Comments about ‘New democratic caucus targets LDS faithful’

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Published: Saturday, Oct. 1 2011 3:41 p.m. MDT

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Fender Bender
Saint George, UT

The current two party system is like going to the grocery store, and getting a choice to buy grocery cart A or grocery cart B, both of which have already been filled for you. You may like some items in both cart A and cart B, but you may detest others. You may like the avocados in cart A, but if you buy cart A, you also get peanut butter. The two party system says if you like avocados, then you must also like peanut butter.

None of us would stand for grocery stores limiting our choices this way, but for some reason a lot of us have become comfortable with the same limits in politics. If I choose political party A, then my stance on foreign policy, gun rights, gay marriage, the death penalty, abortion, is chosen for me, even none of these issues are related to each other.

This is why I could never throw my support behind either party in a two party system. The system itself is what limits your freedom to choose.

gnrl39
South Jordan, UT

It doesn't take a genius to realize that the more conservative leaning of most members of the Church would be more in line with the republicans.
Quit whining democrats and know that your platform just doesn't cut it with most mormons.

RedneckLefty
St. George, UT

There have been, and there are currently, many members of the Church leadership who are democrats.

The Church has repeatedly made it clear that faithful members of the Church come from across the political spectrum. (See "The Mormon Ethic of Civility" on the Church's website.) The Brethren have repeatedly said that the Church has--and NEEDS--a variety of political positions among its membership.

Some people here have said "I don't see how you can be Mormon and a democrat."

I don't see how who can hold that position and be a good Mormon.

Cats
Somewhere in Time, UT

If Mormons don't want to be Democrats, the Democrats have no one to blame but themselves. They have made it clear for MANY years that if you are pro-life, if you are for traditional family values, etc., you are NOT welcome in their party. There were many Mormons who came from labor backgrounds and might have been Democrats, but they were driven out by the Democrat Party.

Now the Democrats have moved so far to the left that I don't see how ANY committed member of the Church could be a Democrat. There are some who manage to rationalize it, but it is a BIG mass of rationalization. LDS people just can't support most of the values the Democrats espouse.

If anyone wants to read the new "Daughters of my Kingdom" which was just put out by the First Presidency, it is not difficult to discern that the Church is counseling us against principles supporting big government programs, etc. We are counciled to be self reliant and NOT to be involved with (Democrat supported)government programs that take away that self reliance.

Most members easily discern this. Some, unfortunately, still don't get it.

Thomas Paine
South Jordan, UT

The DNC promotes helping our fellow being. They want to cloth the naked, feed the poor and destitute, and help the needy. They also want to respect the agency of people even if some may use it for immorality.

It's true that the GOP focuses on self-reliance; I hear they want to teach a man to fish instead of giving him a fish, but in reality the GOP continues to oppose giving the poor the tools to rise above poverty.

Cats
Somewhere in Time, UT

Dear @Charles: You are SO on target. Thanks for your comments.

ute alumni
Tengoku, UT

one old man
glad you are happy on Sunday afternoons.

Bono
American Fork, UT

I'm both a Mormon and a Democrat and want to clear something up -- Democrats do not believe in abortion. Nobody does. Many Democrats are pro-life. Other Democrats are Pro-Choice -- meaning that they believe a woman has a right to choose what she does with her body. Politics is not so simple that a person should or can believe in every last thing that the majority in their party believe in. I don't believe in abortion but I also don't believe that we or anyone else should legislate morality. I honestly struggle going to church because of the narrow mindedness of the fellow members of my ward. The Prophet has never said we should all be Republican, but I often feel at church as if I'm at a Hannity/Limbaugh rally. After George W. Bush was reelected I actually had someone in a lesson say she was thankful that we elected an honest, Christian man to be President. I seriously almost laughed out loud. I actually voted for Bush in that election, only because I felt he was the lesser of two evils. All I'm saying is wake up and open your mind.

Democrat
Provo, UT

Re SolutionsNotStones: I think the people joining the Democratic Party and taking the course you described usually are people living in Utah with a disposition toward being a rebel. But remember, there are a lot of us life-long Democrats here in Utah who come from a long Democratic tradition. In my growing up years in Utah County, we had at various times a legislator, state senator and Congressman who were all Democrats. They were all super active Mormons and it never occured to them or me that there was anything wierd about that. I don't even need to mention Heber J. Grant, James E. Faust or Marlin K. Jensen (all top notch Democrats and top notch Mormons).

I also believe one can be a good Republican and Mormon and steer away from arguments I hear often from liberals that God somehow favors liberal causes. Anytime someone tries to sell a product or get you to vote a certain way because "the Church" is for it, I say run!

Democrat
Provo, UT

To all those who keep mentioning abortion: the Utah County Democratic Party has had a pro-life platform for many, many years. Do people actually know anything about their local parties and candidates? I have voted for many Republicans over the years but I wonder if my GOP neighbors are giving my party's candidates the same attention I am giving theirs. It seems that New Jersey and Massachussetts (Christie, Romney, Brown) give GOP candidates more chances than Utah and Idaho give Democrats.

Our troops and forbears fought for our right to vote. That right doesn't mean much if we don't study the candidates.

RedneckLefty
St. George, UT

Thomas Paine: you're right. The GOP says "Teach a man to fish." Then they privatize all the fishing holes. They say "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" to people who don't have any boots.

Pres. Uchtdorf's talk last night was not partisan in the least: it laid out the principle of self-reliance, but also had extremely strong words for those who refuse to help the poor. In a recent conference Pres. Uchtdorf also said "It is unworthy of us as Christians to blame those who suffer for their suffering."

The GOP in Utah uses abortion as a wedge issue to fleece Utahns. The GOP leader of the senate gets busted for DUI? All they have to say to retain power is "abortion!" The GOP leader of the house gets busted for hottubbing nude with a minor? All they have to say to retain power is "abortion!" The governor looks the other way while $13m is given away to a losing bidder for a contract? "Abortion!"

Let me ask you this: when was the last time abortion law in Utah changed? How long will you cling to this issue while the GOP rifles through your pockets, Utah?

mightymite
DRAPER, UT

Leave religion out of this. In the state of utah it has already caused a lot of damage. Don't mormons understand boundries?

A1994
Centerville, UT

@mightymite

"Don't mormons understand boundries?"

Yeah, that's why were even in Utah. Learn your history. Having said that, a good member of the church will shun both political parties...the way George Washington warned us to.

TA1
Alexandria, VA

I think that all of the rhetoric here will be of little consequence when we stand before the Judgment Bar and are asked the question - well how did you treat your neighbor (regardless of whether they were gay or not), (whether they supported abortion or not), (whether they were Democrats or not), and I suspect that many of us will be found wanting.

Wildcat
O-town, UT

@Christy, it's always a pleasure to read your comments. They are well thought out, fact-based, and not nonsensical angry rantings like some on these postings. I agree no one is pro-abortion. Do we really want government telling a woman what to do with her body: delivering the baby of a rapist or carrying an incestuous child? Pro-choice just puts the choice to the woman and her body. The good thing about the Democratic Party is that there are no purity tests like the Tea Party. You can have the LDS view of abortion and be in the party without threat of reprisal or dismissal.

@one old man: I feel your pain. I am a liberal LDS, and I had a few church meetings where mindless hate and recycling of Limbaugh would turn up. I left those meetings, too. Then I thought to myself, this religion deserves better. I now make it a point to speak up and counter this mindless recycling of hate and to tell them it might be their point-of-view, but not that of the first presidency. The LDS need good people like you--come back please, and be heard.

the truth
Holladay, UT

Christy Wrote:

"Nobody is pro-abortion. 'Supporting choice' is exactly, precisely what this Democrat, and many others I know, are for"

But what is the choice?

Abortion!

So you MUST support abortion, you must be PRO-abortion.

Todays democratic party is nothing like old party, or are they?

It was southern democrats that supported slavery,

the ultimate dream and ends of the progressive demcratic party is complete BIG government control of entire poeples.

It was a demcratic president that put indians on resevations.

It democratic policy of manifest destiney that lead to western expansion and war with mexico,

It was democrat persident that got into WW1, put germans into camps, yused force goverment to arrest hundreds of newspapermen and shut down newpapers, REsegregated the army.

It was anther democrat president, the interned japanese, took big government control of companies, jailed people if they didn't adhere to his programs like the blue eagle, caused the depression to becomethe great de[pression,

a democrat president used the atomic bomb,

democrats support BIG government,

it is a democrats now that support or looktheother way of current union greedbased thuggery and misbehaviors

current platforms, values and activities of demcrats opposes LDS teachings.

Wastintime
Los Angeles, CA

Re@Charles
From the LDS Church restatement on political NEUTRALITY:

"The Elected officials who are Latter-day Saints make their own decisions and may not necessarily be in agreement with one another or even with a publicly stated Church position. While the Church may communicate its views to them, as it may to any other elected official, it recognizes that these officials still must make their own choices based on their best judgment and with consideration of the constituencies whom they were elected to represent."

"Request candidates for office not to imply that their candidacy or platforms are endorsed by the Church."

"General Authorities and general officers of the Church and their spouses and other ecclesiastical leaders serving full-time should not personally participate in political campaigns, including promoting candidates, fundraising, speaking in behalf of or otherwise endorsing candidates, and making financial contributions."

It is very clear what the Church position is on political neutrality. It is a worldwide church, operating among very diverse people and countries. Bringing political discussions into Church is a sure way to exclude the presence of the Spirit. You are dead wrong on this issue.

JP71
Ogden, UT

I work in a place that is 100% LDS (I am LDS) and almost all are Republicans. I have what would be considered to be liberal views, but I feel they are aligned with LDS doctrine. I am very careful not talk about my political views because I feel that my progression in my job would be at risk and I would be branded a Liberal. So, I am a closet independent/liberal. Its unfortunate that it has to be this way.

Wildcat
O-town, UT

I don't see why some people insist on getting fired up when the State Democratic Party seeks to get more LDS to consider joining their party or at least voting Democratic.

The First Presidency issues a political neutrality statement before every election and encourages participation in government matters in a respectful way. Those who take it upon themselves to "steady the Arc" from the church leaders by pushing any other idea than this do a great disservice to the LDS Faith.

I am liberal/progressive because of my faith, but I don't make any claims that a conservative can't be a good LDS. There are some things about the Republican Party I admire, but it has become so far right and the party of Wall Street (the money changers of old) that I only support a few of the Republican candidates now.

It is alright to have whatever political ideology you want, but when it is used to try and push that anyone is less of a person, less of a church member, less deserving of blessings, etc., it becomes divisive vitriol that should not be associated with the church. Every member should stand up against such nonsense.

NeilT
Clearfield, UT

I consider myself conservative and I belong to a labor union. Many on here misrepresent the Democratic party. I don't believe all Democrats want is big gov't and a welfare state. That is a broad generalization and I reject that. To many conservatives misrepresent self reliance. We have an obligation to help the poor and needy regardless of their circumstances or how they ended up in need. The main issue I have with the extremist's in the Republican party is they moralize to much and are way to judgemental of others. Petty partisan politics is unworthy of faithful LDS. Let people vote their conscience. I could care less how someone votes. Freedom to vote is is a great privilege. Has anyone noticed how voting percentages have dropped in Utah. I think extreme partisanship has a lot to do with it.

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