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Comments about ‘New democratic caucus targets LDS faithful’

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Published: Saturday, Oct. 1 2011 3:41 p.m. MDT

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sandee
MELFA, VA

Well, if your current presidential choice speaks for your party, then no thank you!!!

FDRfan
safety dictates, ID

First on the agenda to reclaim the Democratic from the left is to reauthorize the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom. I hope this organization leads out in this effort.

Ralph West Jordan
Taylorsville, UT

After reading a vast number of the posts my reasons for leaving the Republican party after 50 years of voting Republican is validated once again! What is sadly amusing is that the radical right wing thinking that is prevelant in the party now is the very type of thinking that will not allow a moderate, practical and electable candidate to get the nomination in 2012, thus ensureing four more years for Obama! Again the main stream Republican party heads realize this but are helpless to stop the radical swing. The Obama camp is salivating, realizing the Southern Evangelical block will not allow Romney or Huntsman to become the candidate, leaving Perry or who ever.

RedneckLefty
St. George, UT

How can any Utah Republicans on this board have the AUDACITY to say democrats can't be good Mormons because of this or that issue, when just this year, at the Utah State Republican Convention, the Utah GOP voted overwhelmingly to repeal the immigration plan that the Church came out in support of, repeatedly? The Church's position on HB 116 could not have been clearer, and yet the GOP completely and forcefully rejected it.

You really think the GOP has a monopoly on Mormon-friendly positions?

In Utah, it seems to be quite the opposite: if there's ever a question as to whether to follow the Brethren or the GOP, Utahns seem to pick the GOP.

Furry1993
Clearfield, UT

to sandee | 12:23 p.m. Oct. 2, 2011
MELFA, VA
Well, if your current presidential choice speaks for your party, then no thank you!!!

-----------------------

Well if the just-prior president, and the far right wing extremists running for president, speak for the Republicans then a HUGE no thank you.

For the reccord, my husband and I are registered Republican. We did not not register as Republicans because we believe in the extremism and signs of fascism that the party is espousing now. We registered as Republicans to try to be part of the numbers necessary to take the party back from the far right extremist radicals who hijacked it to the far right fringes in the 1990s. As Senator Barry Goldwater ("Mr. Conservative" -- the man who defined conservatism) once said to the far right wing radicals: "Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you've hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have." He was right. Sadly, true conservatives are now called RINOs, and the true RINOs (the ones who inhabit the far right fringes) mis-identify themselves as conservatives. "Conservative" is another word that is being misdefined politically. Sad.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

Gallups survey found that 7% of LDS members are liberal, 1% very liberal. It also found that 79% of LDS members in the US are active and 20% of inactive LDS members are liberal. Run those numbers and you get that half of LDS liberals are inactive. There is definitely some force making LDS liberals feel ostracized in their own churches. The church may be neutral but it's members sure aren't. I've been told I needed to repent over political views by almost half a dozen different people (and in person, this isn't just online) or that I need to see the bishop, or that it'd be better if I were following the prophet (I don't remember when President Monson took a position against obamacare).

@Charles
the greater outdoors, UT

----- This breaks no rules. Post it!

@Wastingtime: Nothing you posted says that things political can't be discussed at church. Many political positions overlap with gospel principles and doctrine. If something is deemed a political position we are supposed to stand up and say "Nope, we can't talk about that topic. Someone might be offended and it's political so it's not discussed in church!"?

Sorry, but I'll stick with the brethren who speak out on many topics that are deemed politics. Did you read the 1966 addresses by Pres McKay and Pres Benson in Conference FROM THE PULPIT?

Ever read any talks by Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and others that are political in nature in church and at conference?

Political neutrality from the church means that they won't endorse a candidate or political party. Pretty simple to understand the difference.

@RedneckLefty: did you hear Pres Uchtdorf say people should be FORCED through the government to help the poor? Nope. In fact you heard the contrary. It's a choice. It's our responsibility but there is no force.

Why you on the Left can't understand the difference is astounding. You claim choice for abortion but nothing else.

RedneckLefty
St. George, UT

@Charles: I didn't hear Pres. Uchtdorf say anything at all about politics or tax policy.

Wastintime
Los Angeles, CA

@Charles
Joseph Smith on egalitarianism,

"The city (Nauvoo)was meant to be not just a gathering place but an ideal society. One Scripture describes it this way: "And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them." It was to be a unified, egalitarian, righteous society.

To deal with the poor, everyone who came to the city was to consecrate everything - all of their property - to the bishop of the church, who in return would deed back to them properties sufficient for their needs. It was an equalization program.

In fact, the word "equal" has a fairly strong place in Joseph Smith's revelations. For example: "That you may be equal in the bonds of heavenly things, yea, and earthly things also, for the obtaining of heavenly things. For if you are not equal in earthly things ye cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things." At another point, he made the drastic statement that inequality was a sign that the whole world lay in sin. These Cities of Zion were to create unified, egalitarian societies and eventually fill up the world."
(Richard Bushman)

SLMG
Murtoa Australia, Victoria

To be told that you can only be a good member of the LDS church if you are a Republican is pure rubbish. No member of the church should have to choose a political party based on what Republicans have to say. Thank goodness this nonsense is mostly only alive and well in Utah. The rest of us in other states and countries believe what the Presidency of the church tells us that the church is bipartisan and our free agency is still alive and well even in how we choose to vote. My LDS parents were some of the most conservative people you would ever meet, they would never vote for a Rpublican, they considered the party the party of the Rich man with out any consideration for the middle class. I am an independent voter not to be sucked in by the propaganda of either party. Conservative on some issues and liberal on others. And, never listen to the political commentators on either side, I research the issues for myself.

Griz
Salt Lake City, UT

@Christy
What do unions have to do with single moms on welfare?

As for abortions being legal for 40 yrs, do you think that makes it right? For generations discrimination based on gender, race and religion was legal too. Based on your stated opinion you must have believed it was okay because it was legal.

In the 40 yrs of Roe v Wade, over 40 million American lives have been snuffed out because of "choice" with no regard to their "choice". 40 million lives. That's more than the combined population of Canada and Australia. That's many times more lives than were lost in every war or battle that our country has been involved in.

Who knows if one of those aborted people would have grown up to find a vaccine for Breast and Cervical Cancer or HIV, been a great humanitarian, or and inspiring inventor, writer or artist.

1aggie
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

@Charles
It's amusing that you need to go back nearly 50 years to find an example to support your thesis. Could it be perhaps that times have changed and we are a global church now, mistakes were made in the past (I have never heard a prophet proclaim himself perfect) or whatever, but nothing makes the spirit go "poof" away quicker than when somebody makes a political comment in a meeting, and the Brotheren do not want this. PS - Blacks have the priesthood now.

Wastintime
Los Angeles, CA

@Charles
#1 What was the context of McKay and Benson's comments? They were clearly referring to Communist countries at the time.
From Dallin H. Oaks:
"In addition to the cleansing effect of the Atonement, God has given us agencythe power to choose between good (the path of life) and evil (the path of spiritual death and destruction [see 2 Ne. 2:27; Moses 4:3]). Although the conditions of mortality can limit our FREEDOM (such as by restricting our mobility or our power to act on certain options), when we have reached the age or condition of accountability (see Moro. 8:512; D&C 68:27; D&C 101:78) NO MORTAL or spiritual power can deprive us of our AGENCY."

#2 The Church handbook says when deciding what welfare assistance to give, the Bishop determines whether members are receiving assistance from govt. or other sources. Bishops should be careful not to duplicate welfare assistance.

#3 Teaching lessons about self-reliance and charity are entirely appropriate at church. But I've yet to see a church manual that teaches govt. social safety programs are evil.

#4 Democrats believe in self-reliance AND helping others through charity AND govt.

SLMG
Murtoa Australia, Victoria

I see red politics is alive and well in Utah, You are either with us or against us and neither the twain shall meet.

Utahans must be so happy to have the tea party to back them and their ideals up.

djk
blue springs, MO

saddens me to see our government in such a turmoil.
we all have our free agency. i just do not understand how members of the LDS faith can be democrat with what the democrat party stands for.
the proof is in our president right now.
in my local paper there is a small article about the temples announced on saturday. right next to that article 'obama wants only military leadership to support gay rights and gay military'. this is sad and scary.
satan is glossing over the truth and confusing many in this world.
for me and my home we will serve the Lord. Live as we need to live to reach the celestial kingdom.
i will vote for whom i feel is right for the position. yes, i have already made up my mind. our country NEEDS stronger family focused leadership.

the truth
Holladay, UT

RE: Wastintime

"And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them."

NOTHING "egalitarian" there.

people aren't equal,

they're not equal in physically, spiritally, mentally, in work ethic, or any kind of ethic, or morally,

not in education or knowledge,

they're not equal in talents, skills, and abilities,

and while there may be no poor, it DOESN'T say there are not any rich.

children are not equal to the parent.

The LDS believe strongly in self reliance, hard work, personal charity, freedom to prosper and pursue ones own happiness,

setting aside the moral arguments,

This is why the socialist democratic party will never have much success among the LDS,

they don't believe in government compelled equality, government based charity, big government control of everyone and everything, nor dependence on big governement for almost anything and everything.

The LDS church believe in teaching people correct principles and letting the people govern themselves,

this is something the left's strongly against,

the left believes the people CAN'T govern themselves, "elites" should decide what is best for everyone, no values can be taught, truth is relative!

lds4gaymarriage
Salt Lake City, UT

Wastintime
From Dallin H. Oaks:
"In addition to the cleansing effect of the Atonement, God has given us agencythe power to choose between good (the path of life) and evil (the path of spiritual death and destruction [see 2 Ne. 2:27; Moses 4:3]). Although the conditions of mortality can limit our FREEDOM (such as by restricting our mobility or our power to act on certain options), when we have reached the age or condition of accountability (see Moro. 8:512; D&C 68:27; D&C 101:78) NO MORTAL or spiritual power can deprive us of our AGENCY."

LDS4
Sorry, but Agency CAN be taken away. Consider the following (I have SEVERAL others, but space is limitted) -

"To deprive an intelligent human being of his free agency is to commit the crime of the ages. . . . So fundamental in man's eternal progress is his inherent right to choose, that the Lord would defend it even at the price of war." (David O. McKay, General Conference, 1942)

"Each of these systems (Communism and Fascism) destroys liberty, wipes out free institutions, blots out free agency, ."(MESSAGE OF THE FIRST PRESIDENCY, October 1942)

Christy
Beaverton, OR

And what does the Republican Party stand for?

Anti-civil rights
Anti-immigration
Anti-choice
Anti-education
Anti-arts
Anti-environment
Anti-union
Anti-Muslim, Mexican, Black, Gay
Anti-child

Pro-Christian
Pro-white
Pro-rich
Pro-corporation
Pro-war
Pro-drilling
Pro-deregulation
Pro-torture
Pro-fetus

Now watch me set my broad brush down.

Your turn.

whatnext
Clearfield, Utah

Oatmeal,

I agree with alot of what you said about a womens choice, but I do also think when a women is married it know longer becomes the choice of the women alone. It becomes a decision the husband and wife should consider and decide together with direction from Heavenly Father. After all each of us are Heavenly Fathers children and that includes those little ones not yet born.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@SLMG

Maybe Australia is far enough away. My problems with members telling me to repent over my views on gay marriage, abortion (different person), just straight up being a democrat (a third person) were all cases at Penn state of people telling me to repent over some political view.

In Maryland I had an institute teacher tell me that the Iraq war was a holy war of God's against Islam and that if we didn't write letters to Congress urging them to pass the "marriage amendment" then we'd be disobeying the prophet. That was part of why I stopped going to institute.

So it's not just Utah (though all those people who said such things to me may have been utah transplants...).

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