Comments about ‘New democratic caucus targets LDS faithful’

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Published: Saturday, Oct. 1 2011 3:41 p.m. MDT

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The Rock
Federal Way, WA

@ Christy Beaverton OR

"Nobody is pro-abortion."

Your ignorance is showing.

"Four Republican presidents have presided over the nation during that time. Not one of them made it their mission to undo Roe V. Wade. "

Republican Presidents don't waste their time trying to start a fight they know they cannot win.

@ One Old Man Ogden UT

"Apparently no one here has noticed that the LDS position on abortion is almost identical to that of the Democratic Party. The Party supports abortion only in cases of incest, rape, or to save the mother's life. So does the church."

True but the Democrats also support abortion in almost every other case, including partial birth abortion.

@ Truthseeker

How do you deal with This passage:

D&C 42:42 Thou shalt not be idle; for he that is idle shall not eat the bread nor wear the garments of the laborer.

All the Democrat social programs violate this principle.

The Rock
Federal Way, WA

I know a young man who served a mission in Europe. They were baptizing a communist and one missionary said; "I didn't know that we baptized communists?"

The mission president heard this and said; "Well we baptize Democrats."

That mission president was later called into the quorums of the Seventy.

Good luck finding a current General Authority that is a Liberal.

The Rock
Federal Way, WA

@ Cowboy Joe

Yes, President Faust was a Democrat and so was my Mother, but she repented and I suspect that it had been decades since President Faust voted Democrat! The Democrat party has changed big time.

@ Truthseeker

"Democrats believe in self reliance too and are emphasizing job creation. "
Surely you jest. They have eyes and cannot see...

Wastintime
Los Angeles, CA

Pres McKay and Pres Benson misspoke. Dallin Oaks is correct:

"Few concepts have more potential to mislead us than the idea that choice or agency is an ultimate goal. For Latter-day Saints, this potential confusion is partly a product of the fact that moral agency--the right to choose--is a fundamental condition of mortal life. Without this precious gift of God, the purpose of mortal life could not be realized. To secure our agency in mortality we fought a mighty contest the book of Revelation calls a "war in heaven." This premortal contest ended....

But our war to secure agency was won. The test in this postwar mortal estate is not to secure choice but to use it--to choose good instead of evil so that we can achieve our eternal goals. In mortality, choice is a method, not a goal.

... If that silly reasoning were valid, then the Lord, who gave us our agency, took it away when he gave the Ten Commandments...It will not do to pretend that our agency has been taken away when we are not free to exercise it without unwelcome consequences."
(Weightier Matters 1999)

MormonDem
Provo, UT

The Rock: you need to education yourself a little more. Elder Marlin K. Jensen was sent by the First Presidency in 1998 to sit for an interview in which he described his own political alignment, as a Democrat, and to describe the desire of the Brethren to see more political balance in Utah and among the Church. Elder Jensen has also been the Church's spokesperson for several years on the immigration issue--an issue on which the Utah GOP has rebelled outright against the Church's position. Elder Steven E. Snow, a member of the Presidency of the Seventy, was an attorney and outspoken environmental activist in Southern Utah before being called as a General Authority. Elder Lowell M. Snow, who was just released from the Second Quorum of the Seventy yesterday, is also a Democrat. There are other examples of people of various political persuasions at all levels of Church leadership.

I am a proud Democrat and a proud Mormon. I do not think that all Mormons should be Democrats, but I do think that more political balance would benefit the state, the Church, and both parties.

MormonDem
Provo, UT

Pres. Obama has pushed for greater postwar educational and medical support for veterans. Are you going to tell soldiers returning from battle "Tough luck about your leg, but pay for your medical needs yourself. Be self-sufficient"?

Pres. Clinton was the driving force behind the welfare reforms of the 1990s that required greater self-sufficiency.

How many people on these boards are in the middle class today because of education paid for, in part, by Pell Grants and Federal Loans?

How many of the people on these boards are the children of fathers who got a foothold in the middle class after WWII because of the GI Bill?

How many people on these boards benefit from roads, bridges, trails, canals, watershed terraces, etc., built as part of FDR's WPA and CCC projects? (Hint: ALL OF YOU.)

These are all Democrat programs that promoted industry and hard work. You do a disservice to history and your country to claim that such programs were meant for "freeloaders."

If you'd shown up in So. Utah in the 1930s and called my grandpa and uncles "freeloaders" while they were digging CCC ditches you'd have been ridden out of town on a rail.

1Infidel
APO, AE

@furry,

You might want to re-think your salacious and uncouth claims regarding fascism - and go a bit deeper than your public school, or look foolish. Fascism and Communism are both left-wing ideals - nothing to do with uber conservativism

Dan Maloy
Enid, OK

If you are a faithful member of the LDS church and call yourself a Democrat, you obviously don't know what the official party platform is for the Democrat party, and by "Democrat party", I mean the true, officially stated goals of the party on a national level. Go look it up and see if those are the things Christ would condone.

I'll give you a hint: they most certainly are not.

Richard Allan Jenni
Ocean City, NJ

As a constitutional conservative, I'll just bite my rebel tongue- lest my good friends at Deseret News feel obliged (and rightly so) to disallow my comments today. However, let me ask a simple rhetorical question: "How's all that hope and change workin' out for ya?"

isrred
Logan, UT

So you want to be a conservative? Let me tell you something about your heritage.

When conservatives have had the choice between tax cuts for the upper 1 percent of Americans and the middle class, they have chosen the super rich.

When conservatives have had a choice between tax cuts for the super-rich and funding for the National Institutes of Health, which supports the development of cures for cancer, heart disease, and other serious illness, they have cut funding for the National Institutes of Health.

When conservatives had the choice between tax cuts for the rich and body armor for American troops dying in Iraq, they chose tax cuts.

Every time working people have asked for a raise in the minimum wage, conservatives have opposed it, saying that wealthy businesses can't afford it--even as they gave huge bonuses to their CEOs.

When scientists discovered that research on fetal tissue transplants and stem cells might help people with Alzheimer's disease or quadriplegia overcome their illnesses, conservatives blocked it, saying that God was against it. [continued]

isrred
Logan, UT

"When Congress proposed a national holiday honoring Dr. Martin Luther King, conservatives opposed it, calling him a communist on the floor of the United States Senate.

When people in wheelchairs, including World War II veterans who lost their limbs defending our nation, asked for accessible sidewalks and buildings, conservatives opposed it, saying it was too expensive.

When Franklin Roosevelt tried to create a safety net for senior citizens, conservatives opposed it, saying we couldn't afford it, and they have been trying to dismantle Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid ever since.

When Bill Clinton proposed a law that would allow any new mother to take three months of unpaid leave from her job without fear of getting fired for having a baby, conservatives opposed it, saying it would be too costly for businesses.

When half the people who were going bankrupt every year were doing so after catastrophic illness that wiped out their life savings, conservatives changed the law to make it impossible for them to file for bankruptcy, so that credit card companies could expand their profits.

So you want to be a conservative? That's your heritage. Stand tall."

Darrel
Eagle Mountain, UT

@Dan Maloy,

I just looked at the Democratic party website. I cannot find anythig on their site that would be against the Church's stance. Maybe you can enlighten me, and maybe provide a source?

BASavage
Orem, UT

Wow, what can I say? First off the Democratic party starting in the 1960's began to go against most any Christian church teachings. I am Rebublican because I am LDS. I won't mention any names here but one active LDS Utahn changed from Republican to Democrat to run for a legislative seat and now is an elected official as a Republican. When I asked him why he backed off his legislative bid he told me that he a number of moral conservative Democrats in this state told him that they were ostracized by state party leadership and that the national party forces many things upon them. Those things such as abortion, homosexual issues, forced charity among others.

If the Democrats want more LDS and more Christians in their ranks they should remove abortion on demand out of their party platform, support for illegal aliens to be given the right to vote. End their ravenous spending for forced charity. Change their economic policies and stop supporting socialists for president. The list goes on and on. As many former LDS Democrats have said to me "I didn't leave the Democratic party. The Democratic party left me".

Instereo
Eureka, UT

There is a big difference between supporting abortion and supporting choice and the law of the land. There is a big difference in between supporting unions vs. supporting huge corporations. These are just a couple of issues where I believe Democrats are on the right side. Other areas are immigration, debt reduction, social security, medicare, the enviornment, global warming, and public transportation. Yes there is a big difference between supportting the middle class and helping the poor vs. policies that support and favor the rich.

BASavage
Orem, UT

Actually the Democratic Party Platform is that abortion is to be on demand. No reasons, just that a woman wants to terminate her pregnancy for no other reason. The Church's official stance is abortion is only for rape, incest and the life of the mother and/or the child will not survive birth. This is to be done only upon careful consultation with their doctors and local Church leaders and personal prayer. Then and ONLY then does the Church sanction abortion.

I don't know where people get the notion that the offical Democratic Party's stance on abortion is just like the Church's. Perhaps its that here in Utah, but the DNC wants it available on demand.

btw, in 1995 when state attorney general Jan Grahm (a Democrat and Mormon by her own admission) was asked by the Govenors office to defend a new law crimminalizing abortions other for the above mentioned reason. She couldn't citing that it was separation of Church and State because the law was exactly like the Church's stance. My source? An assistant attorney general.

If Democrats want to get more LDS and more Christians to join their ranks, the party needs to change.

sashabill
Morgan Hill, CA

A political party is no more sacrosanct than the people who make it up. As a Mormon and a Republican I have never presumed to tell anyone in the church which party they must favor. It is not my place to do so.

Meanwhile, if you think being a Mormon Democrat is hard, try being a Unitarian Republican.

ksampow
Farr West, Utah

@one old man: those remarks by local church members that you mentioned were clearly out of line. The LDS church is non-partisan. I hope you realize that faults of other members should not affect your own decisions about God and religion. We are all human and have flaws. I would hope those members who were out of line would apologize to you, but don't let their flaws keep you away from the Church of Jesus Christ. The same problems occured in Biblical times. A good portion of the New Testament contains words from the Savior seking to correct errors among his fellow Jews and then later the Apostles correcting errors among the Christians.

I M LDS 2
Provo, UT

I cannot find a current official statement on abortion for either the DNC or the RNC,

Abortion is apparently not an issue in this election, locally or nationally.

Why would a non-issue be a reason for any LDS person to choose to register R rather than D, or vice versa?

As a recovering libertarian and now conservative, I don't understand why other LDS conservatives want more government power invading individual lives and liberties. Parents make decisions that affect the lives of their children all the time, including the decision to create life in the first place, decisions to circumcise or not, to pierce ears or not, to spanking or not, and other decisions I don't agree with. That doesn't give us the right to use the force of law to force others to have or raise children OUR way.

I am fine with Roe vs Wade, and none of the major parties seem interested in changing it.

I see no reason why good LDS cannot be good Democrats, and frankly, with the nonsense that my Utah GOP has pulled recently, I have considered switching parties. Corruption is sneaking into our GOP.

ksampow
Farr West, Utah

It is wrong to associate one political party or another with the LDS Church. The Church is nonpartisan. But we should all carefully and prayerfully consider which candidates, parties, and platforms we should support. The Church does make official statements on some issues, such as abortion and gay marriage (opposing the position of many Democrats) and on immigration (opposing the position of many Republicans). And there is the Proclamation on the Family which says: We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

MormonDem
Provo, UT

It comes down to this, folks: if you think your neighbor is unworthy of being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because his political position is different from yours--whatever that position may be--then YOU are the one who isn't being a good Mormon!

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