that would be suburban sprawl not urban sprawl. This is the result of everyone
thinking they need their .25 acres of land and a little white house with a
little white picket fence.
What is the objective of farming? Is it to preserve a legacy, support a
lifestyle or provide entertainment in a bucolic setting? How much government
money should we need to put into it? We want a cost effective, high protein
diet. Farming needs to be about producing those commodites, profitably. Today
that usually means economies of scale. Go big, or get out. And sprawl? Those are
People need a place to live. Their children grow up and need a place to live.
Then their grandchildren need a place to live as they become adults and have
families. Farming can be done almost anywhere but if you live in a growing
state, farming fairly close to a growing city, you might ought to look around
and relocate. A famous dairy farm in West Jordan did that a few years ago. And
I'm sure the sale of their land was greater than the price of where they
relocated. The cynics answer to a drop in demand for housing is a drop in
population. And no one wants that kind of war or uncurable disease to takwe
wholeasale numbers of lives.
@hutterite and toosmartforyou you do realize if you eat up all the
farm land with your suburban (its not urban) sprawl there will be no food right?
maybe it is time to think about urban density and dare I say not having so many
@ GeorgeFunny that someone from the Bronx (New York City) would want
to comment about sprawl when NYC is the largest city in the country. And
regarding the size of a family, let's just say that such an argument is always
made by someone who has already been born; sorta ironic, isn't it?Come west sometime and discover the vast acerages and square miles that aren't
stuffed full of buildings and taxi cabs and maybe you'd see that the key to
producing quality farm land has to do with the availability of water more than
anything else.Relocating a farm, like the dairy farm from West
Jordan, is hardly eating up all the farm land. Even California, with their
millions of people, still has huge amounts of farming.
All my life I have been subjected to the crocodile tears of farmers as they go
about their phony program of false glorification of themselves. Statements like: "It speaks of getting down in the dirt, making a living
the hard way, but a way that is rewarded through bountiful harvests and a
feel-good tired at the end of the day", try to tell us there is something
wholesome and character building about getting dirty. Coal miners and factory
workers have it all over the farmer as far as getting dirty, and their harvest
is no less important to us. yet they are treated badly, chastised for their
efforts improve their lot. Farmers are businessmen, farming is a
business. Farmers deserve no more deification than any other businessmen. Farmers don't deserve to have working people taxpayers pay their share
of the cost of government. They don't deserve to hold land at low
taxes speculating on the price rise to make them a fortune. They
don't deserve to prey upon the unfortunates of other nations to obtain their
cheap labor. They don't deserve to have subsidies so they can
undercut other nations farmers. etc. etc. etc.
@toosmartforyou It is called Urban density. New York City has a population
of over 8.7 million people. the entire state of Utah has a population of 2.7
million. The entire state of Utah would fit on the island of Manhattan or an
area about the third of the size of the Salt Lake Valley. Think about the amount
of open space Utah would have if they embraced urban density over suburban
sprawl. I have been to Utah lived there for 30 years which is way the suburban
sprawl makes me sad. As to your statement about already being born that
argument, I would contend it is more tragic to bring a child into a world that
already strains to meet the needs of the people that inhabit it.
@ hutterite and toosmartforyouMoving a dairy is one thing, moving a
produce farm is another. You can pack a lot of cows on small acreage and still
give them imported feed, but good productive land to grow that feed or vegetable
crops, with good water for irrigation, especially in Utah is hard to come by.
Increased fuel and transportation costs means less profits, and more farmers
going out of business every year. It also means your food costs will go up and
more will be imported from foreign countries with less regulations. Americans
are spoiled with the most abundant food supply, that is the cheapest and safest
on this planet. You can moan and groan all you want about farmers bragging on
the hard work they do, and their lifestyle, but there is no other group that
takes the physical, mental, emotional and financial risks than farmers. I am
surprised at the arrogance and ignorance of some people posting here. Without
farmers, there is no food. Without food, there is no you and me.
For all of those who have commented on this please tell the rest of us if you
ever had farmed or lived on a farm to even be qualified to talk about the
lifestyle of the farmer and what they go through to provide for their family. As
to the comment that you can farm anywhere no you can't. Most of these farms
have been here through many generations they don't want to move nor should they
if they don't want.the problem is that most of us are very selfish
and expect the rest of the world to change to meet our demands.
red rocks | 12:55 p.m.Knowing anything about what you are talking
about is not a rule that is enforced, in the voices section of this paper,
either by the posters or most of the editorial writers.We moved to
town when I was 7, and beyond that I only worked at farm labor a few times. I
don't remember any particular exhilaration except being very tired and believe
me. feeling very tired is not good. If God says I have to work that very hard
for my daily bread, I just may choose the other place. All of us are
selfish, it probably comes from the natural survival instinct that is in all
life. However, I also believe that farmers are among the most selfish. I have
never seen a "No Trespassing" sign in a residential neighbor hood, but
they were the scourge of life when I was young and wanted to fish or hunt and
needed access. Farmers are people. Some good and some bad.
But all farmers who earn their daily bread by farming are businessmen. And my
mission in life is to bring ordinary working people up to their joy.
We don't want to "embrace" the urban density, and that's why we live
in Utah. And my .26 acre has been put to work, producing apples, cherries,
plums, strawberries, pears and grapes.Urban sprawl at its best!
Yes, farmers are businessmen, they have to be in order to survive. I grow
vegetables, a very high risk type of farming. We do it because we love it, it's
in our blood, and it's a family thing. We try to make the most money we can,
just like everyone who works does. Good growers only makes a decent profit 2 -
3 years out of 5. I hire high school and college kids all the time to help me
weed, hoe, spray, scout, irrigate and harvest. It's not pleasant work, but
every single one (and I mean that sincerely) has told me that this job has
taught them a lot about work ethics and responsibility. They actually take
pride in seeing crops go from seedlings to maturity and harvest. Parents ask me
all the time if their children can work for me because they want them to
"learn how to work"! None of those kids will go into farming, but the
lessons they learned will stick with them. Many growers tell me it would be
easier for to take our money to Vegas and lose it gambling than lose it farming,
but it is our way of life.
I've read the comments so far and see there are some reasonable thoughts on both
sides. This is not an either/or situation, although many would like to create
that dichotomy. If we were thoughtful about this we would look at the far
ranging impact of the options before us. At one time in our country we valued
large lots and big freeways. For awhile that worked OK, but then came energy
limitations, water limitations, excessive drive times, and limited green space,
all of which impact our quality of living. Having grown up in rural New Mexico,
but also having lived in large cities both in the US and Europe, and having
visited humongous cities of China, Africa, and the Middle East, there are
definitely better and poorer ways to create a beneficial quality of life. We
are fortunate in Utah to still have the resources and the options to grow in
delightful ways, but we should learn from the abuses of the past. One quick
recommendation is to drive down State Street in Orem and determine if you like
what you see. As mutual stewards of the land may we choose to bless future
@Gruff Gummi That is actually a reasonable use of the land gruff its
called farming and once again farm land is not urban and neither is suburban
sprawl. Look the terms up they do not mean what you seem to think.
Ok. Yes, more than most of you, I know what food production looks like. Yes, I
grew up on a mixed farm. Cows, canola, wheat, hay, chickens, sheep. And what I
see is that 'lifestyle' or 'heritage' farming doesn't make sense anymore. We're
seven billion people, more and more of which want a cheap, high protein diet.
Mom and pop 160 acre farms are not profitable ventures, no matter how much
government money gets thrown at them. Yes, you've found small farmers willing to
complain. That's like finding a tea partier willing to scream themselves
apoplectic over taxes. Pretty easy. Sorry, but a farm today is a thousand sow
farrow to finish operation. Ten thousand head in a feedlot. Four hundred
thousand laying hens. The sooner we actually do recognise what it takes to
provide us with our diet the better. It's not a lifestyle, or a right to gripe.
It's an industry. And look up what a hutterite is.
Farmers don't get rich, and often their earnings are below what minimum wage
would mandate. Forget about working union hours or overtime.Crop
farming depends on tillable land and good water supplies, so it is not as easy
as telling them to just move eslewhere so the next ripple of ubrban/suburban
sprawl can occupy their current farms. They cannot just plant corn or wheat or
veggies on the other side of the Stansbury mountains, although you could build
houses on such terrain.As farmers get displaced, food costs rise for
everyone. As farming methods are restricted by environuts or government
regulation, costs rise or production drops making food mre expensive, and urban
sprawl makes it necessary to haul food further, not the "eat local"
claptrap the left loves so much.Don't even think of what will happen
if the U.S. farms get hit by weather, disease or insect disasters. One or two
years of that could result in famine for much of the world, who depend on the
American farmer.I just want to thank farmers for feeding me and my
family such wonderful food (including yummy meats!) all these years for such low
Certainly other areas have faced the threat of development to their farms. In
some cases (like many big urban cities) development has won, farming has lost. I
don't want to be like New York or even parts of Orem.There have been
many studies about the need for open space mixed in with our developed areas.
Sometimes parks have been created, it other cases places like golf courses have
helped.Money is often the reason for a farm being given over for
development. Taxes and land values go up and farming just doesn't brin in
enough, so it is sold and developed.Some areas have tried to use
innovative techniques like conservation easments that permit the farmer to stay
and raise crops while at the same time the farm contributes to the open space
recommended areas. This is truely an investment for the future, for our kids
and grandkids.Since the article is about development being the
biggest threat to the farmers, maybe we should check out some ways to obtain a
conservation easement on these properties and accomplish two things at the same
time.Think about it ... how can we do that?