Interesting points David though where I disagree with you is on the discussion
on criteria of belonging in a superconference. Utah has proven their worth on
the field so I don't have any heartburn over that if they are to end up in one.
I hope the same holds for Boise and TCU. That being said, most of
these decisions are made based upon economic factors. BYU has a larger fan base
then twenty-seven of the schools currently in AQ conferences according to the
New York Times. This includes Utah. So, while I agree that BYU
should pick it up on the field the fan base is on par with what one sees in AQ
leagues / proposed superconferences hence I will be more surprised if they
didn't end up in one even if the results of this season so far continue for the
anti BCS: a lot of talk coming from a guy whose team just took a a 44 point
smackdown from that "cupcake team." I Utah a third tier team, how do
you figure BYU is a first tier? I'd say they need to get 44 points better just
to join whatever tier Utah's in. I don't even dispute that BYU should be there
as well but, your reasoning (if that's what you call it) is just a little bit
flawed. How many unbeaten seasons have the cougars had in history and how many
since 1984. I'm not a BYU hater. It just amazes me that after 2 unbeaten seasons
in the last 8, 2 BCS bowl wins that you still think BYU is the premier team in
Utah. There's no question that BYU was a dominant team in the state for 20 years
or so but, Army used to win national titles on a regular basis back in the day
as well. BYU might even be great again considering their facilities and
financial backing but, not with a coach more concerned in recruiting for the
church instead of his team. LaVell had it right.
Dear BraveSirRobin, this article was not written by BYU, nor was it approved by
BYU, so why would you think this article is supported by BYU to get into an AQ
conference. This is one writers opinion and has nothing to do with
BYU administration or BYU Athletic Department. Nothing in this
article claims BYU is advocating or pushing to get into an AQ Conference.
Please do not read between the lines what is not between the lines.
Let's do what the NFL and AFL did for the Superbowl. Take the AQ Conferences,
plus Notre Dame and the NONAQ Conferences, which would Include BYU, Navy and
Army. Have each group crown their champion in a championship game and the two
champions meet the following week. The winner is crowned the True National
Does BYU belong in a Super Conference?The short answer is no.The slightly longer answer is that BYU should de-emphasize or disband
its sports programs and concentrate on the mission of the University.
fan32: Anyone who can see reality should be able to see that any team that just
announces and goes independent is going to have a time period where getting
their schedule worked out to the level they want it to be will take time. For
you to slam/criticise BYU for their schedule in the first yr is ridiculous. Your
comments show your lack of reality.
fan32"What color is your kool(ade)?" Do you mean
Kool-Aid?Apparently it is Blue. A beautiful color!I
would guess that yours in not blue - or red, for that matter. By
the way, what is "your" reality? Most likely SportsFan (nor anyone
else) wants to wake up to "that reality."
What color is your koolaid?I attended every single BYU home game in
football and basketball last season, as well as the away football games at Utah
State and Utah.I'll be at every BYU home football and basketball
game this season.The schedules for both football and basketball will
improve dramatically in future seasons. True BYU fans, will have a
little patience.There's nothing Holmoe or anyone else at BYU can do
to stop the Big 12 from imploding if Oklahoma decides to leave the
conference.If BYU had stayed in the MWC, BYU wouldn't have played
Ole Miss, Texas wouldn't have signed a home-and-home with BYU, BYU wouldn't be
playing TCU in Dallas Cowboys Stadium this year, and the BYU-Utah game would be
on the MTN.From the completely negative tone of some posts, however,
I suspect some "BYU" bloggers are really just Utah trolls who are
trying to stir the pot.
Sports fanWhat color is your kool ade. Wake up to reality
fan32Give it a break BYU-hater. You've posted the same drivel about
a dozen times.
I just look at BYU's poor home schedules and that is what will eventually bring
BYU to sports mediocrity. If BYU could get into the big 12 if it holds together,
can you imagine the fan excitement. Texas, Oklahoma,Kansas etc now coming to
Provo. LES and Marriot center are too big for the home schedules in football and
especially basketball. The Marriot center will be half full even this year when
the ticket buying public realizes what a pathetic home schedule Holmoe has put
together. If the superconferences really happen, BYU will get left out and
independence will leave LES and the Marriot center half full. What then? Will
BYU go the way of Ricks. It is a very possible scenario. I know Holmoe isn't,
but he should be camped out at big 12 headquarters trying to hold it together
and promoting an invite for the cougars. I will start bleeding red if I am
forced to, but may not have any choice. This is not the time for Holmoe to be
out on the golf coarse but I have to think he's teeing up right now.
It must be rivalry week... I think it's so funny that BYU fans feel like their
only recourse is to attack Utah and say that they would never compete in the PAC
and never make a bowl game. And Utah fans keep harping on the BCS invitation
rules and how lowly BYU is. In reality Utah is right in the
competition for the PAC 12 south in their first year, and if BYU went undefeated
it is HIGHLY unlikely they would get passed over. On the other side of the coin
Utah has been quite a bit more successful than BYU in recent years and there's
no reason to think BYU would compete any better in the PAC than Utah would. And
there's no way Utah would be able to fly as an independent or pick up the ESPN
contract that BYU did. For crying out loud people! Can't we all
just get along?!
JazzsmackIf the PAC 12 had wanted a legacy program, a perennial Top
25 team with a national fanbase, that would have provided real competition in
wide range of sports year after year after year, they would have invited BYU.Instead, the PAC 12 wanted a couple of cupcakes to act as cannon fodder
for the big boys of the conference to pad their records, so they invited Utah
@JazzsmackIf Pac-12 wants BYU, they would have asked already
--instead of CO.But BYU is not wanted.
JazzsmackIf Oklahoma joins the PAC, so will Oklahoma StateIf Texas joins the PAC, so will Texas TechThe Oklahoma and Texas
schools are joined at the hip.
It's doubtful the mainstream media will report on the Atlantic Monthly article;
it's too long and complicated for a world that deals mostly in soundbites.The implications of the lawsuits winding their way through the courts,
however, could be huge, particularly the Agnew case which could blow the lid off
NCAA mandated scholarship limits.
When you create super conferneces, you have ask whcihc teams make the most sense
geographically, and market wise.A super PAC condfernce, whene you
add OK, OK st and texas makes a league of 15 teams,You must add a
fourth team.Geographically and market wise, BYU makes the most
sense,Lets forget the nonsense of academics, these are athletics
conferences first and foremost.Other teams that make sense for the
fourth team: Boise St., TCU, or you would have to raid the BIG 12 for
another team, none them of make sense geographically or market
wise.Long shots for the fourth team: Hawaii, san diego st., new
mexico, unlv, nevada.
TrueBlueThat's a bombshell of an article. It makes the Yahoo article
about Miami superficial by comparison.
Bleed Crimson You're wasting your time with your boring recitation
of BCS qualifying rules -- Utah has no chance of playing in a BCS game this
season, and the landscape of college football is so fluid that everything could
be changed by next season.If superconferences emerge, the Utes could
easily find themselves on the inside looking out, but they could also find
themselves at the bottom looking up at an impenetrable glass ceiling.
Bleed Crimson The Worldwide Leader in Sports Pecking OrderTop Tier - BYU - 10 games on ESPNBottom Tier - Utah - 1 game on ESPN
(courtesy of BYU)With USC, Texas and Oklahoma in the PAC 16, the
Utes will never play in a BCS bowl as a member of an AQ conference. Utah had a
better chance of playing in a BCS as a member of the MWC.With a
crippled USC, 2011 may be Utah's ONLY chance to win their division, and even if
they backdoored their way into the CCG, the Utes have no chance of beating
Stanford or Oregon in the PAC 12 championship game.
Just when you think off-the-field college football issues couldn't get anymore
complicated, the Atlantic Monthly publishes an article suggesting implications
for college athletics that could make conference realignment seem like a tiny
speed bump by comparison -- "The Shame of College Sports" October
2011tidbits: Jim Delany, the commissioner of the Big Ten, has
estimated that a national playoff system could produce three or four times as
much money as the existing bowl system does... If a significant band of football
schools were to demonstrate that they could orchestrate a true national playoff,
without the NCAAs assistance, the association would be terrified... if the big
sports colleges dont need the NCAA to administer a national playoff in football,
then they dont need it to do so in basketball... In which case, they could cut
out the middleman in March Madness and run the tournament themselves. Which
would deprive the NCAA of close to $1 billion a year, more than 95 percent of
its revenue. Thus the playoff dreamed of and hankered for by millions of
football fans haunts the NCAA... This danger helps explain why the NCAA steps
gingerly in enforcements against powerful colleges.
@ anti BCSThis is the College Football pecking order:1st
tier - BCS Conference Schools (includes Utah) and Notre Dame2nd tier -
Non-aq Conference Schools 3rd tier - Non-aq Independent Schools: Army,
Navy, BYU.The Rules for non-aq conference schools is to be
undefeated and ranked in the top 12 to get an automatic berth to the BCS. BYU's
current Independent status means they have to be undefeated and ranked in the
top 2 to get an automatic bid. BYU would have a better shot at the BCS staying
in the Mountain West.
SCUFIndividually1st tier - BSU - NC hopeful2nd
tier - BYU - ESPN regular3rd tier - Utah - ESPN no-show (except for their
game at BYU)
SoCalUtahFanThird tier in a top tier conference still means no bowl
game for Utah.Middle of the PAC mediocrity will quickly become
bottom of the PAC misery if Oklahoma and Texas join the PAC 16 -- but at least
the U will be making lots of $$$, including from you, who will be asked to pitch
in even more to help the Utes finish in the upper 3/4's of the conference.
1st tier: Pac-12, SEC, Big-10, Big-12 (current)2nd tier: ACC, Big-East,
MWC (current with TCU, BSU), ND3rd tier: Conf-USA, WAC (including BYU),
Navy, Army,4th tier: MAC, Sun Belt
I've maintained that I'm not that big on BCS conferences, they would make things
easier and alot of money would be made but like many have said on this site, not
everyone can be at the top of the league and I think the utes will find that out
sooner rather than later. Although many think super conferences are the future,
I'm not sure they will fly, legally superconferences will be challenged.
Staying independent for BYU is not a bad option, BYU will make plenty of money
and having control over your schedule has it's benifits. With time BYU will be
able to get the kind of schedule they like and put themselves on a good position
to be considered for BCS games and or a NC. Winning is the key.
Interesting Questions:Would the PAC X invite Oklahoma and Oklahoma
State if Texas wasn't part of the package?Would the PAC X invite
Texas if the Longhorns insisted on keeping their Longhorn Network?Would Arizona, Arizona State, and Colorado torpedo an invitation to Oklahoma
and Texas, if Arizona, ASU, Colorado, and Utah were almost certain to end up in
a PAC X East division with the Oklahoma and Texas schools?There are
still alot of variables in play here that make a PAC 16 far from a done deal.
I really don't care if "super" conferences are formed or not. But if
they are I do not think they will last. All top feeders need bottom
feeders. With a higher number of smaller conferences more teams get to be top
feeders. If all of the current top feeders band together to form a smaller
number of conferences some of the teams currently on top will no longer be on
top. They can't be as the math simply won't allow it.Now I know
there have been utah fans on here for the lat year saying they would rather be a
bottom feeder, or maybe a mid tier team, in a better conference than a top team
in a "lesser" conference and I think most of them truly believe that.
For now.But when the reality of mediocrity sets in, and not just for
them but the majority of "used to be's" I think that will change.
Fanbases long accustomed to 9-19 win seasons will not be saitisfied with
continual 4-5-6-7 win seasons. They will stop attending. It will happen.Then things will change again.
@ Mormon Ute,I don't like the idea of superconferences, either. But,
Texas A&M and the Oklahomas are ensuring that it'll happen.BYU
would certainly accept an invitation to a superconference, unless they got
concrete assurances that independent scheduling of BCS teams during October and
November wouldn't be an issue. (Not sure if that's possible.)Then,
independence for BYU is best. Same for Notre Dame. Not so much for Texas.
The interesting thing about SOS (how it's currently determined by most computer
polls used by the BCS), is that it's nearly MORE important who your opponents
played than your opponent's own record.In other words, too much
weight is given to being in a BCS conference than simply what the record was of
the team you played.Sure, some credit SHOULD be given for having a
tough schedule so that teams that play you get credit for playing a team from a
tough conference. But, how it's currently figured isn't correct, or fair.THEREFORE, independent teams (like BYU) could easily gain decent SOS
scores by filling their schedule with the lower half of teams from BCS
conferences.For example, BYU with its help from ESPN, could easily
get plenty of BCS teams on its yearly schedule because those bottom-feeders
would not be getting as much air time as the top-feeders. They'd jump at the
chance to get on the air NATIONALLY.That's why I don't see BYU
having trouble getting a decent SOS as an independent should top-tier BCS teams
shun playing them in October and November.
@ royalblue,You're right on the money! That's why Scott won't let
the Pac-12 slip on this opportunity to grow to 16 again.If he does,
then the Pac is stuck at 14, while the rest are free to get to 16. And that
would mean 2 more BCS schools get demoted!Fun times ahead.
If super conferences happen, BYU should be in and would be crazy not to want it.
With that said, I don't like the super conferences. Traditional rivalries are
already being torn apart and I only see that getting worse. Super conferences
makes college sports look too much like the pros and takes the student out of
For Utah fans who think having Oklahoma and Texas in the PAC 12 would be good
for Utah, I'd love to hear WHY.Certainly, it would strengthen the
conference, probably making the PAC 16 close to as strong as the SEC, but how
would that help Utah?There's no guarantee that the PAC 16 would
generate any more revenue on a per team basis, and even it did, there's no
question Utah's chances of being competitive would take a severe hit.As far as bowls go. Even if they relaxed the rules to allow a 5-7 team to play
in a bowl, how many fans would care about attending a bowl game to watch two 5-7
teams go at each other? And without the relaxed rules, yearly trips to a bowl
would become a thing of the past for Utah.If Utah fans were smart,
they'd be lobbying Dr. Hill to do everything he could to prevent the PAC 12 from
expanding to the PAC 16.
It would be interesting to see what the PAC would do if Oklahoma and Oklahoma
State joined the PAC, Texas and Texas Tech joined the ACC, Kansas and Kansas
State joined the Big East, and Missouri joined the Big Ten or SEC.Who would the PAC 14 invite to become the PAC 16 and from a football and
marketing perspective, how could they possibly justify inviting anybody besides
BYU and Boise State?San Jose State, Fresno State, San Diego State,
UNLV, Nevada, and Hawaii aren't exactly known for their high academic standards,
and none of them comes close in long-term football achievement.
Everyone (except Utah fans) agrees that BYU deserves to be in the field of 64.
Doesn't matter, though. They're a victim of bigotry and geography. One excludes
them from the PAC, the other excludes them from all the eastern conferences.The only hope is that the Big 12 survives.
One possibility is for the "top" mid-major football schools, plus some
or all of the demoted BCS schools, to form a 5th 16-team superconference and
DARE the other four to exclude them from the party.The BCS knew that
if the MWC had remained as it were, it would have either been added as an AQ
conference, or replaced the Big East. They didn't want that, so getting Utah and
TCU out of that conference, with BYU going Indy, helped the BCS to retain its
status quo.Now, with superconferences happening, and the demise of
the Big XII, they're licking their chops that they'll be able to exclude the
mid-majors even more.Baylor's litigation threats to Big XII evacuees
will pale in comparison to what'll happen if the BCS continues to try to exclude
@ truth machine....sorry man but what you're saying about the utes would
actually happen to byu and bsu as well. however...give the utes byu and bsu
about 3 to 5 years in these conferences to recruit and have access to the same
type of athletes the big boys have...then we could compete. but then
again...look at the bottom feeders in the big 12, pac 10.2 and the sec....I
don't see them getting better so maybe we're just fooling ourselves. :)
The geography of four 16-team superconferences, with the "Pac-16" NOT
including BYU (for obvious reasons), leaves little chance of BYU getting into a
superconference where it's travel is mimimized.Four 16-team
superconferences by default excludes the Big XII, and I doubt the Big Ten (16)
would offer BYU.Therefore, I believe independence is the future for
BYU. And, no, they won't be excluded from BCS bowls via poor SOS because of not
being able to play BCS teams in October and November. That'll not fly legally,
so won't happen.I also believe Notre Dame won't relinquish its
independence. Notre Dame has it too good TV-wise to join any conference. And,
Army and Navy won't loose their independence in favor of dropping current BCS
schools of their status.Who knows whether Texas ends up going Indy
because of its love for its TLN.Sad days are ahead for most of
college football, it seems. Especially mid-majors. The three-tier college
football landscape talked about could happen.Or, litigation could
mess everything up even worse, or better. Who knows?
Brave Sir Robin Who said anything about BYU being
"excited" to join a superconference?Superconferences are
the BCS on steroids -- an absolutely stupid idea, driven entirely by greed.
Sir Robin likes sliced bread...
Greed and power struggles are destroying college sports. 16-team
superconferences will eliminate non-conference games and guarantee that half the
teams in each of those conferences will finish with losing records every year;
which means no bowl games on a regular basis for teams like Utah, which would
rarily finish in the upper half of a PAC 16.Utah, with a PAC 12
Power Ranking of 7th, would be ranked 11th if the Oklahoma and Texas schools
were in the conference today.PAC 161st tier - USC, Oklahoma,
Texas2nd tier - Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Stanford, Oregon3rd tier
- Utah, Arizona State, Arizona, Washington, Oregon State, California4th
tier - Washington State, ColoradoUtah fans are only fooling
themselves if they think that Utah would be competitive in a 16-team conference
with USC, Oklahoma and Texas.Once in awhile, maybe.On a
regular basis, not a chance.
Wait, I thought independence was the greatest thing since sliced bread? Why
would BYU be all excited about joining a superconference is independence is the
way to go?
Everyone that matters predicts that BYU, a program that ranks much higher than
many BCS teams since the BCS was formed to keep BYU and similar teams out, is
not only in the top 64 but in the top half of the 64.I will be sad
to see the current conferences go away if that is really what happens. I think
if everyone took a step back for a year, they would realize that this is not the
best thing for college football. 12 team conferences would allow a conf.
championship game and be able to send a champ to an 8 or 16 team playoff. Throw
in the rest of the highest ranked teams to complete the field and you would have
an excellent end to the season. The teams left, who have a .500 or above record
can still have bowl games for their fans and the nation gets a playoff.
"The 10 most obvious teams to include are Notre Dame, BYU, Oklahoma,
Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Clemson, Florida State and
Virginia Tech."Except by whiney, jealous, BYU-hating little
brothers, this list isn't even debatable.
I think super conferences are a bad idea -- just like the current BCS system is
a bad idea. They are designed to leave half of the FBS teams out in the cold.
How can you crown a true champion when you already leave out half the