defined as torture, and the US is against torture, that's
why. And there is absolutely no data - even though Cheney said it worked - to
prove that the practice provided any more intelligence than nontorture tactics.
In fact, there are high-up interrogators who have publicly declared that their
efforts through nontorture means provided much more meaningful intelligence than
that obtained through waterboarding. With that said, do you disagree with Obama
killing these folks or not?
Apparently if you do not feel the way the writer does, you are not a thinker and
are not ready for "prime time." My question: Has Al-Awlaki actually
killed anyone, or merely encourged killing? Should Palin have been executed for
the possible encouragement of people in America using force against our own
administration? Get real, Mr. Opinion!With that said, I have no
problem with what happened. He may have been American-born, but was not really
an American, in my opinion!
Why would Obama be against pouring a little water on a terrorists face, but OK
with actually killing the terrorist and everyone else around him? I guess
killing is not as brutal as water on the face?
Ron Paul is not wrong about this and is actually just saying that doing things
like this are against America's laws of due process because . It's true and it
makes sense. Maybe we should stay at war for 10 more years and waste trillions
more on an un-winnable mission? Seems to be what you want. Oh and by the way,
this is not about religious differences, it's about occupation. Please America...THINK!
More inch-deep analysis for another media advocate for never ending war.
Dear Sir,It saddens me to see you do not understand your own
constitutional protections and are freely willing to give them away to another
person.The right of due process is in place to protect you the
innocent civilian from unwanted government intrusion. Not to protect traitors.
But the law has to be applied evenly.Let's say someone powerful in
the government suspects your father of doing some 'things' to children. Using
your own logic, the state can declare him a bad man without proof and can now
take unilateral action to remove him from society. Without habeas corpus, due
process, etc.You're actually supporting and backing the positions of
Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro. I implore you to educate yourself.You
also have a responsibility as a 'journalist' to report news in a truthful light.